Blackout Cloth + SilverScreen + Ambient Light Controlled + Epson 8350 Question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 03-10-2012, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a Epson 8350 and I just made a Black out Cloth (BOC) Screen. I previously had a Dalite High Contrast Cinema Vision (HCCV) screen that I couldn't find myself interested in. I know some people love them, but I didn't. It was a $1000 screen and to me looked worse than a cheap manual pull down dalite classroom type screen. I recently built a JoAnns Black Out Cloth based screen and already vastly like this material better on two different projectors models - a Panasonic AX200U and my recently upgraded Epson 8350. The only way I can describe it was the Dalite HCCV screen had sparklies, like a fairy dust effect, or a wet look that I pretty much detested. I put up with it for a year, but I'm sooo happy I went back to a no texture, no reflective screen. I am currently using a standard dalite classroom pulldown screen and would be perfectly happy except for the wavy aspect typical of a non tensioned screen.

Hence the DIY screen with BOC.

I do not want ANY part whatsover of sparklies, fairydust, wet look effect, pixel'y gain structure etc. My room is painted black and dark brown and is in a basement so there is no ambient light. You can see a pic of my room in my signature. Do you think Behr silverscreen paint is a good addition to the BOC in my case or not? My projection distance is probably about 12 feet and my DIY screensize will be around 102 inches diagonal, or about 50"x89".

Oh for my reference in brightness tastes --- uncalibrated professionally -- my favorite setting that I like for the Epson 8350 is lamp in Eco, default Cinema mode on the Epson, and occasionally natural - which are the lowest two brightness modes available by default on the 8350 --- so I've got quite a bit of light output to spare if necessary, but anything brighter than that right now hurts my eyes during a movie because my room can be pretty pitch black with black painted walls and dark brown ceilings etc.

Thanks guys!

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post #2 of 9 Old 03-10-2012, 06:55 PM
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Painting the BOC with a simple solution such as Behr Silver Screen "color chip" 770E-2 with this:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/behr...ium-bas/959667

......is something I thing will float well in your Pond. It's roll-able too.

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post #3 of 9 Old 03-11-2012, 03:15 PM
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I think MM's url got cut off.. saw him recommend mixing behr silverscreen with this in another thread so I think he meant to past this one, looks like a premixed can of primer and flat interior enamel, I guess the primer is for it's priming qualities and the enamel is to lighten the silverscreen?
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/behr...ium-bas/959667

Gear list: Main setup - Kef Q900, Svs sb12-nsd subwoofer, onkyo 609 receiver, epson 8350 projector, elitescreens sable 92" screen, mac mini htpc
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post #4 of 9 Old 03-11-2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncola View Post

I think MM's url got cut off.. saw him recommend mixing behr silverscreen with this in another thread so I think he meant to past this one, looks like a premixed can of primer and flat interior enamel, I guess the primer is for it's priming qualities and the enamel is to lighten the silverscreen?
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/behr...ium-bas/959667

Thanks for the catch...but the linked-to paint is a Primer-Paint Combo, a genre that is becoming quite popular among several Paint Mfg. It's always a better quality paint anyway.

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post #5 of 9 Old 03-11-2012, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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so what am I gaining by painting the BOC? I must admit I think the BOC screen is absolutely amazing right now!!! I'm a bit nervous about the idea of painting it because the BOC is sooooo good compared to my last two screens! I may have got lucky because I notice not one hint of brightspotting, uneven-ness, or distortion in my images and I am very particular and un-nerved by flaws!

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post #6 of 9 Old 03-12-2012, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

so what am I gaining by painting the BOC? I must admit I think the BOC screen is absolutely amazing right now!!! I'm a bit nervous about the idea of painting it because the BOC is sooooo good compared to my last two screens! I may have got lucky because I notice not one hint of brightspotting, uneven-ness, or distortion in my images and I am very particular and un-nerved by flaws!

Since BOC is under 1.0 gain, and usually Mfg so as to be uniformly coated, when one also manages to stretch it evenly and tightly, all the aforementioned attributes you state are there to enjoy. You at least seem to be at that point, and you bet, people have been heralding the attributes of BOC Screens since the first one went up. However when comparing BOC to other applications, quite often one still sees the advantages in having a Screen with at least unity gain, if not indeed a surface that enhances perceived contrast

However, when looking at your thread's title:

Blackout Cloth + SilverScreen + Ambient Light Controlled + Epson 8350 Question

....one would surmise that some degree of ambient light performance is desired, and that you have in the least recognized that a Gray surface is going to provide that. (...like the HCCV screen did, but along with other detrimental aspects as well...)

Understand that it's those very undesirable aspects that exist with many Mfg Screens, as well as with some very basic DIY solutions, that drives the effort to make DIY Screens that are not just effective challenges to Mfg Screens, but that also exceed the performance expectations of those who aspire to have something better than they ever though possible.

BOC is Good....but it's simply that...Good. It can be made better.

Here are the facts;

The 8350 can use some "screen" assist...even in a totally dark room, with presenting the most absolutely best Contrast possible. A Gray can get'ter dun. I know......I've been there and done that a few times myself.

A Neutral Gray of the correct shade, when applied to a surface correctly, will often provide an even smoother image than BOC. In every instance? No...but that would be 99% "builder related".

If one employs no reflective additives to increase gain (...something you seem to not need nor want....) then it's universally accepted that a light Gray surface has the ability to create the proverbial "Looking through an Open window" effect. If that is accomplished and both a perceived increase in Black level rendition as well as some ambient light tolerance is added into the equation, then it should be easy to ascertain what you have to gain by painting the BOC.

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post #7 of 9 Old 03-18-2012, 07:56 PM
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I am interested in the build as well. I will probably attempt to do this same thing this week.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

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post #8 of 9 Old 03-19-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

I am interested in the build as well. I will probably attempt to do this same thing this week.

Well good!

Post up if you have questions or need any help or advice.

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post #9 of 9 Old 03-23-2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I have a Epson 8350 and I just made a Black out Cloth (BOC) Screen. I previously had a Dalite High Contrast Cinema Vision (HCCV) screen that I couldn't find myself interested in. I know some people love them, but I didn't. It was a $1000 screen and to me looked worse than a cheap manual pull down dalite classroom type screen. I recently built a JoAnns Black Out Cloth based screen and already vastly like this material better on two different projectors models - a Panasonic AX200U and my recently upgraded Epson 8350. The only way I can describe it was the Dalite HCCV screen had sparklies, like a fairy dust effect, or a wet look that I pretty much detested. I put up with it for a year, but I'm sooo happy I went back to a no texture, no reflective screen. I am currently using a standard dalite classroom pulldown screen and would be perfectly happy except for the wavy aspect typical of a non tensioned screen.

Hence the DIY screen with BOC.


I do not want ANY part whatsover of sparklies, fairydust, wet look effect, pixel'y gain structure etc. My room is painted black and dark brown and is in a basement so there is no ambient light. You can see a pic of my room in my signature. Do you think Behr silverscreen paint is a good addition to the BOC in my case or not? My projection distance is probably about 12 feet and my DIY screensize will be around 102 inches diagonal, or about 50"x89".

Oh for my reference in brightness tastes --- uncalibrated professionally -- my favorite setting that I like for the Epson 8350 is lamp in Eco, default Cinema mode on the Epson, and occasionally natural - which are the lowest two brightness modes available by default on the 8350 --- so I've got quite a bit of light output to spare if necessary, but anything brighter than that right now hurts my eyes during a movie because my room can be pretty pitch black with black painted walls and dark brown ceilings etc.

Thanks guys!

You might want to look at the projectorcentral review of that silverscreen recommendation. On the DaLite screen you didnt like the pearlescence that was added to the screen. Some people actually like this and you will see that people here are adding it to their recommendations of what they are recommending and even trying to sell on the internet as a coating. Most people are in the same boat as you when they see the difference of a screen that isnt adding anything to the picture. Unfortunately I havent seen a formula here that matches your description. Much of the data I have read is from colorometry for printing. Without going through great detail you will note from the review from projector central what is acceptable here as a silverscreen is actually described as a mess with the only attribute that watching screen credits is good. The only ingredient in many of the solutions that makes some sense in many cases would be the water to clean with.

My suggestion is to read the projectorcentral article and possibly try what Evan from that site recommended. I can say that I shared the same experience with the silverscreen. Further what Evan came up with seems to match your requirements at least as a starting point.
Good luck.
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