Upgraded PJ. Change from SILVER to AT spandex? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So, my BenQ W500 is reaching the end of it's lamp life. Instead of spending a couple hundred on a new lamp, I decided to blow a grand and picked up an Epson 8350. Full HD, more lumens, better contrast, etc. My Q is shooting at a 100" S-I-L-V-E-R screen thanks to guidance from MM 5-ish years ago. I plan on just swapping out the PJs for now, but in the long run I want to go AT and increase size to 111" (yep, that's right, not 110, but 111 ). For my cheap DIY pleasure, I'm thinking spandex. Probably the Moleskin matte silver. So now, the questions:

1) Is the Silver material listed above a good fit for the Epson 8350? I know some flourish with white, others with gray. Try searching for "Epson 8350" and "screen" and you can read for months.

2) I'm thinking of a frame much like lakersin2025 made here, but make two support braces off center to accommodate a center speaker. Do you see any pitfalls to this method?

3) I was thinking of using Screen Tight hardware to secure the spandex... if I can find it here in the Great White North. I feel this should be more forgiving than stapling. Thoughts?

4) What is the recommended minimum distance between the speaker and the back of the screen material? I want to conserve as much space as possible, so I need to build new speakers. I plan on looking up some DIY builds to go as thin as I can. Recommendations?

5) My PJ mount is currently 13' from the screen (lens to screen, +/- inch or two). I'll have to zoom ~1.77 to fill the 111". Is it preferable to be closer and zoom more or further back and zoom less?

6) MM, this one is up your alley, but others may have insight. Going from my beloved S-I-L-V-E-R to fabric, keeping in mind the PJ upgrade... will I be disappointed in pop and pizzazz? If so, it looks like I can possibly spray the spandex with SIL. Is that much harder than the first time when I sprayed MDF? Would a possible future spray affect the material choice (i.e. white vs silver)?

Whew! That's a lot of questions! I love these forums, but because of the size, they suffer from information overload. Searching any of these pretty generic terms yields hundreds of threads... Looking thru them lasted me a couple days, but now I'm just looking for opinions on my specific queries. What do you guys figure?

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 09:51 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

6) MM, this one is up your alley, but others may have insight. Going from my beloved S-I-L-V-E-R to fabric, keeping in mind the PJ upgrade... will I be disappointed in pop and pizzazz? If so, it looks like I can possibly spray the spandex with SIL. Is that much harder than the first time when I sprayed MDF? Would a possible future spray affect the material choice (i.e. white vs silver)?

Hi!

I'll answer "my question".

The 8350 is a big factor here. The Moleskin Spandex will easily deliver you similar performance to S-I-L-V-E-R, and do so on Low Lamp at your "projected" AT screen size of 111" diagonal.

I do suggest you acquire sample of a few "Silver" Spandex cloths. Some do have more sheen than others. I personally would opt for the one linked-to above in your post though.

As far as spraying later, it will serve you best to just re-fabric the Screen in a Bright White and then paint.

Awww...OK, one other bit of advice. For a short Throw, you can be absolutely certain that Low Lamp can be utilized. If it's still too bright with the Silver Spandex, the addition of a appropriate ND-Filter can easily absolve that. I would place the PJ to about 15% of the minimum Throw distance.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #3 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I don't mean to hi-jack this thread but has anybody ever tried "screen door" screen spline as an attachment method? I'm planning a screen build out of the same spandex material. My plan is to router a groove on the perimeter of the screen frame and use the spline to hold the fabric to the frame. If its been tried and doesn't work it would be good to know.
SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #4 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

If it's still too bright with the Silver Spandex, the addition of a appropriate ND-Filter can easily absolve that. I would place the PJ to about 15% of the minimum Throw distance.

Thanks for the input MM. I got my crayons out to figure the 15% thing, but I'm afraid you lost me. Does this mean that if, say, the min throw distance was 10' you'd tack on 15%... So 11.5'?

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #5 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHNEEDOO View Post

I don't mean to hi-jack this thread but has anybody ever tried "screen door" screen spline as an attachment method? I'm planning a screen build out of the same spandex material. My plan is to router a groove on the perimeter of the screen frame and use the spline to hold the fabric to the frame. If its been tried and doesn't work it would be good to know.

Yeah... stop hijacking crap... geez!

Actually, I considered this as well. Run a couple grooves with a router and the rubber spline thingy for screen door repair and you should be set. I think I may get some sample material and try this out for something to do. My wife will be oh so pleased!

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #6 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 01:03 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Thanks for the input MM. I got my crayons out to figure the 15% thing, but I'm afraid you lost me. Does this mean that if, say, the min throw distance was 10' you'd tack on 15%... So 11.5'?

Yessir.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #7 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Since I'll eventually be putting speakers behind, I'll need to do some light blocking. Black spandex should do the trick I'm assuming. Can it just be generic cheap crap like this?

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #8 of 50 Old 03-05-2012, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Yessir.

Hey! Nice! The ol' gray matter is still functioning! Thanks again.

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #9 of 50 Old 03-10-2012, 03:36 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Here are some pictures of my screen, 16:9 101" x 57", project using the Moleskin matte silver and the Screen tight hardware.







I need to add some black spandex behind the silver to hide the frame supports which are visible when the lights are on. They weren't visible with the movie projected.


SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #10 of 50 Old 03-10-2012, 05:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,523
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 428
so you posted pics, but no opinion?

I have BOC and was considering spandex as well, but the BOC is sooo good it's hard to figure it would get better? Does the spandex have any sparklies, or reflective aspect - any 'haze' type visual to it? Darn I need to make multiple of these DIY screens and try them all.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is online now  
post #11 of 50 Old 03-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

so you posted pics, but no opinion?

I have BOC and was considering spandex as well, but the BOC is sooo good it's hard to figure it would get better? Does the spandex have any sparklies, or reflective aspect - any 'haze' type visual to it? Darn I need to make multiple of these DIY screens and try them all.

I replaced a BOC screen. I haven't adjusted the projector yet to the new screen, but so far I'm impressed. I'm not seeing any sparklies on it. Blacks are better than my BOC was. I've only watched a few movies and the CGI on Return of the King was hazy in some parts but I think that's baked into that particular scene of the movie. Overall I'm impressed and finally having the speakers behind the screen is icing on the cake.
SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #12 of 50 Old 03-10-2012, 06:49 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Now...let 'em eat Cake!

Just wait until you post more shots of the Tron Girls wearing Spandex show up. Then the show really starts!

The one where the Girl is longing on the Couch.....that's a good example of what the art of DIY Screen making can be...and is all about.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #13 of 50 Old 03-11-2012, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Looks good schneedoo. I found some silver spandex locally, but not sure if I want to get it or just order from the US. I'm always worried about duty crossing the border killing any potential savings. But, I'm also afraid of getting something down the street that sucks and I'll be unhappy. oh the choices. But in the meantime, I have bigger problems. Just unboxed my new 8350, mounted it and fired everything up. No signal from my Onkyo 605. Direct blu-ray to the PJ and all is fine. Not a happy camper right now. I'm able to get sound by using the 2 channel outputs, but this is not a happy place for me. Looks like I may have to drop another $500 on a new receiver. Sh!t.

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #14 of 50 Old 03-11-2012, 02:54 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Sorry to hear about the receiver, but thanks for the idea about using the Screen Tight hardware. I used a larger screen spline .160" dia. It seemed to work best by just pushing the spline straight down. The spline tool made the fabric bunch up too much.
SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #15 of 50 Old 03-11-2012, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'm thinking about skipping the hardware and just routing a groove in the frame and using spline directly in the wood. And yeah, bummed about the receiver, but good news... after it was running for around an hour, the picture finally came on. Must be some solder problems. I'll probably replace it anyway, but it may be a couple months before I can swing it.

So, back to the spandex... the "moleskin silver" I linked is 87% nylon, 13% spandex. The local stuff is 80/20. It also did not list a weight, and it's just called "matte silver". Not much to go on. Will pretty much any silver do or are we getting into specifically tested material here and any variance may end in disaster? I guess I could just drop the $40 and stop whining, but.... it's $40!

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #16 of 50 Old 03-13-2012, 05:20 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I put black spandex behind the silver and now the frame supports are no longer visible when the lights are on. I stapled the black on to the frame and the staples seem to be holding the material fine.

SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #17 of 50 Old 03-15-2012, 05:33 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I mounted my IR receiver behind the screen. Everything works great right through the screen.


Stretch Velvet Border
SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #18 of 50 Old 03-15-2012, 05:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,523
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 428
I'd like to hear more comparison on the screen quality of spandex vs. blackout cloth

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is online now  
post #19 of 50 Old 03-15-2012, 05:46 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I've been too busy working on it to watch much. Images seem better than on my BOC. Now I had the projector zoom maxed out on the BOC and now I'm at about 1/2 way after moving the projector back three feet. I also increased my screen size. I watched 'Survivor' on it last night and it looked really good. I want to get the wall done before I start fine tuning things. I'll be sure to keep this thread updated.
SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #20 of 50 Old 03-16-2012, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Nice job schneedo, and thanks for keeping this updated. I'm going to put in an order for my spandex shortly. Where did you get your velvet?

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #21 of 50 Old 03-16-2012, 12:35 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Joanne Fabric Store

http://www.joann.com/stretch-velvet-...rs/xprd768914/

I'm impressed with the velvet. It looks like it too would be acoustically transparent.
SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #22 of 50 Old 03-28-2012, 05:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
blipszyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 2,517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHNEEDOO View Post

Overall I'm impressed and finally having the speakers behind the screen is icing on the cake.

Did you notice any difference in sound with the speakers behind the spandex? I'm a little hesitant to go spandex as I don't know what it's true AT qualities are.

Visit the Lipszyc Home Theater! 1.0
2.0 done and finally posted! - Theater 2.0

And now...The Queen City Theater (3.0)
blipszyc is offline  
post #23 of 50 Old 03-28-2012, 05:45 AM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I haven't noticed any differences. So far I've watched Braveheart and Minority Report both of which I watched on the old setup. Everything sounds good to me, I can't tell a difference. I've never had an AT screen so I don't have anything to compare it to. When I stand behind the screen I can still see the room lights even after putting the black behind the silver. I'm assuming if light can make it through the same should be true for sound. So far I'm very impressed and happy with the change.
SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #24 of 50 Old 03-28-2012, 09:15 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 200
SCHNEEDOO,

Your correct. In fact, the far less dense spandex is better at not attenuating frequencies than any of the popular Mfg AT Screen materials. Actual AT Screen materials are so thick because of the desire/hope that the proportion of reflective surface area to openings be as great as possible, but balanced enough to allow sound to pass through. But with all the necessary holes, the material itself must be fairly stout, and not allow for much stretching out of the shape and size of the openings.

The best AT materials do a very decent job of it...in not for a so decent a price. But basic common sense would point to a thin, loosely woven stretch fabric as being even less restrictive than a perforated or woven Vinyl.

Perhaps that explains why "spandex-like" Cloth is used for Speaker Grills....ya thin?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #25 of 50 Old 03-31-2012, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Update from me now... I built the screen out of 1x4 lumber, routed two channels in the back, used butt joins with a biscuit joiner, glued it, clamped it, and squared it up. Got my shipment from Spandex world and I have the black attached and just finishing up on the silver. I need more spline, so I'm off to Home Depot in a few minutes. The corners are a bit hard to get tight, but I'm going to overlap black velvet frame by an inch or two onto the screen surface. It's sitting at 118" diagonal right now. If I overlap the frame by 1.5" all the way around that leaves me with 115", which is just about perfect according to THX... I think.

It'll be kind of useless as an AT screen for a while. I don't plan on renovating the screen wall until after Canadian Football season is done in November. Then it's framing and speaker building. Now I gotta search thru threads and see what MM recommneded for trim for the final frame.

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #26 of 50 Old 03-31-2012, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Looks pretty damn sweet! Kids are watching some super-low-def bullsh!t at the moment. I'll have to grab some pics with something more eyecatching on the screen, but it may be a few days... heading out the door very soon.

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #27 of 50 Old 03-31-2012, 06:51 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Update from me now... I don't plan on renovating the screen wall until after Canadian Football season is done in November. Then it's framing and speaker building. Now I gotta search thru threads and see what MM recommended for trim for the final frame.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=865218

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #28 of 50 Old 04-01-2012, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
DevonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks again Man from Miss' ;-)
As promised, a couple screenies:

Gotta love Pixar!


And with me in the frame.
RLBURNSIDE likes this.

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
DevonS is offline  
post #29 of 50 Old 04-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Senior Member
 
SCHNEEDOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, NY
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
That looks really nice. I played some scenes from "The Incredibles" and it almost looked 3d on the screen. Glad it worked out for you.

My screen wall is almost finished. Watched Toy Story 3 yesterday with the kids, it look awesome. I'll start taking and posting some screen shots.

SCHNEEDOO is offline  
post #30 of 50 Old 05-11-2012, 08:36 AM
Member
 
rberger3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Double Hi-jacking. I am currently using blackout cloth from Jo-anns Fabrics. IS this silver spandex stuff a lot better material? I feel like i've got a great hi-def projector but the screen seem sjust a little lack luster. I also have the epson 8350.
rberger3 is offline  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off