The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 73 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2161 of 2249 Old 06-18-2015, 07:49 PM
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Thanks!
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post #2162 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
Thanks...like I said, I absolutely love it. I couldn't ask for better performance. I've seen a few others and mine seriously blows them away...granted they were using PJ's that were a generation behind mine, but still. It wasn't really even comparable.


Sprayer = $57
Paint = ~$110
Squirrel Mixer = $15
Sintra = $75 (i got a good deal...usually around $140?)
Nylon Strainers = ~$5
Frame Wood = ~$20

Edit: After reading your thread and seeing your room is pretty much always dark, I would definitely recommend adding additional UPW. MM can probably help you further with a lot more knowledge, but you won't need as much light rejecting in that environment. I'm assuming he'd recommend SF v2.5 1.0 or 2.0 + additional UPW. My eyes were fairly sensitive to the 'grain' or 'sparklies'...so adding UPW was extremely helpful for me.
It the Sintra PVC Board bendable to create a curve screen?
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post #2163 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
It the Sintra PVC Board bendable to create a curve screen?
Yes.
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post #2164 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 08:28 AM
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Hello... I'm a brand new AVS-Forum member. My name is Alexander and I'm from Germany

First of all I should like to pay tribute to all of you DIY genius. You do a great job and the pictures I have seen, I find breathtaking.

I'm completely new in the world of DIY and projectors. Till now I owned a 55" screen but it is too small now. Furthermore I'm going to buy an apartment and then I will start to install my home cinema system. My favourite projector I want to buy is the JVC X500. I know... It's no kind of "Light-cannon" but it should only illuminate a 100-110" screen.

I surfed through the WWW and found many interesting screens like Draper React 3.0, DNP Supernova, SI Black Diamond, Stewart and so on... unfortunately I got sick, when I heard the prices (>2000€)

Then I saw a thread about the "Black widow" in one of our german forums... Normally we are very experienced in technic, but the DIY section is quite poor :/ from that thread I was forwarded to this forum and I read quite a few threads till now.

But "The Official Silver Fire V.2" Thread opened my eyes... it seems to be possible to build a screen by myself that can compete with a Black Diamond 1.4 and costs 1/10th


What do you guys think! What kind of mixture should I choose in combination with the X500? The screen should produce a very good image and minor stray light in a fully darked room with bright furniture, walls, ... and also be capable to watch sports or some kind of TV shows with ambient light. Is the Silver Fire Mixture considered good for my purpose?

Here you can see my room:


Looking forward for some advises or anything else

Now
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post #2165 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 08:37 AM
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Sorry, I forgot to attach the pictures!

Thank you in advance

Alex
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post #2166 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
Yes.
Where did you buy your Sintra from?
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post #2167 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Where did you buy your Sintra from?
Why do you want a curved screen? Unless your using a Anamorphic Lens that produces a "Pin Cushion" Image (...flares out at the ends...), any curvature on the screen will created a "less than optimally focused" image area at each end of the screen.

Everyone seems to want / like a Curved Screen, either because they want the screen to resemble the local Cineplex, or they want a huge version of the newer LCD TVs. But a Curved Front projection screen is curved for a purpose...a specific reason...none of which are cosmetic oriented.

Not to say you cannot aspire to have one, even sans a Anamorphic Lens. But you need to be aware of the limitations and caveats.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #2168 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacx View Post
Sorry, I forgot to attach the pictures!

Thank you in advance

Alex
Silver Fire would be very advantageous in your situation.

Especially if your able to mount the X500 within 5" short of it's closest Throw Distance for a 100" ( 10'-7") to 110" screen. ( 11'-7")

Smaller Screen + Shorter Throw = more Lumen = more Foot Lambert + Silver Fire = wow

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #2169 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Why do you want a curved screen? Unless your using a Anamorphic Lens that produces a "Pin Cushion" Image (...flares out at the ends...), any curvature on the screen will created a "less than optimally focused" image area at each end of the screen.

Everyone seems to want / like a Curved Screen, either because they want the screen to resemble the local Cineplex, or they want a huge version of the newer LCD TVs. But a Curved Front projection screen is curved for a purpose...a specific reason...none of which are cosmetic oriented.

Not to say you cannot aspire to have one, even sans a Anamorphic Lens. But you need to be aware of the limitations and caveats.
I saw this video on youtube and the was not using any Anamorphic Lens, I guess there goes my dream of curve screen.

So you i should go ahead and spray my Carl's flexiwhite with SilverFire?
Base on the brightness of my room,what will be the right conbination?

Thanks!
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post #2170 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Silver Fire would be very advantageous in your situation.

Especially if your able to mount the X500 within 5" short of it's closest Throw Distance for a 100" ( 10'-7") to 110" screen. ( 11'-7")

Smaller Screen + Shorter Throw = more Lumen = more Foot Lambert + Silver Fire = wow

Hi and thank you.

Shortest distance to mount x500 and get a 100" screen illuminated is 10". With that range the x500 produces 41ft/l. I think this should be enough, right?

What does 10'-7" mean? :-D
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post #2171 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacx View Post
Hi and thank you.

Shortest distance to mount x500 and get a 100" screen illuminated is 10". With that range the x500 produces 41ft/l. I think this should be enough, right?

What does 10'-7" mean? :-D
10' -7" =10 feet 7 inches

........and I'm seriously doubting you'd get a 100" diagonal screen using a 10" Throw.

You do not want to mount the PJ at the extreme close end of it's Throw Distance. Leave yourself some adjust-ability...you'll still have plenty of lumen output at 10' -7" (10 feet 7 inches) Over 40 fls on a 1.0 gain surface, and Silver Fire v2.5 2.0 will provide at minimum 1.2gain That would actually garner you 50 fl on normal Lamp...but after you calibrate the X500 and it's set on Low Lamp for the deepest Blacks, you will still be sporting over 23 -24 fls in 2D and a excellent 28 fls in 3D on Normal Lamp.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #2172 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
I sa I guess there goes my dream of curve screen.
Not necessarily. If you look at the Video again you can see the content that was cropped at each corner. Would that bother you? And if the far edges were not precisely in focus with the Center...would that ruin your experience compared to having a Curved screen...or not? You are the Boss...and obviously others have gone down that road before you (..and with the BenQ too...) and thought highly enough about their screens to post videos about them. The Gamer using his Screen for a Driving Simulation probably has less of any overriding concerns about exacting video quality while watching a DVD or Movie. So where in that scheme of things do you nestle into?


Quote:
So you i should go ahead and spray my Carl's flexiwhite with SilverFire?
Base on the brightness of my room,what will be the right combination?

Thanks!
Spraying SF onto the Flexi you have is an excellent re-purposing of the material. However you did not mention either Screen size or Throw distance, and both can factor into whatever recommendation I would make as far as the depth of shading of your Silver Fire v2.5 mix.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #2173 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Not necessarily. If you look at the Video again you can see the content that was cropped at each corner. Would that bother you? And if the far edges were not precisely in focus with the Center...would that ruin your experience compared to having a Curved screen...or not? You are the Boss...and obviously others have gone down that road before you (..and with the BenQ too...) and thought highly enough about their screens to post videos about them. The Gamer using his Screen for a Driving Simulation probably has less of any overriding concerns about exacting video quality while watching a DVD or Movie. So where in that scheme of things do you nestle into?


Spraying SF onto the Flexi you have is an excellent re-purposing of the material. However you did not mention either Screen size or Throw distance, and both can factor into whatever recommendation I would make as far as the depth of shading of your Silver Fire v2.5 mix.
Screen size is 115"
Throw distance is 10ft

This combination looks the cheapest plus the spray.
Please tell what you think

RS-MaxxMudd HGC v.2
(for high gain contrast bat caves ht's)

From Michael's and HomeDept
20 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
12 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
9 oz. Behr UPW flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
15 oz. distilled/tap water**

From Amazon
1000ml Electric HVLP Air Spray Gun Kit 600W Motor Paint Sprayer 1.0mm Nozzle DIY
Trimaco 11523 Regular Mesh Elastic Top Bag Paint Strainer, 2-Pack
TBC "MIGHTY-RED" Mixer: 5 Gallon Paint & Mud Mixer 3" X 16" Professional
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post #2174 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 02:09 PM
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Take a look into my Home Theater Build Film noir theater

To get better understanding on what i am try to archive.

Thanks!
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post #2175 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Screen size is 115"
Throw distance is 10ft

This combination looks the cheapest plus the spray.
Please tell what you think

RS-MaxxMudd HGC v.2
(for high gain contrast bat caves ht's)

The above is a simple enough mix, however it does use outdated components.

From Michael's and HomeDept
20 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601 (I doubt you can find this paint in any Michaels...it was discontinued at least 2 years ago.)
"Preferred" http://www.lowes.com/pd_417188-90-253611_0__

12 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver (Even this paint is becoming increasingly hard to find....but still available online.)
"Preferred" http://www.lowes.com/pd_417204-90-253534_0__?productId=3821485&Ntt=

9 oz. Behr UPW flat ( Behr UPW 1750 )

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish (The use of Rust-Oleum Matte Polurethane *Water based* is much preferred. http://www.lowes.com/pd_456846-90-274808_0__?productId=4760784&Ntt= Also often found @ Home Depot:

15 oz. distilled/tap water**

From Amazon
1000ml Electric HVLP Air Spray Gun Kit 600W Motor Paint Sprayer 1.0mm Nozzle DIY ( OK )
Trimaco 11523 Regular Mesh Elastic Top Bag Paint Strainer, 2-Pack ( OK )

TBC "MIGHTY-RED" Mixer: 5 Gallon Paint & Mud Mixer 3" X 16" Professional
( better http://www.homedepot.com/p/Workforce-1-Gallon-Helix-Paint-Mixer-HM1HD/202251542 )
You might want to up the UPW to 15 oz.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #2176 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 05:12 PM
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Ok.

PAINT
20 oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl
20 oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver
15 oz Behr UPW 1750 Flat
12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
15 oz. distilled/tap water

It this all the paint i need and are the measurement correct?

Thanks again!
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post #2177 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
10' -7" =10 feet 7 inches

........and I'm seriously doubting you'd get a 100" diagonal screen using a 10" Throw.

You do not want to mount the PJ at the extreme close end of it's Throw Distance. Leave yourself some adjust-ability...you'll still have plenty of lumen output at 10' -7" (10 feet 7 inches) Over 40 fls on a 1.0 gain surface, and Silver Fire v2.5 2.0 will provide at minimum 1.2gain That would actually garner you 50 fl on normal Lamp...but after you calibrate the X500 and it's set on Low Lamp for the deepest Blacks, you will still be sporting over 23 -24 fls in 2D and a excellent 28 fls in 3D on Normal Lamp.
That's true... 10" should mean 10 feet. Its the minimal throwing distance. I would prefer to mount it at about 13-14 feet so its slightly behind my couch.

Yes, I think a 1,2 - 1,4 gain could be perfect. Is the silver 2.5 "2" equal to 1,2 gain? What is 1,4 gain?

Are the incredients on the first page the updated/newest ones or are there already some more improvements?

Good night from Germany xD 2:00 AM now :-)
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post #2178 of 2249 Old 06-19-2015, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Ok.

PAINT
20 oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl
20 oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver
15 oz Behr UPW 1750 Flat
12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
15 oz. distilled/tap water

It this all the paint i need and are the measurement correct?

Thanks again!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No...use this Formula:

For your Mix I'm suggesting this:

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz.

NO COLORANT need be added in your instance.

This mix will give very adequate ambient light performance, greatly improve Black levels, and maintain enough gain for spectacular 3D with the 1070

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #2179 of 2249 Old 06-20-2015, 09:03 AM
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Hello Mississippiman, hello all

You already answered on one of my post in this thread and you can see my room Situation above.
Today I was at a home cinema studio to see the different projectors and screens. Combined with the JVC X500 I liked a screen with about 1,4 - 1,6 gain the most and I think it could fit the best in my room. What do you think?

What kind of mixture do I need for such a gain?

What does the number after "silver fire 2.5" mean? :-)

Thank you in advance.

Alex
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post #2180 of 2249 Old 06-20-2015, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacx View Post
Hello Mississippiman, hello all

You already answered on one of my post in this thread and you can see my room Situation above.
Today I was at a home cinema studio to see the different projectors and screens. Combined with the JVC X500 I liked a screen with about 1,4 - 1,6 gain the most and I think it could fit the best in my room. What do you think?

What kind of mixture do I need for such a gain?

What does the number after "silver fire 2.5" mean? :-)

Thank you in advance.

Alex
The numerical designation after v2.5 stands for the number of ounces of Black Flame Colorant added to the Silver Fire Reflective mix. N/C means "No Colorant"

A designation of 4.0 would mean 4 ounces...which would result in a darker Silver Grey mix than would a 2.0

As far as screens go, I don't know what you viewed Mfg / Model Screen, but I do know that most all such 1.4 to 1.6 gain screens carry with them caveats that many find unacceptable. Price notwithstanding.

Then again, for some they represent exactly what they want, and things like graininess, color shifts, and limited viewing cones don't seem to enter into their thinking as far as being things that they cannot live with to get such increased brightness.

Silver Fire v2.5 N/C ( w/No Colorant & no added UPW ) will be well within the 1.3 gain range. By bumping up the White Pearl and UPW by a total of 8 oz Pearl and 6 oz UPW, you can get to 1.4 gain.

Beyond that, because of the use of Mica-based Metallic flakes, the quantities cannot be increased...either Silver or Pearl, without there being a too obvious increase in perceived Graininess. Those increases are usually only made in conjunction with very dark Silver Fire versions (6.0 to 10.0) that are going onto Commercial screens of very large proportions, and whose images will be viewed from enough distance that the graininess is resolved into the background.

I have painted 110" to 120" Silver Fire screens with gain in excess of 4.0, and whose blacks were truly and awesomely "Interstellar" and whose Whites simply blazed like (dare I say it...) a real supernova. But the viewing cone was only about 30 degrees off axis (at best) and from 10 feet away I could plainly see enough granularity in the image to make it unacceptable to me.

For your stated screen size, and the fact that the JVC actually puts out a brighter image than it's specs would tend to infer, I don't think you would need anything that would go beyond the Silver Fire v2.5 N/C version.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #2181 of 2249 Old 06-20-2015, 04:58 PM
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Is my understanding correct that my gain rises and the screen gets darker the more colourant I use?

I've seen a Draper React 3.0, a Supernova, and Stewart Firehawk and Grayhawk today and I liked the Firehawk the most. It's a dark grey screen with enough gain to truly shine for me :-D

Do you know a online shop that ships to Germany or how could I get all these components? :-\

Thanks
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post #2182 of 2249 Old 06-20-2015, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacx View Post
Is my understanding correct that my gain rises and the screen gets darker the more colourant I use?
The gain rises because there is proportionately much higher amounts of Pearl and Silver metallic added. I didn't relate numbers because I don't advocate it for Home use.

Quote:
I've seen a Draper React 3.0, a Supernova, and Stewart Firehawk and Grayhawk today and I liked the Firehawk the most. It's a dark grey screen with enough gain to truly shine for me :-D
I've gone head-to- head with the Grayhawk and burned that bird to a crisp...fully 9 years ago. On every count, including ambient light resistance, it's feathers were plucked and at a shade of Grey that was lighter no less.

Quote:
Do you know a online shop that ships to Germany or how could I get all these components? :-\

Thanks
I know the source you need.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #2183 of 2249 Old 06-21-2015, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No...use this Formula:

For your Mix I'm suggesting this:

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz. $49
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz. $49
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz. $13
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz. $13
Distilled Water 32 oz.

NO COLORANT need be added in your instance.

This mix will give very adequate ambient light performance, greatly improve Black levels, and maintain enough gain for spectacular 3D with the 1070
Hey MP

The Rustoleum are costing me $100 plus the Paint Spray for $56.
This is costing me a little more money than i taught
Any other alternative to the Rustoleum ?

Thanks!
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post #2184 of 2249 Old 06-21-2015, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Hey MP

The Rustoleum are costing me $100 plus the Paint Spray for $56.
This is costing me a little more money than i taught
Any other alternative to the Rustoleum ?

Thanks!
If your having to purchase 2 quarts of each (Silver & Pearl from Lowes) just post up that you have 2 quarts to sell to someone and reclaim $50.00

Honestly, the newest formula is the one that needs to be used. I've left the other components up for a reference more than anything else....but before too awful long they will be gone in favor of a much condensed listing.

Edit:
I see your prices so that tells me you bought are looking to buy off Amazon.

Order from Lowes online (if locally they have none) They do require a 2 quart order per type, but as stated above, you can move the 2 extra quarts on here I'm sure.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com

Last edited by MississippiMan; 06-21-2015 at 07:54 PM.
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post #2185 of 2249 Old 06-22-2015, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Honestly, the newest formula is the one that needs to be used. I've left the other components up for a reference more than anything else....but before too awful long they will be gone in favor of a much condensed listing.
Wait..what new formula? Is there finalized change to the formula posted somewhere, or were you just referring to the one you recommended to him above?
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post #2186 of 2249 Old 06-22-2015, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by merkaba View Post
Wait..what new formula? Is there finalized change to the formula posted somewhere, or were you just referring to the one you recommended to him above?
Version 2.5 that uses Rust-Oleum products. (only)

The suggestion I used above....a "No Colorant" version, was intended to bump up the Gain, reduce Graininess, and still perform exceptionally well in ambient light...especially such light as will be present in a room where lighting is always controlled to some extent.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #2187 of 2249 Old 06-22-2015, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Version 2.5 that uses Rust-Oleum products. (only)

The suggestion I used above....a "No Colorant" version, was intended to bump up the Gain, reduce Graininess, and still perform exceptionally well in ambient light...especially such light as will be present in a room where lighting is always controlled to some extent.
Ohhh, ok I did hear you talk previously about another new version coming out, if I remember correctly. Wasn't sure if I had missed something.
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post #2188 of 2249 Old 06-22-2015, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Where did you buy your Sintra from?
I have a friend who works for a company that uses sintra often. I got mine through him. I think the normal avenue is using Laird Plastics. Hopefully you have one fairly close by.
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post #2189 of 2249 Old 06-24-2015, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No...use this Formula:

For your Mix I'm suggesting this:

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz.

NO COLORANT need be added in your instance.

This mix will give very adequate ambient light performance, greatly improve Black levels, and maintain enough gain for spectacular 3D with the 1070
MP,

Went to Lowe's to pick up the Rust-Oleum Ultimate Poly Matte Water-Based 32
Instead of this http://www.lowes.com/pd_456846-90-27...Id=4760784&Ntt

The gave me this http://www.lowes.com/pd_456846-90-28...l=1&Ntt=456846

Are they the same product?

Thanks!
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post #2190 of 2249 Old 06-24-2015, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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The 1st says "Interior" and is the one specified. No# does say "Water Based" buut I have never seen or used it.

Home Depot carries the correct stuff.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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