My recent experience with spandex as a screen and some questions - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 60 Old 07-09-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Testimonials abound on this Thread and other related Threads. I don't think there is much as far as published Tests, simply because it's usually the people who make such materials / Screens to sell, and those who buy them and wind up spending more...a lot more, who conduct such tests to .....

Right. my hope was to find simple frequency response measurements with spandex, seymour center stage xd (which i was going to go with prior to learning about spandex) and plain speaker. there are many people on this board who have the tools and know-how.

My current screen is visual apex fixed frame so my expectations for PQ are fairly low, I suspect that both spandex and seymour fabric can do as good or better. But I do want the best sound quality I can afford (which is not a lot).

I just ordered some Moleskin Matte spandex and 24"x24" sample of center stage XD. I'll try to take the measurements myself and post results here.
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post #32 of 60 Old 07-09-2012, 01:58 PM
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post #33 of 60 Old 07-31-2012, 02:14 PM
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It sounds like stretching spandex ~50% would be okay. I was thinking of ordering 1 yard (36 x 60) each of white and silver and stretching it onto my 100" frame (49 x 87). Would that be too much stretch?

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post #34 of 60 Old 07-31-2012, 02:22 PM
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I recently built a 120" diagonal screen (111"x 47") and ordered two yards of the moleskin silver spandex. I really had to stretch it in order to make the width of 111". I would recommend ordering two yards.
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post #35 of 60 Old 07-31-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahajr143 View Post

I recently built a 120" diagonal screen (111"x 47") and ordered two yards of the moleskin silver spandex. I really had to stretch it in order to make the width of 111". I would recommend ordering two yards.

Good to know, thanks ahajr.

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post #36 of 60 Old 07-31-2012, 05:37 PM
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I just built a 138" screen and ordered 3 yards of the Silver and White. I am very glad I did... It didn't have to be stretched a ton but the extra fabric allows you to be a little less precise and less on the verge of pulling to much. Just my .02 and the extra $24 was worth it. I have been using push pins to mount to the frame for now while I test out the 4 different variations and it is much easier to work with.

If you are not going as large as mine then I would think 2 yards would suffice if you knew exactly how you wanted to mount as ahajr143 stated
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post #37 of 60 Old 08-01-2012, 07:54 AM
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I bought 3 yards for my 120" screen. I had plenty left over, but I'm glad I bought the extra as 2 yards would have been a little too much stretch. Enough light passes through the material as it is.
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post #38 of 60 Old 08-01-2012, 01:17 PM
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I neglected to mention my two yards of silver spandex in over three yards of white spandex that I got on sale at Hancock fabrics. It had even more stretch than the matte moleskin silver spandex from Spandex World because it contains 20% spandex.
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post #39 of 60 Old 08-07-2012, 01:04 PM
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I finally got around to measuring Moleskin and Seymour center stage XD material.

the measured spectrum was 2kH to 20kHz, basically covering only my compression driver. I think anything below should not be significantly affected by either material and it is much easier to gate the measurements if low frequencies are out of the equation.

I have to note that my CD rolls of heavily after 12kHz so it is difficult to identify any effects at higher frequencies.

I could not use the same makeshift frame for both fabrics because it was not strong enough to hold the Moleskin stretched. I'll try to do more controlled measurements some time this week.

My first results look very promising for Moleskin.

The acoustical effect of the two fabrics is different - Center Stage causes comb filtering and Moleskin attenuates the sound with minimal or no comb filtering, probably because it has more uniform texture. AFAIK simple signal attenuation is a better problem to have, it can be easily fixed by EQ. CB on the other hand is not curable (though the CB I observed with Seymour is likely inaudible any way).

the level of attenuation by Moleskin is depended on how stretched it is. When it's almost lose it was approx -3db across the measured spectrum. When I made it tighter it became almost fully transparent. I fact the results looked better than with the grille cover!

Since I could not use the frame for Moleskin I simply draped the whole speaker, tightly wrapping the waveguide with it.
When used on the screen there will be a t least few inches distance between the speaker and the fabric. This may change acoustic properties, making it more reflective, especially off-axis. That's why I want to repeat the measurements using a frame.


But I have to say I am pleasantly surprised by what I am seeing so far.
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post #40 of 60 Old 08-08-2012, 08:39 AM
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Excellent Zheka, and thanks for doing some testing. It will be interesting to see/hear what you find out when you get the spandex on a frame.
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post #41 of 60 Old 08-08-2012, 09:16 AM
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Is the only advantage of the spandex its AT? I.e., how does it compare to something like blackout cloth purely on image quality?
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post #42 of 60 Old 08-08-2012, 12:59 PM
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It would all depend on the color of the material. With the grey spandex you are getting a more "high contrast grey" than with the blackout cloth. If they were the same color, I have to think the BOC would be better as it doesn't let any light though.
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post #43 of 60 Old 08-09-2012, 08:24 AM
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Even when the spandex is backed (with silver if using white spandex)?
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post #44 of 60 Old 08-09-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Even when the spandex is backed (with silver if using white spandex)?

That is where the difference comes in. The spandex backed with a different color material changes the way the picture looks because it isn't the same as if you were just using a white spandex vs. BOC of the same color. BOC is BOC unless you paint it, which will then change the way picture looks due to the change in the material color. If this is to be an apples to apples discussion the color of all material would have to be the same. Changing anything about the color (which backing spandex will do) changes things in a way that will skew the results.

I realize that is a VERY basic explanation, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say. If you don't need an AT screen then I would just go with a solid material for the simple fact that it won't let light through which diminishes PQ.
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post #45 of 60 Old 09-25-2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

I finally got around to measuring Moleskin and Seymour center stage XD material.
...My first results look very promising for Moleskin. ...
zheka, were your tests with one layer of spandex only? I'm just curious how two layers would measure.

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post #46 of 60 Old 09-27-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane T View Post

zheka, were your tests with one layer of spandex only? I'm just curious how two layers would measure.

+1

one or two layer of spandex?
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post #47 of 60 Old 09-27-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

+1
one or two layer of spandex?

He used a single layer draped and wrapped over his Speaker.

With two overlaid layers, the rear being White stretched very tightly and the forward material being normally stretched Silver Moleskin, the cumulative total attenuation and filtering would fall neatly into the realm of being totally acceptable to everyone not making judgements based solely on minute differences shown only with precise measurements.

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post #48 of 60 Old 09-28-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane T View Post

zheka, were your tests with one layer of spandex only? I'm just curious how two layers would measure.

I used one layer.

Unfortunately I did not have time to do any more measurements. At this point I have my screen frame fitted with spandex but it is still wall mounted. Once i set it up as AT I will do more tests and perhaps play with the backers.

There is one observation regarding the picture quality I'd like to share that maybe relevant to the multilayer setups.
I think the reason for the perceived lack of sharpness in my case may be a small gap between the spandex and the wall behind it. Even though my wall is painted dark brown there is still some reflection that gets thrown back on the screen that contributes to the wash out effect. I suspect this won't be a problem once I move the screen away from the wall. It maybe important to keep this in mind when working with multiple layers because any gaps between the layers may have the same effect.
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post #49 of 60 Old 09-28-2012, 07:33 AM
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That's good to know.

So, you're screen has only one layer?

Do you plan to add another layer to it?
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post #50 of 60 Old 09-28-2012, 07:42 AM
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I might give it a try eventually. But I decided to wait with the experiments until I can mount the screen away from the wall.
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post #51 of 60 Old 10-05-2012, 03:26 PM
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Looks like the matte silver is out of stock.

anyone tried white over black?
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post #52 of 60 Old 10-30-2012, 04:02 PM
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Excellent thread. I want to know the answer to the question below as well please!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJPete View Post

Should the black be stacked right behind the white or offset a little bit? In other words: frame, black, white?
I'm probably going to try a silver version with my 8350.

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post #53 of 60 Old 10-31-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Excellent thread. I want to know the answer to the question below as well please!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJPete View Post

Should the black be stacked right behind the white or offset a little bit? In other words: frame, black, white?
I'm probably going to try a silver version with my 8350.

Tthe Top layer should rest against the Bottom layer. NO space between.

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post #54 of 60 Old 10-31-2012, 11:17 AM
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Brilliant. Thanks MM.

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post #55 of 60 Old 10-31-2012, 02:03 PM
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I have a computer dedicated to audio measurements (I build speakers) with a calibrated microphone and a bunch of great software. If someone would like to send me a sample of the spandex I can measure it against grill cloth, Dazien, Seymour AV and a sample piece of Jet Set I bought from Jo-Ann Fabrics yesterday. A piece 1 foot square should do the trick (2 pieces if you want me to test a doubled up setup as well) and should fit into a standard envelope just fine. If anyone is down, shoot me a PM.
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post #56 of 60 Old 11-01-2012, 01:59 PM
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Any idea where I can get this in Canada? I've been putting off making a curved screen for long enough, damnit. If the price is right, I'm in and I'd love to share the outcome.

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post #57 of 60 Old 11-02-2012, 10:00 AM
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Well in Alberta you can have a look at Fabricland. I know there are stores in both Edmonton and Calgary.
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post #58 of 60 Old 11-02-2012, 11:02 AM
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Yeah, they have Fabricland stores in BC, so I think I'll check them out first before resigning myself to having to order from the US.

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post #59 of 60 Old 11-24-2012, 11:18 AM
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Been a while since I updated, but I finally got the black spandex for the back and all I can say is WOW. PQ got a bit better and little to no light leakage now. IMHO there is no audible difference between a single layer and two. Measurements may show a difference (would be surprised if they didn't) but I can't hear it so I'm happy. Can't recommend a dual layer spandex screen enough if you want a cheap DIY alternative. Thanks to MM and everyone else that helped me along the way.
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post #60 of 60 Old 11-27-2012, 06:49 PM
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Im assembling the parts for my AT Screen.

I bought the 82-18% spandex white from Joanns, but will be buying the moleskin matte silver from spandexworld.

The question I have is , how do you assemble the black frame around the screen? I know to use the triple black velvet, but how are people attaching it to the screen?
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