play safe, spray safe - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mandarax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 2,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
When you are going to spray a screen you should budget for and allow for a proper respirator. Spray painting can be a lot more hazardous than conventional painting using brushes. The active ingredients in many conventional paints are relatively inert (with the exception of high VOC oil paints), but in Spray Painting paint, binder, pigment, and solvent droplets are finely atomized, and this spray mist is EASILY inhaled and absorbed into the body. Exposure to concentrated spray paint fumes can lead to neurological shock, and suffocation in extreme cases. Toxic dangers are not just presented by the highly concentrated solvent and propellant fumes coming out of a spray can (or a spray gun), but also by toxic pigments that can be much more easily absorbed by the human body when sprayed.


If I look at the Behr Paint that I see recommended here I can go to the website and look up the msds information sheet on the product.

What do I find..?? Basically I don'[t want to inhale anything with a Health warning on it.


Product Name: Premium Plus® Interior Flat Enamel Ultra Pure White® No. 1850
Product Code: 1850
MSDS Manufacturer Number: 1850
Manufacturer Name: BEHR Process Corporation
Address: 3400 W. Segerstrom Avenue
Santa Ana, CA 92704
General Phone Number: (714) 545-7101
General Fax Number: (714) 241-1002
Customer Service Phone Number: (800) 854-0133 ext. 2
CHEMTREC: For emergencies in the US, call CHEMTREC: 800-424-9300
Canutec: In Canada, call CANUTEC: (613) 996-6666 (call collect)
MSDS Creation Date: January 30, 2007
MSDS Revision Date: December 30, 2011
MSDS Format: According to ANSI Z400.1-2004

NFPA
1
1 0



HMIS
Health Hazard 1
Fire Hazard 1
Reactivity 0
Personal Protection
* Chronic Health Effects

SECTION 2 - COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Chemical Name CAS# Ingredient Percent
Silica, crystalline - cristobalite 14464-46-1 1 - 5 by weight
Titanium dioxide 13463-67-7 10 - 30 by weight
Water 7732-18-5 30 - 60 by weight
Coalescing aid Proprietary 1 - 5 by weight
Styrene/acrylic copolymer No data 1 - 5 by weight
P(BA/MMA) 25852-37-3 10 - 30 by weight
Silica, amorphous, precipitated and gel 112926-00-8 1 - 5 by weight
Proprietary No data 1 - 5 by weight
Nepheline Syenite 37244-96-5 5 - 10 by weight
Aluminum hydroxide 21645-51-2 1 - 5 by weight
SECTION 3 - HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Emergency Overview: Irritant.
Potential Health Effects:
Eye: May cause irritation.
Skin: May cause irritation.
Inhalation: Prolonged or excessive inhalation may cause respiratory tract irritation.
Ingestion: May be harmful if swallowed. May cause vomiting.
Chronic Health Effects: Prolonged or repeated contact may cause skin irritation.
Signs/Symptoms: Overexposure may cause headaches and dizziness.
Target Organs: Eyes. Skin. Respiratory system. Digestive system.
Aggravation of Pre-Existing Conditions: None generally recognized.
SECTION 4 - FIRST AID MEASURES
Eye Contact: Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for 15 to 20 minutes. Get medical attention, if irritation or symptoms of overexposure persists.
Skin Contact: Immediately wash skin with soap and plenty of water.
Get medical attention if irritation develops or persists.
Inhalation: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration or give oxygen by trained personnel. Seek immediate medical attention.
Ingestion: If swallowed, do NOT induce vomiting. Call a physician or poison control center immediately. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.

*******************************************************
From the Health and Wellness .. website.

A serious solvent abuse among teens, and some adults, is called "Huffing". This is where paint fumes, especially from spray paints, are deeply inhaled. The toxins enter the blood stream quickly and then are distributed throughout the brain and body. The fumes have a direct effect on the central nervous system consisting of the brain and spinal cord giving the person a high. Every huff is dangerous and can lead to brain damage, or worse Sudden Sniffing Death (SSD). SSD can occur when the inhaled fumes take the place of oxygen in the lungs and brain of the central nervous system.

Doctors have found correlations with over-exposure of paint fumes contributing to chronic or terminal illnesses related to the brain. One is called "the burning brain" effect, which is an exposure to a combination of toxic fumes or heavy metals found in a number of materials including lead-based paint or spray paint used for painting automobiles. When exposed to this combination of toxic fumes or solvents, over a period they may cause what doctors refer to as a synergistic effect, or greater effect than absorbing just one toxin. Since toxins in the brain cause free radical damage, inflammation occurs forming holes in the blood-brain barrier and stimulating a burning sensation. In order to relieve this inflammation and burning the toxins must be removed; however, there still may be some form of permanent brain damage afterwards, usually to the central nervous system. Other serious medical problems that can possibly develop from over-exposure to paint fumes are autoimmune diseases such as Multiple Sclerosis, brain cancer, and Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease.

Knowing the potential hazard of exposure to paint fumes, you'll want to take every precaution with your painting project, big or small. You should always use a respirator when painting and have proper ventilation. It is best to seal off the room or area you are painting to keep fumes from floating into other areas. Wearing thick chemical resistant gloves is a good way to prevent paint from getting on your hands and toxins absorbing into the skin. Also, you should wear full clothing to prevent further skin exposure, and change your clothes directly after painting. If possible, you should try to avoid the painted area for at least two days.

*********************************************************

From Public Health and Social Services. USA

Before You Paint

Choose water-based over oil-based paint whenever possible.

Select the least toxic, lowest VOC paints available, especially for indoor paint jobs. Ask at your paint store for help.
Read the labels carefully before you buy. Even latex, low-VOC paints can contain toxic ingredients.
Read all the directions on the label and follow them carefully.
Avoid spray painting.
Do not use exterior paint indoors.
Test for lead on any surfaces that were painted more than 20 years ago. Use lead-safe preparation methods.
Turn off air conditioning and cover with plastic. Air conditioners do not filter indoor air.
********************************************************


From Liquitex..

we always recommend that at the very least a good particle mask be worn while spraying. Without a mask, pigment and acrylics particles can enter the lungs and are not good for the health. This applies to any water based paint. Wagner spray guns may not seem to have loose air but all spray guns do emit particle vapors.

If you are spraying our mineral spirits based Soluvar Varnish than and OSHA approved mask for filtering solvents must be worn.

I hope this helps.

Herman Reich, Liquitex Technical Support, ColArt Americas, 11 Constitution Avenue, Piscataway, New Jersey, 08855, USA Phone 800 445 4278 X 6189
*********************************************************


If you basically look at the paints being recommended in this area you will note that even the most innocent of paints has a MSDS warning for inhaling.

This is not a joke and should be taken seriously. You should seal off areas completely when spraying inside.
*******************************************************

There have been some very highly rated risk products with metals and automotive paints,, There as been some outside sign paints and yes it is more dangerous but painting without the proper mask and properly sealing off an area and properly ventilating a site is no joke and should be taken seriously. If you can't put a proper respirator in your budget then you should not be SPRAYING a screen.

******************************************************

I don't want to debate this as it is so simple to look up the facts.
mandarax is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 08:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
Kirnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

When you are going to spray a screen you should budget for and allow for a proper respirator.

Absolutely! I go with the overkill and replace the filters and charcoal inserts in my respirator before every spray job. Very cheap insurance. You get one body in this life, take care of it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



[URL=http://
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kirnak is offline  
post #3 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 08:40 AM
Moderator
 
prof55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
As with any DIY forum, the responsibility for personal safety lies solely with the individual. That said, I am not personally aware of any popular formulas here that contain anything particularly hazardous. Most products (such as Behr and Liquitex) are water based, and have HMIS ratings of 0 to 1. They are designed for consumers, and when used according to their label they are considerably less hazardous than the power saw one might use to make a screen frame.

Still, I would encourage DIY'ers to actually read the label and heed any warnings on the products they use. Perhaps an interested member might compile a list of the ingredients of popular DIY formulas along with links to their MSDS sheets and post it here for quick reference. This might be a good project for you, Mandarax. I'm sure it would be appreciated.
prof55 is offline  
post #4 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 09:09 AM
Member
 
wolegib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Sounds like painting is almost as dangerous as second hand smoke!!
wolegib is offline  
post #5 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 11:22 AM
Member
 
Hank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 13
wow - what a long post pasting
Hank is offline  
post #6 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 11:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolegib View Post

Sounds like painting is almost as dangerous as second hand smoke!!

What if you do both?
smokarz is offline  
post #7 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 12:29 PM
Member
 
wolegib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
LOL...

I used google earth and located Maurice doing just this

http://www.streetviewfun.com/2011/ma...smoking-cigar/


MM could you not decide on gray or white so you did both??
wolegib is offline  
post #8 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mandarax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 2,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post

As with any DIY forum, the responsibility for personal safety lies solely with the individual. That said, I am not personally aware of any popular formulas here that contain anything particularly hazardous. Most products (such as Behr and Liquitex) are water based, and have HMIS ratings of 0 to 1. They are designed for consumers, and when used according to their label they are considerably less hazardous than the power saw one might use to make a screen frame.

Still, I would encourage DIY'ers to actually read the label and heed any warnings on the products they use. Perhaps an interested member might compile a list of the ingredients of popular DIY formulas along with links to their MSDS sheets and post it here for quick reference. This might be a good project for you, Mandarax. I'm sure it would be appreciated.

I took the msds warning direct from the Behr paint listed in one of the recipes. I also provided the recommendation directly from Liquitex as it relates to spraying paint. The verbiage is basic to understand if you actually read the label or the copy of the message provided from Liquitex.

The use of protective equipment may look pointless. Trying to diminish the harm for family members exposed to it and the person spraying paint is just being reckless. You won't find a paint that is safe for spray painting without a respirator. Its really that simple. So the message is wear a proper respirator and turn off the air conditioner when spraying and also close off the area that you are spraying in all directions. Make sure you budget for proper protective equipment. When I spray I always wear a respirator and I always wear a disposable suit hat and mask.

Spray painting safety can be ensured by taking some simple measures, thus making spray painting fun, instead of hazardous. You just will not find a paint product that is safe spray painting. The msds warning is relevant to inhaling. When you spray paint the mist or particles that are in the air are impossible not to inhale without a proper respirator unless you are dead and not breathing. Effects that are written like the burnt brain are not immediate but all the hazards are real. You take the product you inhale and they get absorbed into your tiny blood cells.

Its common sense. Besides the commercial activity here its just a bunch of guys trying to have fun. Don' t diminish that by minimizing the hazardous effects of spraying unprotected. You won't find any message that is contra this message of safety from anyone, anywhere unless they already have a burnt brain. The reason I point it out is that I don't see any budgets for protective equipment. I don't see the people promoting products wearing protective equipment. I don't see people taking any precautions for their families exposed to the airborn hazard when spraying. So its definitely a message that needs to be heard again.

Don't take my word for it. Do some research. If you can't find something that is contra what I am saying then I would put up a short consolidated message that has a concise message warning about the hazards with spray painting as a sticky in the section of the forum. The analogy of the risk of using a power saw is not really a good message if you actually do spend the time to read what ANY manufacturer will state about SPRAY painting. Your analogy is in opposition to the very manufacturer MSDS label I already povided (behr MSDS), and the Liquitex company message, and the public health warnings. I would caution people due to the mixed message here to actually go and do your own research.
mandarax is offline  
post #9 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 06:23 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,934
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 224
Mandarax,

Personally speaking, from years of experience advising DIY'ers, I know of not one single instance out of literally over a Thousand, that the DIY'er was not advised that the use of a "Paint Vapor Related" Dual Respirator Mask (3M 0r Equivalent) was absolutely essential..

Some few have gone on to use Single Diaphragm Face/Nose Cups, but that was always their choice.

In an earlier post on at least two separate Threads, you inferred that such advice has not been- was not being given, and as such that a gross injustice by us was done to the DIY'er, leaving him at risk. I believe every single DIY'er on this Forum would dispute that, and will validate that the use of a good Dual Respirator Mask has always been a prerequisite.

Also, experience using the varied and carious Mixes advocated on this Forum has always centered around both the conspicuous use of High Volume/Output HVLP guns, and since 09-2008, such Guns have been Electric units that possessed 2mm Tips.

These Guns have been delivering extremely diluted Paint, up to 33% added Water. As such, the amount of material that exits the nozzle is so focused (a "solid" 8" - 12" vertical pattern ) and the "wetness" of the paint alloted for a degree of "paint bounce" so restrained, that compared to conventional Pressure Fed HVLPs, there was at most only 25% as much vapor in the air as was encountered in the past.

And....when a mix is properly diluted, and sprayed in the manner that many hundreds have been successfully instructed, a 120" diagonal Screen receives a complete coating in just under a minute. This vastly shorter amount of application time (...as compared to 3.5-4 min with conventional HVLP...) also helps contribute to a much safer work environment.

Is there no Paint dust? Of course not. Is it advised to spend a very small sum for 12' x 9' x .7 mil sheets to cover the room's furniture surfaces. Always. One must wonder as to if, before you started posting all these dire warnings, that you really ever bothered to overview both the instructional Threads, or the posted experiences of actual End Users. Of so, then your posts were quite redundant. If not, then a good deal of review by yourself is obviously in order.

Please note, that in each and every one of the spray videos I have scattered throughout many Threads (...some on specific Threads authored by me for the express purpose of instructing others on technique and procedure....) you will NEVER see me spraying without a Mask...a "Good" mask.

Lastly, due to far less "Wet Vapor" bouncing off the Screen surface, and the fact that DIY'ers are instructed to hold the Gun at least 14" from the surface, that places their bodies at over 3' from the wall. I myself have painted with short sleeves and have never seen more than a slight dusting on my forearms. So (...and I do not advise doing such...) one could effectively paint a Screen buck-nekked and NEVER have any concerns about toxicity issues arising involving cellular osmosis from Paint over-saturation on skin.

Now I "have" seen paint dust collect on my shoes, (...the majority of any "Bounce" falls primarily down to the Floor because almost instantly, the paint vapor drys to a dust-like consistency....) Now in most cases, some dust will be found on surfaces toward the rear of the room if adequate exhaust ventilation is not provided. And the odor from painting Acrylic / Polyurethane can linger if the air isn't exchanged to at least some degree. But with any degree of care, it's just not a problem if allowed for because the Water Based paints used are not toxic not do they remain suspended indefinitely in the air.

So you see, there are no issues that have not been thoroughly addressed, potential concerns that have not been allowed for, and corrective and advisory information not imparted.

I will venture this one thing. I would be glad to author a Sticky that is dedicated to the necessities required to both effectively spray paint any screen surface safely, and paint it correctly. That way...with the information up in plain sight and easily acquired, there will be no need for any future postings that warn DIY'ers of the calamitous dangers involved in doing what is a Safe, Easy, Inexpensive, and Correct method to achieve a nearly perfect Screen surface.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #10 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 06:28 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,934
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolegib View Post

LOL...

I used google earth and located Maurice doing just this

http://www.streetviewfun.com/2011/ma...smoking-cigar/


MM could you not decide on gray or white so you did both??

That's not me.....that man is using a Brush.

.....besides, I don't remember being in Spain in 2011

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #11 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 07:12 PM
Member
 
wolegib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

one could effectively paint a Screen buck-nekked and NEVER have any concerns about toxicity issues arising involving cellular osmosis from Paint over-saturation on skin.

Great....now I cant get this mental picture out of my head
wolegib is offline  
post #12 of 12 Old 04-04-2012, 09:43 PM
Moderator
 
prof55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
My reference to the dangers of a power saw vs the dangers of water based paint vapor inhalation was (as I'm sure the sensible reader will agree) not intended to diminish the potential risks of either activity.

On the other hand, I fail to see the necessity of including admonitions against "huffing", an activity that I doubt holds much favor with the average home theater enthusiast.

That said, we'll consider the warnings given - and the discussion over.
prof55 is offline  
Closed Thread DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off