The Official RS-MaxxMudd V.2 Mix - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 872 Old 03-07-2015, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
^^^Now I know what to use for test-footage when trying any newly rolled screens..neat.
I prefer "Arial America" and the blue skies to Hockey, but yeah....many do attest to Hockey being a reference by which to judge both inconsistencies in paint application as well as paint-induced artifacts (graininess)
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post #812 of 872 Old 04-10-2015, 09:30 AM
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Hello all. First thanks to MM and PB for all the time and dedication to help all of us out. It is duly impressive!

I decided to go with a projector in my living room. There is obviously ambient light however with the blinds closed and lights off, even on a sunny day, it isn’t overly bright. My walls are light brown/tan and I have white vaulted ceilings.

I bought and mounted an Epson 8345. I installed it about 7’ from the floor on the wall behind my couch. It throws 13’ to the wall where the screen is. The screen is about 90” and 16:9 ratio. Possibly foolishly from reading the first half of all the pages of these thread I decided on the standard RS-MaxxMudd V2.5. I bought the paint and materials and got started. The substrate I chose was thrifty white board. I bought two since they are cheap and I figured I might screw the first one up and this may save me time of re-sanding to start fresh. Well I was right but underestimated my inability to follow directions and messed both of them up, however I got a little closer on the second try. I made some obvious mistakes on the first one by not remembering what I had read correctly. The second try is not as obvious to me as to what I did wrong. I did go ahead and vecro the screen to the wall but I do have a grainy picture likely due to orange peel. See pics. I’ll try and explain the steps I did and maybe someone can point out the things I did wrong.

1. Mixed Zinsser bullseye primer, using a NON squirrel cage mixing attachment on my hand drill, with I’d guess about 20% water. Poured through strainer to check viscosity. (I couldn’t find the exact squirrel cage attachment at two different hardware stores locally so I purchased the propeller looking mixer attachment.) <<<<< MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF MY ISSUES???
2. Set TWB on some 2x4s set on their side and propped the panel up against some tall heavy boxes for painting. Temporarily glued some cardboard to the back to give myself a 6" or so border all around the screen to assist in even coverage.
3. On un-sanded raw TWB painted 3 (maybe 4, can’t remember) duster coats of primer with a Wagner PaintReady HVLP gun. Trigger pull flow limited dial about a half turn or so open, past where it was completely shutting off the flow. This seemed like the least amount of paint I could apply and still have what seemed to be a fine mist of paint. Waited about an hour between coats with a space heater blowing warm air on the panel between coats. Ambient temp with the heater on in my garage was probably 70F. I used fairly fast around 3’/sec passes with 70% overlap at about 14” away, but I did VERTICAL passes. I read now that I probably should have done horizontal passes. <<<<< MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF MY ISSUES???
4. Did NOT sand primed surface at any time. I can’t honestly say if it was baby butt smooth before starting on top coats. <<<<< MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF MY ISSUES???
5. Mixed the V2.5 standard ingredients, except at half ratio of everything since I didn’t think I had a big enough container. 8oz silver, 8oz white pearl, 6oz Behr 1050 UPW flat, 7oz ultimate poly. Matte, 14oz filtered water. Ended up having to add 4oz of water to get the correct flow rate through the strainer. 10oz caused it to flow a little too slow versus the MM videos I saw posted in this thread. I ended up doing another half amount mix several coats in to finish the panel. I may have not needed to because I do have a lot remaining.
6. Applied the maxxmudd mix using the same methods described in 2 and 3 above. I ended up doing 9 coats spaced out over 3 days with no less than an hour between coats using the space heater between actual paint application. I always poured the maxxmadd through a strainer before application and the viscosity seemed to match what I saw in the videos. I cleaned out the gun and nozzle between every coat, spraying paint thinner through it and wiping it down.
7. Trimmed it out with an 1 ¼” of some black velvet tape I had left over from my last diy screen (silverscreen) from years ago, then through some Velcro on the back and on the wall.
The problem is after I fired up the projector the picture is slightly grainy, probably from the fact the methods In used didn’t apply the paint down smoothly enough.

So my guess at the biggest culprit is that I should have sanded the primed surface after 2 or 3 coats, then applied one more duster primer coat, then applied the top coat layers.

Anyone care to critique my methods mentioned above?
Was the standard maxxmudd v2.5 a good choice for my application?
The finished product is a medium gray. I think I read that it should be more white. Did I mix it wrong?
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post #813 of 872 Old 04-10-2015, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
Hello all. First thanks to MM and PB for all the time and dedication to help all of us out. It is duly impressive!

I decided to go with a projector in my living room. There is obviously ambient light however with the blinds closed and lights off, even on a sunny day, it isn’t overly bright. My walls are light brown/tan and I have white vaulted ceilings.

I bought and mounted an Epson 8345. I installed it about 7’ from the floor on the wall behind my couch. It throws 13’ to the wall where the screen is. The screen is about 90” and 16:9 ratio. Possibly foolishly from reading the first half of all the pages of these thread I decided on the standard RS-MaxxMudd V2.5. I bought the paint and materials and got started. The substrate I chose was thrifty white board. I bought two since they are cheap and I figured I might screw the first one up and this may save me time of re-sanding to start fresh. Well I was right but underestimated my inability to follow directions and messed both of them up, however I got a little closer on the second try. I made some obvious mistakes on the first one by not remembering what I had read correctly. The second try is not as obvious to me as to what I did wrong. I did go ahead and vecro the screen to the wall but I do have a grainy picture likely due to orange peel. See pics. I’ll try and explain the steps I did and maybe someone can point out the things I did wrong.

1. Mixed Zinsser bullseye primer, using a NON squirrel cage mixing attachment on my hand drill, with I’d guess about 20% water. Poured through strainer to check viscosity. (I couldn’t find the exact squirrel cage attachment at two different hardware stores locally so I purchased the propeller looking mixer attachment.) <<<<< MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF MY ISSUES???
2. Set TWB on some 2x4s set on their side and propped the panel up against some tall heavy boxes for painting. Temporarily glued some cardboard to the back to give myself a 6" or so border all around the screen to assist in even coverage.
3. On un-sanded raw TWB painted 3 (maybe 4, can’t remember) duster coats of primer with a Wagner PaintReady HVLP gun. Trigger pull flow limited dial about a half turn or so open, past where it was completely shutting off the flow. This seemed like the least amount of paint I could apply and still have what seemed to be a fine mist of paint. Waited about an hour between coats with a space heater blowing warm air on the panel between coats. Ambient temp with the heater on in my garage was probably 70F. I used fairly fast around 3’/sec passes with 70% overlap at about 14” away, but I did VERTICAL passes. I read now that I probably should have done horizontal passes. <<<<< MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF MY ISSUES???
4. Did NOT sand primed surface at any time. I can’t honestly say if it was baby butt smooth before starting on top coats. <<<<< MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF MY ISSUES???
5. Mixed the V2.5 standard ingredients, except at half ratio of everything since I didn’t think I had a big enough container. 8oz silver, 8oz white pearl, 6oz Behr 1050 UPW flat, 7oz ultimate poly. Matte, 14oz filtered water. Ended up having to add 4oz of water to get the correct flow rate through the strainer. 10oz caused it to flow a little too slow versus the MM videos I saw posted in this thread. I ended up doing another half amount mix several coats in to finish the panel. I may have not needed to because I do have a lot remaining.
6. Applied the maxxmudd mix using the same methods described in 2 and 3 above. I ended up doing 9 coats spaced out over 3 days with no less than an hour between coats using the space heater between actual paint application. I always poured the maxxmadd through a strainer before application and the viscosity seemed to match what I saw in the videos. I cleaned out the gun and nozzle between every coat, spraying paint thinner through it and wiping it down.
7. Trimmed it out with an 1 ¼” of some black velvet tape I had left over from my last diy screen (silverscreen) from years ago, then through some Velcro on the back and on the wall.
The problem is after I fired up the projector the picture is slightly grainy, probably from the fact the methods In used didn’t apply the paint down smoothly enough.

So my guess at the biggest culprit is that I should have sanded the primed surface after 2 or 3 coats, then applied one more duster primer coat, then applied the top coat layers.

Anyone care to critique my methods mentioned above?
Was the standard maxxmudd v2.5 a good choice for my application?
The finished product is a medium gray. I think I read that it should be more white. Did I mix it wrong?
Pretty much every time you said "maybe this is one of my issues" you were right. The biggest problem may have been one you didn't identify, namely cleaning the gun by spraying paint thinner through it. These are latex paints and they should be cleaned up with water only! Paint thinner is not soluble in the paint and can cause problems. What you ought to do is remove the trim, sand light all over the screen with a large fine sanding sponge using large light strokes until the surface is smooth. Then spray two or three more duster coats horizontally with 70% overlap and starting and finishing each pass beyond the edge of the screen. I think the screen color is about right, but you may want to wait for MM Man or PB Maxx to chime in before proceeding.
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post #814 of 872 Old 04-10-2015, 02:55 PM
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I poured the good paint out of the gun reservoir back into my paint bucket. Then I poured a couple ounces of paint thinner into the gun reservoir and added a few ounces of water reattached it to the gun and sprayed it all out into a safe area. After that I completely wiped out the reservoir and outside of the gun. The gun then sat for an hour drying before being refilled with good paint. Do you think this still could be my main issue?
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post #815 of 872 Old 04-10-2015, 03:01 PM
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The only large sanding sponge I could find at Lowe's was a 9 inch that says fine/medium sponge. To be safe I also got 320 and 220 4.5 inch sponges. Which do you think would be best?
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post #816 of 872 Old 04-10-2015, 04:45 PM
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9"er

Use the Fine Side

........with a light "Kiss" of a touch of pressure, and you Palm distributing pressure equally over the bulk of the Sponge's surface.

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post #817 of 872 Old 04-10-2015, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
I poured the good paint out of the gun reservoir back into my paint bucket. Then I poured a couple ounces of paint thinner into the gun reservoir and added a few ounces of water reattached it to the gun and sprayed it all out into a safe area. After that I completely wiped out the reservoir and outside of the gun. The gun then sat for an hour drying before being refilled with good paint. Do you think this still could be my main issue?
Did you not read ahajr143's posted reply?


You DO NOT use Paint Thinner when using Water based paints! You only use water, and you cannot effectively glean the gun by spraying water or watered down paint through it.
It must be disassembled and rinsed out, thoroughly.

Also, using the newer Rust-Oleum Metallic paints, the Silver creates a darker mix than did the Liquitex. As such it's advisable to add 50% more UPW to the other ratio amounts of the mix.

Standard RS-MaxxMudd can indeed produce a more grainy look now that the Mix is darker, because there is now more of an observable difference between the darker Grey base and the light metallic Mica particles

BTW, what HVLP Gun are you using?

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post #818 of 872 Old 04-10-2015, 10:16 PM
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I'm using a Wagner paintready.
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post #819 of 872 Old 04-11-2015, 04:44 AM
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I'm using a Wagner paintready.
To be more specific, Wagner model 0529017. $119 from home depot.
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post #820 of 872 Old 04-11-2015, 06:14 AM
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To be more specific, Wagner model 0529017. $119 from home depot.
Too bad, that.

You should have gotten this one...for less money, because it also comes with a "Fine Finish" head.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-Pa...9003/203474760

The one you have is more intended for just applying thicker Latex Wall paints. "WATER BASED" Paint, BTW.

If you have not had it for more than 30 days, return it as being "unacceptable and unusable" for your purpose.
Was it Store Bought or off the Web?

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post #821 of 872 Old 04-11-2015, 06:22 AM
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I bowed an anest Iwata lph?400 from a friend. He says he thinks it has a 1.4 mm orifice in it. I have yet to verify that. If this is true will this gun work much better? What pressure should I run it at?
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post #822 of 872 Old 04-11-2015, 06:56 AM
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I bowed an anest Iwata lph?400 from a friend. He says he thinks it has a 1.4 mm orifice in it. I have yet to verify that. If this is true will this gun work much better? What pressure should I run it at?

It would indeed work better if it does have a 1.4 mm Needle.

However to use such a Compressor fed Gun for fine detail finishing, you must be certain of "ALL" of the following being done or in place:

  • You absolutely must use a Water / Rust Filter located at the outlet of the Tank.
  • The Compressor itself must be at least 25 gallons (more preferably)
  • Ideally there will be two Regulators, one at the Gun and the one on the Tank.
  • Set the Tank for a Recharge cycle that kicks in when ever the pressure get to 90 psi
  • Set the Gun's regulator to 40 psi
  • The Fluid Control Knob should be set to just below "Full Open"
  • The Pressure Control Knob is set the same.
  • Practice...PRACTICE...PRACTICE !!!


...........better still, exchange the one Wagner for the other and bypass all the above crappeola, all of which is why the use of Electric Airless HVLP Guns have been standard since 2005-6

I personally own 3 expensive HVLP Guns, 200' of Rubber Hose, an Air Dryer system, Water / Rust Filter, and a 5.5 hp 32 Gallon Compressor.

The last 9 years it has sat unused in my Barn storage area except for pumping up Air into Car Tires and running the occasion Air Tool.

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post #823 of 872 Old 04-11-2015, 11:36 AM
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The cheapest finishing style electric gun home depot had in my store was this one. I bought it but haven't opened it yet. I assume the finishing head on this this will work well?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-Fl...8?N=5yc1vZartt

Between coats how should I clean the gun?
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post #824 of 872 Old 04-11-2015, 02:54 PM
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The cheapest finishing style electric gun home depot had in my store was this one. I bought it but haven't opened it yet. I assume the finishing head on this this will work well?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-Fl...8?N=5yc1vZartt

Between coats how should I clean the gun?
It will work...but it's too expensive and the Tip is still a 1.6 mm size.

If you gonna take the one back and get one, get this'n, for 1/2 price.or less than 1/2 price.
http://www.amazon.com/1000ml-Electri...iglink20246-20

Or for the best choice, this'n,
http://www.amazon.com/Earlex-0HV2901.../dp/B00K26SJ5U

........with a Accessory 1.0 mm tip direct from Earlex: 1-888-783-2612
Call and ask for Direct sales and ask for the 1.0 Needle and Nozzle Kit for the 2901 Spray Station.

Check your local Lowes for stock on the 2901. You'll still need to get the 1.0 mm Needle conversion kit direct from Earlex.

Even with the purchase of the extra Needle and paying the price for the 2901 as listed, you will still come in at or under the price of the Wagner, but the Earlex is the Bomb.

It's what I use these days....if that matters.

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post #825 of 872 Old 04-14-2015, 09:22 AM
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If I'm dropping back and punting, which I am, should I try and find a place to get some sintra instead of this TWB? Anyone know of a place of a way to look up somewhere to get some Sintra near Harrison, OH or Lawrenceburg, IN?

When I start over the general steps will be:
1. Spray 3 duster coats of primer. Between each coat wait an hour and also clean gun by spraying water thru it and wiping it down. Between 2nd and 3rd coats of primer, lightly sand smooth.
2. Spray 7-8 duster coats of paint mix. Between each coat wait an hour and also clean gun by spraying water thru it and wiping it down. If applied properly, no sanding required. Finished product should be free of any voids, bumps, or any other texture. To the naked eye it should look completely smooth.

Correct?

Thanks again for everything. And MM, thanks for being patient with me and in the process saving me some money. I returned those Wagner guns and ordered the $57 1mm gun from Amazon.
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post #826 of 872 Old 04-14-2015, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
If I'm dropping back and punting, which I am, should I try and find a place to get some sintra instead of this TWB? Anyone know of a place of a way to look up somewhere to get some Sintra near Harrison, OH or Lawrenceburg, IN?

When I start over the general steps will be:
1. Spray 3 duster coats of primer. Between each coat wait an hour and also clean gun by spraying water thru it and wiping it down. Between 2nd and 3rd coats of primer, lightly sand smooth.
2. Spray 7-8 duster coats of paint mix. Between each coat wait an hour and also clean gun by spraying water thru it and wiping it down. If applied properly, no sanding required. Finished product should be free of any voids, bumps, or any other texture. To the naked eye it should look completely smooth.

Correct?

Thanks again for everything. And MM, thanks for being patient with me and in the process saving me some money. I returned those Wagner guns and ordered the $57 1mm gun from Amazon.
If you paint on Sintra or equivalent you won't need the primer.
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post #827 of 872 Old 04-14-2015, 06:24 PM
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Does primer hold noticeably better onto thrifty whiteboard compared to the SF mix?

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #828 of 872 Old 04-14-2015, 08:05 PM
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Does primer hold noticeably better onto thrifty whiteboard compared to the SF mix?
Only a Primer such as "Gripper" Primer by Glidden, a primer specifically intended for use on such smooth surfaces would have a superior adhesion to a Paint such as Silver Fire or RS-MaxxMudd when either are Dusted on.

Dusting, by the virtue of it being a method by which paint is applied in small amounts that are in fact tiny individual droplets of paint that have the ability to dry and cure quickly, allows for more individualized adhesion.

The myriad of tiny, dried bumps in turn act as footholds for subsequent other layers.

Beyond that, the properties of the paint itself come into play. Glidden's Gripper Primer has additives that add to it's adhesion ability. Silver Fire and RS-MaxxMudd have high quality Acrylic Latex combined with Polyurethane. The dilution of those Mixes, effected by adding Water, allows for even more rapid evaporation of the liquid aspect of the paint mixes, causing more rapid drying and shrinkage when such is applied very sparsely (via Dusting) Such action is what constitutes the level of adesion any such coating obtains.

Of course applying "Gripper" via Dusting will make it all the more effective. I myself have forgone the use of "Gripper" on smoother surfaces such as TWH, and Enamel Coated Aluminum Sheets, because I have observed the ability of the paints I use to adhere well to such surfaces when applied via Dusting.

However, those who have less confidence in my own observance, and who want / or need a higher degree of durability can be well served by applying 3 light coats of "Gripper" to a surface such as TWH or other slick Hard boards.....especially if the surface needs a bit of enhancement or repair of blemishes.

In the end, one could use any good Primer via Dusting and accomplish much...if not all the same purpose. But if one is to literally "buy into" the performance claims of a Primer such as "Glidden's Gripper" (...it all seems to revolve around that name, eh? ) then obviously it would be the Primer of choice to use.

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post #829 of 872 Old 04-15-2015, 12:40 AM
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So a primer-free TWB or Sintra would be viable while allowing the initial sanding to be a non-issue. It'd become dustX5~7, light-sand/knockdown, dustX2..done (with appropriate drying and cleaning between layers)?

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #830 of 872 Old 04-15-2015, 02:14 AM
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Yes.....

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post #831 of 872 Old 04-19-2015, 06:07 AM
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Anyone know of a place or a way to look up somewhere to get some Sintra near Harrison, OH or Lawrenceburg, IN?
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post #832 of 872 Old 04-19-2015, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
Anyone know of a place or a way to look up somewhere to get some Sintra near Harrison, OH or Lawrenceburg, IN?
Hang on......if it can be done, it's about to happen.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #833 of 872 Old 04-19-2015, 06:49 AM
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.................viola.

Piedmont Plastics

Cincinnati
10880 Kenwood Rd Bldg D Cincinnati, OH 45242-2812
Phone ...... 513.733.9200
Toll Free .. 800.450.7898

Their location is on the northeast side of town, close by the junction of Hwy 275 & Hwy 71

That puts it a little closer to Harrison than Larwenceburg

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post #834 of 872 Old 04-19-2015, 09:04 AM
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Thanks much!
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post #835 of 872 Old 04-19-2015, 10:41 AM
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phred_t,

If you contact me via PM I might be able to get you a "best price" from Piedmont.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #836 of 872 Old 04-23-2015, 04:13 PM
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Well maybe I belong on the short bus...I'm starting to feel that way.

Just had my buddy from work haul the new pieces to TWB (the location for Sintra was too far to be able to talk anyone into driving to and I don't own a truck) to my house. I connected up my new ARKSEN $57 amazon sprayer and after my first coat attempted to remove the paint canister to clean and spray water through the gun. The cast aluminum gun piece has arrows cast into the flange that mate to the paint canister marking the direction for "open" and close". Without thinking I twisted the part of the gun with the marking on it in the direction of "open". I felt it give slightly. I look down to see I managed to break off a piece of the dual oval cast aluminum gun piece that mates to the pickup tube. After disassembly and further inspection it turns out the direction arrows are backwards, or at least the way I see them. The arrows apparently aren't meant for the piece they are cast into, they instead are meant for the paint bowl.

I managed to get the odd shaped o-ring back in place and it seems to be limping along. I posted this so hopefully no one else makes the same mistake. Any chance the 3rd party amazon seller "OneBigOutlet" gives me a rufund?
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post #837 of 872 Old 04-23-2015, 05:06 PM
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If you haven't had it 30 days, ask Amazon for a replacement because of a defect.

Just don't tell them the defect was you.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #838 of 872 Old 04-23-2015, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Hang on......if it can be done, it's about to happen.
I've always been curious as to what Sintra looks like but have never seen it. Where can one go to find a small sample of Sintra to see what it looks like?? I know it has a satin finish to it but out side of that, zilch.
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post #839 of 872 Old 04-23-2015, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post
I've always been curious as to what Sintra looks like but have never seen it. Where can one go to find a small sample of Sintra to see what it looks like?? I know it has a satin finish to it but out side of that, zilch.
It's finish isn't really a Satin, just a very, very low amount of sheen, almost non existent really.

You can see Sintra or the equivalent at any Piedmont or Laird Plastics Supplier's location

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #840 of 872 Old 04-24-2015, 02:01 PM
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Well I just applied the 3rd coat with the 1mm Arksen and I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong. To my eye, and to the best of my recollection, it doesn't look much different than the 3rd coat did using the Wagner. Every 8-10" there are larger dots. I have the trigger pull limiter dialed almost all the way down where it just hardly puts out any paint in an attempt to "dust". Is it possible I have it turned down too low that it is causing it to sputter?

See attached. Does that even look remotely close to what it should after the 3rd coat?
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