Spraying a weave screen - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 10-22-2011, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone tried spray painting a acoustically transparent screen before?
It would be nice to get a bit of gain out of these. Maybe a 1.5-2 gain?
We have sprayed speaker covers before without losing any sound quality. I don't think the paint partials would fill much? But, that is the question I pose, will it work?
I may get my painter to try it.
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-22-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Gleave View Post

Has anyone tried spray painting a acoustically transparent screen before?
It would be nice to get a bit of gain out of these. Maybe a 1.5-2 gain?
We have sprayed speaker covers before without losing any sound quality. I don't think the paint partials would fill much? But, that is the question I pose, will it work?
I may get my painter to try it.

Yes, I have...onto SMX material. You have to be careful, and the mix must be very loose and applied gradually. Also, my experience has found that you must start out with a mix that has in excess of 2.0 gain just to wind up with 1.3-1.4 gain after the light loss from "pass-through" is taken into account.

I did not do that my first time around, and the results were less than satisfying. I erred by being too conservative as far as gain goes..

But be advised also that when the surface is higher gain, the open areas of the perforations or area inside the weave will then be the points where you can visibly see a difference in gain....unless you have a layer of acoustically transparent white cloth (spandex works great) lying directly behind the AT material.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #3 of 18 Old 10-22-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Yes, I have...onto SMX material. You have to be careful, and the mix must be very loose and applied gradually. Also, my experience has found that you must start out with a mix that has in excess of 2.0 gain just to wind up with 1.3-1.4 gain after the light loss from "pass-through" is taken into account.

I did not do that my first time around, and the results were less than satisfying. I erred by being too conservative as far as gain goes..

But be advised also that when the surface is higher gain, the open areas of the perforations or area inside the weave will then be the points where you can visibly see a difference in gain....unless you have a layer of acoustically transparent white cloth (spandex works great) lying directly behind the AT material.


MM - is it at all recommended to do something similar with some type of mix that delivers performance similar to a black diamond screen? I guess so rather than high gain, target a grayish low-gain color?

I'm considering going either a mfg weave or spandex route, but can these be sprayed with some mix that replicates black diamond ambient light rejection?
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post #4 of 18 Old 10-24-2011, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

MM - is it at all recommended to do something similar with some type of mix that delivers performance similar to a black diamond screen? I guess so rather than high gain, target a grayish low-gain color?

I'm considering going either a mfg weave or spandex route, but can these be sprayed with some mix that replicates black diamond ambient light rejection?

Both SF & BD screens depend upon the use of a dark substrate with highly reflective elements embedded within.

I'm supposing that if you start out with a slightly reflective (not glossy) Silver Spandex alone, you'll be closest to what your describing.

Otherwise, beyond simply increasing gain (no issues with that) the ability to create a Weave or Perforated surface with acceptable AT properties that also can substantially increase ambient light performance might be limited to just having a darker Gray material that is hit with a substantial amount of lumens. From that starting point, it becomes a case of adding gain-inducing elements to a point where they make a difference but do not become detrimental.

It's a tough nut to crack fer shur....but we are just squirrel-ly enough to make the attempt.

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post #5 of 18 Old 10-29-2011, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Both SF & BD screens depend upon the use of a dark substrate with highly reflective elements embedded within.

I'm supposing that if you start out with a slightly reflective (not glossy) Silver Spandex alone, you'll be closest to what your describing.

Otherwise, beyond simply increasing gain (no issues with that) the ability to create a Weave or Perforated surface with acceptable AT properties that also can substantially increase ambient light performance might be limited to just having a darker Gray material that is hit with a substantial amount of lumens. From that starting point, it becomes a case of adding gain-inducing elements to a point where they make a difference but do not become detrimental.

It's a tough nut to crack fer shur....but we are just squirrel-ly enough to make the attempt.

thanks MM. I had put the material on hold while deciding on a PJ, but now that the RS45s will hopefully be shipping in the next few weeks I have been revisiting thoughts on screens. I think I will start building the screen frame (aluminum) and masking, and probably start with a few types of spandex combos (time to dig up those old threads here) to test out what image size I am most happy with. I *may* eventually go seymour DIY material (ssshh, don't tell anyone here), but until I make that decision I think I will go the spandex route. So hopefully I'll have some updates for those threads, particularly on the grays/silvers and maybe some layer combos.
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post #6 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 10:15 AM
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ruckus29,

I hope your having some progress. Every good attempt made with Spandex requires some trial & error, and if you nail your application, relating such can / will help a great many others needing a similar solution.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #7 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

ruckus29,

I hope your having some progress. Every good attempt made with Spandex requires some trial & error, and if you nail your application, relating such can / will help a great many others needing a similar solution.

I have not forgot about you! I just dont have my PJ yet (JVC RS45 will be my first PJ)!

I am currently finishing up the design of the frame. Probably going to go something like a 130" diagonal 16x9 screen at the maximum, though I plan to use 4 way masking (manual) to use something smaller for most viewing with the 130" being reserved for movies that have imax cuts/AR changes. Right now I envision doing a CIH setup (again with the help of 4 way masking) at 3.85 foot height (ie ~95" diagonal 16x9 and ~120" diagonal 2.37). Will be using either Bosch or 80/20 for the aluminum frame and will be doing something like a flip-up fixed frame attached to the ceiling on door hinges and a pulley system to raise/lower the screen.

After that is done this week I will be spending the next week or two picking out spandex materials to try (will likely order some whites, grays/silvers, and black, maybe with different glossiness, in order to test various combinations, may even through in some of the dazian materials). Will likely need to try and find some combo that gives me >1 gain (due to screen size and who knows final RS45 calibrated lumens and bulb performance) while still working with ambient light/light colored walls until i can cover those up.

I'll then build it all towards the end of November.

Then when the RS45 finally comes in (mid december maybe/hopefully), I can get to the real testing.

Am not sure at the moment if I will be attempting to spray any paint on to the spandex, perhaps when I finish the "dry" combination tests. I'd like to but dont have the spray gun and am being realistic that after the other testing, I'll just want to relax and watch some movies dang it . But perhaps I can be convinced.

So... long story short... I have not forgot about you or others looking into the material
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post #8 of 18 Old 11-12-2011, 07:07 PM
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MM, just an update:

I ordered samples of the following from Spandex World (basically a bunch of blacks, whites, silvers, and gunmetals each in milliskin, moleskin, and metallic spandex formats). Let's see what they look like in person.

Product # 795
Product # 5954
Product # 796
Product # 6201
Product # 5908
Product # 4150
Product # 1131
Product # 1214
Product # 3991
Product # 4285
Product # 932
Product # 6409
Product # 977
Product # 976
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post #9 of 18 Old 11-20-2011, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

MM, just an update:

I ordered samples of the following from Spandex World (basically a bunch of blacks, whites, silvers, and gunmetals each in milliskin, moleskin, and metallic spandex formats). Let's see what they look like in person.

Product # 795
Product # 5954
Product # 796
Product # 6201
Product # 5908
Product # 4150
Product # 1131
Product # 1214
Product # 3991
Product # 4285
Product # 932
Product # 6409
Product # 977
Product # 976

Samples are in. Much tighter weaves than I was picturing, even when stretched. Gives me hope that this really can compete with some of the manufactured AT screens.

Might do one more order of samples and then narrow down to 4 or so that I will pay for larger pieces so I can appropriately test when the PJ gets in.
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post #10 of 18 Old 11-21-2011, 07:20 AM
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the tighter the weave... the easier it can be sprayed.
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post #11 of 18 Old 11-21-2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

the tighter the weave... the easier it can be sprayed.

But even so, it must be an exercise in caution, patience, and proper technique.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #12 of 18 Old 12-26-2011, 06:31 PM
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Any update on the spandex samples? I'm interested to hear where you are at with your decision.
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post #13 of 18 Old 12-26-2011, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by outfitter View Post

Any update on the spandex samples? I'm interested to hear where you are at with your decision.

My frame materials finally come in tomorrow and Wednesday. So I will finally be able to start testing the various spandex materials this coming weekend and the following one (as realistically I will need most of this weekend to assemble the frame, permanently mount the PJ, etc).
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post #14 of 18 Old 12-31-2011, 11:11 PM
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I will be interested to hear about the end results of this.

Also MM - What was the end result from the SMX spraying you did? Improvement? Acoustical properties still intact?

I looking at improving the gain of my SMX screen and wonder how much gain I can get with one of the mixes? How much gain is to much?
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post #15 of 18 Old 01-02-2012, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exipnos View Post

I will be interested to hear about the end results of this.

Also MM - What was the end result from the SMX spraying you did? Improvement? Acoustical properties still intact?

I looking at improving the gain of my SMX screen and wonder how much gain I can get with one of the mixes? How much gain is to much?

Since we played is conservatively, Gain was essentially the same, but Contrast and Colors seemed improved. That was however 2 years ago, and since then even better suited Paint apps have happened along. I'm certain we could acheive a increase in gain that would make a noticeable difference.

Properly applied, Acoustic considerations were not compromised in the least.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-02-2012, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Since we played is conservatively, Gain was essentially the same, but Contrast and Colors seemed improved. That was however 2 years ago, and since then even better suited Paint apps have happened along. I'm certain we could acheive a increase in gain that would make a noticeable difference.

Properly applied, Acoustic considerations were not compromised in the least.

Excellent that acoustic properties stayed the same. I've looked at some of the paint threads but could not easily find information about the gains. What is realistic in todays formulations regarding screen gain? Can we achieve good results similar to the HPHC screen from da-lite which is at 2.4?

I would like to mount my projector (Sony HW-30) in the back soffit which is 220 inch from the screen. Screen size probably at 132 inch wide 2.35.
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post #17 of 18 Old 12-03-2012, 10:24 PM
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What ever happened with this? I'm curious to see the performance of the different spandex and whether or not you went through with painting the spandex. I am thinking of doing the same.
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post #18 of 18 Old 12-04-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exipnos View Post


Excellent that acoustic properties stayed the same. I've looked at some of the paint threads but could not easily find information about the gains. What is realistic in todays formulations regarding screen gain? Can we achieve good results similar to the HPHC screen from da-lite which is at 2.4?


I would like to mount my projector (Sony HW-30) in the back soffit which is 220 inch from the screen. Screen size probably at 132 inch wide 2.35.

Gain isn't hard to achieve, however it would always come with the same caveats that all High gain screen posses (limited Viewing Cone - restrictive PJ placement )

The S-I-L-V-E-R solution is the only thing I could recommend that does not exhibit such detrimental tendencies. it's been well proven to optimize a PJ's output and distribute reflected light very evenly. Most approximations of it's actual Gain put it at 1.8, but it performs more like a 2.8 / 3.0+ gain surface. Kinda stretches the known Laws of Physics and has always been quite consternating ro those who would rather not see such a simple concoction out perform very expensive Mfg Screens.

The fact that it is a very thin Paint solution that is Dusted on makes it a least plausible to consider using on a light, stretchable cloth like Spandex. But a correct application would be the key determining factor, and of course, I'd suggest that the Spandex be pulled as tightly as possible without one actually distorting the appearance of the Weave.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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