The Official RS-MaxxMudd V.2 Mix - Page 29 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 870 Old 04-24-2015, 02:30 PM
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The third-coats I've seen using the recent super-light dusters look almost like the reverse of that picture..more coverage than gaps or a fairly even mix of the two. Yours looks like a very light first-coat still, so I'd bet the trigger is supposed to be dialed much higher.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #842 of 870 Old 04-24-2015, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The third-coats I've seen using the recent super-light dusters look almost like the reverse of that picture..more coverage than gaps or a fairly even mix of the two. Yours looks like a very light first-coat still, so I'd bet the trigger is supposed to be dialed much higher.
Well dialing the trigger just about a turn or maybe a turn and a half higher worked terribly. Looks like I'm on my way to going 0-3. This really is turning into one of the most frustrating DIY tasks I've taken on. I guess I've found a way to make a really easy task hard. Is there someplace where all the directions and/or tips exists rather than coming through pages and pages and pages of forum threads? I'm sure if it's as easy as everyone says I'm doing some things fundamentally wrong.

I made one pass across the top with the dial out more and got terrible results starting the 4th coat. The remainder of the 4th coat I did with it turned down to where I had it before.

See attached.
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post #843 of 870 Old 04-24-2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
Well I just applied the 3rd coat with the 1mm Arksen and I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong. To my eye, and to the best of my recollection, it doesn't look much different than the 3rd coat did using the Wagner. Every 8-10" there are larger dots. I have the trigger pull limiter dialed almost all the way down where it just hardly puts out any paint in an attempt to "dust". Is it possible I have it turned down too low that it is causing it to sputter?

See attached. Does that even look remotely close to what it should after the 3rd coat?
Your doing it wrong. Open up the Gun so that it is at full output, then do the dusting from 12" to 14" and at 3' per second.

You starving the Gun and barely spitting out wee little droplets of paint.

The Top part of the 4th coat probably looks like what your 1st coat should have.

Something like this "enlarged" 1st coat.



Normal size:



Dude...ya gotta be patient, it'll take 4 correctly done dusters before the "spottiness starts to fill in.
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To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com

Last edited by MississippiMan; 04-24-2015 at 04:28 PM.
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post #844 of 870 Old 04-26-2015, 07:41 AM
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See attached. Am I a lost cause?

First pic is just after light sanding of the 6th coat using the fine side of a 9" drywall sanding sponge.

Second pic is a closeup after the sanding.

Third pic is just after the 7th coat.
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post #845 of 870 Old 04-26-2015, 10:01 AM
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Your paint is not thin enough if after two more successive coats you still are only getting small droplests and no "fill".

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #846 of 870 Old 04-26-2015, 10:34 AM
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Anyone have a closeup pic of a correctly finished sprayed screen?

I'm on my third attempt and it's not looking as smooth and feature-less as my second did...and the second had lots of noticeable graininess. I don't even want to think about the amount of time I've invested in trying to get this correct in the last three weeks...
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post #847 of 870 Old 04-26-2015, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
Anyone have a closeup pic of a correctly finished sprayed screen?

I'm on my third piece of substrate and thus my "third" attempt and it's not looking as smooth and feature-less as my second did...and the second had lots of noticeable graininess. I don't even want to think about the amount of time I've invested in trying to get this correct in the last three weeks...
Attached is the surface of my "gen 2" screen shot from about 12" away with my iphone.

The second pic is where I'm at on my 3rd gen screen after 30 minutes of dry time of my 9th coat also shot from about 12". I've let all my coats dry a minimum of 1 hour with assistance of a small space heater in my garage. I live in southern Indiana.

Thanks for the advise MM. I have always needed to add more water to my mix than the starting point in the recommended mix from the first post. I believe where I have been form the start is about 20% more water to get it to run through the strainers like shown in the videos you posed. I guess it's possible I'm not pouring as fast as it looks like you are thus I think I'm thin enough but not in actuality?
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post #848 of 870 Old 04-26-2015, 12:43 PM
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Question for those with Sony HW40ES projector....how is the image on this screen with the Reference preset calibration. I would like to know how the image looks on this screen without any additional tweaking to the settings.

Can someone pls post some screenshots of an image in Reference mode and your calibrated mode (if it was needed). Thanks!
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post #849 of 870 Old 04-27-2015, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ugotvijay View Post
Question for those with Sony HW40ES projector....how is the image on this screen with the Reference preset calibration. I would like to know how the image looks on this screen without any additional tweaking to the settings.

Can someone pls post some screenshots of an image in Reference mode and your calibrated mode (if it was needed). Thanks!
One can but hope your request finds exactly the person able to do so. It's a roll of the dice.

Excepting that, many other PJs have the Reference 709 mode, and in that, any such opinion might be sufficient for you to consider.

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post #850 of 870 Old 04-27-2015, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
One can but hope your request finds exactly the person able to do so. It's a roll of the dice.

Excepting that, many other PJs have the Reference 709 mode, and in that, any such opinion might be sufficient for you to consider.
Worth a shot

At least I have seen one user in this thread with that Sony projector. Perhaps I should re-phrase my question to how much of tweaking required to get the colors right with this screen paint.

Is it easy to get the accurate colors or one should settle with a bit of compromise, to enjoy the other benefits.
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post #851 of 870 Old 04-27-2015, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ugotvijay View Post
Worth a shot

At least I have seen one user in this thread with that Sony projector. Perhaps I should re-phrase my question to how much of tweaking required to get the colors right with this screen paint.

Is it easy to get the accurate colors or one should settle with a bit of compromise, to enjoy the other benefits.
It is easy.
Very easy.
How easy?

With both Silver Fire and RS-MaxxMudd LL, several owners with varied PJs have stated that the only thing they had to adjust was "Brightness" when using the Best Modes of their respective Projectors.

Both paints are extremely close to neutral, regardless of the shade of Grey chosen.

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post #852 of 870 Old 04-28-2015, 03:09 PM
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Anyone have a closeup pic of a correctly finished sprayed screen? Show off your paint jobs!
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post #853 of 870 Old 04-30-2015, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
Anyone have a closeup pic of a correctly finished sprayed screen? Show off your paint jobs!
Did you finally get it down right phred_t and get your screen finished??
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post #854 of 870 Old 04-30-2015, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
It's finish isn't really a Satin, just a very, very low amount of sheen, almost non existent really.

You can see Sintra or the equivalent at any Piedmont or Laird Plastics Supplier's location
Hey MississippiMan, I've noticed that at Lowe's, where the section of the store is that they have random signs you can buy, all the signs are pretty much plastered on these white, flexible hard substrates. Is that Sintra??
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post #855 of 870 Old 05-01-2015, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post
Hey MississippiMan, I've noticed that at Lowe's, where the section of the store is that they have random signs you can buy, all the signs are pretty much plastered on these white, flexible hard substrates. Is that Sintra??
Probably not.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #856 of 870 Old 05-01-2015, 09:35 AM
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Did you finally get it down right phred_t and get your screen finished??
Down right? Unknown. I haven't been able to find anyone to show me close up pics of what the surface looks like on a correctly finished screen. I've got two completed screens that have relatively smooth (unknown how smooth they need to be) surfaces, but unwatchable graininess. My 2nd and 3rd screens aren't my any means glass or mirror smooth but I feel like I couldn't have been more robotic or exacting about the motions I made to apply the paint. For the second screen, as it turns out, I was applying the paint TOO lightly. Apparently the droplets on my second screen were TOO small. That may explain why it took me like 11 coats to get even smooth coverage. When I got that screen done I knew I had it licked, because to my eye it looked great. WRONG. I used the strainers to verify viscosity, used the 1mm gun (on the third screen), payed close attention to the distance I sprayed from, and even had my girlfriend run a stopwatch (rather than count in my head like I did on the first two screens) for all but one of the very last coats to verify I was at 3' per second (on the third screen).

I ran out of paint after my third 90" screen and gave up. I spent wayyyyyyy too much time on this.

Odd. The only thing I've heard is crickets since asking twice for surface finish picture examples. There isn't a single person with a pic from 12" and say one from 6"????
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post #857 of 870 Old 05-01-2015, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
Down right? Unknown. I haven't been able to find anyone to show me close up pics of what the surface looks like on a correctly finished screen. I've got two completed screens that have relatively smooth (unknown how smooth they need to be) surfaces, but unwatchable graininess. My 2nd and 3rd screens aren't my any means glass or mirror smooth but I feel like I couldn't have been more robotic or exacting about the motions I made to apply the paint. For the second screen, as it turns out, I was applying the paint TOO lightly. Apparently the droplets on my second screen were TOO small. That may explain why it took me like 11 coats to get even smooth coverage. When I got that screen done I knew I had it licked, because to my eye it looked great. WRONG. I used the strainers to verify viscosity, used the 1mm gun (on the third screen), payed close attention to the distance I sprayed from, and even had my girlfriend run a stopwatch (rather than count in my head like I did on the first two screens) for all but one of the very last coats to verify I was at 3' per second (on the third screen).

I ran out of paint after my third 90" screen and gave up. I spent wayyyyyyy too much time on this.

Odd. The only thing I've heard is crickets since asking twice for surface finish picture examples. There isn't a single person with a pic from 12" and say one from 6"????
It might be a bit tough to get some completed RSMM screen posted since most seem to go the Silver fire rout. Though i haven't done a RSMM screen and only done Silver fire, once done the screens carry the same texture and appearance with minor variations depending on how much water was in your mix and how quickly it drys. Only thing that would be Diff is the coloring of the 2 since they are silver fire and RSMM use diff color paints in them.
Your screen is going to be smooth when done but not mirror or glass smooth. Matter of fact, you wouldn't want a screen to be that ultra smooth cause it would probably give you unwanted sheen to it and create a Hotspot. You shouldn't have the graininess your talking about that makes the image look grainy. When I get to my house in an hour or so, I will take a up close pic of my Silver Fire to give you an idea of texture and stuff then post in on here tonight. There are some completed, up close shots, of RSMM I just need to find it and post it but the up close finish of the Silver Fire from my house will give you the idea of final appearance. We'll help you get your screen right...trust me...if i can then you can..
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post #858 of 870 Old 05-01-2015, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phred_t View Post
Down right? Unknown. I haven't been able to find anyone to show me close up pics of what the surface looks like on a correctly finished screen. I've got two completed screens that have relatively smooth (unknown how smooth they need to be) surfaces, but unwatchable graininess. My 2nd and 3rd screens aren't my any means glass or mirror smooth but I feel like I couldn't have been more robotic or exacting about the motions I made to apply the paint. For the second screen, as it turns out, I was applying the paint TOO lightly. Apparently the droplets on my second screen were TOO small. That may explain why it took me like 11 coats to get even smooth coverage. When I got that screen done I knew I had it licked, because to my eye it looked great. WRONG. I used the strainers to verify viscosity, used the 1mm gun (on the third screen), payed close attention to the distance I sprayed from, and even had my girlfriend run a stopwatch (rather than count in my head like I did on the first two screens) for all but one of the very last coats to verify I was at 3' per second (on the third screen).

I ran out of paint after my third 90" screen and gave up. I spent wayyyyyyy too much time on this.

Odd. The only thing I've heard is crickets since asking twice for surface finish picture examples. There isn't a single person with a pic from 12" and say one from 6"????
Here's a up close pic of the texture of a completed Silver Fire 3.0 screen. Yes..it is silver fire but RSMM should carry the same type of finish. Thats my index finger by the way to give a general idea of how small those textures bits are:

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post #859 of 870 Old 05-01-2015, 07:45 PM
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Thought spraying would come out smoother than rolling it on.
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post #860 of 870 Old 05-01-2015, 08:29 PM
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Thought spraying would come out smoother than rolling it on.
That's a thought James. I know that you can only roll one version of the RSMM which is the lightest version. I guess if your good at rolling, that version could come out smoother with the proper foam roller then if your sprayed it. I know you can't roll the other versions cause you'll be able to see the roller marks when all said and done according to others. MississippiMan would have to chime in on that one. I used a Graco 1900 turbine unit with 1.0 needle tip to spray that pic up top....By what i've read up top he sprayed his RSMM as well, i think. You WILL get texture with a spray unit, Its UNAVOIDABLE considering that each coat laid down is basically a bunch of dots on your substrate that finally fill in all the gaps by the 7th to 8th coat. Ohhh how i wish it sprayed out more evenly like it would if you were just spraying some basic paint like a Behr flat paint of some kind. Would make it far easier sanding it down to a even thickness throughout the screen which is needed for a Light Fusion screen...HOW I WISH, LOOOL. Being able to roll all the RSMM mixtures as well as silver fire might make it easier to accomplish a Light Fusion effect giving a uniform thickness to begin with but it doesn't work that way it seems.
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post #861 of 870 Old 05-01-2015, 08:50 PM
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Can you post some pics of your screen in full? Lights on/off?
Have yet to see what this paint can do.
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post #862 of 870 Old Yesterday, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post
Here's a up close pic of the texture of a completed Silver Fire 3.0 screen. Yes..it is silver fire but RSMM should carry the same type of finish.
Not only that, but:
The middle version of MaxxMudd should be a nearly dead-on match with SilverFire NC +4oz additional flat-white.
Considering darker versions of SilverFire actually use 4oz of additional flat-white nowadays, the MaxxMudd retro/dark should land really close to SF as well...it'd be neat to know exactly which colorant amount it lands closest to.

Does anyone have both a MM and a SF?

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #863 of 870 Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM
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Really now......time to put guesswork, and misconceptions because of lack of experience put to bed. Or buried.

You guys are completely wrong....and you should know better naric_fd.

Properly applied Dusters using a 1.0 mm needle, and then properly dried will result in "LESS"{ texture than any rolling technique short of "expertly" using a Foam roller and a gloss Enamel.

If one want the most gain possible without overt sheen, spraying via Dusting is the only really sure way to get it. Use of a roller that has a low enough nap will result in both a overly smooth surface that is too non-permeable as far as surface light absorption is concerned, and it will also array the Reflective particle content in too linear a fashion. That results in too much of a "Mirror-like" reflection.

Sprayed in a Duster fashion and you instead get results such as seen in this shot of a SF-N/C macro (...essentially the same as RS-MM-LL...) that has enough detail to show a few of the unmasked Mica particles:



The same shot with a insert, with the larger shot taken at a lessor degree of Macro...:



And here is a shot of a different screen that is 4000 x 2288 macro image reduced to 900 x 505 with a section of the original size inserted within...that equates to the insert being over 400% Zoom;



All of the varied above shots are not very "bumpy"....eh?


Sometimes a Side view can show how smooth a screen can be....:



And here is a higher gain SF application painted with a 1.5 mm needle. Show as a Macro and not reduced at all it shows that a sprayed surface Dusted properly but using a larger needle will have a bit of texture, but nothing that can be described as being "bumpy".




But as I* have repeated many times, I always control the heat in a room I paint, or I use a clean fan to assist a more rapid drying between coats. Or ideally both. That shrinks those worrisome "Dots" of paint that some want to state are the inevitable result of Dusting. I beleive that the failure to pay heed to advice I have repeatedly given concerning assisting the drying process...or the use of larger than suggested needle...or both in some cases, is the real issue at hand for these few folks.

That's too bad because far more have gone down the same road, followed directions, used the proper paint thinning & spray techniques w/drying assistance, didn't fret themselves into a hot mess over the initial appearance of the 1st 3-4 Duster coats, and accordingly have accomplished the same results I have shown so many time before.

So I'll say again. Ask first before you squirt. Heed the advice give. Don't rush things.

No one wants you to accomplish a better end result than you expect more that I do.

Post Edit:

Just found this shot of the macro above with the PJ's Blue Screen hitting it.

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To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #864 of 870 Old Yesterday, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James of Az View Post
Can you post some pics of your screen in full? Lights on/off?
Have yet to see what this paint can do.
All you have to do is look at any one of the many Threads that are titled "RS-Maxx-Mudd". The screen seen below is a SF v2.5-N/C with 6 oz of UPW added to the mix.

Seeing that the room was able to be optimally painted out, I saw no reason to add Colorant. But even so, the screen shown is a full 145" diagonal 2.39:1 (...so about 23% of the light output of the Projector is masked...) and the Projector is a Panasonic PT-AE8000U

With the newer version of Silver Fire, and it's extreme adjust-ability, I myself have found no reason to "go back" to RS-MaxxMudd for any reason. However I do at time suggest the RS-MM-LL because of it's ability to be rolled, whenever I encounter some lost Soul who simply cannot or will not consider spraying as a option.

One thing to know....RS-MaxxMudd was never intended to be classified as a sterling performer in what some consider "ambient light" (full Incandescent or indirect Sunlight ) but instead as an application that effectively boosts Blacks will maintaining whites and modestly combating low levels of ambient light.

RS-MM-LL has always been considered an application that does both of the first two aforementioned but that is intended for use in Light Controlled Theaters.

All that said, here are some shots of the screen whose texture shots I posted. Some are in the dark only, others with overhead Cans on, and a couple with the rear doors of the Room wide open. many were taken with the movie in play. I also included so close ups for those who might wonder about clarity vs graininess or texture. (...those are paused...)

First up, a shot of the room that shows the amount of ambient light present in about 90% of the shots you'll see.



The room's paint scheme and Can Spots put the Screen in a very light controlled "Shadow Box"




For Ftoast....if a screen was going to show hot spotting in an image taken, it certainly would in the one just above. While a guest might say "I don't see any hot spotting"...(...and usually most people aren't asked if they do ...) the sensitivity of a CCD isn't going to let it go unnoticed. And if it does show up, it will affect performance in one manner or another.

































They look so good, it almost can bring you too tears.....yes?
























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To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com

Last edited by MississippiMan; Yesterday at 05:52 PM.
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post #865 of 870 Old Yesterday, 11:56 AM
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This paint is very shiny. not matte right? Very reflective? The above lights bounce right off
Is it painted on a wall or a screen material ?
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post #866 of 870 Old Yesterday, 11:57 AM
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This picture I was referring too
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James of Az View Post
This picture I was referring too
Oh...Oops on me. I meant to make note that I took that shot almost immediately after I had put on my last Duster Coat. If you look closely you can see the Taped bottom & top edges, and that there is no screen trim. The shot with my fingertip is a macro using Flash.

Once dry the paint has a matte look. Not absolutely "dead flat", but in no way even "satin-y".

Also, that is a painted Drywall surface. Skim-coated, sanded, primed, sanded, and the sprayed, with a light sanding between the 4th & 5th coats. 8 coats overall.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post


For Ftoast....if a screen was going to show hot spotting in an image taken, it certainly would in the one just above. While a guest might say "I don't see any hot spotting"...(...and usually most people aren't asked if they do ...) the sensitivity of a CCD isn't going to let it go unnoticed. And if it does show up, it will affect performance in one manner or another.
For some reason a few of those photos aren't showing up (looks like they weren't attached) so the only one above that I can see is the picture of the couches. I do have to admit, just like any decent N7-N8 at 1.2-1.3gain, that picture of the room's seating shows zero visible hotspotting. :P

I've seen a couple pictures of SF where there was a hotspot in the picture, but the user (who I'd expect to be more vocal than any invited guest) wasn't complaining, so I'd have to bet it wasn't visible in-person despite being seen on-camera. Was that camera-visible hotspotting affecting performance in some other manner? None that the user seemed concerned over..I suppose that's what's most important.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #869 of 870 Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM
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Wow....my screen shows 19 images attached as Thumbnails and Images/

I went back and checked / redid the links, so let me know what you can see, and what you think of the widely varied content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
. I do have to admit, just like any decent N7-N8 at 1.2-1.3gain, that picture of the room's seating shows zero visible hotspotting. :P

I've seen a couple pictures of SF where there was a hotspot in the picture, but the user (who I'd expect to be more vocal than any invited guest) wasn't complaining, so I'd have to bet it wasn't visible in-person despite being seen on-camera. Was that camera-visible hot spotting affecting performance in some other manner? None that the user seemed concerned over..I suppose that's what's most important.
I think somehow that you have things reversed. Almost any screen with a gain of over 1.2 will show Hot spotting unless it has absolutely impeccable uniformity of dispersion. Also, gain will accentuate a PJs own lack of uniformity as well.

The reason SF & RS-MM-LL does not hot spot is attributed to the Poly lending a deeper translucent depth that essentially diffuses the light, refracting it slightly...but enough to counteract the slight directionality effect of the gain. It is the Unity Gain and under screens that do not employ reflective elements that have no hot spotting....unless it's the PJ itself that grossly lacks uniformity.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Whatever you fixed with the pictures/links, it did the trick. They all show now, both in the post and at the bottom.
I think most positive gain manufacturer screens tend to hotspot because they choose to rely on slight surface gloss rather than internal reflective particles.
There's just no other good explanation for why such light-colored MFG screens can show both a visible hotspot AND suffer visible texture.
When I tried rolling N7+shades with positive gain, they turned out very uniform and surprisingly smooth despite using a super cheap 3/8" roller..there's no good reason a manufactured screen couldn't at least match that if they avoided gloss.
..their loss..

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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