The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 2432 Old 01-03-2016, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
85-88% 2nd Surface

90-92% 1st Surface

Mylar can be as high as 96%

The 12% to 15% attenuation via true 2nd Surface Light Fusion is all that it takes to make a difference..
do you think the trouble it would take to make a mylar backed plexi would offer more reflection then your standered mirror?
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post #2312 of 2432 Old 01-03-2016, 08:51 PM
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do you think the trouble it would take to make a mylar backed plexi would offer more reflection then your standered mirror?
Not all Mylar will reach the full 96% and even those that do will have their reflectivity taken lower by having plexi attached to their front...both from the plexiglass never having optical perfection and from the adhesive never drying absolutely/perfectly clear.
If you can get a mirror in the size you need for a decent price, that would be an equal or better way.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
"A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #2313 of 2432 Old 01-03-2016, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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What Ftoast Said ^^^^^^^^^^^^

The only reason to do the "Mylar & Plexi" thing would be the non-availability of a 1/8" Plastic or Glass Mirror, or the costs of do so.

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post #2314 of 2432 Old 01-07-2016, 10:30 AM
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Mississippi Man, 1st off been reading alot of your threads and topics of DIY screen/paints. The reason i registered to this site is to ask you a couple of questions.
Ok enough of the man love lol. Finishing a basement theatre build wanting to do my own screen because of your screens/paint mix, cancelled my order from SI almost paid $5500 for. 120 black diamond!!!!!
Ok i want to use 1/4 inch hard board comes painted and primed for likr $30 (4?8ft) going to put 2?2 back frame (make it look like its LCD ganging) with LED lighting. So it will feel and look like a 120inch LED tv and a black diamond zero edge. Now the paint i would like the blackest paint possible. But i have read that you need a high lumen projector 2000-3000 lumens??? I bought a JVC DLA X500r and it has 1300 lumens. How does a $300 ebay cheapy have a better picture on black screen than my $4000 projector???
My room will be fully light controlled with 1 window but would like lights on alot as i have buddys come over for sporting events and dont want it pitch black. Projector will be approx 10-12 feet from screen. Your input would be great! Thanks in advanced.

Oh and have you seen that guy on youtube about the digital crystal black oynx paint that he selling. Saying it better than SI screens etc etc....whats your take on that paint versus your mix??


Thanks
Barry ON Canada
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post #2315 of 2432 Old 01-07-2016, 12:13 PM
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A 4x8 panel won't allow a screen as large as 120", but there are larger panels (for a larger but still relatively low price) which can if you're aiming for the same 120" size.

Part of the glory of using a mix-it-yourself mix like SilverFire is you have the ability to customize it to look like something more expensive by raising or dropping the peak-gain and adjusting the color.
This lets you fit it more specifically to your particular projector and image-size and situation.
...while saving money!

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
"A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #2316 of 2432 Old 01-07-2016, 02:17 PM
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How many feet should the projector be for s 4X8 panel. And have you seen the digital crystal paint? And could i have a near black paint finish with my JVC projector and get maximum quality. Like the BD screen? Thanks buddy
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post #2317 of 2432 Old 01-07-2016, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
A 4x8 panel won't allow a screen as large as 120", but there are larger panels (for a larger but still relatively low price) which can if you're aiming for the same 120" size.

Part of the glory of using a mix-it-yourself mix like SilverFire is you have the ability to customize it to look like something more expensive by raising or dropping the peak-gain and adjusting the color.
This lets you fit it more specifically to your particular projector and image-size and situation.
...while saving money!
Oh and that screen material you used
where can i find up here in Canada?
Thanks
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post #2318 of 2432 Old 01-07-2016, 05:34 PM
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How many feet should the projector be for s 4X8 panel. And have you seen the digital crystal paint? And could i have a near black paint finish with my JVC projector and get maximum quality. Like the BD screen? Thanks buddy
That JVC can fill a 4x8 panel anywhere from 11ft-21ft back..mounting closer will help keep brightness at its highest.

I've been keeping an eye on the newer DigitalCrystal paint since it appears they've actually been making it into a useable ALR paint, but the pricing is still ridiculous to me.

The BD screen loses some picture-quality to get as dark as it is..its off-center viewing dims a lot and so do its corners if you're mounted too close, the image gets somewhat grainy and tinted a little blue/purple.
In a pretty dedicated room with decent control over where light is directed you should be better off with a slightly lighter-colored screen and with that 700+lumens in even the dimmest calibrated mode your 8ft-wide screen will be plenty bright as long as you keep around 1.0gain which won't be difficult.
Using a higher colorant version can get you a pretty dark color while keeping gain quite high.
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Oh and that screen material you used
where can i find up here in Canada?
Thanks
Which material?
The 4x8 panel like "thrifty white" is often available at HomeDepot.
Larger panels like Sintra/Komex are usually found through sign shops.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
"A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #2319 of 2432 Old 01-07-2016, 06:43 PM
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Thanks for the info i appreciate it alot
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post #2320 of 2432 Old 01-08-2016, 06:41 PM
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I want to make a small batch(1/4 batch) of silver fire. Is this okay as long as I divide all the measurement by 1/4?? Also, I know the formula on the Silver Fire only shows up to Silver Fire 5.0, but I'm guessing if one wants to do a Silver Fire 6.0 or 7.0 one just increases the ingredients in the same ratio as if for say someone was jumping from Silver Fire 3.0 to 4.0 or 5.0??
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post #2321 of 2432 Old 01-08-2016, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post
I want to make a small batch(1/4 batch) of silver fire. Is this okay as long as I divide all the measurement by 1/4?? Also, I know the formula on the Silver Fire only shows up to Silver Fire 5.0, but I'm guessing if one wants to do a Silver Fire 6.0 or 7.0 one just increases the ingredients in the same ratio as if for say someone was jumping from Silver Fire 3.0 to 4.0 or 5.0??
Yes, as long as everything you use is divided to 1/4 including the colorant amounts you're adding.

Yes, the darkening follows the same series. BUT, it's usually recommended by MississippiMan that you gradually increase the amount of Behr UPW used as you go really dark to help avoid a grainy/textured look.

I personally feel this increasing white and the high amount of Pearl+Silver which is also increased as you increase the amount of colorant would make going much darker very unlikely..like one step forward, one step back. If the point of adding more white is to dilute the more Silver+Pearl metallic you're also adding, why not simply stop adding more Silver+Pearl?
Why not just slowly add RGBY+water colorant withOUT increasing the amount of Pearl+Silver, and let that tiny drop in gain help avoid the grainy/textured look? Get it as dark as you need that way, test a small bit, if it's too grainy you can gradually add UPW until it's a balance of smooth/clean and the darkness that you prefer.
Both ways you can only really go so dark before problems become more and more likely.
If you're painting over a mirror I believe the darker but less metallic way could work better than the regular way.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
"A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #2322 of 2432 Old 01-08-2016, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Yes, as long as everything you use is divided to 1/4 including the colorant amounts you're adding.

Yes, the darkening follows the same series. BUT, it's usually recommended by MississippiMan that you gradually increase the amount of Behr UPW used as you go really dark to help avoid a grainy/textured look.

I personally feel this increasing white and the high amount of Pearl+Silver which is also increased as you increase the amount of colorant would make going much darker very unlikely..like one step forward, one step back. If the point of adding more white is to dilute the more Silver+Pearl metallic you're also adding, why not simply stop adding more Silver+Pearl?
Why not just slowly add RGBY+water colorant withOUT increasing the amount of Pearl+Silver, and let that tiny drop in gain help avoid the grainy/textured look? Get it as dark as you need that way, test a small bit, if it's too grainy you can gradually add UPW until it's a balance of smooth/clean and the darkness that you prefer.
Both ways you can only really go so dark before problems become more and more likely.
If you're painting over a mirror I believe the darker but less metallic way could work better than the regular way.
Thanks for info Ftoast. Can you really just add more RGB colorant without increasing the Silver + Pearl. By the way, does the F in Ftoast mean French Toast does it, LOL.

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post #2323 of 2432 Old 01-09-2016, 02:30 AM
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Thanks for info Ftoast. Can you really just add more RGB colorant without increasing the Silver + Pearl. By the way, does the F in Ftoast mean French Toast does it, LOL.
I believe adding small amounts of just the colorant could work since it would also slowly lower the gain which can help tame grain/texture on a darker-colored screen.

Best breakfast food ever...as long as it isn't from a restaurant.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
"A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #2324 of 2432 Old 01-09-2016, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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narhic_fd

Look at the Formula Table that is posted on Page 1. The amounts of Metallic s go up incrementally with the RGBY Colorant. The only thing not shown is how when someone is making such a dark screen for home use (with closer viewing distances) that an additional 1-2 oz of UPW is also added with each step above the 5 level

Simply adding more & more colorant will drive gain way down.

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post #2325 of 2432 Old 01-13-2016, 10:03 AM
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Anybody use the Varathane 1-qt. Matte Soft Touch Polyurethane rather than the Rustoleum. The rustoleum is no longer available at our local home depot or lowes?

After a little more research it appears that the Varathane brand is now owned and manufactured by Rustoleum. When i go to the Rustoleum website to look at the MSDS sheets for these products they only show the MSDS for the varathane product and no longer show an MSDS for the rustoleum product.

They may have just relabled the rustoleum product to Varathane since it is probably a better known name as far a Poly finishes goes. Just my 2 cents and thinking out loud.

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post #2326 of 2432 Old 01-18-2016, 03:46 PM
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I am a noob and this is my first projector, so if i ask dumb questions i apologize in advance.

I was wondering what version of Silver fire n/c, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 etc i should use with an epson 3500 in a room with some ambient light, but none shining directly on the projector screen. It is going in a small living room 15x15' with two windows facing north east. The projector screen will be on the North West wall The projector will be 14' from a 100" screen There are two openings into the living room but none of the light coming from those openings will be hitting directly on the projector screen.

While i like the idea of a darker screen I don't want to loose the ability to produce good whites.


Thanks Again

Carl.
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post #2327 of 2432 Old 01-31-2016, 03:09 PM
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MississippiMan, I've asked this before but not sure if i got the reply i was looking for. If you are doing a true "Light Fusion" screen, if it be Silver Fire or another paint mixture, When used with a 3D projector and 3D content, Does the depth that is added by true "Light Fusion" equal more depth when watching something in 3D??? In other words, If i shot a 3D image onto a normal painted substrate then shot the same image onto a "Light Fusion" screen would the depth of the 3D image be greater on the "Light Fusion" screen??? Only reason I want to be sure on this is due to the size of my projected image, it would require something bigger then the slandered 4 x 8 foot mirror or plexiglass cause from top to bottom my image is 59 inches high, set at a 16:9 screen. I tend to find that once you go past 4 x 8 ft on these substrates they seem to become far more expensive and the only thing in my opinion that would warrant me to spend, the probably $200 on a mirror or Plexiglass, is if it gave me a deeper 3D image. If it doesn't, then I would just be better off taking the $200 and putting it toward a brighter projector with higher contrast and thus allowing me to make my image bigger give better 3D due to the bigger image.
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post #2328 of 2432 Old 01-31-2016, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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True Light Fusion provides the perception of having a increased depth in 2D.
Because of that, it will only help the 2D image "Quality" of 3D....but as far as increasing any degree of "3D standoff depth", no. That is a performance related aspect of the active display itself, how it displays the Director's content, and lastly, how well the Glasses pull it all off.

Consider this as far as your 3D aspirations go: 3D always looks better bigger...and sitting closer.

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post #2329 of 2432 Old 01-31-2016, 05:41 PM
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True Light Fusion provides the perception of having a increased depth in 2D.
Because of that, it will only help the 2D image "Quality" of 3D....but as far as increasing any degree of "3D standoff depth", no. That is a performance related aspect of the active display itself, how it displays the Director's content, and lastly, how well the Glasses pull it all off.

Consider this as far as your 3D aspirations go: 3D always looks better bigger...and sitting closer.
Yes, In the bunches of 3D movies I've seen, your distance to the screen deff determines your viewing experience. Right now I have the optoma w303 projector, native 720p projector with 3200 lumens giving me a image size as stated up top. I do enjoy the projector! Once in 3D mode, I'm guessing the projector probably goes from the native 3200 lumens and drops to 2200 - 2600 lumans if I had to guess, once in 3D mode. This doesn't factor in the darkening of the DLP glasses either. DLP glasses, which once turned on and thrown into the mixture, I'm guessing I probably get about 1300 lumens that reach my eye's after that's all thrown in. When used in a dark room it does give me enough lumens to really enjoy what I'm watching in 3D. But with that low amount of lumens 3D is not much for daytime use or any ambient light conditions so it really confines my 3D use to night use or bat cave room. I imagine I could go with one of the very dark shades of Black Flame, that would deff give more contrast so I could make my projector image bigger and allow me use in day light or ambient light conditions but then i fear that using such a dark shade would end up killing to much whites, making the image to dark to enjoy. Optoma has released some new batches of projector with LOTS of lumans at a decent price:

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-W415-Lu...ct_top?ie=UTF8

that would give plenty of lumens for 3D use with a VERY dark shade of Black Flame to throw in as well to combat ambient light for day use. I just really don't want to go through the process of selling my old projector, my Wii U, couple of other things to throw in with the money i would have used for the plexiglass to buy one but.. that might be the only option to get the results I'm looking to get.
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post #2330 of 2432 Old 01-31-2016, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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To try to get you settled in once and for all, you should consider using Black Flame X1I on a affordable substrate, and settle down and enjoy some watching time.

You've been bouncing around from this, that, and another thing for far too long.

If my suggestions mean anything at all, just take this latest one to breast and hold it close.

It's dark.
It has Gain.
It has excellent Whites.
It's easy to spray. (..God knows you got some sprayin' experience...)
It's cost will be way less than dealin' with Mirrors.
It's the most advanced Black Flame ever.


So...who ya gonna call?

I think ya know.


(Let me add this though....you should get a Full HD 1080p 3D PJ. The w303 just ain't up to the standards a new screen would allow. )

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post #2331 of 2432 Old 01-31-2016, 07:33 PM
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To try to get you settled in once and for all, you should consider using Black Flame X1I on a affordable substrate, and settle down and enjoy some watching time.

You've been bouncing around from this, that, and another thing for far too long.

If my suggestions mean anything at all, just take this latest one to breast and hold it close.

It's dark.
It has Gain.
It has excellent Whites.
It's easy to spray. (..God knows you got some sprayin' experience...)
LOOOLLL

Okay, I trust your judgement...I get my income tax soon so might as well go for it. I would like to get a full 1080p 3D projector but I'll probably wait another year or 2 for the price to go down before i go that rout. I'm content with the 720p for now.
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post #2332 of 2432 Old 01-31-2016, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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LOOOLLL

Okay, I trust your judgement...I get my income tax soon so might as well go for it. I would like to get a full 1080p 3D projector but I'll probably wait another year or 2 for the price to go down before i go that rout. I'm content with the 720p for now.
Ok...but if you disallow the use of a mirror, that money can apply toward the paint. PJ-wise...I'm not sure what pricing you bexpect in a year, but 3K lumen 1080p 3D DLP PJs exist now for under $1K.


Must be a small refund.

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post #2333 of 2432 Old 02-01-2016, 07:15 AM
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I have one huge bit of advice...

Switch from the so-called 3200 lumen optima to a 'true' 2300 lumen 1080 Epson... Like the 2040.

It's a night n day difference in brightness and contrast in both 2D and especially 3D viewing.
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post #2334 of 2432 Old 02-03-2016, 08:04 PM
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You guys are the best- finally moving out of the lurking phase and going to get my screen set up. Opened a dedicated thread, but sadly I'll need to drop a few posts before I can direct you there

Building my screen with Celtec- room will typically have ambient lighting to deal with; along with lots of nighttime gaming.

Aiming for 122" to 123" screen size. View distance will be around 12'. Projector is a Sony VPL-HW40ES, planned mounting will be around 12'-13' (I think, still working out placement).

Thinking at least a 3.0 formulation, but might try 4.0. Looking forward to some input from the team here!
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post #2335 of 2432 Old 02-03-2016, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm reviewing the information you posted on your other thread, and I will reply at length during the day tomorrow

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post #2336 of 2432 Old 02-07-2016, 06:33 PM
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Behr 1850 UPW Flat Home Depot Discontinued according to HomeDepot

MM - or any of the creators, is there an alternative? what about matte 1750?
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post #2337 of 2432 Old 02-07-2016, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Behr 1850 UPW Flat Home Depot Discontinued according to HomeDepot

MM - or any of the creators, is there an alternative? what about matte 1750?
That is the accepted substitute....actually the replacement.

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post #2338 of 2432 Old 02-07-2016, 08:57 PM
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No issues at all with the Behr 1750 UPW flat.
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post #2339 of 2432 Old 02-07-2016, 09:05 PM
Mmm Hmmm
 
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Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
No issues at all with the Behr 1750 UPW flat.
does it change the poly matte?
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post #2340 of 2432 Old 02-07-2016, 09:22 PM
Mmm Hmmm
 
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
That is the accepted substitute....actually the replacement.
since this is matte instead of flat does this change the amount of poly matte used?
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