DIY Gray Screen - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 53 Old 03-11-2012, 03:56 PM
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great looking screen, especially the frame

Gear list: Main setup - Kef Q900, Svs sb12-nsd subwoofer, onkyo 609 receiver, epson 8350 projector, elitescreens sable 92" screen, mac mini htpc
bedroom setup: PSB Image B5, maverick tubemagic a1 amplifier, hifimediy sabre9023 dac, ZMF Fostex T50RP modded headphones
preordered gear: Light Harmonic Geek Pulse X dac and headphone amp
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post #32 of 53 Old 03-11-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hanos. I too really like how the frame came out. Made the screen looks high qualiy. Hehe...

MM put together a very nice tutorial for it.

Btw. I finished calibrating the pj last night
Will put up some more shots tommorow.
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post #33 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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well, i have been complaining that my gray screen is a bit too dim so for comparison's sakes i threw up the piece of left over sintra (white) and took some shots.

i really do miss the brightness of my old WA DW screen which the sintra is said to be very similar.





















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post #34 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 09:40 PM
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Yeah...but in the 6th, 8th, and 9th images, the lost of contrast (...depth of blacks...) is so apparent it hurts the heart more than the white level difference.

Your always gonna hate such a mismatched comparison.

Finding a balance between gain and high contrast isn't easy, and it certainly doesn't happen with basic color schemes. The real object is to determine just how much reflectivity can be added to just how dark a Gray shade and still retain both color correctness and dynamic range.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #35 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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i just wish this screen has a few more ftL and it be perfect (at least more my lowly needs).

the picture of the girl with the headphone is pretty revealing. there's virtually zero details whatsoever on her face with the sintra, though it's much brighter.
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post #36 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 10:05 PM
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I'm sure the "blow out" is worse on camera than in person though.....

Still, you can bump up the neutral Gray equation with about 15% to volume added Pearlesence to the Base Gray , as well as 10% added Titanium., for a 10-15% increase in gain. And....add about 15% Polyurethane. All together, if you have proportionately enough of the original Gray paint left, yiu can make up a 45% / 55% ratio and rolling on.

I daresay you'll notice the improvement. If not...just think of the opportunity to rag me out about it!!!

In all earnest though....Why not give a suggestion from this side of the fence a try...eh?

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post #37 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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lol. i am. i think i am going to try the Glidden 450 Titanium White that Kirnak suggested.

you know, i am a simple OTS guy.
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post #38 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 10:21 PM
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Well white will do what you saw the Sintra do.....and that also means significantly lessor black levels.

......you would do yourself a better turn if you tried using that Glidden "base" paint, tint it a lighter shade of Gray, and adding a bit of reflectivity and translucency.

Why you could go from being a "OTS" to a "GOYA" kinda guy in no time flat.

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post #39 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

the picture of the girl with the headphone is pretty revealing. there's virtually zero details whatsoever on her face with the sintra, though it's much brighter.

I'm curious, does it really look like that in person? It looks like you've exceeded the dynamic range of your camera in that shot. If it really does look like that, a good gamma calibration should fix that. Also, Sintra hotspots badly; that face might be right in the hotspot.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't recomend a white screen. There are certain specific instances where I think it works: A treated theater room with low PJ output for screen size. I'm going to try it, but I haven't actually done a full screen yet. I may paint over it next year, I'll have to see how I like it.
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post #40 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

I'm curious, does it really look like that in person? It looks like you've exceeded the dynamic range of your camera in that shot. If it really does look like that, a good gamma calibration should fix that. Also, Sintra hotspots badly; that face might be right in the hotspot.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't recomend a white screen. There are certain specific instances where I think it works: A treated theater room with low PJ output for screen size. I'm going to try it, but I haven't actually done a full screen yet. I may paint over it next year, I'll have to see how I like it.

no, it does not look blown out like that in person, but you can definitely notice the lost of details and contrast (almost a whiteness).

in all honesty, this is not a fair comparison, i just wanted to show the brightness that i like. a white screen will work in my room. i have a dedicated media room in the basement - completely light controlled and dark walls and ceiling. the only light visible in the room are the LEDs from my audio gears. i had a white laminate screen in there previously but i wanted to give the gray a try.

don't get me wrong, i do like this gray screen but i am missing that brightness and the brighter white that i am used.

oh, and i did calibrate the pj's grayscale to the gray screen so by all means the comparison is far from being 'fair'.
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post #41 of 53 Old 03-27-2012, 10:50 PM
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i'll be completely honest... and say that the direction you were given and the advice you took... well... let's just say you were misguided.

go back and took a look at those comments i made about your screenshots earlier... well, i would make those same exact comments now about your grey screen... even with bare naked sintra sample as a comparison.

fact is, the same relevant comments of the projectorcentral review with respect to SS can also be made about sherwain williams unique grey or any other OTS grey... nuetral or otherwise. and regardless of the RGB measurements... the problem lies in the 'medium' itself.

like mm said, i think you can find a happy medium OTS grey... but you're not gonna be happy with the white levels of anything that dips down past an N9.

and in combination to that... kirnak is correct... a calibration to the new grey screen is in order.
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post #42 of 53 Old 03-28-2012, 06:18 AM
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I'd also love to see some ambient light shots to see the washout on the Sintra v the gray screen just to see the other half of the equation for many people. Thanks for posting them, I have a gray screen currently and haven't had the heart to put the Sintra up against the wall (the sheet is still whole) to compare...
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post #43 of 53 Old 03-28-2012, 10:35 AM
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Well I can oblige ya there...but it will be later on today / evening. I have quite a collection...but be advised they are all primarily intended to show the difference between the two examples when ambient light is present....not as being judgmental as far as the difference between what whites look like on "White" as opposed to "Gray".

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #44 of 53 Old 03-28-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well I can oblige ya there...but it will be later on today / evening. I have quite a collection...but be advised they are all primarily intended to show the difference between the two examples when ambient light is present....not as being judgmental as far as the difference between what whites look like on "White" as opposed to "Gray".

That would be great. I am still contemplating the balancing/compromise act. I know when I went from white primer to gray screen that my ambient light performance was much better and these pictures show what I suspected, that white (for the most part) looks better than gray side by side. My issue is that after going to the gray screen I notice less issues going from white to gray in "picture quality" while the ambient light performance difference is a huge plus for me.... I really only want to spray that sintra once so any pics or info would be great. Thanks.
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post #45 of 53 Old 03-28-2012, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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well, the nice thing about sintra is it has two sides, so if you don't like the paint flip it over and paint/spray the other side.
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post #46 of 53 Old 03-28-2012, 01:53 PM
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the eye needs to see a balance of what's absorbed as well as what's reflected. problem is, anything less than N8 really aborbs TOO much and doesn't reflect enough and anything above N9.5 begins to reflects TOO much and aborbs not enough.

it's quite easy to see in all of these pics where the grey absorbs too much and the white doesn't absorb enough.

the most stark of course is the girl with the headphones... where the immediate reaction is towards how much more brightness the sintra has. but the truth is, it's far from being correct. true, here the grey gives the skin tones a dirtier look than it should... but the white sintra is devoid of skin tones altogether and it's just as wrong as the grey. what is correct is somewhere in the middle.

and that's what is so misleading about such white/grey comparisons. and no matter how wrong a white screen can sometimes be... many will always be drawn to the it's initial brightness or maybe a better term is 'whiteness'.
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post #47 of 53 Old 04-06-2012, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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moving onto the next paint.....

any tips for safely removing the trim panels from the komatex board?
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post #48 of 53 Old 04-06-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

moving onto the next paint.....

any tips for safely removing the trim panels from the komatex board?

Are they nailed using Finish Nails?

To quote James T. Kirk;
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http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #49 of 53 Old 04-06-2012, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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yes, each trim board has about 4/5 finished nails in them.
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post #50 of 53 Old 04-06-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

yes, each trim board has about 4/5 finished nails in them.

If you "set" the nails under the velvet, just pull 'em off. That's what I've always done when needed.

In cases where the nails actually got into under laying studs, they simply pulled through the Trim.

Now if your Screen isn't firmly attached to the wall by itself, simply take it down and use a pair of pliers and with a "rolling" action, pull the Nails trough from the back side.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #51 of 53 Old 04-06-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks. my screen is not attached to wall, i used french cleats.

i was thinking of lightly tapping the back side so nail protrude through trims, then use pliers to remove nails from front. just don't want to break the komatex board during the process.
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post #52 of 53 Old 04-06-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

thanks. my screen is not attached to wall, i used french cleats.

i was thinking of lightly tapping the back side so nail protrude through trims, then use pliers to remove nails from front. just don't want to break the komatex board during the process.

As mentioned previously, if you have indeed set the Nails below the surface of the Velvet, then trying to force them back through the opposite way can risk tearing or fraying the cloth.

If you can see the nail heads, the it's probably safe to go ahead and tap them out. But another issue arises. You won't be able to tap them all the way out, at best flush with the komatex. At that conjectire you are really safe to pull the Trim away from the komatex. On the Velvet wrapped Trim side, if you use Pliers and have to "roll" the nail out (...pulling "straight-out" is harder and can be problematically difficult to control), you have to use a thick pad of cloth between the Pliers and the velvet lest you "bruise" the nap of the Velvet and "slick" it out (...make it shiny...)

Going the other direction, you should still pull the Trim away from the komatex. Believe me, the amount of effort required is not great. Afterward, If you place a piece of thin hard material (1/4" Plywood...even a wooden Ruler...) between the Board and the nose of the Pliers and do the "twist & roll" method, you'll find the nail's head will pull the rest of the way out of the thin, Mdf Trim with minimum effort.

No matter what, you risk far less potential damage to the materials doing it from the rear.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #53 of 53 Old 05-26-2013, 10:36 AM
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This is cool.. very cool.

But for those like me, too lazy or less skilled in these things smile.gif, what do you say about this screen from Frys for $119?
http://www.frys.com/product/6745465

Of course this one may not be as good as yours, but is it at least acceptable?
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