The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 75 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2221 of 2244 Old 06-29-2015, 08:33 AM
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look awesome...quite a bit darker than mine for sure. I wish i could see this in person.



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post #2222 of 2244 Old 06-29-2015, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Well....you have those gosh darn "Floods" shining directly down onto both front corners of the screen. The SF accepts and reflects such direct lighting, so it's going to look brighter.

Note the difference in the upper triangular area at dead center that lies just outside the umbra of the Can Floods. Take the same picture with those nasty things turned off, and take it from the distance you took the other shots and I bet it will be much more comparable.

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post #2223 of 2244 Old 06-29-2015, 09:41 AM
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There's probably a lot of perceived difference in shade due to the background wall color.

I will say that the pic I posted is true to the actual color on the board
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post #2224 of 2244 Old 06-29-2015, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0b0 View Post
Don't forget that this is 5 dusters of N/C on to a base of sanded SF V2.5 3.0. It is possible that due to the base of SF 3.0 the N/C may appear darker.
Oh my, absolutely. The darker base will most assuredly deepen the color, and also reduce gain to at least some small degree.

Besides that, the N/C works out to be close to the same shade as the older 2.0

Quote:
The projector is a $200 Epson 6100 with a $50 lamp after the original Epson one exploded after 700 hours. (only abut 5 of those in my house after I purchased the projector)
Wow. Just 18,000:1 Contrast and only 1800 lumen too. Kinda mind-blowin' to think what a Epson 5030 or a Panny 8000 would put up.

Your future looks pretty bright....better get some good



Gotta luv 'dem $50.00 lamps!

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post #2225 of 2244 Old 06-29-2015, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0b0 View Post
Don't forget that this is 5 dusters of N/C on to a base of sanded SF V2.5 3.0. It is possible that due to the base of SF 3.0 the N/C may appear darker.

The projector is a $200 Epson 6100 with a $50 lamp after the original Epson one exploded after 700 hours. (only abut 5 of those in my house after I purchased the projector)
What kind of SilverFire N/C mix did you do?

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz

Thanks!
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post #2226 of 2244 Old 06-29-2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
What kind of SilverFire N/C mix did you do?

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz

Thanks!
That is the mix I used. Very quick and easy to make up. My base though is SF v2.5 3.0 so results will vary. I only had the base up because I had my Wagner 590 set to fire hose and I messed up my original attempt so I sanded it back.
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post #2227 of 2244 Old 06-30-2015, 10:53 AM
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I have an extra
Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents Interior Gloss White Pearl
Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents Interior Gloss Sterling Silver Metallic

PM me if you interested.
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post #2228 of 2244 Old 06-30-2015, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
I have an extra
Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents Interior Gloss White Pearl
Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents Interior Gloss Sterling Silver Metallic

PM me if you interested.
Monitor the Threads and PM whomever seems a likely prospect.

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post #2229 of 2244 Old 06-30-2015, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Monitor the Threads and PM whomever seems a likely prospect.
Good idea.
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post #2230 of 2244 Old 06-30-2015, 07:08 PM
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Got all the item necessary to paint, but i am a little bit nervous.
This is my first time spray painting.


Spoiler!

Spoiler!
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post #2231 of 2244 Old 06-30-2015, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Yucky mixing tool.

Home Depot has this, usually in stock in the Store I believe, and it is much more effective.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Workforce...M1HD/202251542

The metal one there doesn't stir thinner paints as well as it does the thicker paints it was designed for. It must be run at a faster speed with thinner paint, and that is exactly what you do not want to do with Silver Fire because it whips in air and creates tiny bubbles. The metal can also scrape the Teflon off the sides of that can you have there. Change it out if you can.

Oh how I miss "The Squirrel".

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post #2232 of 2244 Old 07-01-2015, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Yucky mixing tool.

Home Depot has this, usually in stock in the Store I believe, and it is much more effective.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Workforce...M1HD/202251542

The metal one there doesn't stir thinner paints as well as it does the thicker paints it was designed for. It must be run at a faster speed with thinner paint, and that is exactly what you do not want to do with Silver Fire because it whips in air and creates tiny bubbles. The metal can also scrape the Teflon off the sides of that can you have there. Change it out if you can.

Oh how I miss "The Squirrel".
Just got the Workforce 1 gallon from HomeDepot.

Time to mix the paint.
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post #2233 of 2244 Old 07-01-2015, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Just got the Workforce 1 gallon from HomeDepot.

Time to mix the paint.
Set the Drill on slow speed, and mix for 2-3 minutes. It's a good thing to first add the Water and Poly, then the silver and pearl....in that order.

All the time mixing slowly.

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post #2234 of 2244 Old 07-01-2015, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Set the Drill on slow speed, and mix for 2-3 minutes. It's a good thing to first add the Water and Poly, then the silver and pearl....in that order.

All the time mixing slowly.
In Order
Distilled Water
Poly
Silver
Pearl
Behr 1750

Is that correct?
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post #2235 of 2244 Old 07-01-2015, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
In Order
Distilled Water
Poly
Behr 1750

Silver
Pearl


Is that correct?

Do it in the order above

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post #2236 of 2244 Unread 07-05-2015, 04:44 PM
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Just waste money and time buying all these item to come up short.

The first half the screen look s good,but the other half has bubble,couldn't get the Spray adjusted correctly.

Everything looks bad,i should just order Carl's Silver Screen and call it it a day,Save money,time and less labor...

Spoiler!

Last edited by Movie78; 07-05-2015 at 07:54 PM.
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post #2237 of 2244 Unread 07-05-2015, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Just waste money and time buying all these item to come up short.

The first half the screen look s good,but the other half has bubble,couldn't get the Spray adjusted correctly.

Everything looks bad,i should just order Carl's Silver Screen and call it it a day,Save money,time and less labor...
If the rest looks good besides the bubble, I've heard you can fix smaller things like that with a light spot-sanding and a quick feathered spraying of the area with a wrist flicking motion of sorts.
Wait for MississippiMan to explain it better, but there's likely still hope of getting a smooth surface without much more work.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #2238 of 2244 Unread 07-05-2015, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
If the rest looks good besides the bubble, I've heard you can fix smaller things like that with a light spot-sanding and a quick feathered spraying of the area with a wrist flicking motion of sorts.
Wait for MississippiMan to explain it better, but there's likely still hope of getting a smooth surface without much more work.
Hope you right.

I feel very disappointed now,the Spray Gun suggested by MP was nonadjustable.
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post #2239 of 2244 Unread 07-05-2015, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Hope you right.

I feel very disappointed now,the Spray Gun suggested by MP was nonadjustable.
None of the basic Electric HVLP Guns are adjustable, except for the pattern (Horizontal & Vertical) Adjustability comes solely from the size tip used and the viscosity of the paint. (Except more expensive models can have a Air Pressure adjustment)

A "Bubble"....a place where a blister the size of a dime or so appears, is caused by air that was trapped between a paint layer and the original surface (out gassing) or because the prior coat was too heavy and the next coat followed too fast.

Not many other reasons because to Gun does not shoot Bubbles.

Post a picture of the trouble spot. Exp0lain if you generally had any other issue on the bottom half.


When a screen is painted Top to Bottom in one coat, usually there is a evenness in the application. Of one stops and starts, then one can have evenness issues and trouble spots.

I need to see your surface, and have a detail description of your coats, the current number same, how you applied them, ti9me between coats, room conditions and drying assistance if any, and how much paint you have left.

By most rights, it would have to be an awful mess not to be repairable...and I can base my instructions to you on what information you can relate.

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post #2240 of 2244 Unread 07-06-2015, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
None of the basic Electric HVLP Guns are adjustable, except for the pattern (Horizontal & Vertical) Adjustability comes solely from the size tip used and the viscosity of the paint. (Except more expensive models can have a Air Pressure adjustment)

A "Bubble"....a place where a blister the size of a dime or so appears, is caused by air that was trapped between a paint layer and the original surface (out gassing) or because the prior coat was too heavy and the next coat followed too fast.

Not many other reasons because to Gun does not shoot Bubbles.

Post a picture of the trouble spot. Exp0lain if you generally had any other issue on the bottom half.


When a screen is painted Top to Bottom in one coat, usually there is a evenness in the application. Of one stops and starts, then one can have evenness issues and trouble spots.

I need to see your surface, and have a detail description of your coats, the current number same, how you applied them, ti9me between coats, room conditions and drying assistance if any, and how much paint you have left.

By most rights, it would have to be an awful mess not to be repairable...and I can base my instructions to you on what information you can relate.
Look into the spoiler from the above post.

This amount of paint i have left.

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 8 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz
And half of what i previously mix.


Spoiler!

Last edited by Movie78; 07-06-2015 at 07:32 AM.
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post #2241 of 2244 Unread 07-06-2015, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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One very good reason to author your own build thread is that every step of the way can be outlined. This Thread was not intended to be used a a Build Thread for individual projects.
I really have no way to go back and check on what you have done and how you got there.

What substrate are you using that the wood support would be "bleeding through"?

The close up image you showed shows something that looks decidedly worse than in the full sized image. Did you enhance that area.?

I need a description of what the Gun / paint was doing...and what was different / changed from the top to the bottom.
You mentioned how the gun could not be "adjusted". What needed to be "changed" from when you started up top to when you started getting poorer results below?

Did you run low on paint?
Did the gun stop dispensing paint evenly (clog?)
Did the paint stop sticking to the substrate properly?

You did not answer my other questions at all, so that really leaves me in the dark at present.

While the entire process can not really be described as being "easy",neither is is "hard" if the specific directions are followed. Unfortunately the latter leaves a few things that can go wrong if something is overlooked, left out, or done incorrectly. Everyone being different, individual results can vary. While the vast majority have little or no issues, that doesn't count for much when someone such as yourself does have them, so finding out specifically what happened, and determining why is imperative for me to be able to determine a fix. And at present, I don't have enough to information to do that.

A good start would be to start your own thread, because if the discussion and helping get's lengthy I would like it to continue on such.

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post #2242 of 2244 Unread 07-19-2015, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Hope you right.

I feel very disappointed now,the Spray Gun suggested by MP was nonadjustable.
Which Gun did you get? EDIT: Looking back I see you got the same gun as me. Read below to see my experience with this gun. I do belive it makes the job alot harder and the final result will not be mindblowing but you can still achieve a very good finish. My firsrt try had the same bubble problem you are talking about.

I went with this one (2nd choice recomendation),
http://www.amazon.com/1000ml-Electri...iglink20246-20

I found a few things with the spray not ideal. I thought I didn't output enough paint compared to other videos, and the vertical pattern was slightly skewed.

I made alot of mistakes on my fist attempt at Silver Fire and I painted an 150" screen so it was alot of work. By bubbles do you mean orange peel texture that is visable when watching movies? This is the same issue I had on my first attempt.

With the help of MM I started from scratch with alot of sanding, redid 10 coats of primer and 10 coats of SF with sanding between most coats and better technique etc.

I made almost zero mistakes this time round and had fans and heaters etc and thought my technique was excellent, I was just disappointed with my gun, I know it was not performing like it should. Others have said the gun is fine so I am guessing they have slight variations so you may get an average one.

The end result was a huge improvement with a result that is functional. I was going for a better viewing experience both during the day and at night and I have achieved those results. I do still have some visable texture, which is basically the larger drops of splatter my gun produced. I may only notice it once or twice during a Movie under the right circumstances.

I absolutely hated sanding my first try and starting again, the amont of labor required was torture. The painting process I actually enjoyed.

I am going to have another go once I settle on a new gun (which I have to have imported seeing we cant get anything in my country) this time on a portable solution so I can take my time and not anoy the wife.

Last edited by Jesse7; 07-19-2015 at 07:24 PM.
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The temptation became too great. I picked up the final few ingredients, broke out the fancier mixing tools and got to work.

The following samples of SilverFire were rolled onto white melamine panels. I cannot at this time recommend rolling SF as it wasn't the friendliest of rolling experiences (hence why it isn't at all recommended in the first post of this thread..go figure). The images are 4ft-wide, the projector was outputting nearly 150lumens from a ~1.4:1 distance ratio (closer than most light-rejecting screens allow).
This is approximately the same as a 600lumen projector hitting a 110" screen.

The far left container is a half-batch of plain colorant (50ml RGBY acrylics+50ml water), the middle is what the 100ml of colorant looks like when pre-mixed with the 100ml of pearl and 100ml of silver, the far right is a 90ml sample of SF-base (silver+pearl+UPW+poly+water).
The picture on the right shows where the light that's hitting the screen is coming from..a fairly sharp incoming angle of light allows a light-rejecting screen to do what it does.





These pictures give a rough idea of both gain AND shade of these screens compared to eachother and the paper-towel on top..with thirst pockets..
The top/left sample in each shot is SF-3 (around N5-N5.5) while the top/right sample in each shot is SF-12 (around N4.5-N5). The lower/center sample in the top pictures is a simple mix of 9parts RalphLauren metallic (untinted) and 1part flat/matte-"Grey Tabby" while the lower/center sample in the bottom pair of pictures is 5parts RalphLauren metallic mixed with 1part flat/matte-"Obsidian Glass".

The SF-3 and SF-12 were much closer in shade than I had anticipated, but I've been informed this is largely due to the adoption of Rustoleum Silver instead of the previous version's lighter-colored silver. The darker starting point means the added colorant has a smaller effect while also allowing many to simply use a N/C variant of SF and still have a dark enough screen to be effective against ambient light..no measuring spoons required.

The 9:1GreyTabby appeared to match the gain of the SF screens, but its shade looked just a hair lighter..possibly a match for SF-1.
The 5:1ObsidianGlass had noticeably lower gain and a significantly darker shade.




NOTE: pictures tend to over-emphasize contrast, which makes hotspotting and other uniformity problems much more visible in photos even though they may be nearly invisible in-person. The hotspotting below is not nearly as bad in-person as it appears in the pictures.

All of the following pictures show the SF-3 on the right with the 9:1GreyTabby on the left and a sheet of white copy-paper hanging near the center. For reference, that same copy-paper matched the on-axis brightness of the Stewart1.3 and exceeded the brightness of the BlackDiamond1.4 screens.
The on-axis gain of the SilverFire screen appears to be well over 1.0, in fact it is noticeably brighter on-axis than major manufacturer screens labeled as 1.3 and up.
The off-axis gain around 30degrees (a seated position at 1.2:1 distance:screen-width far enough to the side that the head is outside of the screen's side area) appears to stay right around 1.0gain..an impressive feat that should allow the average outside seat to still enjoy a bright image.





Once I've gotten some more paint I'll have to try the newest SilverFire NC. I'm looking forward to a more rollable SF experience.

In short: it's a little lighter in shade/color than I'd prefer for harsh bright-room duty and I can certainly see why spraying is the way to go, but wow is it ever a bright screen for the shade of grey.
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Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

Last edited by Ftoast; Today at 03:26 AM.
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post #2244 of 2244 Unread Today, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I just finished this 130" 2.39:1 Drywall Silver Fire v2.5 N/C



You will note the shade of Grey is darker than any previously seen
SF v2.5 1.0, all the way up to 2.0

Also note that the image was taken using a Flash, and the last coat of paint had only been drying for 20 minutes. Yet one can plainly see that the Flash's umra does not create a sharply defined central reflection (hot spot), but rather one that covers a very broad area, one the "reflects" the energy across the wides possible area while still having enough gain (1.3)
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