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post #1 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't I just use a single paint color from lowes, home depot, dunn edwards, or benjamin moore instead of mixing the silver screen or other concoctions?
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post #2 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damthrill View Post

Can't I just use a single paint color from lowes, home depot, dunn edwards, or benjamin moore instead of mixing the silver screen or other concoctions?

Sure you can, but, don't you want a better projected image over just a single paint?


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post #3 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely, but can't I give them a code and they can just make it up at home depot? Also, how critically do u guys measure the ounces when mixing your own?
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post #4 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 07:13 PM
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you give us very little... ok... nothing to go... in helping you
determine a respectable screen solution.

obviously, if it's an OTS (over the shelf) solution you desire...
that would mean a respectable OTS solution given your theater attributes.
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post #5 of 32 Old 03-19-2012, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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pb maxx, u r right. let me help u help me. but be open minded to all possibilites. I bought a w6000 this weekend. 4 rooms it WILL be in.
1) batcave 100% darkness but will have star mural and maybe led rope lighting recessed in 5 1/4 crown moulding multi color led. ceiling mount

2) living room 4 windows large to one side of viewing, probably black curtains. but still plenty of ambient light. cfl in evening recessed, ceiling mount

3)living room the wall is 2 feet recessed but still 4 windows that get morning light aiming east. Probably black curtain. ambient cfl in evening recessed ceiling mount

4) in california, sliding glass door to east side viewing and 2 4 thin tall windows to east from west side, can get black curtains but still ambient light, cfl mostly recessed ceiling mount and most probably shelf mount

Ya, thats right I will move it around as necessary and probably buy another projector in the future.

I love movies because it is the only way to escape reality, it is heaven in my eyes. no one bothers you in that two hour segment, except kids.

This is all new to me, so don't beat me up too much.

most rooms are 20 to 25 feet from screen.

projector will be calibrated accordingly.

anything else to help?
I am kind of a half assed prefectionist?
PPl say when I do it its good because I've done my research, in actuality all the jaw dropping I get is contributed to you guys...
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post #6 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 05:02 AM
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Dang man, you're going to move the projector around and get it all set up every time? Sounds like a major PITA. Hope you at least have several mounts like Chief mounts with the quick-release plate. We have one for our office projector and it works nicely at holding the projector's aim and alignment even after taking it down and putting it back up.


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post #7 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 06:42 AM
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So you need 4 Screens? How large?

3 locations require sufficient ambient light tolerance to demand the use of a Gray surface

The Dedicated Room could get away with a reference white. The w6000 is a bright PJ, so in low lamp on a white surface, you should be more than good to go.

But the same is not true for the other 3 locations.

In noting your comment :" I am kind of a half assed perfectionist?", then one might say it's safe to tell you that you don't want to try anything that is "less than' that self imposed limit. As stated, the dedicated room is a given. But if you want acceptable performance elsewhere, you'll have to step up and chew on the meat of the matter.

PJ location is important. Throw distance can mean everything. The w6000 has about 9' of working throw distance. In te rooms that are full of ambient light, you really want to stick the PJ within 20% of the minimum throw allowable for a given screen size in order to maximize the use of all available lumens. The more you have to fudge on that criteria, the more you'll have to consider using a more reflective Gray Based paint solution.

All your projected uses have solutions. For some you might want to consider upping the "Ass Ante" to at least 3/4s. For certain you should weigh your choices carefully...at least as carefully as we do in making our recommendations.

Patrick nailed his point to the wall. With multiple locations and lots of jockeying around, you need to consider getting a Chief RPA Dedicated Mount, and 3 additional RPU Mounting Blocks. The Blocks shoud be mounted on 1.5" diameter Drop Poles, and the Poles screwed into Peerless Round ceiling plates (ACC-570) Do that, and basically you can swing on the assemblies without their getting out of alignment with the screens. (..ok...hang maybe....not swing. )

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post #8 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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what do u extactly mean by working throw? the projector should be 9 feet from screen?

also in determining screen size and dimensions, the aspect ratios are Anamorphic/ 4:3/Wide/Letter Box/ Real screen selectable? 16:9 on my tv crops the sides or makes them black. What is the optimal one to use. I will watch netflix, sports tv, ps3 mostly all in hd alot. I have dish hd but alot of channels are standard, i gues the dish receiver is upscaling the content for me?

i am learning so try not to beat me up too much.
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post #9 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 12:25 PM
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too lazy to look it up right now... but...
let's just say for example the minimum throw required for 100" screen is 9ft.6inches... and the maximum is 18ft.6inches...
...then your working throw is approx 9ft.
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I am researching screen sizes of off w6000 charts. What do u think is better overall the 4:3 or 16:9? it says the projected pic is always 16:9
LL
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damthrill View Post

I am researching screen sizes of off w6000 charts. What do u think is better overall the 4:3 or 16:9? it says the projected pic is always 16:9

For your stated use...16:9 of course.

To reiterate PB's comment;

The 'working throw" is meant to be the total amount of throw, from the shortest to the furthest distance allowable to achieve the size screen you want...(..that is about 9' of distance between the two points...) so you would want to place the PJ as close to the Screen as possible without reaching the minimum throw distance. That would mean adding about 1' to the minimum distance...or as in the example given, creating a throw distance of 10' -6''

Just got back in...gotta go back out again...but you are NOT forgotten. Look for the detailed response early this evening.

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post #12 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I am debating between 92" and 100" diagonal in the ambient settings but will I get enough punch at 100" to beat back the ambient light without going to native lamp mode brightness and getting green overkill? The million dollar question?

why do you want me to use min throw or only (min +20%)? what happens if I go to max throw? Do the gremlins start spilling out of my projector?

Also can I go with a very high gain paint then reduce my light output of my projector accordingly in the ambient light rooms?

Also what if I just try the thrifty white board by itself unpainted for a day or two? is it a total waste unpainted? not enough energy to paint till weekend...
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damthrill View Post

I am debating between 92" and 100" diagonal in the ambient settings but will I get enough punch at 100" to beat back the ambient light without going to native lamp mode brightness and getting green overkill? The million dollar question?

Yes...no problem

Quote:


why do you want me to use min throw or only (min +20%)? what happens if I go to max throw? Do the gremlins start spilling out of my projector?

No but you waste enough lumen output to make a difference. At 98" diagonal, the shortest throw provides 44 foot lambert. That's enough that with a "+ gain" reflective Gray surface, if the need to deal with the afternoon sun streaming in from partially closed drapes is required, you'd have the muscles and the leverage to get the job done.

The longest throw drops lumens enough to only provide 33 foot lamberts, (...a 25% loss...) which although may still be considered a fairly high amount, once ambient light is working against your "projected Blacks" and colors, you'll miss the lost lumens.

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Also can I go with a very high gain paint then reduce my light output of my projector accordingly in the ambient light rooms?

You could....but it would still need to be a Gray-based solution, because sheer brightness alone cannot effectively combat the loss of contrast when ambient light is reflecting off the Screen with the same vengeance as the projected light

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Also what if I just try the thrifty white board by itself unpainted for a day or two? is it a total waste unpainted? not enough energy to paint till weekend...

Thrifty white hardboard has a mild Gloss, and with a beamer like the BenQ, you'll have an outrageous amount of glare...especially at certain angles of view from the screen.

You can still use it temporarily though....many have. Drop the Lamp Output to Low, and use the most dismal "Best" mode the PJ has, and you'll get by until you shake out the "lazies".

BTW...you live in LaLa land? There is a good possibility you might have a local source for Do-Able board (Lowes) It's worth checking on...and although it's about 2x as expensive as the Thrifty White (...which still ain't much at $25.00...) it's surface is considered an excellent "Ready to shoot onto" White surface...and as a bonus, it will accept sprayed on paint even better than the glossy TWH.

Better to go slow on all this anyway because you still have lots to learn, and there just might be a pop quiz on Monday...so be prepared, it will count for 40% of your semester's grade.

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post #14 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL!

I still can't get over the $2,600 price tag for the Stewart Firefox 92" at Magnolia. They say those who laugh last laugh hardest...guess that will be me when I save all that money on a screen.

In your expertise which designer custom mix should I use that you guys have created.

I will get the do-able, I have a lowes and home depot a mile from here and michaels too.

Also, if you don't mind can I pass on what I learned to my friend, he re hooked me to projector's, he has a pro8200 and is using a bed sheet attached to the wall? The true test is to be able to teach what you have learned...I am the karate kid, and you are Miagi right now.
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by damthrill View Post

LOL!

I still can't get over the $2,600 price tag for the Stewart Firefox 92" at Magnolia. They say those who laugh last laugh hardest...guess that will be me when I save all that money on a screen.

In your expertise which designer custom mix should I use that you guys have created.

I will get the do-able, I have a lowes and home depot a mile from here and michaels too.

No offense and I won't get into on this thread, but a lot of that $2600 price is in the frame. Stewart is usually more expensive than the other brands though. If you were building the frame yourself, then you can get material for a fraction of that price.

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post #16 of 32 Old 03-20-2012, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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how much would the fabric be for a 92" screen? and where can it be bought? and how much?

And no offense taken, it's your guys input that helps me.

There really is no one right way, unless you are a physicist I suppose. There are just so many variables that lead up to the ideal result.

Theoretical vs practical, I'll take practical here.

No one around me cares that I calibrate my tvs, except me. Actually I have never met any one in my city who even know what an ISF calibration is, and everybody bullsh**ts about going green and then run there tv as bright as possible for its life...
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post #17 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

No offense and I won't get into on this thread, but a lot of that $2600 price is in the frame. Stewart is usually more expensive than the other brands though. If you were building the frame yourself, then you can get material for a fraction of that price.

And so now we are back to blatantly suggesting Mfg Screen material, even though the OP had just suggested he was going to go with a DIY solution?

All the OP had to do was mention the inequities of the price of a Mfg Screen and Bang! Your off to the races. Just imagine what 4x the price of any such Mfg material from Stewart would amount to.

Read the title of the thread again. "One Paint".

And no matter what, going the DIY route the OP has been suggested is by far the most "practical", WAY less expensive, and capable of being made to be exactly what he needs / desires. His varying room applications demand that he tailor each screen for the environment it resides in. Only DIY solutions will offer him such a variety of applicable And affordable options.

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post #18 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I need to know a good paint mix for my needs. I got the 1x4 pieces, plas tex( forgot to tell them to cut it down to size), liquid nails, and pocket hole thingy.

Mississipi man, I have three locations that are ambient and may try 1 of three with fabric, thats all. But first one is paint all the way.

I also bought the harbor freight hvlp turbine kit that i haven't used yet, but I can try it on this project, it also pushes out a hottish air, so maybe drys faster, same as rockler hvlp turbine kit.

Also, the plas tex has two sides, one is smoother. I assume to spray on smoothest side?
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post #19 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damthrill View Post

I need to know a good paint mix for my needs. I got the 1x4 pieces, plas tex( forgot to tell them to cut it down to size), liquid nails, and pocket hole thingy.

How did you get hooked up with the parkland product? Doesn't matter much as long as your painting onto it...smooth side of course.

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Mississipi man, I have three locations that are ambient and may try 1 of three with fabric, thats all. But first one is paint all the way.

Don't think I'm totally against using Fabric....in some few instances it's actually preferred, such as making a lightweight Screen that can easily be put up and taken down, or when no other material can accommodate the size screen desired. but that about wraps up the advantages thereof.

Quote:
I also bought the harbor freight hvlp turbine kit that i haven't used yet, but I can try it on this project, it also pushes out a hottish air, so maybe drys faster, same as rockler hvlp turbine kit.

Hmmmmm....not familiar with that particular unit. It's hose must be fairly short for the air to be noticeably "hottish", not just mildly "warm". truth is, you don't want the paint to be drying as it exits the Gun. Nor do you want the gun's Tip and orifice to get hot lest it tend to bake the paint on.

The older "All in one" hand-held Turbines got quite warm, and required IMMEDIATE rinsing lest the clog up. Part of the heat issue was because they did not spray enough paint out in a volume, making the amount of time required to paint a normal sized screen long enough for the Gun to get quite "hottish". Average time spraying a 120" diagonal screen was about 2.5 minutes.

The Hose Fed Turbines put out considerably more pressure. With the Wagner CS Plus, and the "No Name" (Earlex) sprayers, spraying the same size screen as mentioned above takes all of 45 seconds on average.

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Also, the plas tex has two sides, one is smoother. I assume to spray on smoothest side?

As previously stated...that's the side to use. I hope that the smooth side doesn't have defects. Parkland changed the way they produced that material after the demand for such as a "point & Shoot" projection surface caused them no end to logistical issues trying to meet such "spot' demand one sheet at a time. That, and the fact that they raised their price on it by 100% after labeling it as "Good For projection Screens" on their website in a obvious money grab. We all pretty much fled their business after that, and soon after that product was dropped in favor of the current material.

The last sheet of the Poly-Wall I saw had a nice, uniform "pebbly" surface on one side, but the "rear' has all sorts of small defects. Hopefully that's not the case in your instance.

Paint-wise...if you can optimize the PJ throws as previously mentioned, the standard RS MaxxMudd is good for modest ambient light, MaxxMudd LL for the Dark Room Theater,, and Silver Fire 3.0 for the other locations where ambient light might be considered a real issue to deal with.

Nice thing about the basic Reflective & Viscosity elements in RS-maxxMudd is that they are the same as what is used for Silver Fire. Only the addition of Colorant defines the real difference.

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post #20 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
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And so now we are back to blatantly suggesting Mfg Screen material, even though the OP had just suggested he was going to go with a DIY solution?

All the OP had to do was mention the inequities of the price of a Mfg Screen and Bang! Your off to the races. Just imagine what 4x the price of any such Mfg material from Stewart would amount to.

Read the title of the thread again. "One Paint".

And no matter what, going the DIY route the OP has been suggested is by far the most "practical", WAY less expensive, and capable of being made to be exactly what he needs / desires. His varying room applications demand that he tailor each screen for the environment it resides in. Only DIY solutions will offer him such a variety of applicable And affordable options.

Could you please point out in my response where I suggested a MFG screen? The OP mentioned the price of the Stewart screen and I was educating him on why they are so expensive. That goes for all MFG screens. If someone is put off by the price of the whole screen then they are entitled to know that if they DIY on the frame then the fabric can be had cheaper.

While you may be correct that it is more affordable, I have seen some really cheap prices from companies like Elite Screens.

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how much would the fabric be for a 92" screen? and where can it be bought? and how much?

And no offense taken, it's your guys input that helps me.

There really is no one right way, unless you are a physicist I suppose. There are just so many variables that lead up to the ideal result.

Theoretical vs practical, I'll take practical here.

No one around me cares that I calibrate my tvs, except me. Actually I have never met any one in my city who even know what an ISF calibration is, and everybody bullsh**ts about going green and then run there tv as bright as possible for its life...

The laws of physics are pretty well known. The only people trying to unsuccessfully rewrite them are on this forum.

I am not suggesting you look at a MFG screen, but if you are interested at your options, then call my buddy Mike Garrett here at AVS. He can give you good advice and recommend some options.

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post #21 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I have for locations, so I am going to mix it up, because I can and also just because I want to experiment.

1) paint silver fire 3.0 hopefully in next 5 days.
2) paint tbd-in man cave hav eto see how bright led rope lights will be in crown moulding
3) fabric- do u have any prices or a mftr
4) motorized projector.

then I will also convince a friend to get rid of his bedsheet and do a painted one, he won't want to spend a penny more than he has too.

You guys probably think I am nuts for a motorized projector, but there is a coolness factor to hitting a button and hiding it- ebay sure has some good prices, but need to do research on that in a couple of weeks.

I am really happy you guys are helping me. I wonder how many ppl will be influenced by me and get a projector. hehe
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post #22 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 07:01 PM
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You guys probably think I am nuts for a motorized projector, but there is a coolness factor to hitting a button and hiding it- ebay sure has some good prices, but need to do research on that in a couple of weeks.

yep. and we can help paint that thing to get the most out of it too!
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post #23 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 07:50 PM
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You can put paint on a screen that rolls up and it doesn't crack and flake off???


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post #24 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 08:15 PM
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yes sir. been doing it for years.
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post #25 of 32 Old 03-21-2012, 08:49 PM
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You can put paint on a screen that rolls up and it doesn't crack and flake off???

I doubt you are going to be able to do it with off the shelf paint. It would at least start to microfracture at some point. I have some coatings that are for an entirely different purpose that won't do this, but I am not sure I would go to the trouble of painting a roll up screen.

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post #26 of 32 Old 03-22-2012, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Could you please point out in my response where I suggested a MFG screen? The OP mentioned the price of the Stewart screen and I was educating him on why they are so expensive. That goes for all MFG screens. If someone is put off by the price of the whole screen then they are entitled to know that if they DIY on the frame then the fabric can be had cheaper.

Then the correct procedure "IF THE INQUIRE ABOUT IT THEMSELVES" is to send then over to "Screens" where they can obtain the info they seek. You went beyond simply "educating". You cannot get past the fact that the Stewart material is Mfg, and that the OP "DOES NOT" already posses it, nor did he even "suggest" he was interested...only in disbelief about it's price. What your talking about (suggesting) is something...planting a seed if you will..., that is not in keeping with the AVS mandated rule of DIY'ism. To do so opens up doors designated best closed between the two Forums. From that point, it's only another step or two before you see, as is already being seen on another thread, commentary about how "feckless" is it to attempt to even try to match Mfg Screen performance though creating something similar via DIY methods.

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The laws of physics are pretty well known. The only people trying to unsuccessfully rewrite them are on this forum.

There are a few others elsewhere you claim to do what is said cannot be done.The thing is the "naysaying" is being done by those who either do not try to go there, or simply refuse to consider such is possible, owing to past conventional thinking and accepted norms. Take the mfg. of the DNP Supernova. Their "claim" that their best screen can actually increase the "real" contrast of the image as not being met the discrediting retorts one sees coming from people around here who disavow the possibility that a DIY application might at least go some distance toward that goal. People rant about how you cannot "create" something that is not there...that a screen cannot "actively" change any particular part of an image, yet there it is, a major Mfg, whose screens are ISF rated, saying that their screen can increase the actual contrast on-screen by as much as 600%.

Simply put, your comments are intended to be degrading to people, and a discredit to the ideal that the DIY Forum can handle the needs of those who come looking for help through strictly DIY methods. But you should realize that by far the majority who read such things do in fact see them as such....only it's directed back at the commentator when it's done as it's being done.

We will continue going about our business of helping people when they ask for and need such.

What is it exactly that you are doing?

Quote:


I am not suggesting you look at a MFG screen, but if you are interested at your options, then call my buddy Mike Garrett here at AVS. He can give you good advice and recommend some options.

You are suggesting.....no, telling a poster who "IS NOT" looking for such an option to call to a Reseller (AVS otherwise). Trying to pit us against the Forum's interests is an old ploy. It never worked before and carries even less credence today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I doubt you are going to be able to do it with off the shelf paint. It would at least start to microfracture at some point. I have some coatings that are for an entirely different purpose that won't do this, but I am not sure I would go to the trouble of painting a roll up screen.

Another case in point. There have been a great many people who have successfully painted old Retractable paints with what are "Off the Shelf" paints. And for you to even suggest that your not fully aware of such stretches your credibility to the breaking point. A staunch advocate of doing such "Re-Coating" of Retractable s is Tiddler, and he applied such paints with a Roller, at thicknesses far heavier than anything that would ever come from a sprayed application. And isn't it strange but through all the time elapsed from that pint...and all the projects that have gone forward, that there hasn't been a single posting of "micro-fractures" or peeling? Not really.

Such negativism in your responses comes from a lack of actually ever having tried, and a supposition that it cannot work because of your "doubts". Well your wrong. And by saying such things you could effectively discourage a potential DIY'er from even considering a project that might mean very much to him.

That's not what we are here to do, but rather to encourage people to try. We don't just send them off to try something wholly unproven with a pat on the butt and a hopeful wish for success. There is not a single one of the applications we suggest that has not been done successfully repeated times.

There is a purpose behind what DIY stands for. What purpose are your comments serving?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #27 of 32 Old 03-22-2012, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I am non partisan in this topic. But I have asked a couple of times what the fabric costs. How much is it for a 92 inch screen worth of material? You must have some idea? I can tell you that I will try both. But, there is so much more flexibility in paint.

As a matter of fact, all fabric has color in it which is a form of paint.

What does MFG stand for?

I will also not entertain fabric if it is going to get into the hundreds, I just won't. Otherwise I will also try a fabric screen. But first is paint period.

I am wondering if I should have just got the $12 board instead of the Plas Tex? Will the plas tex sit fine with just one 1x4 in the middle? the twb seems stiffer.

I just wish I had some time to start assembly of the frame.
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-28-2012, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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why cant you take silverfire 3.0 on a painted block and take it to home depot and let them color match and see how their color match works against the original? i say this because it is going to be alot of fun to try to get all the pieces for the silverfire 3.0 make up. If home depots copy is a very close match i would be tempted to try that first.
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post #29 of 32 Old 03-28-2012, 06:30 PM
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what you're basically talking about is a color matched gray shade. But that is all it would be. Silver fire is a mix that consist of several components, 3 of which I have specific reflective materials contained within.

No amount of color matching can duplicate the reflective properties. All you'll wind up with is a shade of gray.

Also, the colorant, a part of the mix that really adds the depth of the shade of gray, consists of 4 separate tint components, all in suspension, not a solution. That allows for what's in there's to be a shade of gray, but also to actually have individualy active components.

That isn't going to happen with a sample color match either.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #30 of 32 Old 04-04-2012, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there not any local store at which I can buy this pearl other than menards or online? I am on west coast.
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