The Official RS-MaxxMudd V.2 Mix - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 736 Old 11-30-2011, 06:26 PM
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Well I ordered the gun you've suggested, MissMan, as well as the velvet fabric. I'll be putting together the trim and rest of supplies this weekend and painting the thing next week. I think I'm going to go with this MaxxMudd 2.1 instead of the Silver Fire, as I lack the colorants (unless we have them by a different brand?). The room has slight ambient light generally, and white ceiling/walls. My biggest question is in regards to the Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat. We carry Sherwin Williams paints and it'd be a lot easier to use those. We have all kinds of white: Luminous White (semi-gloss and eggshell), Off White (SG & EGS), Extra White, etc. Do you know of a proper comparison? The metallic paints are Modern Masters. Thanks!
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post #182 of 736 Old 12-01-2011, 08:26 AM
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I posted my thoughts on using the MaxxMudd 2.1 in another thread, so I thought I would post them here as well, as they would probably get lost in the other thread. pb_maxxx helped me a ton along the way. Anyway, I used the version prior to the 11-11-11 update, which meant I used the liquitex white as opposed to the Behr. I also used the melamine white board from Menard's. Prior to this screen, I was using an unpainted BOC screen, that was a bit big for the image my Mitsubishi HC1500 was projecting. The white board fits the image perfectly. Before painting, I compared the melamine board with the BOC and could tell little difference in ambient light or controlled lighting conditionsl.

Anyway, once I finished applying the paint and gave it 24 hours to dry, I put in the Avatar Blu-ray, and it looked great. I then put up the 8 inch board of melamine that I sawed off in the beginning to see if I could tell what difference the paint made, if any.

With some ambient light on, which included some cans that hit the screen, I could definately see where on the plain white melamine, the light washed away some of the image. While the light washed away some of the image on the painted surface, it was not nearly as noticeable, and the improvement could easily be seen. When I turn off all the lights, the difference was only really noticeable in dark scenes, where the blacks were clearly darker, and the image had more depth.

My wife came down and even commented how great it looked, and she never indulges my video/audio purchases/projects. She and my kids both commented that the image looked 3D, and my wife also noticed the differences with the lights on, and in the black levels with the lights off.

So for anyone debating whether to paint your screen with this mix, I can definately say you will see a noticeable improvement in ambient light conditions and an improvement in dark scenes and depth in controlled lighting situations. These improvements were noticeable within 24 hours of applying the last coat of paint, and are still noticeable. After a few weeks, the improvement in the image depth is really noticeable. I have no hotspotting, sparklies or anything of that nature..

On top of that, it was fairly easy - and I am not the most handy person in the world

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post #183 of 736 Old 12-01-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The big picture View Post

Thank's MississippiMan for the reply,

"Orange Peel" Yes Sir, that is the word I was searching for, that is the type of texture the wall has.

Is there a name brand or type of spackle or tools I should use for a job like this ? Or just a big bucket of acme spackle and a trowel ?

DO Not USE SPACKLE !!!!! Use Lightweight Drywall Compound, and apply it with the largest Drywall Knife you can find.

It's kinda hard to explain Drywall finishing technique, but here's a few tips.

1. After initially applying the drywall compound, press the Knife until it's almost flat against the surface as you move it across the mud'ded areas. Press...don't scrape the surface...as this encourages a "fill", not risk dragging out previously laid down compound

2. Don't over work the Compound. It sands down easily enough.

3. As previously mentioned, don't rush things. A very thin skim coat will dry pretty quickly, but you do want it completely dry before you continue. And please note that every coating placed on top another coat take a small percentage longer a time to dry.

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post #184 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 01:36 PM
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I finally have my Rustoleum from Amazon so I will hopefully start spraying my LL tonight. I know the number of coats is scattered throughout other threads but I have not seen it mentioned in the V.2 thread except for a few special cases. I want to make sure your recommendations have not changed since I sprayed my RS-MM LL earlier this year, and I think it would be useful to have this info in the V.2 thread for other members. Could you be so kind as to recap the number of dusters and full coats along with the speed/distance/overlap for each (with the Wagner DD)? I apologize if this is already posted and I just missed it somewhere. It might be useful to post the "technique" at the beginning with the recipe.

My understanding is that there are 2 dusters with 70% overlap, 12-14" away, at about 3 ft/s, then 3 full coats being around 1 ft/s at the same distance and overlap.

Thanks
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post #185 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 01:39 PM
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That's pretty much the ticket, however many have opted to play it safe and stick entirely with Dusters, coating the surface 5-6 times.

You can slow down a bit less than prescribed and also play it safe, while still laying down enough extra paint to make a difference and escape from having to do 1-2 coats overall.

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post #186 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 02:01 PM
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What is the best way to determine when you have layed down "enough" paint. I think my first time around I just stuck to the number of recommended coats because when spraying these "near white" colors it just kind of all looks the same and can be hard to tell.
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post #187 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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mudsnowh2o;

what you are aiming for is uniformity across the entire screen.

how many coats depends on your application method (ie all dusters, dusters + full coats, etc) and your substrate.

if you are looking for a fusion gain from your substrate... you would require less coats than if you are simply using a white basecoat and allowing the RSM coating to do the vast majority for the viewing reflectivity.

in any case, if you are using RSM LL... it's better to have more coats than not enough... as LL can hold it's own with respect to white levels and requires little assistance from the white basecoat.
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post #188 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 04:11 PM
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Fusion gain is using a mirror for the substrate isn't it? Mine is going on sheetrock with a upw base coat.
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post #189 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudsnowh2o View Post

Fusion gain is using a mirror for the substrate isn't it? Mine is going on sheetrock with a upw base coat.


With the translucency of the SF paints, we call that "White Fusion".

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post #190 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 05:25 PM
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Just finished mixing a new batch of LL sauce. The new formula is more of a pearl color whereas my leftovers from the previous version is more silver. Is this normal? I normally have a dark room but will "less gray" result in worse performace if there is any light in the room?

Edit: I should note that both mixes were meticulously measured (at least I think the original version was but I know this one was). I have attached a not so good shot of the two next to each other on some white paper.
LL
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post #191 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 09:15 PM
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Mine looked like the one on the right as well.
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post #192 of 736 Old 12-05-2011, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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and it should. i've stated a number of times that all shades of v2.5 are at least 2 shades lighter in color than the other versions with an increase in gain.
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post #193 of 736 Old 12-06-2011, 07:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

and it should. i've stated a number of times that all shades of v2.5 are at least 2 shades lighter in color than the other versions with an increase in gain.

I'm sure this was quoted somewhere, but I can't find it. What is the measured gain for all three current mixes? Plus you say, "shades of v2.5." I thought the current mixes are V2.1?
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post #194 of 736 Old 12-06-2011, 09:52 PM
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MississippiMan could you look at my post #176 and let me know what you think I should do for a paint mix?

I dropped the speakers to the floor and now can run the picture to the edge of the wall. Most movies are likely going to be in 2.35 or tighter I imagine and I'm not setting this up for TV.
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post #195 of 736 Old 12-07-2011, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post

MississippiMan could you look at my post #176 and let me know what you think I should do for a paint mix?

I dropped the speakers to the floor and now can run the picture to the edge of the wall. Most movies are likely going to be in 2.35 or tighter I imagine and I'm not setting this up for TV.

Still no decision on what PJ? Even if obtrusive ambient light is ruled out, and viewing will be predominantly Movies, unless a PJ has impeccable contrast specs ( 50K:1 Native +) most can use a bit of help boosting perceived contrast. The PJ's specs, actual screen size, throw distance, and the room conditions all work together to determine the degree of Darkness / Lightness of a High Contrast Screen and what level of Gain might also need to be introduced..

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post #196 of 736 Old 12-07-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

I'm sure this was quoted somewhere, but I can't find it. What is the measured gain for all three current mixes? Plus you say, "shades of v2.5." I thought the current mixes are V2.1?

I would be curious about this too, I remember reading somewhere that the LL mix gives a gain of somewhere around 1.4 I believe, but I have not seen what the others clock in at.
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post #197 of 736 Old 12-07-2011, 06:47 PM
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I compared my matte white 1.0 gain to this LL paint and the MAX MUDD LL s much brighter. I have various samples, HP, Glass beaded, high contast and I would say in terms of brightness it was on par with the video spectra sample I have which has an advertised gain of 1.5. Not only is it better in terms of brightness compared to the matte white but colors definetly had more pop. I got confirmation that my RS45 is shipped out today so will do more testing once it arrives.
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post #198 of 736 Old 12-08-2011, 05:31 AM
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That is good to know johnifehr. I have built my screen, for now at least, as a 16:9 screen measuring 104" out of BOC which is generally accepted to have a roughly 1.0 gain from what I have read. I am getting my RS45 in the next few days and after having it a while I may build another screen that is a 2.35 screen and then I do I will probably paint it with the LL paint. This will give me a higher gain screen and allow me to run my pj in low lamp mode, but also have the extra gain to make up for lamp dimming over time.
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post #199 of 736 Old 12-08-2011, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kertofer View Post

That is good to know johnifehr......This will give me a higher gain screen and allow me to run my pj in low lamp mode, but also have the extra gain to make up for lamp dimming over time.

Don't overlook the fact that RS-MM LL also improves the perception of increased contrast, resulting in more satisfying Black levels. This is pretty unique to any screen that possesses a gain over 1.2

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post #200 of 736 Old 12-08-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Still no decision on what PJ? Even if obtrusive ambient light is ruled out, and viewing will be predominantly Movies, unless a PJ has impeccable contrast specs ( 50K:1 Native +) most can use a bit of help boosting perceived contrast. The PJ's specs, actual screen size, throw distance, and the room conditions all work together to determine the degree of Darkness / Lightness of a High Contrast Screen and what level of Gain might also need to be introduced..

Yes here's a copy and paste from #176 -- pics are on the OP
- I've also decided that if possible I want to use the entire width of the screen wall minus a few inches for a black felt border.



I just bought an Epson 8350 and I have a mostly light controlled room. I'm basically only going to watch movies at night anyhow. That's 95% of the use!

Dimensions

Screen wall (not screen size) = 116"W x 96"T
Mount wall distance = 216" - 12" to front of lens = 204"L or Throw

The room is an L shape and as you can see the surrounding walls are dark as will be the out of screen area of the back wall once complete.

Here are a couple pics.

What mix would you suggest?
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post #201 of 736 Old 12-08-2011, 06:54 AM
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That white ceiling is a kick-out issue since your determined to have as large a screen as possible. large means it will be all the more closer to the ceiling, which will oblige by reflecting all the more projected light than it otherwise would if it set down lower from that surface.

I suggest Standard formula RS-MaxxMudd, and maximizing the distance from the top of the screen and the ceiling.

Lastly, even with the side walls being dark, they are still / will be in very close proximity to the edges of the screen, so you might want to consider getting a 200" x 30" roll of ProtoStar telescope Flocking, the del-facto default material to use for absolving the absolute worst case reflections issues.
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post #202 of 736 Old 12-09-2011, 04:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

I'm sure this was quoted somewhere, but I can't find it. What is the measured gain for all three current mixes? Plus you say, "shades of v2.5." I thought the current mixes are V2.1?

Did PBMaxx abandon us??
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post #203 of 736 Old 12-09-2011, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Did PBMaxx abandon us??

I ate him.....he is .... in me.

So OK....like I'm chopped liver?

What's yer poison?

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post #204 of 736 Old 12-09-2011, 06:37 PM
 
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What is the measured gain for all three current mixes?

Per PBMaxx: Plus you say, "shades of v2.5." I thought the current mixes are V2.1?
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post #205 of 736 Old 12-11-2011, 01:24 PM
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Ok,

After reading this entire thread, I have come to this conclusion with my current setup which is as follows.

Totally light controlled 13.5w X 20l X 7.5h room very dark ceiling and font wall with lighter side and back walls with a roughly 116" diagonal 16:9 image
Epson 8350 with a throw distance of right around 14 feet.

Mostly movies with some football games thrown in with enough light on to stuff my face with goodies.
----------------------------------

RS-MaxxMudd v.2.1
(for low to moderate ambient light)

16 oz Liquitex Basics Silver
16 oz Rustoleom Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
16 oz. distilled/tap water**

----------------------------------

Have I misdirected myself?

BTW thanks to MM and PB for all the time and effort you guys put in on this and other threads. It is truly appreciated.

Regards,

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Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
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post #206 of 736 Old 12-12-2011, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Ok,

After reading this entire thread, I have come to this conclusion with my current setup which is as follows.

Totally light controlled 13.5w X 20l X 7.5h room very dark ceiling and font wall with lighter side and back walls with a roughly 116" diagonal 16:9 image
Epson 8350 with a throw distance of right around 14 feet.

Mostly movies with some football games thrown in with enough light on to stuff my face with goodies.
----------------------------------

RS-MaxxMudd v.2.1
(for low to moderate ambient light)

16 oz Liquitex Basics Silver
16 oz Rustoleom Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
16 oz. distilled/tap water**

----------------------------------

Have I misdirected myself?

BTW thanks to MM and PB for all the time and effort you guys put in on this and other threads. It is truly appreciated.

Regards,

RTROSE

Hello RTROSE,

Glad to have you aboard! I've noted your build Thread over on Dedicated Theater Design & Construction......for some time now. We are privileged to be asked to help be a defining part of your final plans.

Your choice is sound. I see on your thread how you have marked off your wall where the screen will go. Are you painting onto the Drywall or considering a substrate like Sintra? Looks to be onto Drywall.



I also note you live in S. Indiana (Indy Native here) I see the Water Conditioner. I sold hundreds of those things back when to needy Hoosiers.
Where exactly do you live? South of Bloomington? Brown County?

I might make note that your sidewalls will light up during playback of bright content. The matching ceiling / wainscot color is nice, but an extension of the darker color of the Screen Wall out each side (5') would effectively shadow-box the screen area and help considerably in maintaining a feeling of immersion. You can wait to see just how much effect it will have, but my experience with such pretty much tells me what is gonna happen. Expect that White Trim to do likewise. I know it looks good as far as being a bas relief for the other Colors, but a Theater isn't always an exercise in conventional color coordination. In the least, painting the Trim the color of the top wall portions, and darkening the walls to 60% of the ceiling's shade would go far in resoling what I see as an impending issue.

If you'd rather not do any mods to those walls, it may well be that you should consider adding 2 oz. Silver Fire Colorant to your mix to help offset any redirected reflections of PJ output.

Do you have your Mount picked out yet? (Chief RPA 168 is "De Bomb")

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post #207 of 736 Old 12-12-2011, 09:22 AM
 
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Ok, I'll ask again. What is the measured or "best guess" gain of the 3 v2.1 mixes?

Anyone? So far we got LL around 1.4.
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post #208 of 736 Old 12-12-2011, 09:36 AM
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Best guess based on careful comparisons with similarly hued Commercial screen, and using the original v1 paint components.

v2.1 Standard 1.2 gain.

v2.1 Retro is the same, or bordering on 1.3 gain, only darker, with the extra Silver content providing the bulk of the grayer appearance while keeping gain at a constant or slightly elevated level.

PB might revise these slightly upward due to the advent of the Rustoleum and Liquitex, but those figures should stand pretty true.

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post #209 of 736 Old 12-12-2011, 11:55 AM
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MMan or anyone else

Ok I just got an email back from Rustoleum and it's not for sale in Canada. (only spray cans). Is there any other tested alternative or what are the Canadian guys doing?

Also the Basics Silver I could only find in the 4oz tubes, so I bought 3 of them. Is this the normal way it comes?

The Polyacrylic MinWax is a kind of blueish can, it says it's for wood applications. Is that the right stuff?

Could you or someone do everyone a favor and add pictures of the products to the OP?

Also how would I modify the mix if I wanted more gain or better black levels ... I'm just curious what does what and how much effect it really has?
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post #210 of 736 Old 12-12-2011, 04:49 PM
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@MM,

Thanks for chiming in. I knew I spotted a little Hoosier in you! Ha! I'm actually in the Columbus area and go to the Greenwood, Indy area very frequently so I'm familiar with your old stomping grounds. Yup, I have been working on my build now for over four years so it is finally nice to be on the home stretch for sure. When I first started looking at PJ's I was smitten with the Epson Home Cinema 1080. That right there will tell you how long I have been working on this build. I was a lurker in the 8350 thread and all the positive input from you and others helped me make my decision with the 8350 and the aggressive pricing right now.

Thanks for your observations on the room colors. I knew that the lighter shades could pose a problem and the white trim was a "theater no-no", but went a head anyway. My thought was get the room done, spend some quality time doing some critical viewing to evaluate the room and work from there.

You are correct that the paint will be going directly on the drywall. I still have some prepping to do, but thought I'd go that route first then again do some changing assessing. I have been noticing a pattern there in the two build forums that version 2.0 comes rather quickly after v 1.0 is complete. DOH!

I have been searching on the mount and have come to the conclusion that you are correct about the chief mount. I saw somewhere that you recommended a specific mount and ceiling adapter to someone and directed them to Projector People I think.

Nice to hear that you visit the other forums as well, and your welcome to visit/post in my build thread anytime!

Oh, and one more thing. I have admired your signature for quite some time and the second installment in the Star Trek movies is my all time favorite the bunch. For the TV series the episode of "The trouble with Tribbles" is the best. Thanks again for your input.

Regards,

RTROSE

My (slower than molasses) HT build here.
Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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