Help choosing a DIY screen paint in the UK - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-08-2012, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
judderod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi all,

I've been busy reading about all the great sucesses many have had with the DIY screen paint formula's available here. Credit to all the developers - the paints look like a huge triumph for the DIY community smile.gif

I had made a decidion to go with SF2.5/5.0, but have since found that some of the paints aren't available here in the UK. I think I can source Liquitex Basics from a local art shop, but Minwax Polycrylic, Rustoleum Metallic Accents, and Behr paints of any description just don't seem to exist here. The biggest names in paint over here are Dulux and Crown.

I have a Panasonic AX200 (quite old but I've taken it to pieces and cleaned up all the lenses, mirrors and polarizers, and will be getting a new bulb very soon). Its throw is 3.5m, projecting about 90 inches. Currently I'm using a canvas picture that mounts over an aluminium frame as a temporary screen while I decide what to do. I've flipped the canvas over so I'm projecting onto the un-printed white side. It looks pretty good but the surface is rough so not so good up close, and you can just about make out the picure on the reverse during bright scenes (oops)!

The room is about 4m x 3.5m and has 1 large window just behind the ceiling mounted projector (opposite the screen). The ceiling is white and reflection immediately above the screen is a problem with the current white screen. The walls are cream/white. The curtains are complete blackout but there is still some light leakage during the day around the top and sides. At night the room can be brought to almost total darkness, with only the light reflected from the projector off the screen and walls causing illumination.

Painting the room darker isn't an option so I intend to upgrade to a Panasonic AR100/AH100 to up the brightness to 2800 lumens (50000:1) within the next couple of years. I find the automatic light harmonizer on these Panasonic models best for easy family use within a bright living room.

Can anyone suggest what I should do for a screen paint/material? I'm not far from an industrial area where the big names in paint over here can mix to any required colour. Perhaps I could take the specs of something like the Behr to them and ask them to make it up?

PS. I'm not a great fan of the film, but Cowboys & Aliens really showed up the weaknesses of my setup - some of that film is very dark!
judderod is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-08-2012, 01:44 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,246
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 254
Hi Judderod!

Welcome to AVS DIY Screens! How's everything in Ol' Blighty? wink.gif

Are you in / close to London? If so I can steer you to a few locations where you can see some humongous sized DIY Screens in operation in high ambient light conditions. Pubs / Football / Rugby Clubhouses and the like. Tell any of 'em to pull you a pint and send me the tab. They'll love that.... wink.gif

You can use Dulux Light & Space "Matte" (Lumitech) for your "white' and there are a few Water based Clear Satin Polyurethane "Floor varnishes" that will work. (I've been over there and that's what I used for any / all screens that were made...)

The Rustoleum Metallic Accents Pearl....you'll have to order that online. If you have any issues, PM me and acquire it for you and get it to you via USPS Priority International Flat Rate.

As for Substrate....consider a Acrylic Plastic Mirror. (3mm thick)Strangely....they seem to be far more abundant in large sizes and reasonably priced in the UK these days than here in the US. Using a Mirror allows you to use a much darker shade of Gray without overt attenuation. Light Fusion, don'tcha know. Most all the biggest screens in high ambient light situations I previously referred to are such.

Beyond that, Smooth, Expanded PVC Foam board is the next best thing to consider. Also known as "Sign Board", it's made to apply paint directly to. It will more than suffice.

Lastly, be advised that all the most effective DIY Screen paint applications require...nay, demand that they be sprayed. Wagner makes/sells a version of the same Electric HVLP Gun we use (Control Spray) but over there it's called the W500 or something close. Just do a search for "Wagner Electric HVLP' on yur UK-based Search Engine and it'll pop up.

Throughout the process, post up any / all questions or concerns before they become "past tense" ones. We are here to help, and although we can and will also provide damage control...it's a lot better to be pro-active as far as getting all the info you need before issues arise.

Now go out and quaff a Black & Tan for me, will ya?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
judderod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Granddad!

Blighty is good, Olympic crazy and strangely warm today.

I'm in South London, AKA Saaaaaf Laandon mate. I'd love to see some DIY screens in action - please do tell smile.gif

Thanks for your suggestions on suitable alternative paints. Regarding acrylic mirror, I'm fairly sure I could source some of that, but getting a huge sheet of it to my house without damaging it, now that's another thing. Also I'm a bit concerned about painting something like that - wouldn't the paint coat have to be totally and completely even across the whole surface to ensure even reflection? Sounds a bit tricky!

Also would I be painting the acrylic with SF or just a flat gray?

I can indeed buy the paint sprayer over here. It looks like it'll come in at about £40 ($60).

You know something funny... I'm a member of CAMRA (campaign for real ale), have frequented many a beer festival, and have tried more than my fair share of local, national and continental brews. Strangely I have never come across a black & tan! Still, I'll be sure to give one a try and let you know a. the look on the bartender's face when I ask for one and b. how it tastes wink.gif
judderod is offline  
Old 08-14-2012, 04:03 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
judderod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
While I've been patiently waiting there has been a change of plan...

I'll soon be the recipent of an LG CF181D and will be replacing my existing Panasonic AX200. It's an ex-demo model used by LG themselves at exhibitions that came up for the lowest price I've ever seen one available for, with just a few hours on the bulb. I'm hoping it might even be a 'cream of the crop' sample, specially picked or factory calibrated to show off the line's capabilities. It also comes with a years warranty from an authorised LG retailer, so we decided to lay down the readies.

I'm thinking I might not need such a reflective screen after all. I've ordered a load of lycra/spandex, vinyl and poly/satin fabric samples to try out and will be comparing them to some flat grey computer print outs to check for zero colour offset before trying them as a screen material. Some of them are silver-ish so I'm thinking I might need to spray them grey, or perhaps cover them with a second layer of light dispersing material.

Any further advice would be much appreciated smile.gif
judderod is offline  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:55 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,246
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by judderod View Post

While I've been patiently waiting there has been a change of plan...

A patient Brit? What are you spiking your Tea with?
Quote:
I'll soon be the recipient of an LG CF181D and will be replacing my existing Panasonic AX200. It's an ex-demo model used by LG themselves at exhibitions that came up for the lowest price I've ever seen one available for, with just a few hours on the bulb. I'm hoping it might even be a 'cream of the crop' sample, specially picked or factory calibrated to show off the line's capabilities. It also comes with a years warranty from an authorized LG retailer, so we decided to lay down the readies.

The CF181D is a bright unit with a very pristine image. (SXRD panels...yea....) Contrast is pretty good considering it's level of Lumen output. If calibrated correctly for the screen in use, Colors can be pretty exacting in hue, and "Image PoP" quite delightful. That being said, it's a "BIG" machine (...though not as big as the humongous CF3D...)
Quote:
I'm thinking I might not need such a reflective screen after all. I've ordered a load of lycra/spandex, vinyl and poly/satin fabric samples to try out and will be comparing them to some flat grey computer print outs to check for zero colour offset before trying them as a screen material. Some of them are silver-ish so I'm thinking I might need to spray them grey, or perhaps cover them with a second layer of light dispersing material.
Any further advice would be much appreciated smile.gif

You should in fact be using a Silver Spandex (with no sheen) that is backed by a white spandex. Don't try to spray the Spandex. Just don't.

Much ado is made of the CF131D's brightness...and it's pretty good, but don't let it guide your thinking too much. The AX200U was / is no slouch on normal lamp and the difference between them is not all that much. Besides, to get the best color / contrast out of the 181 it should be run on Economy and calibrated at that output anyway.

Now on to important matters.

A Black & Tan is a Stout (...usually Guinness...) mixed with a Brown Ale or Dark Lager....50/50

Drink 4 pints and you won't care about how much your PJ's Color palette pops. Everything looks good. Even the Birds down in "old" SoHo.

But avoid the "Eye". The Windows don't open.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
judderod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

A patient Brit? What are you spiking your Tea with?
Complacency, a little procrastination and half a teaspoon of indifference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

That being said, it's a "BIG" machine (...though not as big as the humongous CF3D...)
The WAF was an issue here. I basically said the image will be so good you won't care or be looking at the big black box on the ceiling. If it's really bad I'll have to vinyl wrap it white or build a white hardboard box around it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

You should in fact be using a Silver Spandex (with no sheen) that is backed by a white spandex.
I think spandex is called lycra here. Anyway I've got a load of samples of thin stretchy stuff on the way and will try them all out. Can I use bright white BOC as a backing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Don't try to spray the Spandex. Just don't.
biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

A Black & Tan is a Stout (...usually Guinness...) mixed with a Brown Ale or Dark Lager....50/50
So do I strain that through a mesh or just mix it as is? Can it be rolled off the tongue or is it only suitable for quaffing? What about the environment, can I use it in a light room or just a dark and dingy oldy woldy kind of place?
judderod is offline  
Old 08-14-2012, 03:59 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,246
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by judderod View Post

Complacency, a little procrastination and half a teaspoon of indifference.

Don't choke on us. We find such a concoction hard to swallow. Around here, we just "Knock 'em back".
Quote:
The WAF was an issue here. I basically said the image will be so good you won't care or be looking at the big black box on the ceiling. If it's really bad I'll have to vinyl wrap it white or build a white hardboard box around it.

That's right....make it even bigger. best to just start out saying nothing, and let the Image quality you get do all the talking. It's amazing just how many Guys have lost control of the Big Screen once the Gals see those fangy Dudes on True Blood larger than life. tongue.gif
Quote:
I think spandex is called lycra here. Anyway I've got a load of samples of thin stretchy stuff on the way and will try them all out. Can I use bright white BOC as a backing?
Absolutely!
Quote:
biggrin.gif

Smile when you smile like that....Pardner.

Quote:
So do I strain that through a mesh or just mix it as is? Can it be rolled off the tongue or is it only suitable for quaffing? What about the environment, can I use it in a light room or just a dark and dingy oldy woldy kind of place?

The only straining should come from hoisting a large 3 Pint Stein full. Quaffing is best, letting it cascade over the Tongue. Any Rolling comes later. ( ...be sure to have the door opened first though...)

Have some light so you won't miss your lip, and besides, how many "Birds" can you see in the dark? (...if they start glowing though...it's time to go home...)

Dark and dingy old worldy kind of places are always best. Atmosphere is everything....especially if it's just after Noon. tongue.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
Old 09-07-2012, 02:32 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
judderod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the tips. Now I've actually sold my AX200 I can go on to say how dark it was... I bought it unknowingly off a smoker and the inside was coated with tar deposits and dust stuck to it. I spent a good few hours disassembling everything including the entire lens assembly to clean it all up. The only thing I couldn't get to was the prism/optic block because the LCD panels and polarizers sit too close to be able to clean it. I also think the person I got it off used a non-OEM bulb, many of which are rated at 1,000 hours instead of the usual 2,000. So it was desperately in need of a new bulb, which I know for sure now, having seen just how much brighter the LG is. Also I had begun to notice a slight fault where the image would go completely green for a fraction of a second, perhaps every hour or so. It was so fast that if you blinked it would be completely missed, but it put me off investing more money on the beast. Also in the service menu I found out it had done close to 6,000 hours! Not bad really for an LCD.

Anyway back on topic. So the LG is absoultely stunning compred to the Panny, not just in brightness but in just about everything else too. Now in a completely lit room, projecting onto a white screen, it's completely watchable, despite the blacks obviously being lost.

Now I went on to try out some of the fabric samples I received recently. One of them is a silver spandex/lycra that looks like a pretty light shade of grey. But I just can't get my head around using it as a projection material. We tried it out, and yes, all dark colours including black look, well darker... But all brighter colours look darker too, and white just doesn't pop and sparkle like it does on a white BOC. It feels like gaining 5% black level to loose 10-15% white, plus the hue and saturation of all lighter colours is reduced. Is that what others are experiencing or is it just I have the wrong fabric?

With regards to black levels on the LG projecting onto a white screen, well they're not absolute black that's for sure. But one thing that made me feel much better about it was looking out of the window at the night sky here, about 7 miles South of Central London. Space is significantly darker on my projector than it is for real here! That's good enough for me smile.gif
judderod is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off