Can screen paint color help tone down a bright projector? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Next week I will likely be purchasing a Panasonic AR100 projector to replace my failing InFocus SP4805. The 4805 has served us well for 6 years, but now the light tunnel is failing (still on original bulb!).

Back in 2005 when I first bought my house, I knew I wanted a home theater room, but only had a small bedroom to do it in, 10' 8" x 9' 6" or so. I set up the 4805 to throw in the long dimension, and ended up with about a 9 foot throw distance, with a maximum 16:9 image size of 72". I leveled up the projector and painted the wall to match the image area. I rolled on what I think is the RS_MudMaxx or whatever it was called, from this forum back in late 2005/early '06.

I've always been happy for the most part with the painted screen's performance, except for a couple of light roller marks that are only visible on white or very bright scenes.

So now we're getting this AR100 which is a real light cannon, although it will usually stay in Eco mode with the Cinema setting, which I have heard should not be too bright at all.

At first I'll just set up the projector to use the current painted screen, with the idea that I will likely re-do the screen in the near future (larger size, maybe CIH, probably different mixture). If by chance the projector ends up a bit too bright on Eco/Cinema settings, is it possible for the screen color to tone down the perceived brightness? Thoughts?

MM I know we talked way back then when I was first doing this screen. I'm just down the road from you in DeSoto County. I'm thinking I may try renting a Wagner sprayer and spraying a new screen instead of rolling. I'll also likely do more sanding to get a smoother surface, as some of the original painted wall texture is still there on my current screen.

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post #2 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 03:12 PM
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If your "rent" one, I'll be po'd!

I have 2 and one is available for you to use with any degree of notice.

Besides....they don't rent out the 'el cheapo Electric HVLPs like the Wagners and HV2900s (Earlex -No Name-) so take advantage of me...I'm easy.

As far as the Screen, We/you need to sand it, Re-prime, and paint it with a N7.0 Gray
The Mix can contain some special ingredients, but not much...and if sprayed on, your new Panny will be both held in check, but the colors and whites will still be excellent.

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post #3 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 05:24 PM
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72" isn't that wide, so the Panny will light it up. One thing though is you should use the current screen to get a gauge on brightness. I have no idea what the gain is on that screen. If it is around 1 gain, then you can decide where you want to go from there. You might find that you want even more brightness. Some like Alan Gouger are projecting like 100 ft/lmbs.

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post #4 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I'm just going to set it up with the current screen and see how it looks. That screen size was the biggest I could get with the 4805 with that distance, but I'm pretty sure I can get close to 100" with the Panny at 9 feet.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 08:02 PM
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That is the way to go. That will give you a good baseline. If you want to go larger, then check out coderguy's calculator. Brightness is a personal preference. Theaters are supposed to be around 16 ft/lmbs. I actually like it brighter at around 25 ft/lmbs. Some have been happy with 7 ft/lmbs.

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post #6 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 08:07 PM
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patrick, I don't have to guess.....,

Your 1.3 gain 72"er, even when hit with the Panny on Low lamp, will pump out 3x the ft. Lambert. of that old 700 lumen IF-4805

I'm pretty sure you really know this...but go ahead and blaze away!

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post #7 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I've always kept the 4805 on Eco mode which is supposed to be ~600 lumens, to keep the fan noise down. I saw in the AR100 thread that putting it in Eco mode on the Cinema setting puts it below 800 lumens, which should be good for the dark room. But sometimes my 2-year old watches his Pixar movies in there with the lights on, so the brighter modes of the AR100 will be useful.

So you think it's a 1.3 gain? Not that I really understand gain numbers anyway It's actually the old RS-MMMaxx mixture. I think I did 2 coats of the base mixture and 2 of the top coat. Here's the page from the RS-MMMaxx thread where I described my process.... hard to believe that was SIX years ago!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...83#post7038383
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 08:43 PM
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I really think it's all simpler than you think. Nothing has been "reduced". Everything you want to accomplish is easily done and "all good".

The older 4805, calibrated in Eco Mode put out considerably less than 600 lumen.

Just concentrate in getting the wall smoothed out, and then apply 3-4 thin coats of a good primer. Then the newer RS-MaxxMudd. You'll be done.

There is no reason for you to be indecisive. You've been there, done that with a older Mix and less potent PJ. What's not to love?

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post #9 of 15 Old 03-19-2012, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Calibrated? lol what's that? I never did any sort of calibration on the 4805. I just put it in Eco and watched stuff. Would love to get a calibration disc of some kind when I get the new projector set up, definitely after the new screen is applied. Is AVIA still regarded as the best in that area?
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-20-2012, 09:55 PM
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I would go with Spears and Munsil. Stacey is very knowledgeable and will reply to the thread in the Calibration forum if you have any questions. My only problem with him is he hasn't been to Cedia in the last couple of years.

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post #11 of 15 Old 03-21-2012, 05:05 AM
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At least with the use of RS-MaxxMudd and , calibration will be a minor thing. Most have stated they felt in wholly unnecessary.

But different PJs do produce different degrees of color, and when a screen is basically neutral, calibration serves to correct the PJ's own shortcomings.

The Panny produces a very balanced image, but it's not perfect. The properties of the RS-MaxxMudd, when combined with such a slightly skewered image, could help push a color beyond what could be considered acceptable to a critical eye.

That is why many people look to PJs that have reputations for being close to dead-on correct "out of the box". There are not many to choose from.

In the past, calibration could be a chore...if not a real PITA. Hence why many (including myself) eschewed doing so. I personally tried to correct such discrepancies by designing work-arounds into the screen because the DIY'ers we were advising were mostly of like minded thinking. They didn't want to spend anyomre that necessary, nor go to any greater lengths than the absolutely had to. DIY'ers can be lazy souls, ya know.

But the gross improvement inherent in most of today's PJs (...but not all mind you...) and the availability of affordable, Customer friendly, almost intuitive Calibration Discs has made calibration become far more an acceptable...if not always a drastically necessary option.

But know this....so far I haven't seen anyone who correctly used calibration to offset a PJ's / Screen's /Room's idiosyncrasies ever state that they could not see an obvious difference in picture quality. So in the end, purchasing at least a Disney WoW Calibration disc for $30.00 can only help...not ever hinder.

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post #12 of 15 Old 03-21-2012, 11:20 AM
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I believe I have read everything. Calibration is wholly unneccessary may be a personal preference, but I doubt it will be that close without it. I don't believe I have read of to many pjs being close out of the box. Maybe two or three. That said it also depends on the screen. Have you measured any of your screens with a spectro to determine if they are neutral or not?

As for whether one could see a difference in calibration, again that is an individual response. Some see a huge difference from only being slightly off. Others don't care if it is far off or not. One only needs to read the individual response to the original RS1.

As for a calibration disc, I reiterate going with Stacey Spear's disc. I wouldn't buy the WOW disc as it has issues.

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post #13 of 15 Old 03-21-2012, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I checked out the Spears & Munsil website. Looks like a very nice product, especially for the price on Amazon. It does come with the blue filters described in the S&M tutorials, correct?

I think if I purchased one of these I would likely go through and calibrate every display in my house. Also, the S&M website doesn't really mention specifically if there's any difference regarding calibration of a front projector (light reflected off the screen) vs. a direct-view CRT/LCD/Plasma display (viewing the light directly coming out of the display). I'm guessing there is not when you're just doing the calibration with your own eyes and not any special equipment.
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post #14 of 15 Old 03-23-2012, 08:54 PM
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The spectral behavior of the lamp in any projector changes. It does not matter if it came out of the box perfect. Now I read the projectorcentral dot com review of the screen that had over 300000 hits here and one that people giving advice to as being neutral and almost neutral and you might want to see what they say about neutral. Is there a deviation from what someone states is neutral? I do know from screens I have here made by someone selling commercial mixes of paint and claimed it to be neutral as well. It is not even close to being neutral.

You know I went to someones bbq and I gave them a sintra board to use and they thought it was great and a lot of people commented the colors were dynamite and the comments were flying about just how good it was. Well fact is its not neutral at all. It had one coating of a base I was experimenting with and was a disaster as a screen. Just because someone likes it doesnt make it a good screen. Just because a novice tells you that a screen is great because he saved or perceived he saved a buck doesnt make it neutral or good. When you see gold paint being mixed in with reds and blues and green and throw in the minwax while you are at it do you think you are going to get a neutral screen.. ?? Some common sense should tell you what you are going to get. Some common sense should tell you what is going to happen when this smorgasborg starts to cure.
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post #15 of 15 Old 03-28-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I went ahead and set up my projector in REC 709 mode with calibration values based on what I saw on the Projector Reviews article. Of course that's not the best as they didn't use the same screen as me, but it's a starting point. I just received my S&M calibration BRD yesterday so I'm hoping to spend some time with that this weekend.
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