Just BLEW the budget on finishing the basement and need a cheap screen - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 10-05-2011, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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So all said and done, the basement being about 85% done has cost nearly 3x what I expected. I'm not that terrible at math, however some unexpected family issues prevented me from doing the work myself and meetin our deadline (needed a mother in law sweet asap!)

Not only did I need an inexpensive screen, but a projector as well. I picked upa used Sony VPL-AW10 for $200 on craigslist. I have bare drywall and a 15' x 9.5' wall, throw distance will be around 14', dimmers on numerous recessed lights and its a walk out basement which faces east with few windows, so light isn't a problem.

Obviously, I'm looking for a bright image with good contrast. Id like to go with a large screen aroud 130 to 144". Viewing distance will be around 13'. Ill mainly be watching movies, followed by sporting events. I'm thinking a painted screen is the way to go here, but hoping for a suggestion that will make my craigslist projector look, well, reasonably respectable. I've been reading through these forums and it seems like ther are a ton of options, hoping for a suggestion here that'll compliment this projector.

Thanks,
Dave
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post #2 of 39 Old 10-05-2011, 08:13 PM
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I would go with a MDF screen painted with Behr Ultra Pure White paint--cannot remember the exact info but search Tiddler on the screen forum and will find it. I did this with my Marantz projector for a while and it was plenty bright. Had butted sheets up to one another mounted to wood so 5 foot tall x 12 foot wide screen area shot pic from about 13 feet---and my projector is not light cannon so should work with your choices pretty well.
Currently have a screen--same size--using a sheet of Wilsonart Designer White Laminate from Home Depot. Also very cheap and give good pic and easy to mount. My professional calibrator ( UMR here on AVS) even recommended it on his website as a viable alternative to high dollar screens.
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post #3 of 39 Old 10-05-2011, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Id thought that a pre-mfg sheet like that would save some time on perfecting the drywall finish, but how do you fill the seam between multiple sheets?
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post #4 of 39 Old 10-05-2011, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave35 View Post

Id thought that a pre-mfg sheet like that would save some time on perfecting the drywall finish, but how do you fill the seam between multiple sheets?

I "engineered" it by putting a piece of the clear tape over the seam and then painting over the tape. If I looked at the 'screen' from a foot or so away could see the seam a little as slightly different color since on tape not wood but when a pic was thrown from the projector never noticed it even when seam was part of say a sky scene in Transformers or the like where should be uniform over a large area--it was. The seam really was not very visible anyway as could butt the two sheet up to one another very tightly and when painted was hardly noticeable even before my tape 'fix'

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post #5 of 39 Old 10-06-2011, 02:52 AM
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At that size, using two sheets of WA-DW will still be somewhat expensive, and making the effort to hide the seam will be at least as much of an issue as working to optimize the drywall finish...if indeed not more, and with less effective results.

If you want gain to any degree, and there is ANY visible line from the edge of tape, it will show. All due respect to energyfun, that is not a viable method of joining two sheets, especially WA-DW, if one is considering a 140" screen that would viewed from 13'

If you choose anything, choose to go ahead and finish out the Drywall. It's a common sense approach, and if it already looks reasonably good, all it should take is a long day's worth of effort. They say, "Time is Money", but if your capable of finishing out easily correctable flaws and doing joints correctly, I assure you that matching up a $200.00 PJ with $160.00 worth of substrate that still would need to be "seamed", primed, and painted ain't savin' you a dime.

Paint-wise, for Gain & improved contrast, consider RS-MaxxMudd LL as your best "easy" choice.

1.4 gain
Easily mixed
Spray-able or Roll-able

@ 140" diagonal (69" x 122") you'd achieve 13 foot lambert, just enough to have a respectably bright image w/1.4 gain. Might as well go for that size as dropping to 130" only gets you a 1 fl. increase.



Now if you go ahead and do a really righteous job on the drywall, then S-I-L-V-E-R would be the absolute BomB for you.

Take $60.00 away from the purchase of just a single sheet of WA-DW and apply it to this: http://www.gleempaint.com/noname.html

S-I-L-V-E-R consists of three ingredients:

1 Gallon Behr Faux Matt Glaze
1- 8 ounce tube of Liquitex Basics Silver
40 oz Distilled Water
(ingredients can be halved)

2.0 gain minimum and that get's you 20 fl with that 'ol SONY

S-I-L-V-E-R provides fantastic Colors and appreciable Contrast boosting.

It's applied over a series of 7-8 finely applied "Duster" coats that are in turn applied over a carefully applied coating of a good quality White Primer.

But.......the wall surface (..and hence the primer coating...) must be smooth and blemish free. It must be sprayed.

......and you must want a screen that will be absolutely ready for that future upgrade to a $500.00 PJ.

Here are links to the application, which features S-I-L-V-E-R being utilized on a 16 "foot" x 9 "foot" screen.

original "Build" thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=854134


AVS Members Pre-view party
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1159573

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post #6 of 39 Old 10-07-2011, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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MM,
Thanks for the reply, you've given me a ton of confidence in your formula and the correct equipment. In regards to a high gain screen, should I be worried about viewing angle?

I had another thought, this morning I came to the realization that a business a couple of doors down from me cuts plastic panelling primarily for the sign industry. I stopped by and he has a couple of .125" 80" x 120" sheets of expanded PVC, I believe he said it was Sintra. He'd ordered the size for a specific project and has a few of these left over. How much would these sheets typically go for?

How might I attach this to the wall and would there be any problems with that thickness and waves? I'd imagined attaching 2" x 4" wood to the wall as a frame, then cutting the sintra to size to sit inside recessed with some sort of double sided tape or other adhesive.
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post #7 of 39 Old 10-09-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

At that size, using two sheets of WA-DW will still be somewhat expensive, and making the effort to hide the seam will be at least as much of an issue as working to optimize the drywall finish...if indeed not more, and with less effective results.

If you want gain to any degree, and there is ANY visible line from the edge of tape, it will show. All due respect to energyfun, that is not a viable method of joining two sheets, especially WA-DW, if one is considering a 140" screen that would viewed from 13'

Mississippi Man--not a problem I was referring to the seam between MDF sheets being covered with tape to make a single larger screen as agree no way to join WA laminate that way with any success. I know from your posts had a lot of success with DIY so your advice to the original poster is well given.
G
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post #8 of 39 Old 10-10-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by energyfun View Post

Mississippi Man--not a problem I was referring to the seam between MDF sheets being covered with tape to make a single larger screen as agree no way to join WA laminate that way with any success. I know from your posts had a lot of success with DIY so your advice to the original poster is well given.
G

Sawright Bobbalouie....

For the edification of the Masses yearning to know;

Joining a seam, drywall or otherwise, and making it completely invisible is not something intuitive...but it's also not impossible. It just needs to be done right.

With MDF, sanding down a depression channel along each side of the adjoined edges, to a depth where whatever Tape is used is setting a fraction of a hair below the surface of the material is the only way to get'ter dun correctly. And the rear of the "joint" needs support via applying a "Bridge" of 3/4" x 24" x "material height" so that joint will not flex. A flexible joint tape such a Nylon Mesh variety should be employed. Lightweight Drywall compound should be applied in at least 3 separate layers, the first as a skim coat designed to simply adhere the tape within the sanded down groove.

The 2nd / 3rd coats are applied so that each of their footprints are successively wider that the Taped Grove application, so the edges of each application can be feather sanded down to a smoothed, flush state. You really do not want to sand the center of the 2nd coated area very much at all, letting that go almost un-sanded until the 3rd coat is up.

As for joining laminate, I'd brace the rear, but the edges together, and then use a paint-able, water based adhesive Flexible Caulk. Apply it with a 6" Drywall blade held as flat to the surface as possible, then immediately take a damp cloth to the outside edges and wipe then down until virtually flat.

If done correctly, after 2 rolled coats of Primer, one should not be able to see any lines.

However I would always do this sort of thing with the Board or Laminate already set in place, as any real degree of flexing will almost always result in a crack after Drywall compound is applied.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #9 of 39 Old 01-03-2012, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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So if I go with the Sintra vs. drywall, is this still the recommended paint formula?
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post #10 of 39 Old 01-03-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave35 View Post

So if I go with the Sintra vs. drywall, is this still the recommended paint formula?

Not anymore. There is a better choice that has considerable gain but none of the potential for screen artifacts caused by the Silver Content.

It is perhaps a bit more expensive a mix that S-I-L-V-E-R, but it is also an over acheiver.

Your call, oh Super one.

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post #11 of 39 Old 01-03-2012, 05:46 PM
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where can i get an 135" piece of sintra?
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post #12 of 39 Old 01-03-2012, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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The S-I-L-V-E-R sounded pretty simple compared to some of the other brews I've seen on here and hence pretty tempting. But if I'm going to be breaking out the wife's measuring cups and teaspoons, I might as well go ALLL THE WAAAYYYYY!

I'd love to hear your thoughts on what type of DIY Screen Paint/Substrate would give my old Sony the biggest bang. As mentioned, I do have access to some pretty good sized Sintra. But if this polycarbonate screen or some other substate is a more viable option, give me the scoop.
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post #13 of 39 Old 01-04-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Domingos,
The 80 x 120 Sintra is pretty rare from what I've seen. I'm in central NC, and luckily enough, own a business a few doors down from one of my neighbors who owns a sign shop that has a few sheets. Apparently he buys this and other materials in large volumes and sells to smaller custom sign shops. This size was special ordered for signs at a minor league baseball stadium, and the few sheets he has left have been floating around his shop for a few years.
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post #14 of 39 Old 01-04-2012, 08:16 PM
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the sintra is easier to paint... but it's not completely featureless.

the polycarbonate... actually comes in larger sheets than sintra... but it VERY heavy and VERY pricey... with the latter being the cons. oh and unlike the sintra... it requires a special adhesive application as shown by MM's recent thread.

but as a pro... it starts off completely featureless... ie baby butt smooth as glass

has anyone heard MM and I say... the smoother the finish (without sheen)... the better your picture's gonna be when you want it at it's best... with the light's out.
especially with today's high contrast 120hz+ 1080p's and future proofing for 2K/4K
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post #15 of 39 Old 01-04-2012, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the thickness of the polycarbonate that would be used?
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post #16 of 39 Old 01-04-2012, 08:46 PM
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1/8 to 3/16
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post #17 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 05:40 AM
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Superdave35,

Brother...if you can get 80" x 120" Sintra.....you gotta go with that. A 68" x 120" 16x9'er equates to being 138" diagonal. Gotta love that!

A proper priming by spraying can get it as smooth as the Poly-Carbonate and ready for a great Top Coat, and it's bound to cost a bushel and a bundle less that the PC does ( $30.00 per linear ft. ! )

Good Golly....if I could, I'd pre purchase every bit of that remaining stock. Yessiree.

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post #18 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 05:45 AM
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As far as using the Poly-Carbonate, getting the 3/16" thickness assure that it will lay absolutely flat. It comes in 78" wide and 100" wide sizes, so you can narrow down your size needed to avoid cut-waste. And you'll absolutely want the supplier to cut it for you to size....believe me.

SD, if you go the "Poly" route, be sure to check back in before you have it cut, and certainly before you attempt to hang it, as I'd like to interact with you and be certain you get the nest results for your effort.

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post #19 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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MM,
That does it. I just put a call in on the Sintra, I've got to keep in mind this is a $200 Craigslist projector, and the PC looks like a ton more work and money. You mentioned a better paint for this projector and room then the S-I-L-V-E-R, what would you suggest here?
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post #20 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 01:39 PM
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RS-MaxxMudd-LL v2.5

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post #21 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 03:10 PM
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well how about a new maxxmudd formula specific to dedicated home theaters and geared to 2k/4K... like that monster polycarbonate screen mix... with +gain and no trace of granularity whatsoever.

perphaps...

MaxxMudd DHT (dedicated home theater)
or
MaxxMudd 4K

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I used Screen Goo and have been pretty happy. I'm using a Sanyo PLVZ3000 projector with a throw of almost 17 feet onto a 108" screen. Plenty bright and I can even watch in moderate light. I will warn you that you have to follow the directions carefully because it dries quickly and you can leave streaks if you're not careful. I have it framed in felt and people can't believe that it's just paint.
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post #23 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBinMD View Post

I used Screen Goo and have been pretty happy. I'm using a Sanyo PLVZ3000 projector with a throw of almost 17 feet onto a 108" screen. Plenty bright and I can even watch in moderate light. I will warn you that you have to follow the directions carefully because it dries quickly and you can leave streaks if you're not careful. I have it framed in felt and people can't believe that it's just paint.

That's all fine and good,(...if you say so...) but GOO is a Mfg. Mix, and therefore is not referred to or suggested on this DIY Forum, whose rules plainly state that no product specifically intended and/or sold for use as a Projector Screen or Projector Screen Paint is allowed.

Considering that we have DIY Mixes that effectively trounce GOO products at well under 1/2 the cost, it would be a gross disservice to refer People to 'em in any case.

With all due consideration and respect for what I know is a screen your proud of, all the caveats that come with GOO are what led me to create a viable...and better, more easier and less expensive alternative way back in 2003. And things have always gone forward from there.

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post #24 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

well how about a new maxxmudd formula specific to dedicated home theaters and geared to 2k/4K... like that monster polycarbonate screen mix... with +gain and no trace of granularity whatsoever.

perphaps...

MaxxMudd DHT (dedicated home theater)
or
MaxxMudd 4K


You....you....PB you!

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post #25 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm going to see his last 80 x 120 sheet of Sintra, I have a feeling it might be less then perfect and need some TLC. If there are scuffs and dings, are these things that can be repaired?
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post #26 of 39 Old 01-05-2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave35 View Post

So I'm going to see his last 80 x 120 sheet of Sintra, I have a feeling it might be less then perfect and need some TLC. If there are scuffs and dings, are these things that can be repaired?

Super Easy, Super Dave. Simply skim with "Regular Drywall Compond" 2x, and very lightly sand, then Prime the Sintra and it'll be "all good".

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post #27 of 39 Old 01-29-2012, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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MM!
Glad you made it back safely from the left coast. I've got the 6mm Sintra cut to size at 68" x 120", and the entire basement sanded and ready to prime and paint. I've attached a picture of the screen area below. You'd mentioned a soon to be released paint fromula that would be ideal for my aged projector and big screen, is it still under wraps?

We'll be painting the area in the cut-out around and above the screen a navy color and the room itself a dark khaki color.....the majority of the ceiling, including from the projector up to the drop down wall will end up flat white. I do have a question about mounting the projector though as I haven't purchased a mount just yet. There is a wall coming down from the ceiling 14" which will be between the projector and screen. The projector I've purchased has a keystone adjustment, but apparently no screen offset. I'd like to mount the projector as close to the ceiling as possible (making it out of the way for kids and easier for xbox kinnect games), and I'm guessing most projector mounts will allow me to angle the projector itself slightly downard, then use the keystone to square the image on the wall. Is this correct?

I've also seen a few different ways of mounting Sintra mentioned on the forum, I was hoping to go with stripes of a caulk/adhesive on the back (no screws if possible to keep every inch of that screen available) with a border of 2' x 4's wrapped in black velvet. I'm guessing you'd place the bottom 2' x 4' on the wall first as a base, then adhere the Sinta to the wall, mask to paint, then install remaining 2' x 4', then wrap in velvet?

Thanks,
Dave
LL
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post #28 of 39 Old 01-30-2012, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave35 View Post

MM!
Glad you made it back safely from the left coast. I've got the 6mm Sintra cut to size at 68" x 120", and the entire basement sanded and ready to prime and paint. I've attached a picture of the screen area below. You'd mentioned a soon to be released paint fromula that would be ideal for my aged projector and big screen, is it still under wraps?

Not so much "under wraps" as being revised because of a tendency to be to "sheeny". I'll relate the upgrade to you soon.

Quote:


I've also seen a few different ways of mounting Sintra mentioned on the forum, I was hoping to go with stripes of a caulk/adhesive on the back (no screws if possible to keep every inch of that screen available) with a border of 2' x 4's wrapped in black velvet. I'm guessing you'd place the bottom 2' x 4' on the wall first as a base, then adhere the Sinta to the wall, mask to paint, then install remaining 2' x 4', then wrap in velvet?

Thanks,
Dave

"Super" bad, superdave... ...everything except the "Adhesive" part.

2x4's !! Egad! I get crazy when people state they are considering using 1x's !!!!

What you do/use is 1/2" x 3.25" MDF Base Trim. As a start you can draw a level line where you want the bottom edge of the Sintra to be, then screw a long piece of the base to the wall along that line.

Yes...you apply Elastomeric Adhesive Caulk in 1/4" wide Beads at 1" intervals and trowel out as smooth as possible. Start a bead 1' in from the top edge and pull down to the center line of the screen. Repeat until you have gone from one end to another, then go back and repeat from the center line to the bottom edge. You don't want to try to carry the bead too far or it will thin out as the pressure lessens. You want even beads. After you have done all the "onside" beads, you go back and ring the top-side edges with a bead, and place a bead on the wall along the bottom edge above the "Ledge" (...always Trowel inward toward the center, pressing the edge of the Trowel "Flat"...don't drag the sharp points too hard...)

Then, after you have applied the adhesive, you and another soul place the bottom edge of the Sintra on top the 1/2" "ledge" and start pressing the Sintra against the wall from the Bottom up, like apply any adhesive panel. Work up then out to the sides. Then taking a soft towel folded across your hands, press / rub the surface with zeal, making sure you have it bonded to the wall.

BTW, the adhesive will not stick to Drywall compound...you have to prime the wall with at least 2 coats.

Then, after 2 hours, you can remove the "ledge" and start painting. You don't want a raised edge or a "drop off" at the edges or you cannot get even paint coverage all the out to such edges.

After painting, then you wrap the "Mitered" Trim with Velvet and butt it against the edges, sloped edge inward so the edge of the Trim literally flows into the Sintra and is almost flush with the Sintra's edge.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #29 of 39 Old 09-22-2012, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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MM!
The time has finally come, the basement is finished smile.gif, the sintra is hung, the suggested paint sprayer is unpacked and ready to go. I have 2 step ladders and a walk board for screen painting on loan from a good buddy who will need them back this week so I need to pull this off in the next week.

Now, it's been some 9 months and wondering what's the best paint direction for my craigslist projector and sintra screen? You'd mentioned a formula with a 2.0 gain which was being developed at the time, has it been fine tuned? I also saw the S-I-L-V-E-R blend which looks like quite a simple recipie.

Thanks for all of your help,
Dave
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post #30 of 39 Old 09-23-2012, 10:24 AM
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Well OK then!


I'm going to go with a recommendation of S-I-L-V-E-R for the SONY and your Screen. The mix is simple...so all you really must do is concentrate on your spray painting technique.

That said, the original RS-MM LL option is still perfectly do-able. It 's only lacking is that it will be of less gain.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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