The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1644 Old 03-07-2011, 03:14 AM
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pb_maxxx: Thanks figured I'd be OK.

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post #182 of 1644 Old 03-07-2011, 08:31 AM
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Hello all,

If anyone has a SF panel that is sprayed they can send me (either on loaner or perm), I'll pay shipping. Thought I had a line on one but fell through. PM me, thanks.
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post #183 of 1644 Old 03-09-2011, 12:16 PM
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What is a sock filter and where can I buy one?
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post #184 of 1644 Old 03-10-2011, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poblack View Post

What is a sock filter and where can I buy one?

That refers to a 1 Gallon Nylon Filter that slips across the top of a container and you pour your paint through it.

Home Depots usually carry such in 2-Packs, as does Lowes.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #185 of 1644 Old 03-10-2011, 07:05 AM
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First time poster, but I've been reading about the SF v2 for quite a while and I'm about ready to pull the trigger. If my reading is correct, here is what I understand:

More lumens= you can go darker (> than 2-3 oz. of colorant mixture to base),
Your image brightness (FL level) for a given distance also determines how dark you can go,
Less contrast ratio= you want to go darker to bring out the blacks.

Am I correct in these assumtions? My room I'm finishing is 18x12 and will be light controlled. The plan is to have an 84" diagonal screen. My throw distance will be about 10-11 feet. The projector I'm looking at is the Epson EX5200, which shows an FL of 54 at 11 feet, 2600 lumens and a contrast ratio of 2000:1. I know this isn't the best projector out there, but it's a start for me due to budget issues. Sam's club as it for $539 and my wife is ok with that. I know I should just save until I can afford something else (looking at the 8350). Reality is though this is what I'm looking at and this will get my man cave up and running.

The screen I'm looking at building is a wood frame with black out material stretched with a black velvet border. I'm a very good wood worker, so building it well won't be any issue. The main question I have is what level of SF should I look at spraying? My guess from what I've been reading is 3.0 or better. If the experts on here could give a brother just a little guidance, I'd appreciate it.
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post #186 of 1644 Old 03-10-2011, 08:09 AM
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trog04;


If my reading is correct, here is what I understand:

More lumens= you can go darker (> than 2-3 oz. of colorant mixture to base),
Your image brightness (FL level) for a given distance also determines how dark you can go,


yes for the most part... lumens/fL's is king when it comes to any darker silvers/greys. but i recommend pj's with more lumens AND higher contrast. more lumens by itself is just more 'noise' in terms of light leakage and added ambient light... and a screen like silver fire is only gonna pick up that 'noise' and lack of uniformity of lesser pj's. it's sorta like buying some martin logan's and expecting your source music is gonna sound better with a Sony receiver... when actually, it might very well sound worse. but i feel ya on the man cave... wife approval is a good thing... and count your blessings, the 5200 is good start.)

less contrast ratio= you want to go darker to bring out the blacks.

yes and no. going darker doesn't necessarily mean having to lose contrast as much as it means shifting the contrast to lower register. sorta like playing a song in middle C instead of high C. the goal is deepen perceived black levels while maintaining white levels and therefore increase perceived contrast over a unity gain white screen. obviously, for many grey screens... contrast is most certainly lost.

84" black out cloth stretch screen over wood...

very much doable. have you seen LightningGuy's(sp?) post on his 180" black out stretch screen using SF V2 2.0? so if you've been reading, you'll know to use the rubbery side, roll on 2 heavy coats of upw. dry. sand. then roll on a 3rd coat. followed by a final light sanding and inspection to make sure the screen smooth and texture free of fabric (textile) texture.

the 5200 is more of presentation projector and given that... i'm inclined to say your properly calibrated fL's for movie watching will like be more along the lines of 35-40fL's.

so with that, and this being a man cave... i'll assume you want to drink a beer with the buddies and not kiss them in the dark... you have the a whole lot at your disposal (screen selection)

i personally lean a little towards better black levels but i also want my brilliant whites... so i'm going to suggest something along the lines of SF V2 2.5
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post #187 of 1644 Old 03-11-2011, 04:38 AM
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Ok, so plans changed a little. Instead of the EX 5200, I just ordered an Epson Powerlite Pro 800. Came in cheaper and looks to be a better projector anyway. Am I still looking at V2-2.5 or should I go a little lighter, 2.0 maybe? And pb, I'm a bit like you. I like the deep blacks, but don't want to sacrifice the whites too much.
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post #188 of 1644 Old 03-11-2011, 11:30 AM
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trog04;

well that's a better start. you trade in brightness and picture 'noise' for resolution, and contrast. ever notice why quality audio doesn't have a 'loudness' button? for lower level presentation pj's... that's really all the extra high lumens are for... sure it's brighter, just not better.

the pro 800 is a good one... as far as 720p's go... 1600 lumens optimized more for movie watching (not presentations) and 5000:1 contrast ratio.

if you mount this at say... 11ft... and with a 1.2 gain screen... you'd in the ballpark of 30fL's. while you could go as dark as a SF V2 3.0 screen... i like to be a bit conservative... so yes i think you've nailed it when mentioned going with a SF V2 2.0 screen.

----------

busy day... busy wknd... i've got a ton of painting to do... from 3D samples to full screens.
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post #189 of 1644 Old 03-15-2011, 10:00 PM
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MississippiMan, pb_maxxx,

Can one of you guys help. I have attempted to do a silver fire V3 3.0 screen. I felt I did a good job mixing all the components with the right amount but I'm not 100% sure I'm getting the results I thought I would be getting. To be honest, I'm not sure what I was expecting... perhaps something with more of a metallic luster to really make the picture "pop". Instead, I got more of a satin like finish. When I first started spraying the color looked like the same color of the Statue of Liberty but as I added coats it became more silver. Please take a look at my photos and tell me if something looks wrong. Sorry for the bad pic. My camera is a piece of crap.





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post #190 of 1644 Old 03-15-2011, 11:05 PM
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poblack;

you sure are right about the camera!? but considering that you took that with a flash i'd say you doing quite alright.

as for more a metallic luster... ...leave that for the hotspotting 3 grand firehawk. and the pic you'll from this picture really IS gonna pop. now about that finish sheen...i'd prefer it to be as flat to eggshell as possible.

how does the finish feel to you? is it smooth, or is it like a very fine sandpaper?

and man, i gotta say... i LOVE that stage! you know how to build 'em!
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post #191 of 1644 Old 03-16-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

poblack;

you sure are right about the camera!? but considering that you took that with a flash i'd say you doing quite alright.

as for more a metallic luster... ...leave that for the hotspotting 3 grand firehawk. and the pic you'll from this picture really IS gonna pop. now about that finish sheen...i'd prefer it to be as flat to eggshell as possible.

how does the finish feel to you? is it smooth, or is it like a very fine sandpaper?

and man, i gotta say... i LOVE that stage! you know how to build 'em!

Thanks for your reply! I feel much better now.

The finish feels smooth. When I project, the image looks good and clear. There were some areas that were darker however. I said I would let the wall dry completely and check again to see if the spots are still there. If they are, do I need to do another coat? I used up all my batch already.

And thanks for your comment on the stage. I spent a lot of time building it.
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post #192 of 1644 Old 03-16-2011, 08:01 AM
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check to make sure the darker areas are not 'indentions' in the drywall or substrate... a high gain screen mix such as this recognizes and brings out even the smallest of such hardly noticable imperfections.

if that is not the case, then you may be a coat shy of what you needed...

in which case, how much 'colorant' do you have left...
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post #193 of 1644 Old 03-16-2011, 07:21 PM
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Again, please excuse the bad pictures.

Here are some screenshots


On this one, notice the bright circular type spots.





Those spots are not due to indentations. I think it's due to uneven coverage. I try to spray evenly but it's hard to see the spray pattern lines.

Like I said, I'm all out of paint. If I just want to make half a batch, do I just divide the amounts in half?
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post #194 of 1644 Old 03-16-2011, 07:30 PM
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yes that's really strange... and like you i'm convinced that's it's likely uneven coverage with the darker areas being areas that don't have as much paint.

absolutely make yourself a half batch... using 1.5oz of colorant consider this...

one full coat.
followed by 2 heavy dusters.
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post #195 of 1644 Old 03-17-2011, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Such areas can be the result of subtle differences between differently sanded areas and/or primed areas over such areas that are sanded and areas that are not.

Rolling on primer then spraying can also produce such areas, because uneven rolled areas that are not apparent before spraying can pop into existence once the higher contrast paint is applied. The thinness of the sprayed application and the translucency of the paint itself doesn't allow for effective coverage of such areas with the normal 2 dusters and 3 regular coats.

If so, it takes at least another full round of spraying to effectively cover such areas with the translucent, thinly applied SF v.2, I strongly suggest you make another full batch...not a partial, and simply spray again as if starting over. That would be a much more safer and certain route to take. If you buy additional components to make a 1/2 batch...you'll be able to make a full batch just as easily.

Also, reduce the amount of "Drop" between horizontal Rows to 25% to assure a truly blended coverage. Don't dawdle though...keep moving...run off each edge of the screen, drop slightly then get going back across.

Apply at least 3 normal coats in such a manner, then the 2 Dusters with the same 75% overlap.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #196 of 1644 Old 03-17-2011, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Such areas can be the result of subtle differences between differently sanded areas and/or primed areas over such areas that are sanded and areas that are not.

Rolling on primer then spraying can also produce such areas, because uneven rolled areas that are not apparent before spraying can pop into existence once the higher contrast paint is applied. The thinness of the sprayed application and the translucency of the paint itself doesn't allow for effective coverage of such areas with the normal 2 dusters and 3 regular coats.

If so, it takes at least another full round of spraying to effectively cover such areas with the translucent, thinly applied SF v.2, I strongly suggest you make another full batch...not a partial, and simply spray again as if starting over. That would be a much more safer and certain route to take. If you buy additional components to make a 1/2 batch...you'll be able to make a full batch just as easily.

Also, reduce the amount of "Drop" between horizontal Rows to 25% to assure a truly blended coverage. Don't dawdle though...keep moving...run off each edge of the screen, drop slightly then get going back across.

Apply at least 3 normal coats in such a manner, then the 2 Dusters with the same 75% overlap.

Thanks. But would adding another full batch make my screen too dark?

The primer was sprayed on. Not rolled. When I was done priming, the entire wall looked evenly coated to my unexperienced eye.
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post #197 of 1644 Old 03-17-2011, 08:31 AM
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mm was saying is to go ahead and make a full batch so that you don't run out half way through spraying a coat...

the 2nd thing is... the dark spots/areas are where is not enough paint... so no, your screen will not be too dark. if for some reason you are afraid of such, make this next batch SF 2.75 V2 instead of 3.0

finally, i think you should do a quick 'brush sand' with a 'fine' grit 3M sanding sponge before starting your second round of painting this beautiful stage/screen of yours.
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post #198 of 1644 Old 03-17-2011, 11:46 AM
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Thanks guys. I'll report back after this weekend.
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post #199 of 1644 Old 03-27-2011, 03:57 PM
 
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Hey I was wondering if silver fire high gain have that plasma look that everyone is talking about ?
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post #200 of 1644 Old 03-28-2011, 07:44 AM
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Ok, so I found to SF v2 mix on the other thread, and I'm looking at the 2.0 mix as I stated above. Just for clarification, I need to mix in 1.5oz of the Liquitex gold in the base, and add 2 oz of the color components? It looks as though if you decide to go darker, you add .5oz of gold to the base, and 1oz of color components per level (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc...). Am I correct in my understanding? This is for the Epson Pro cinema 800, with light controlled room. I have some ambient indirect lighting with wall sconces. They're on a dimmer so it can be controlled.
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post #201 of 1644 Old 03-28-2011, 09:55 AM
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Showtimes;
yes it absolutely will have that plasma visual feel.


Trog04,
yes everything you stated was correct... you're ready to go forward as planned.
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post #202 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 12:02 AM
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What is a good hard substrate large enough to do a 125" diagonal 16:9 screen with SF? My drywalling abilities are not exactly up to par.
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post #203 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 01:09 AM
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where are you located? depending on your location we may be able to suggest a plastic sheet distributor near you that you can purchase a 5' x 10' sheet of sintra/komatex.
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post #204 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
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where are you located? depending on your location we may be able to suggest a plastic sheet distributor near you that you can purchase a 5' x 10' sheet of sintra/komatex.

Thanks! I'm in Tulsa, OK. Will a 5' x 10' be large enough for a 125"? Won't it be about an inch short vertically, not including a border?
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post #205 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhereToStart View Post

Thanks! I'm in Tulsa, OK. Will a 5' x 10' be large enough for a 125"? Won't it be about an inch short vertically, not including a border?

The largest you can manage @ 16:9 with a 120" x 60" sheet of Sintra is 106" x 60....which gets you 122" diagonal.

Will you miss those missing 3" diagonal? I don't think so.


I did not locate either Piedmont or Laird Plastics in Tulsa. You best bet would be checking a "Sign Shop" to see if they have any inventory, or doing a search in a Local Engine for "Plastic Sheeting Distributor".

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post #206 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 06:30 AM
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contact Tulsa Plastics Company... http://www.tulsaplastics.com

and ask for Komatex... which is another brand name for Sintra.

more info:

6112 E. 32nd Place
Tulsa, OK 74135

Phone (918) 664-0931
Toll Free (888) 273-5303
Fax (918) 622-2943
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post #207 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

contact Tulsa Plastics Company... http://www.tulsaplastics.com

and ask for Komatex... which is another brand name for Sintra.

more info:

6112 E. 32nd Place
Tulsa, OK 74135

Phone (918) 664-0931
Toll Free (888) 273-5303
Fax (918) 622-2943

Thanks!
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post #208 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The largest you can manage @ 16:9 with a 120" x 60" sheet of Sintra is 106" x 60....which gets you 122" diagonal.

Will you miss those missing 3" diagonal? I don't think so.


I did not locate either Piedmont or Laird Plastics in Tulsa. You best bet would be checking a "Sign Shop" to see if they have any inventory, or doing a search in a Local Engine for "Plastic Sheeting Distributor".

I doubt I would miss them . Thanks!
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post #209 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 09:51 AM
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If I've got a throw distance of about 13', and the room is completely light controlled with an 8700UB, should I go with a V2 2.5?
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post #210 of 1644 Old 03-30-2011, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If I've got a throw distance of about 13', and the room is completely light controlled with an 8700UB, should I go with a V2 2.5?

Only if you wanted the SF finish to do more of the Contrast Boosting than you would otherwise be dependent upon with the Auto Iris Feature.

On the 8700, it's (AI) working a bit smoother (...if not really quieter...) and more effectively than the 8350. Personally, I'd still say 2.0 is your ticket.

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