Epson 9700 Flat Paint Test... - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 201 Old 05-02-2011, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post

... unless you want the best possible performance.

Yes, a modern projector can put an impressive image on a lot of different surfaces, even a bare concrete wall. But after investing in such a projector, I expect most folks will choose their screen with care, realizing that a good projector is only half of the equation.

Garry

I don't like to disagree with the Mods. So I will embellish Prof55 statement a little.
I have always felt the projector is 1/3 of the equation and the other thirds are the screen and the room. This trilogy is like three links in a chain and only as strong as the weakest one.
In this case be it half or a third why throw away PQ if you don't need to. I have long been in favor of stealth screens and have done several for people. By stealth I mean a screen wall where the wall paint is the screen. In these cases the room was still designed around projection and the wall paint was a simple neutral gray with gain adjusted. but when painting the whole wall it was no longer a screen only. Without boarders all aspect ratios and zooms work and without the contrast to a black boarder the perception of gray bars is lessened in some ways. The big selling point is a room that gives no illusion of a theater until the lights dim and the projector lights up.
As an accent wall some of the well suited screen paints do a fine job and look quite attractive.


Bud

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post #182 of 201 Old 05-10-2011, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So it has been months now since starting this thread..

I will ask again to those with a DiY Style screen to post screen shots
to show the Fail in this Painted Taupe Wall...

We only have had 3 different people post,
and i know that DIY paint has come a long way but
i cant see the difference from my Painted wall to Steves Wall
vs
the DIy Style Painted screens...

I just scratch my head and think why take the time to mix/spray
if i can Roll it on and get the same results...
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post #183 of 201 Old 05-11-2011, 07:16 AM
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The only obvious "Fail" in your painted Taupe wall is the fact that it is not a color neutral screen surface. In theory you want a screen surface that reflects all wavelengths of light equally. If it does not then you can get color shifts. Of course given a projector that is on the cool side of color balance and a warmer color surface such as taupe you could end up with a fairly well color balanced image.

Barring any excessive roughness or significant deviations from a flat surface a wall with a neutral grey paint with some low level of luster can provide an excellent screen surface.

It is very difficult to demonstrate any color imbalance by comparing one photo to another. The only way to demonstrate any "possible" color imbalance in your screen would be for you to prepare a neutral grey 2'x4' sample pannel and take some side-by-side comparison photos. Such as the photos I prepared that are located here: http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...ison%20Slides/

These images were prepared by making a mirror image about the center of the image. Place a a sample on either side of the center or a sample panel on one side with your current screen on the other side. In the images there are 3 blocks for including a photographic color card, white card, and in the center a Whibal Neutral Gray card. These photographic tools allow you to properly color correct the images using a photo editor.

If you don't want to bother with the photographic color balancing then you can do your own subjective comparisons using the images found here: http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...20-%20NoCards/

Once again let me emphasize that it is impossible to make any judgments comparing two different photos of a projected image. Even with the same projector and camera let alone two different cameras and projected images.

fraisa, if you want to know if painting your wall a neutral grey instead of taupe will improve your projected image, then you could do a simple test using a 2'x4' sample panel painted a neutral grey. Do the side-by-side comparison using the mirrored images I have prepared and decide what you think.
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post #184 of 201 Old 05-11-2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

. . . The big selling point is a room that gives no illusion of a theater until the lights dim and the projector lights up.
As an accent wall some of the well suited screen paints do a fine job and look quite attractive.

The only problem is that you might have this large blank area of wall that looks out of place with the rest of the room decor.

That's where an old retractable screen could be useful. Of course you need some artistic ability, or to know someone who does. Paint the screen with a nice landscape or maybe a movie themed collage. When not watching a movie just pull down the screen like a huge painting.

You could project a favourite movie image on the screen and then trace it and paint it. Of course you could tell people you painted it freehand. That way if they are not impressed with your home theater at least they might be impressed with your artistic painting ability.
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post #185 of 201 Old 05-11-2011, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I really dont get it....

After taking 40 min to dial in my image off the rolled painted Wall ( which has been painted over 5yrs ago...)

This image is just as good as any DIY Screen Sprayed Paint...


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post #186 of 201 Old 05-11-2011, 11:15 PM
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hmmm. you think?!

except you spent so much time trying to calibrate to skins tones that you think are natural and trying to remove the red push... that you've lost nearly 75% of the detail in the face. especially since the girl has a considerable amount of freckles that are now non-existant in your screenshot.

of course you would be naive to think that you know anything about diy beyond your taute wall. to suggest otherwise without ever compared or tried anything else makes your being a dealer... less than believable...
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post #187 of 201 Old 05-12-2011, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
hmmm. you think?!

except you spent so much time trying to calibrate to skins tones that you think are natural and trying to remove the red push... that you've lost nearly 75% of the detail in the face. especially since the girl has a considerable amount of freckles that are now non-existant in your screenshot.

of course you would be naive to think that you know anything about diy beyond your taute wall. to suggest otherwise without ever compared or tried anything else makes your being a dealer... less than believable...
Maxxx this shot is very darn good...
and i would love to compare it to another DIY Screen shot but....hmmmm
NO ONe Posts any...


That shot is from the disney wow Disc...
If anyone has it please take a shot and prove out Maxxx theory on the skin tones...

I will revisit that scene on my mfg screen and see if there is an abundance og Freckles on her Face that are not showing up..
My mfg screen is dialed in to the Nine so if she has alot of Freckles i will see it right away ...

Again that is from the DIsney Wow Disc,
I welcome all from the DIY Screen world to take a screen shot and post it in this thread...

to be continued... stay tuned same time ,,,, Same Channel.....
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post #188 of 201 Old 05-12-2011, 11:37 AM
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yes i am aware of where that screenshot comes from... and it has been posted several times before here on diy... which is why i know about the freckles and skin tone.

also, your whites are very subdued...noticably light grey in fact.

honestly what that screenshot shows is how you are handicapping a very excellent 9700 with a screen that doesn't quite do it full justice.
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post #189 of 201 Old 05-12-2011, 12:00 PM
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If you are not allowed to select the colour of the walls in your office then you really have done all there is to do by calibrating the projector to produce an image that you are satisfied with.

If you want to determine through testing that there is no advantage in painting your wall with one of the known off-the-shelf neutral grey rolled wall paints, then "you" will have to make a sample panel and perform the testing yourself.

If someone posts the exact same screen shot and it looks different than yours that could be due to many factors, many of which have nothing to do with the colour of your screen.

As a fellow Canadian I can direct you to any number of off-the-shelf neutral grey wall paint tints that you could use to paint a reference grey sample panel. I have already provided you with links to digital images specifically setup for doing side-by-side comparisons.

You have done the first part of the test already, by calibrating the projector to produce the best image possible under your circumstances. Now if you had a neutral grey sample panel (at least 2'x4') you could try to calibrate to that. That is the only way you will determine if a neutral grey rolled paint screen has any advantage over the existing tan coloured wall. In fact that would be the only way to demonstrate the advantage, if any, to your wife.

No amount of begging, coercing, or stroking will make it possible for us to do this fundamental testing/experimenting for you by simply posting screen shots of exactly the same image on a different screen surface, in a different room, using a different digital camera, and with a different level of photographic skill. All we could demonstrate is that something is different.
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post #190 of 201 Old 05-12-2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

NO ONe Posts any...

After this whole long tired thread, you really haven't figured out why yet? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

My mfg screen is dialed in to the Nine so if she has alot of Freckles i will see it right away ...

Sorry, I'm guessing it's not. Too "dial in to the Nine" you'd have to calibrate it, which you've never actually mentioned really doing. (Eyeballing it with a "calibration disc" doesn't count, sorry.) If you had gotten a colorimeter-or better yet a spectrophotometer--you would have quickly found how hard/impossible it would be to calibrate your taupe screen.

I actually did throw up a taupe panel--my wife was painting another room--and tried a brief calibration. In very little time it became apparent just how ridiculous it was to even try. It wasn't worth the time to finish or even to record the measurements. Even though I knew what the result would be, I gave it a try. Two minutes later, I gave up. it just wasn't going to work. You want the measurements? Give it a go yourself.

Will projecting on to a taupe wall give a watchable picture if you have no other option? Yes, of course it will. Will you get a quality picture comparable to a good DIY paint? No, of course you won't. Not even close. It defies all comprehension that someone who sells screens would continue to think so in spite of all the information freely given to you. To continue to insist that you can shows a complete lack of understanding of how projectors/screens portray an image. No offense, but that's just the facts. Instead of insisting you're right, figure out why you're wrong. Learn from your efforts and they won't have been in vain.

Let it go Fraisa. The reason this thread has so many views is no compliment to you. It's like a train wreck, you can't help but watch. Let it go and let this thread go away. Apparently you sell BD screens... Do yourself and your customers a favor and learn a little about screen calibration. If you're going to take a lot of money for a screen, don't you think you have an ethical responsibility to learn something about how screens work? Because all this thread shows is that you don't know a thing about screen calibration. Sorry, Just calling it as I see it.
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post #191 of 201 Old 05-12-2011, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post
After this whole long tired thread, you really haven't figured out why yet? Really?


Will projecting on to a taupe wall give a watchable picture if you have no other option? Yes, of course it will. Will you get a quality picture comparable to a good DIY paint? No, of course you won't. Not even close. It defies all comprehension that someone who sells screens would continue to think so in spite of all the information freely given to you. To continue to insist that you can shows a complete lack of understanding of how projectors/screens portray an image. No offense, but that's just the facts. Instead of insisting you're right, figure out why you're wrong. Learn from your efforts and they won't have been in vain.

Let it go Fraisa. The reason this thread has so many views is no compliment to you. It's like a train wreck, you can't help but watch. Let it go and let this thread go away.
Wow ... Just how about hitting a Guy with a steel Chair UP Side the HEad and then Picking him up and Put him Thru A Table...
Then grab a sledge hammer and hit him with it...
Dang that was Harsh....

Again that shot above is still a watchable image just like this one...
Couples Retreat..




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post #192 of 201 Old 05-12-2011, 06:34 PM
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watchable if you like hanging out with a bunch of sunburnt people.
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post #193 of 201 Old 05-12-2011, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
watchable if you like hanging out with a bunch of sunburnt people.
Hey at least the sunburnt was rolled on and not sprayed....he he

Bottom Line...
The Reason i ventured onto this path was a quick fix to my wife not letting me put something on a wall and i wanted to see how the wall paint would work.
For me its okay but i cant use it during the day...

The perfect solution for my Office is to be able to watch during the day when i am hard at work at my Desk, and to have a image on my wall to watch the Noon News..
To have things playing or put my PC on and expand my desk area and get rid of my 2 flat panel computer monitors...

This Painted wall for Me is a Temporary Fix to a bigger problem..
Of which i get so much Light in my Office window that faces south...I have a very large big bay window that allows so much light I had to make sure i went with a Very High Low Reflective PC Monitor dual Monitors,
so i can see what i am doing...

If my wife said i could hang a screen on that wall Everyone knows what i would have on it.....
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post #194 of 201 Old 05-15-2011, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Shots from SteveMo's Wall Paint....



[/quote]
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post #195 of 201 Old 05-17-2011, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

yes i am aware of where that screenshot comes from... and it has been posted several times before here on diy... which is why i know about the freckles and skin tone.

also, your whites are very subdued...noticably light grey in fact.

honestly what that screenshot shows is how you are handicapping a very excellent 9700 with a screen that doesn't quite do it full justice.

Okay so i did some playing with a Epson 9700 on a mfg like i said i would.
On the Projected image I clearly can see the freckles on the face of the girl
But when i go to take the shot the freckles disappear in my camera,
My camera can not keep the detail of the freckles in the shot.
Thats is also the case with the above shot on my painted wall .
So what you think is the Painted wall is just my camera's Limits.
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post #196 of 201 Old 05-18-2011, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

...
My camera can not keep the detail of the freckles in the shot.
...

So now you see why it is not possible to make any judgments based on photos of different screens, in different situations, using different cameras. The best you can do is a side-by-side comparison in one photo. While it is true that the camera may not capture the side-by-side accurately either, at least the shortcomings of the camera will be equally applied to both screen samples.

In side-by-side comparisons there is also the issue of the projector being calibrated to favour one sample over the other. This is particularly true if the two samples are significantly different in shade. In that case the best you can do is take two photos. One with the projector calibrated for the left sample, and one with the projector calibrated for the right sample.

I think there is some validity in your attempt to see how well a projector can be calibrated to a less than ideal screen surface, such as a common taupe/tan wall paint. The problem is you have no control to compare to. Only you can do this comparison and any discrepancies between the neutral grey screen sample and the tan wall may be difficult or even impossible to capture in a photo.
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post #197 of 201 Old 05-18-2011, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So now you see why it is not possible to make any judgments based on photos of different screens, in different situations, using different cameras. The best you can do is a side-by-side comparison in one photo. While it is true that the camera may not capture the side-by-side accurately either, at least the shortcomings of the camera will be equally applied to both screen samples.

In side-by-side comparisons there is also the issue of the projector being calibrated to favour one sample over the other. This is particularly true if the two samples are significantly different in shade. In that case the best you can do is take two photos. One with the projector calibrated for the left sample, and one with the projector calibrated for the right sample.

I think there is some validity in your attempt to see how well a projector can be calibrated to a less than ideal screen surface, such as a common taupe/tan wall paint. The problem is you have no control to compare to. Only you can do this comparison and any discrepancies between the neutral grey screen sample and the tan wall may be difficult or even impossible to capture in a photo.

It wasnt just the tan wall I even tried it on my BD to get the freckles to show up on the Camera and i couldnt do it.

the Camera couldnt process that contrast level matched with the Lighting in the room and also keep the detail.
I am confident that if i had a better camera i could do it ...
Time will tell.
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post #198 of 201 Old 05-20-2011, 04:41 PM
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Have you done any experimenting with the black/silver combination?
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post #199 of 201 Old 05-20-2011, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Have you done any experimenting with the black/silver combination?

No thats something i want to do next ,
But i would use Regular roll on paint and not sprayed...
But i think it would have the same affect to absorb ambient light
but that would be a very good test....

I would use more black and less silver...
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post #200 of 201 Old 05-25-2011, 04:26 PM
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post #201 of 201 Old 05-25-2011, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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and heplful
THANKS

Thats actually what my wife said to me today....lol
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