Advice on 156" painted wall screen, 18' throw, 2500 lumens, lots of ambient light - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 53 Old 08-20-2011, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Background
I've been interested in getting a projector for some time. The main attraction is the house's 30' wide x 16' deep great room with a 15' wide alcove in the front center. The alcove is inset another 2.5'. I currently have three televisions side by side in the alcove such that the screens are all flush with the main walls of room. Football and movies are king at my place! My friends have "noted" that everything above the TV's to the ceiling (10.5' at walls, 12.5' at center of room) is a "blank white wall" perfect for a fourth projected screen above the other three"

I never start anything new with "the best that money can buy". I usually start small, learn, and then upgrade/move up as my knowledge increases. This seems especially important to me for projectors because of all the issues they present (i.e. long video cable runs, lighting, screen, etc.). I also subscribe to MississippiMan's DIFL philosophy.

What I've purchased so far
I've been lurking on this forum since my opportunity finally arrived, as it frequently does for me, from a sale at Fry's Electronics I bought a refurb Epson EX71 (720p, 2500 lumens) for a super price. Thanks to tips on this forum by MM I also picked up the Graco HV2900 refurb sprayer from GleemPaint and 12 yards of black velvet from syfabrics. I've also purchased a projector mount and 75' HDMI cable from monoprice.

Projector Distance/Image Size
I tried several positions for the projector, but what worked out best was to mount the projector at the back of great room, which is also the start of the kitchen. I have a kitchen island there with a lower ceiling and therefore easy access to power and I can move/focus/zoom the projector if necessary. The downside to this configuration is that the distance of the projector to the wall in the alcove is 18'. At this distance the screen is 156" diagonal (16:9) with maximum zoom. Not that I'm complaining, it's freakin huge and I have the room for it. The top of the image is 6" below the ceiling and the bottom is exactly to the top of the existing televisions in the alcove, making for a pretty great 4th display.

Issues, Decisions, Issues, Questions, Issues, Questions

Issue 1
Since 156" screens can't be purchased off the shelf, it seems that painting the wall or building a screen and hanging it up there are the only choices.

Decision 1
I'm pretty sure I've decided to paint the wall with Silver Fire and use black velvet to frame the screen and the sides of the alcove. Comments welcome.

Issue 2
I watch football during the day and the room has lots of ambient light from sliding glass doors on the left side of the room and bay windows on the right/back of the room. The curtains will be closed, but they are translucent and I do not want to go into cave mode during the day.

Question 2
I need to know what version of SF I need for a 156" screen with a 2500 lumen projector at 18' throw distance.

Issue 3
The Alcove wall is in great shape as to straitness (projecting on it now), but it does have the typical light texture on it (as do all the walls). Nice for walls, not so much for screens.

Question 3
What is the best way to prepare the wall for SF? Mudding the entire wall was suggested but this seems messy and a lot of work. I would prefer a painting solution to smooth it out if possible.

Issue 4
I am likely missing something

Question 4
Am I missing something?

Thanks for a great forum and any suggestions you can provide.

MOSTAU
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post #2 of 53 Old 08-21-2011, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mostau View Post

Background
I've been interested in getting a projector for some time. The main attraction is the house's 30' wide x 16' deep great room with a 15' wide alcove in the front center. The alcove is inset another 2.5'. I currently have three televisions side by side in the alcove such that the screens are all flush with the main walls of room. Football and movies are king at my place! My friends have "noted" that everything above the TV's to the ceiling (10.5' at walls, 12.5' at center of room) is a "blank white wall" perfect for a fourth projected screen above the other three"

What I've purchased so far
I've been lurking on this forum since my opportunity finally arrived, as it frequently does for me, from a sale at Fry's Electronics I bought a refurb Epson EX71 (720p, 2500 lumens) for a super price. Thanks to tips on this forum by MM I also picked up the Graco HV2900 refurb sprayer from GleemPaint and 12 yards of black velvet from syfabrics. I've also purchased a projector mount and 75' HDMI cable from monoprice.

Projector Distance/Image Size
I tried several positions for the projector, but what worked out best was to mount the projector at the back of great room, which is also the start of the kitchen. I have a kitchen island there with a lower ceiling and therefore easy access to power and I can move/focus/zoom the projector if necessary. The downside to this configuration is that the distance of the projector to the wall in the alcove is 18'. At this distance the screen is 156" diagonal (16:9) with maximum zoom. Not that I'm complaining, it's freakin huge and I have the room for it. The top of the image is 6" below the ceiling and the bottom is exactly to the top of the existing televisions in the alcove, making for a pretty great 4th display.

Hi Mostau!

Well OK then....a few questions and observations of my own, and a recommendation tossed in as well.

First off, you PJ's lens must be a bit closer than 18' from the Screen surface because my figures show the maximum throw for 156" diagonal is 17' 5"

Quote:


Issues, Decisions, Issues, Questions, Issues, Questions

Issue 1
156" is a non standard screen size

Oh I don't know about that....it's not that unusual, nor even all that big compared to say...210"s. Really though...not sure by what you mean "non standard".

Quote:


Decision 1
I'm pretty sure I've decided to paint the wall with Silver Fire and use black velvet to frame the screen and the sides of the alcove. Comments welcome.

You mean something like this....



I know...it's only a 110" diagonal Screen set back into a 110' wide x 70" tall x 16" deep box, but it's pretty much the same idea.

Quote:


Issue 2
I watch football during the day and the room has lots of ambient light from sliding glass doors on the left side of the room and bay windows on the right/back of the room. The curtains will be closed, but they are translucent and I do not want to go into cave mode during the day.

Issue....? I don't see no stinkin' issue!

Quote:


Question 2
I need to know what version of SF I need for a 156" screen with a 2500 lumen projector at 18' throw distance.

SF v2.1 4.0 (4 oz Colorant added to specified Mix) Ta got'cher self a ton of Lumens to work with. The darker SF mix will help with both the lack of Contrast that 'ol Epson "doesn't have" by delivering you deeper Blacks and better shadow detail, as well as assure you of extremely good ambient light viewing potential.

Quote:


Issue 3
The Alcove wall is in great shape as to straitness (projecting on it now), but it does have the typical light texture on it (as do all the walls). Nice for walls, not so much for screens.

Question 3
What is the best way to prepare the wall for SF? Mudding the entire wall was suggested but this seems messy and a lot of work. I would prefer a painting solution to smooth it out if possible.

Roll out/on two Normal coats of BullsEye 123 Primer, using a 3/8" nap Roller, then after the second coat is "bone dry and dusty feeling, lightly sweep sand the surface using a Medium Grit "LARGE" sanding sponge (3" x 8" x 1" Norton or 3M .....get 'em at Home depot or Lowes)

Quote:


Issue 4
I am likely missing something

Question 4
Am I missing something?

Just two things....

First, I hope that 75' long Monoprice HDMI is gonna get'ter dun.

Be sure to load the Tank.....as in a Large Glass...with Beer.

Quote:


Thanks for a great forum and any suggestions you can provide.

MOSTAU

Re-check your Throw distance, and try to settle on a screen size that allows you at least a wee bit of Focal Length. It's never good to max out the lens at either of it's focal parameters.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #3 of 53 Old 08-21-2011, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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MississippiMan,

Thanks for your advice!

Quote:


First off, you PJ's lens must be a bit closer than 18' from the Screen surface because my figures show the maximum throw for 156" diagonal is 17' 5"

You are correct so I went back and double-checked my measurements. Here's the reason.

The projector mount is at 18' but the projector does "stick out" into the great room a few inches. Also the projected image is in fact larger than 156". The image height is exactly 78" and with the 16:9 calculator that comes out to a 159" diagonal screen with a 139" width, however I am only measuring 136" actual width on the bottom (which is how I got the original 156" from the calculator). I neglected to mention that since the projector is mounted 7' from the floor (the ceiling is 8' in the kitchen) I have some keystone issues at the top and used the projectors keystone correction set to 8 to square it up. I think I may get better results if I use a shelf instead and flip the projector over. I will experiment further and let you know.


Issue 1. 156" is a non standard screen size
Quote:



Oh I don't know about that....it's not that unusual, nor even all that big compared to say...210"s. Really though...not sure by what you mean "non standard".

Sorry for my poor wording on Issue 1. I was trying to say that since 156" (now 159" ) screens can't be purchased off the shelf, it seemed that painting the wall was the best and most cost effective option (as compared to building a screen and hanging it up there).

Quote:


You mean something like this....



I know...it's only a 110" diagonal Screen set back into a 110' wide x 70" tall x 16" deep box, but it's pretty much the same idea.

Yes, I think that's exactly what I'm shooting for

Also, your response to my "perceived" ambient light issue and your SF recommendation has given me a warm fuzzy
Quote:


Issue....? I don't see no stinkin' issue!

SF v2.1 4.0 (4 oz Colorant added to specified Mix) Ta got'cher self a ton of Lumens to work with. The darker SF mix will help with both the lack of Contrast that 'ol Epson "doesn't have" by delivering you deeper Blacks and better shadow detail, as well as assure you of extremely good ambient light viewing potential.

I was thinking 4.0 myself but was scared about the brightness at that throw distance. I will go with 4.0!

Question 3
What is the best way to prepare the wall for SF?

Quote:


Roll out/on two Normal coats of BullsEye 123 Primer, using a 3/8" nap Roller, then after the second coat is "bone dry and dusty feeling, lightly sweep sand the surface using a Medium Grit "LARGE" sanding sponge (3" x 8" x 1" Norton or 3M .....get 'em at Home depot or Lowes)

Thanks, will do. I am heading out to pick up all the painting materials today!

Question 4
Am I missing something?
Quote:


Just two things....

First, I hope that 75' long Monoprice HDMI is gonna get'ter dun.

Be sure to load the Tank.....as in a Large Glass...with Beer.

I've already got the HDMI cable run loosely and have 15' to spare.
Do you have any recommendations for cable raceways? As small as possible with an adhesive backing would be great.

As to the beer, Miami Dolphins and a Stone IPA, two great tastes that go great together

Quote:


Re-check your Throw distance, and try to settle on a screen size that allows you at least a wee bit of Focal Length. It's never good to max out the lens at either of it's focal parameters.

I wish I had a little more leeway as well (At least I do have 15" to spare on each side of the alcove), but getting the projector any closer would require construction/ceiling work (and a ceiling fan to deal with as well). I'm just trying to "dip my feet" in the projector waters and get a screen up by the start of the football season at this juncture. I'll re access after Miami wins the SuperBowl
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post #4 of 53 Old 08-30-2011, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I emptied the great room and put painters plastic just about everywhere. (I have pictures, will post soon).

Tested the sprayer with some color matched wall paint and did some touch-up on the walls. Learned all about deluting and straining with the nylon mesh. The Graco works great. The walls look like new and NO overspray.

I then moved in some scaffolding, measured out the screen, blue taped it up and put more painters plastic all over the blast zone.

MY FIRST PROBLEM.

MississippiMan,

I put on the first coat of Bull's Eye, but it is not making a dent on the pattern on the wall. I AM BUMMED. There is no way the 2nd coat will be able to fill in the pattern on the wall. Do I have to resort to mudding?

My spirits are still high, I know things will work out. Any guidance appreciated.
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post #5 of 53 Old 08-31-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mostau View Post


I then moved in some scaffolding, measured out the screen, blue taped it up and put more painters plastic all over the blast zone.

MY FIRST PROBLEM.

MississippiMan,

I put on the first coat of Bull's Eye, but it is not making a dent on the pattern on the wall. I AM BUMMED. There is no way the 2nd coat will be able to fill in the pattern on the wall. Do I have to resort to mudding?

My spirits are still high, I know things will work out. Any guidance appreciated.

Keep the faith. No "sprayed on" paint can effectively fill in actual ridges and depressions inherent in a patterned texture....unless it's rolled on....and even then it might take several "heavy" coats and a lot of careful sanding.

So yeah...skimming with lightweight Drywall Compound the sectioned off area of wall to be used for the Screen surface would be the best solution. It's not hard...and the coating need not be that heavy. In fact, applying a very thin coat will allow it to dry quickly. Then apply another. Use a 14" Drywall Blade. Hold it almost horizontal when skimming. After two such coats, inspect the wall...and if looking smooth, lightly (dry) sand it with a large Medium Grit Sanding sponge using very light, sweeping strokes. Then wipe it (the area) clean with a dry cloth and add another skim coat...then sand again.

After that, unless your dealing with Texas Splatter Wall texture or Scalloped designs, you should have an excellent surface to spray apply the Bulls Eye (2 coats) and the Finish paint to.

Tip.

When skimming, often you will see a slight ridge where the edge/s of the Drywall blade leaves it's mark. Don't try to get the surface to be free of such "Blade induced" ridges. They will sand down with ease.

Remember...use a light touch with the Sanding sponge. You can always sand down excessive Mud....but once you go too far you can't make it grow back....you gotta apply more Mud.

If you would feel more comfortable about the mudding process by having a one-on-one discussion about it over the Phone, just send me a PM and either shoot me yours or I'll give you mine.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #6 of 53 Old 08-31-2011, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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MississippiMan,

Thanks for the advice. I did use the roller to apply the primer , but I knew after the first roll I would never get enough primer on the roller to take care of the pattern. Rolled the one coat anyway. The pattern is much more noticeable now that the wall white.

The closest match to my pattern is the first picture on this link http://www.drywallschool.com/textures.htm

The "knockdown", or "skip trowel" picture, although the pattern is not quite as pronounced on my wall (maybe half that depth).

I will give the drywall compound a try and post my results.
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post #7 of 53 Old 08-31-2011, 08:04 AM
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Yeow.

Well...., if the top of the texture is as smooth as the image shown in the example, your battle is halfway won. One good skim coat...a light sanding...another coat and sand and presto....a Screen surface is born!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #8 of 53 Old 09-01-2011, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally got the pictures posted.

Here's the actual wall pattern...

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...u/IMG_0125.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...u/IMG_0124.jpg

projecting on normal wall with ambient light

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...u/IMG_0104.jpg

Projecting on primed wall with normal abient light

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...u/IMG_0130.jpg

Will get started with the mudding this weekend!
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post #9 of 53 Old 09-01-2011, 05:48 PM
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Seeing is believing


Quote:
Originally Posted by mostau View Post

Finally got the pictures posted.

Here's the actual wall pattern...



Projecting on primed wall with normal ambient light





Will get started with the mudding this weekend!

Way cool news. Get'ter Dun!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #10 of 53 Old 09-02-2011, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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MississippiMan,

Thanks for making my picture links visible in the page. Still learning about that, will post that way next time.

A couple more questions,

I would like to run the Epson in Eco mode at night for movies (much quieter). Do think that will be OK with SF 2.1 4.0? Just want to be sure before I get to the mixin.

The second question is about potentially running out of paint. 159" is a big surface. I purchased 32 oz of both the Rustoleom and Polycrilic, so should I make a bigger batch using all 32 oz of those, 24 oz Silver (one more tube), 10.6 oz Titanium White (one more tube), 3.3 oz Gold? In the same vein I would also need 5.3 oz colorant and therefore 80ml water, 40ml red, 20ml green, 13.3ml blue, 6.6ml yellow, correct?

Thanks for all the help.
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post #11 of 53 Old 09-02-2011, 06:34 PM
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Run your cursor over the Thumbnail Photo and select the last listing too copy. That is the Hyperlink to place your image directly onto a Web Page.

You can only be "Boy Scout Prepared" by upping the Base/Reflective mixes by 25-50% in volume. However I suggest you either make a full 2x Colorant batch, or simply use up what the original amount is and go for that. The resulting shade will be more than capable.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

You can only be "Boy Scout Prepared" by upping the Base/Reflective mixes by 25-50% in volume.

Well technically 33.33333333% is between 25-50 , but I will heed your advice and bump the base only 25% (I would need to order the Rustoleom online and don't want to wait as NFL kickoff day is fast approaching). Will make 2x the colorant and mix in 25% more (i.e. 5oz total).
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Well I'd like to say mudding was a lot of fun, but the 80/20 rule caught me (more like 90/10 rule in this case). 90% of the wall was a breeze, however 10% had some pretty deep patterns requiring 4 coats in those areas and then several minor touch-ups. As thing go in life I really got the hang of if after I was done Will post pictures after the priming is complete.

I applied a first light coat of primer with the spray gun and will finish up the primer tomorrow.

Before I mix the SF just one more sanity check please on the version as there is no going back after this. I would like to run the Epson in Eco mode (1960 lumens) at night for movies as it is much quieter. Is that OK with my 18' throw with SF 4.0? Also if I decide to upgrade to a newer 1080p projector in the future year can I expect to find 1080p projectors with the same lumen output as my Epson that will work with 4.0? I will always have a lot of ambient light so 4.0 is what I want, but I have noticed that most current 1080p projectors have significantly less light output.

As always, any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
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post #14 of 53 Old 09-05-2011, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mostau View Post

Well I'd like to say mudding was a lot of fun, but the 80/20 rule caught me (more like 90/10 rule in this case). 90% of the wall was a breeze, however 10% had some pretty deep patterns requiring 4 coats in those areas and then several minor touch-ups. As thing go in life I really got the hang of if after I was done Will post pictures after the priming is complete.

I applied a first light coat of primer with the spray gun and will finish up the primer tomorrow.

Be sure to check your screen's surface by shining a bright light at an angle across the surface. Your looking for 'shadows', either from rises or dips. Now is the time for making small touch ups on any tiny spots that might/will pop forward when you spray the first really darker reflective coat of SF up.

But of course, that is also another reason why the first 2 coats of SF are
applied as "Dusters". The very first light coat will serve as a bellwether indicator of any areas with minor defects that manage to stay unnoticed when the surface is a bright flat white.

If you upped the quantity of your mix, then using the first Duster as a final test is going to be OK. Spot repair those blemishes with a light skim of mud, Primer over the screen again, then resume painting. You will have then achieved overcome the 98/2 hurdle, resulting in a Drywall surface that is about as perfect a Screen surface as can be humanly possible as done by a newcomer to the "art".

Quote:
Before I mix the SF just one more sanity check please on the version as there is no going back after this. I would like to run the Epson in Eco mode (1960 lumens) at night for movies as it is much quieter. Is that OK with my 18' throw with SF 4.0?

More than OK. "In the dark Viewing" is never an issue. It's really all about how "Bright" that large an image will show in ambient light. The SF will certainly make all the darker elements of the image look darker, but the lighter areas might still have trouble competing with interfering light coming in from other directions.

It's that long throw combined with the abnormally large screen size that is the mitigating factor, but if you run the PJ in Normal lamp mode in ambient light, 4.0 will do the job better than any other DIY solution at hand.

One last plea....why can you not consider shortening the Drop Rod on the Fan and placing the Pj just behind it, but far enough that the Drop Pole of the PJ doesn't get whacked? You gotta realize that what with your screen size and viewing conditions, any degree of adaptation to your circumstances is going to pay you a much larger proportional dividend than most people. The difference is actually a huge one. 4 ft. lambert between 18' and 15' throw equates to much more than you realize when size and ambient light are both to be considered into the equation.

Quote:
Also if I decide to upgrade to a newer 1080p projector in the future year can I expect to find 1080p projectors with the same lumen output as my Epson that will work with 4.0? I will always have a lot of ambient light so 4.0 is what I want, but I have noticed that most current 1080p projectors have significantly less light output.

As always, any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Well....a decision must be made here. Go for optimal performance now...or adaptable performance levels. First off though, doing everything you can to control the amount of...and direction of existing ambient light is a worthy task.

Take note of the image I posted with my arms spread wide across the screen. That Black surround is set in a full 16" deep, and is 7" wide from the edges of the screen to the Blacked out sides. You have a slight outward slant on the two Sides / Top. Simply paint those side slanted areas a dark, non reflective Color, carry that theme across the ceiling on line with the outer edge of those slanted walls, and create a darkened shadow box the screen is inset into.

You have a pre-framed area many would die for, and therein a far easier chance to optimize your non-reflective index than 99% of all others. Avail yourself of it. Doing that alone will make a huge difference.

Lastly, dropping down to 3.0 isn't going to ruin your ambient light viewing experience, but you will acquire a bit more gain. 3.0 + effective side masking like suggested will/would be a great blending of effective solutions.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #15 of 53 Old 09-07-2011, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
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MississippiMan,

First off I want to tell you how much I appreciate all the advice you are giving to myself and others on the forum. I know I am in "high maintenance" mode asking lots of questions before making my final "time to paint" decisions and you have been super helpful.

With that said, with all new experiences there will be ups and downs. After applying the first full primer coat mistakes became apparent.

Mistake 1) On my last round of mudding I over thinned the mud. This caused small bubbles to form making a "micro swiss cheese" pattern in the mud. I did not catch this until I was priming the full coat.

Mistake 2) In an attempt to correct the pattern I tried to spay a little extra primer in those areas. I overdid that causing some runs in those locations (and the extra paint did not really correct the issue)

I waited for the primer coat to dry, then removed the runs. I then remudded both the swiss cheese areas and the run repair area with unthinned mud. This worked out great and I will never thin my mud again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Be sure to check your screen's surface by shining a bright light at an angle across the surface. Your looking for 'shadows', either from rises or dips. Now is the time for making small touch ups on any tiny spots that might/will pop forward when you spray the first really darker reflective coat of SF up.

This is a great tip, I did this tonight and found still more issues so I touched up all those as well. Should be able to re prime the screen tomorrow.

I'll chalk up the paint runs as a helpful learning experience in that I only screwed up applying the primer, which was easy to correct. It was a good trial run for when I'm applying the SF to make sure that does not happen again.

Quote:


But of course, that is also another reason why the first 2 coats of SF are
applied as "Dusters". The very first light coat will serve as a bellwether indicator of any areas with minor defects that manage to stay unnoticed when the surface is a bright flat white.

If you upped the quantity of your mix, then using the first Duster as a final test is going to be OK. Spot repair those blemishes with a light skim of mud, Primer over the screen again, then resume painting. You will have then achieved overcome the 98/2 hurdle, resulting in a Drywall surface that is about as perfect a Screen surface as can be humanly possible as done by a newcomer to the "art".

Hopefully with all the extra mudding tonight I won't see anything after duster 1, but I'll keep my eyes open for it

Quote:


It's that long throw combined with the abnormally large screen size that is the mitigating factor, but if you run the PJ in Normal lamp mode in ambient light, 4.0 will do the job better than any other DIY solution at hand.

One last plea....why can you not consider shortening the Drop Rod on the Fan and placing the Pj just behind it, but far enough that the Drop Pole of the PJ doesn't get whacked? You gotta realize that what with your screen size and viewing conditions, any degree of adaptation to your circumstances is going to pay you a much larger proportional dividend than most people. The difference is actually a huge one. 4 ft. lambert between 18' and 15' throw equates to much more than you realize when size and ambient light are both to be considered into the equation.

Well I did manage to move the ceiling fan up a foot. That in itself was an experience that the "tower of terror" at Disney can't touch So now I can raise the projector 6 inches at the current location (almost 8 feet high).

As to mounting the projector behind the fan 3' closer, the problem is that I have no access to the attic on that side of the great room. The only access is on the side with the alcove. I just don't have the skills or time to figure out how to get power and HDMI to the projector at that location. I think you are correct that it's the best location, but it will have to wait for now.

Quote:


You have a slight outward slant on the two Sides / Top. Simply paint those side slanted areas a dark, non reflective Color, carry that theme across the ceiling on line with the outer edge of those slanted walls, and create a darkened shadow box the screen is inset into.

You have a pre-framed area many would die for, and therein a far easier chance to optimize your non-reflective index than 99% of all others. Avail yourself of it. Doing that alone will make a huge difference.

I was planning on doing exactly that, but with black velvet instead of paint (I bought 12 yards), so the shadow box should be as optimal as can be.

Quote:


Lastly, dropping down to 3.0 isn't going to ruin your ambient light viewing experience, but you will acquire a bit more gain. 3.0 + effective side masking like suggested will/would be a great blending of effective solutions.

Still kind of torn here, but I think I will stick with 4.0. If I get another projector, I'll mount it for sure at 15' so I'm thinking 4.0 will still be OK in that scenario.

The way things are going I likely won't be mixing the SF until Friday. I'll keep you posted. Thanks Again.
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post #16 of 53 Old 09-10-2011, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Things are finally coming together. Here's the pictures...

Mudded wall



Pattern filled with mud before sanding (this was the first mud coat of several)



Finished primed wall angle 1 (they grayish areas are actually reflections of the wall color. The screen is pure white)



Finished primed wall angle 2 (they grayish areas are actually reflections of the wall color. The screen is pure white)



The pattern is gone



Silver Fire paints



All the equipment



Will get the dusters and first full coat today.
Will likely have to wait for the 2nd full coat to tomorrow morning.

How long should I let the first full coat dry?

Anyway spirits are high again. Time to get to mixin!
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post #17 of 53 Old 09-10-2011, 01:30 PM
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30 minutes minimum dry time under good drying conditions. After 20 minutes (...and no visible sheen...) you can direct a fan (..w/clean blades...) across the surface to hasten drying.

(I use a mini-sized forced air Propane Heater. ...a true testonial to Silver FIRE...)

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #18 of 53 Old 09-10-2011, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool,

I'll wait an hour just to be safe. I live in AZ so it's pretty low humidity.

The first duster is done.

The wall looks good and I am pressing on...

Duster 1

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Looking good so far...

Duster 2

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Good news, no runs, but there is a minor issue. Near the bottom of the screen there are three "tiny" paint bumps (maybe they are mini-runs?). They are not near each other and each is about the size of a pen point so they stick out just a little bit. I tried to take a picture but they are too small. The rest of the wall is great.

Should I try to cut them off level to the rest of the wall before applying the 4th coat? They are really small and I can likely live with them, but if I can cut them off that would be great.

After coat 3

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I decided to repair 2 of the 3 paint bumps (the 3rd was insignificant) as follows.

Waited 4 hours for the paint to be VERY dry. Used a fan as well. It was dry.

VERY CAREFULLY used a clean break off utility blade to "barely" take the "very top" off of the bump. Then I used clean dry white athletic sock and simply pressed the bumps in.

The 4th coat went on well and covered the repairs just fine (halfway between a duster and normal coat).

The screen looks good so far. Will let dry overnight and post pictures tomorrow morning.

Just popped open a Kiltlifter to celebrate! Thanks for all the help.
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post #22 of 53 Old 09-11-2011, 01:54 AM
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Looks like a really nice job.

A trial run w/PJ should tell you if your really there already. Personally, I'd suggest at least one more normal coating over a completely dry surface just to be absolutely certain.

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MississippiMan,

I took you up on your advice and did one more coat with the rest of the paint. It looks pretty good!

How long should I let the screen dry before I attempt to pull off the painters tape? I don't want any damage during that stage and I'm a little nervous.

Any suggestions about mounting the velvet on the wall? I was thinking thin black Velcro.

Lastly do you know of any really long cable raceways that stick to the wall?

Thanks for all your help. I can't imagine how many defects there would have been without your advice


After Coat 5


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post #24 of 53 Old 09-11-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mostau View Post

MississippiMan,

I took you up on your advice and did one more coat with the rest of the paint. It looks pretty good!

That pretty good news. No footsteps coming up stealthily from behind this time.

Quote:


How long should I let the screen dry before I attempt to pull off the painters tape? I don't want any damage during that stage and I'm a little nervous.

I remove tape / plastic as soon as the sheen is off the paint (30% dry) Dried edges can peel, you only have to worry about sloppily removing your masking when it's still fresh.

Pull the Taped edge up/down/ and away from the side of the respective edge. The object is to pull away from the edge so you cannot have any semi-dry / died Paint pull into the desirable areas.

When the paint is fresh, you can actually just peel the tape/plastic away in quick motions that in the least still avoid having the dusty or/wet tape-plastic contact the freshly painted screen surface.

Once it's dried to any real degree, you MUST use the pull "up & away from" method.

Never ever pull straight out, or heaven help you, down and in toward the screen area.

Am I being clear enough on the point?

Quote:


Any suggestions about mounting the velvet on the wall? I was thinking thin black Velcro.

Is it to be just the velvet? If I was a'doin it, I'd wrap cut pieces of 1/8" Hardboard with the Velvet, and finish nail those nice, smooth, easily done sheets into place. They can be pried off easily if needed without ever affecting their cosmetic appeal too.

You have some acreage to cover...make the job easy for yourself. The factory edges of Thrifty White hardboard, when wrapped and then butted together, make for a invisible joint, so no worries there either.

Just do it......'nuff said.

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Lastly do you know of any really long cable raceways that stick to the wall?

Well they all are "Sectional" in design. Is this for the HDMI / AC to the PJ?
A exposed Raceway in that beautiful room with magnificent Screen?

Somebody slap me! Then somebody get a Rope! .........and not for me!

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Thanks for all your help. I can't imagine how many defects there would have been without your advice

After reading the last question, the only defect that matters is the one I think my heart just developed.

If there ever was a reason to considered wireless transmission of HDMI via a 900-1000 mhz system, this is one.

But if AC 110 is involved, I'm seriously considering showing up there, dicing a transit line in the ceiling, pulling the needed cables, inserting a "cut to shape" plug of new drywall into that transit cut, applying Mesh tape, and 30 minute Mud 2 times over 4 hours, and then priming and repainting.

Gosh, that would take all of 6-7 hours total, and when I'm done, you'd never know it happened....unit you realized you didn't need a raceway because what should have been done beforehand got none anyway in no time flat.

Better still.....YOU do it. And let's hear no more talk of frick-frockin' Raceways.

Of course, if the Raceway is for something other than HDMI / Power, then S'cuse Meeeeeeee....and disregard the previous admonishing. I was insane at the moment.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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MississippiMan,

I was about to kick back and enjoy some football, but immediately started pulling the painters tape after reading your post.

As usual your advice was dead on. It took a while as there was 1 layer of rolled on primer, then mud, then 2 coats of sprayed on primer, then 5 coats of Silver Fire to deal with. The pictures speak for themselves. I'm happy with the result.

I've posted a picture showing the screen in action with the image offset to show the Silver Fire vs. my normal wall.

And by the way, THE PQ is AWESOME! I see NO issues at all on the screen. Thanks so much for all the help.

As to the velvet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post


Is it to be just the velvet? If I was a'doin it, I'd wrap cut pieces of 1/8" Hardboard with the Velvet, and finish nail those nice, smooth, easily done sheets into place. They can be pried off easily if needed without ever affecting their cosmetic appeal too.

You have some acreage to cover...make the job easy for yourself. The factory edges of Thrifty White hardboard, when wrapped and then butted together, make for a invisible joint, so no worries there either.

Just do it......'nuff said.

Yes I was planning on using velvet for all of it. There is considerable light reflecting from the projector to the alcove walls (only 15" away). This seemed like the best solution for total light control in the shadow box.

And, dare I go here, as to the raceway...

Quote:
Well they all are "Sectional" in design. Is this for the HDMI / AC to the PJ?
A exposed Raceway in that beautiful room with magnificent Screen?

Somebody slap me! Then somebody get a Rope! .........and not for me!

After reading the last question, the only defect that matters is the one I think my heart just developed.

If there ever was a reason to considered wireless transmission of HDMI via a 900-1000 mhz system, this is one.

But if AC 110 is involved, I'm seriously considering showing up there, dicing a transit line in the ceiling, pulling the needed cables, inserting a "cut to shape" plug of new drywall into that transit cut, applying Mesh tape, and 30 minute Mud 2 times over 4 hours, and then priming and repainting.

Gosh, that would take all of 6-7 hours total, and when I'm done, you'd never know it happened....unit you realized you didn't need a raceway because what should have been done beforehand got none anyway in no time flat.

Better still.....YOU do it. And let's hear no more talk of frick-frockin' Raceways.

Of course, if the Raceway is for something other than HDMI / Power, then S'cuse Meeeeeeee....and disregard the previous admonishing. I was insane at the moment.

The raceway is only for HDMI. I have power at the current location which is why I chose it. I already have a raceway lining with the top of the kitchen island that is perfect (exactly the size of the cable), but I have no idea where it came from and cannot find anything similar at the normal locations. I only need another 8 feet to run the cable from the alcove over to my bedroom. I have it covered from there.

PS

I am "the acorn that will eventually become the oak". I want to do what you've described, a day for you, more than that for me. I will work this issue and get it done, but I just don't want to rush in to it. I already lost my NFL opening day party (Cards, win!), don't want to lose any more till after the season is over.

PS PS

I am totally happy with the screen and Silver Fire. Thanks one more time for all your advice.

After Pulling Tape...




Silver Fire vs. My Wall
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post #26 of 53 Old 09-12-2011, 02:25 PM
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That looks splendid.

Home Dee-Poe sells Cable Raceways in 8' lengths. Get'ter dun.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #27 of 53 Old 09-13-2011, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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MississippiMan,

Thanks, after all that hard work and allowing your wise words to sink in over the last 2 days...
Quote:


no more talk of frick-frockin' Raceways"

and
Quote:


One last plea....why can you not consider shortening the Drop Rod on the Fan and placing the Pj just behind it, but far enough that the Drop Pole of the PJ doesn't get whacked? You gotta realize that what with your screen size and viewing conditions, any degree of adaptation to your circumstances is going to pay you a much larger proportional dividend than most people. The difference is actually a huge one. 4 ft. lambert between 18' and 15' throw equates to much more than you realize when size and ambient light are both to be considered into the equation.

I checked with our companys facility manager and for he's going to help me install the projector behind the fan on Saturday. I owe him dinner at Pappadeaux and a couple beers for sure. I blame you completely for this turn of events Thanks for continnually prodding me to do the right thing.

We'll be pulling the HDMI cable and some romex over the top of the vault to the alove side that I have access to and run it down to the same area where you see the satellite mulit-switch in my pictures.


Monoprice should have the following delivered to me by Friday...

New longer mount mount...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage
Power/Low Voltage Wall Plates...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

I will keep you posted. Keep the good advice coming. I will become the oak, maybe a little sooner than I thought
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post #28 of 53 Old 09-14-2011, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mostau View Post

MississippiMan,

Thanks, after all that hard work and allowing your wise words to sink in over the last 2 days...and,
...I checked with our companys facility manager and for he's going to help me install the projector behind the fan on Saturday. I owe him dinner at Pappadeaux and a couple beers for sure. I blame you completely for this turn of events Thanks for continually prodding me to do the right thing.

Put my name on one of those Pints and knock it back without pause.
After you regain some composure, give yourself a pat on the back for being willing to listen and consider stuff. Many times it all goes for naught, or worse, someone takes offense because errors or misjudged actions are brought to light....especially if correcting them would / will cost more coins.

Quote:


We'll be pulling the HDMI cable and some romex over the top of the vault to the alcove side that I have access to and run it down to the same area where you see the satellite mulit-switch in my pictures.


Monoprice should have the following delivered to me by Friday...

New longer mount mount...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

Oh my gudness. Ye old Frankenstein Mount. Well, I suppose we'll let that pass for now...it certainly comes to you as a inexpensive (...albiet Pug-ugly) option. But fortunately I did notice that at least you can conceal the AC /HDMI cords down the center.

Quote:


I will keep you posted. Keep the good advice coming. I will become the oak, maybe a little sooner than I thought

Excellent. We'll start calling you "Woody".

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #29 of 53 Old 09-14-2011, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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After checking the Projector Central Calculator 15' will provide up to 157". I can go as close at 14' and a max screen of 147". Will that 1 more foot make much of a difference, and is it worth the smaller screen size? Masking all that pretty SF seems like a shame

Went up in the attic this morning and things are looking hopeful. These pictures were taken directly with my head sticking up the access which is dead center behind the alcove.

Top of ceiling and vault (directly in front of the access)


The location of the satellite cable runs down the alcove (60" to the right of the access)



Hopefully things will go smoothly.
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post #30 of 53 Old 09-18-2011, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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It took 7 hours on Saturday, but with the help of my buddy/facilities manager we were able to get the cable pulled and the projector mounted.

The "Frankenstein Mount" is a PITA to install and I will surely replace it when I change projectors.

Anyway things are finally coming together. The keystone issues are gone and I am dead on the center. The throw is now 14' 4 inches and therefore the screen is slightly smaller now. I will take care of that when I mask with the black velvet, which I did not have time to put up yet as I wanted to get in some football. I put my TV's back in the room and took a picture. I will raise the center television another 3 inches to make it the same height as the other 2 when I put in the velvet.

I should have a final "finished" picture some time next week.

Project In Action!

Projector Mount Front View

Projector Mount Back View
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