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post #1 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone, I am building out my new HT, thread can be found : here.

About time for me to start thinking about the screen. With the room size being 11'x15', how far back should I sit? I am hearing 1x screen width, which I am at 10' back and not going to have a 10' wide screen. I was thinking about a 110-120" screen. I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-FPJ1 and according to the calculator, I should be able to handle that. I am also thinking about using sintra with the 3.25" MDF trim border that MississippiMan has made a staple here in the DIY section. Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this? Need some help! Thanks.


EDIT: Just got off the phone with Laird in my area. They have 5' X 10' sheets in 3mm and 6mm in stock. $80 for 3mm and $160 for 6mm. The new question is, can I get by with just 3mm? I don't want it to warp, but from the reading from MM, this stuff does not warp very easily. Especially since I will be just screwing it into the wall.
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post #2 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 09:26 AM
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I just finished my Sintra screen this weekend (RS-MaxxMudd LL). I paid $119 for the 5x10 6mm board and unless you feel like mounting the 3mm to an actual frame and/or hard piece of another substrate I would def recommend the 6mm. If you are going to mount directly to the wall (which it looks like you will) remember to see how flat the wall is, you might be able to get away with the 3mm, I couldn't due to waves in my wood paneling behind the board. If you are going to do a 122" screen (which is the largest you can go 16:9 with a 5x10' piece) remember to leave more than 107" so you can screw into the Sintra and not have to lose any of the real estate.

Even the 6mm has play and for mounting to my wall (which was not the flattest thing out there) it helped keep a good form without the need of mounting to another frame/substrate.

Another thing I would recommend is calling all of the Sign shops in your area and checking the price they can get it for. Remember to ask for another brand such as Komotex or any other Expanded PVC board to see if they have a lower price.
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post #3 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisanid View Post

Another thing I would recommend is calling all of the Sign shops in your area and checking the price they can get it for. Remember to ask for another brand such as Komotex or any other Expanded PVC board to see if they have a lower price.

Yeah...and ask Laird the same question. The price you received is Retail...way out of line IMO mad.gif

3mm is something that is fraught with added concerns and considerations. It's too thin to accept any adhesive except the thinnest, most evenly spread variety, and it cannot be hung around the edges only without the center bowing out. And as mentioned above, you have to adhere the 6mm to the wall with adhesive if you want the maximum screen size possible from a 10' x 5'er. If just the ends are screwed in place, it's still possible to get a slight bow at center. Adding some daubs of adhesive takes care of that..

I always suggest instead that a "ledge-board" be mounted on the wall, and the Sintra be placed up using "ONLY" adhesive. In that manner, and when the adhesive is dry, you just remove the "ledge" and apply your trim over the existing screw holes.

( I usually use a piece if MDF Trim I have bought for the Wrapped Trim as my ledge. Any screw holes are covered by the Velvet anyway...)


You can simply "Butt" the Trim edges against the side edges of the Sintra. If you leave 2" extra material at each end for screwing to the wall, the Trim must overlap that area and that will result in the end pieces of trim sitting 6mm higher than the long horizontal Trim pieces.

Now that can be corrected by using small cut pieces of the trimmed Sintra to shim out the edge areas around the Screen, so that all the Trim is sitting evenly on all sides. Be sure to use such around all sides of each corner as the Corners must both meet and be flat and even for a great looking, virtually invisible union..

Granted, screwing up each end does make being sure the Sintra stays up against the wall, but as stated, a little adhesive placed in the center of the screen wall goes a long way to effect a certain "Flat lay".


BTW...where is your "area"? Rarely, some locations do have substantially higher pricing...but even with that....from what you mentioned it seems like someone at that Laird branch is sending their Kids to College on your budget..... rolleyes.gif

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post #4 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Well since I made the post, I called a couple of other places and found the Sabic in my area JUST got an order for a job in of 180 pieces and they only needed 140, so they will have some left over. $78 for 6mm!! Not too bad! I actually work for FASTSIGNS, so gunna see if he will discount any more. I think I will go with this though. Might have gotten lucky.
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post #5 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 11:17 AM
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Sounds like a great luck in! If you can find it cheaper with FASTSIGNS then I think youve hit a DIY screen lottery. Seems like the going rate is around $90 for the 6mm if bought as non retail price. The next thing will be figuring out the paint mixture to use and grabbing a No Name paint sprayer here http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRACO-HV2900-39-CFM-450W-HVLP-House-Paint-Spray-Station-Machine-System-Painter-/230791007590?pt=Paint_Paint_Supplies&hash=item35bc374d66#ht_4670wt_1156 while you can.

Depending on your room treatment, ambient light and projector I'm sure MM will have a great recommendation for you as far as Silver Fire or RS-MuddMaxx is concerned, so spill the details smile.gif

I suggest the sprayer only because RS-MaxxMudd LL is the only DIY paint that can be rolled and it is always recommended to spray that application as well.
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post #6 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Alrightttttty then!! Just got off the phone with them again and got the 5' X 10' 6mm Sintra for $68 + tax! Placing the order today. I am pretty excited about that price. Now, just need to figure out my paint mixture. I will put in the order for the sprayer tonight. You can get more details about my room in my HT build thread. I am going to have a window in that room, but will have blackout shutters on it, so I would say little to no ambient light on the Pioneer which will have 600 ANSI lumens. What else would you need to know to determine paint type?
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post #7 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 01:13 PM
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Williamn,

Rs-MaxxMudd LL

Be sure the board you choose has at least 1 blemish free side, no scratches, no dents, no smears or stains.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #8 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 01:26 PM
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As stated above, inspect before you have them cut it so you aren't stuck with a piece that isn't fit for the application.

LL is the version I used over the weekend, you will not be disappointed! One of my buddies has been helping me along the way from the start and has seen the room go from the Epson 8100 on BOC to the Spandex Screen of all 4 variations I had and then the unpainted Sintra board. When he saw the screen an hour after the last coat (not even cured mind you!) he was speechless... As was I


Rust-Oleum paint can be found here
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EELN1Y/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I found everything else at Home Depot and Michael's (for the Liquitex Basics Silver, if you dont have a michaels close then you can find it on amazon as well)

This is a must as well. It goes in and out of stock very often so purchase while you can. http://www.amazon.com/Homax-69011-1-Gallon-PolyPro-Galvanized/dp/B000ELORFE/ref=pd_sim_hi_2

The reason I use amazon for most things is because I have prime so I get everything within one to two days. If for some reason you can not find the squirrel cage paint mixer (very essential so find it if you can!) let me know and I can point you in the direction of a separate one I had to use for the last batch.
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post #9 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 03:30 PM
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Micheal's Arts and Crafts has a 45% off Coupon that covers the needed Liquitex Basic Paint (Silver Metallic)

Check their website to print it out. Hurry though...it's good only until the 25th of this month.

As for me...I'm denuding the local supply in Memphis!

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post #10 of 75 Old 08-20-2012, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Micheal's Arts and Crafts has a 45% off Coupon that covers the needed Liquitex Basic Paint (Silver Metallic)
Check their website to print it out. Hurry though...it's good only until the 25th of this month.
As for me...I'm denuding the local supply in Memphis!

Can I get everything at Micheal's?

This the latest mixture?

RS-MaxxMudd LL (for lower lumen PJ's, and for completely controlled lighting)
16 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
10 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603
2 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
10 oz. UPW flat
14 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
10oz. distilled/tap water
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post #11 of 75 Old 08-21-2012, 04:35 AM
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That is not the latest mixture

RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1

20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
20 oz. distilled/tap water**

The only thing you can get at Michael's is the Liquitex

All others, other than the link I posted above for the Rostoleum, can be found at Home Depot. If you dont have a Home Depot then we have to figure out what you have around you to get the White Flat Enamel paint.
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post #12 of 75 Old 08-21-2012, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisanid View Post

That is not the latest mixture
RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1
20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat
12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
20 oz. distilled/tap water**
The only thing you can get at Michael's is the Liquitex
All others, other than the link I posted above for the Rostoleum, can be found at Home Depot. If you dont have a Home Depot then we have to figure out what you have around you to get the White Flat Enamel paint.

Will that be enough to do 3 coats of a 120" screen or at least a 110" screen? I do have a home depot, but I think, like you, I have amazon prime and can get it the next day, so will probably go that route, except the liquitex which I will use the 45% off for.
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post #13 of 75 Old 08-21-2012, 05:48 AM
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More than enough, I did 7 coats total with the above amounts mixed together and still have roughly 1/3 or the mixture sitting in a can waiting just in case some of my buddies get a little rowdy during a football game. They might not walk out of my house but I can at least make the screen right wink.gif

My screen is 122" and I went way to thick on the first coat so you will probably use less than what I did if you start out spraying correctly biggrin.gif

I would try and find the 1850 UPW at Home Depot as that is the known item to use. Shermin Williams and Lowes paints have been referenced in the RS-MaxxMudd official post but why change something you know works if you have availability to it

Minwax is actually cheaper at Home Depot by $2 (I know thats not much but if you have to go there anyway to look for the Behr, might as well pick it up cheaper)

You will have to buy the Rustoleum on Amazon though
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post #14 of 75 Old 08-22-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisanid View Post

That is not the latest mixture
RS-MaxxMudd LL v.2.1
20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat
12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
20 oz. distilled/tap water**
The only thing you can get at Michael's is the Liquitex
All others, other than the link I posted above for the Rostoleum, can be found at Home Depot. If you dont have a Home Depot then we have to figure out what you have around you to get the White Flat Enamel paint.


OK, so I think I have found everything, but just want to make sure I have the exact right products. Here is what I have gathered:

20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver - Michael's
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat
12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
20 oz. distilled/tap water** Hopefully I know were to find this! smile.gif

If everything looks right, I will go ahead and place the order through Amazon and then swing by Home Depot and Michael's tonight.
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post #15 of 75 Old 08-22-2012, 10:15 AM
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You got it, just remember to look for the old 1850 Flat Enamel in QT size that does not have the primer included if you can. It will stick out since it will not be in the newer label and look like the one you linked. The newer label is not as flashey.
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post #16 of 75 Old 08-22-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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So if my calculations are correct, I am at just a little over $200 for the screen. That is sintra, spray painter, and all paints. Plus I get a spray painter that I can use for other projects.
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post #17 of 75 Old 08-22-2012, 11:34 AM
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That was exactly my thinking on it too with the Sprayer, I had ceiling tiles and 3 rooms to spray so it more than paid for itself!

Do not forget the squirlle cage mixer from amazon I linked to above, it is necessary to mix the paint up well enough
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post #18 of 75 Old 08-22-2012, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisanid View Post

That was exactly my thinking on it too with the Sprayer, I had ceiling tiles and 3 rooms to spray so it more than paid for itself!
Do not forget the squirlle cage mixer from amazon I linked to above, it is necessary to mix the paint up well enough

Yes, I did add that to the order, thanks for that. I just got the order confirmation for the Sintra and it looks like he sold me the off-brand, which is Komatex. Will this matter too much?
POLYVINYLCHLORIDE-PVC SHEET KOMATEX
EXPANDED FOAM 0.236 IN THK 6MM 60 IN WIDE
120 IN LONG WHITE EXTRUDED S529146


That is the description.
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post #19 of 75 Old 08-22-2012, 03:22 PM
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It shouldn't be a problem at all as long as one side is smooth and white.
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post #20 of 75 Old 08-22-2012, 07:58 PM
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Same stuff. Different name/mfg.

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post #21 of 75 Old 08-27-2012, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, just picked up my Komatex today. Going to get the spray gun in here in the next few days. I went ahead and got it even though one side had a very small dent, but the other side had no dents, but did look like it had a dark dirt mark. Is there something I should clean it with before starting?
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post #22 of 75 Old 08-30-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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So I will have the rest of my materials (i.e. paint, sprayer) on Monday and wanted to get the substrate prepared. First, how do I prepare the surface. Secondly, if I wanted a 115" screen, how much would I have to leave for the border? I also have thought about doing a 2.35:1 screen. If I do this, can I make it convienient to watch all content, or do these just look OK with movies formatted for it? How do I calculate the exact dimensions? Would it be easier to mount it on the wall first, paint it, then border it, or do I have the order all wrong?
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post #23 of 75 Old 08-31-2012, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamn333 View Post

So I will have the rest of my materials (i.e. paint, sprayer) on Monday and wanted to get the substrate prepared. First, how do I prepare the surface. Secondly, if I wanted a 115" screen, how much would I have to leave for the border?

If 16:9 you'd want 2"...so leave the material at it's 60" height, and cut the length to 104"

Quote:
I also have thought about doing a 2.35:1 screen. If I do this, can I make it convenient to watch all content, or do these just look OK with movies formatted for it? How do I calculate the exact dimensions? Would it be easier to mount it on the wall first, paint it, then border it, or do I have the order all wrong?

It's just not a good idea with that Pioneer's low lumen output. To maintain a decent size 16:9 you'd want to have it (2.35:1 screen) be at least 48' high (113" wide) , and at 2.35:1, and even at that size you'd only be getting 9 fls at a mid-throw distance (17') which of course is impossible for you anyway . Closest possible throw? 13' = 12 fls Barely acceptable.

Lets speculate that you want to make a screen for the future. At 120" wide and 51" high (130" diagonal) you'll only be getting 10 fls with a 13' 9" throw (lens to screen) That fl level is also barely acceptable using the Pioneer, but as stated....the Future awaits, and your Screen would be sized to satisfy any PJ induced upgrade-itus.

......and yeah...mount the Panel, mask the surrounding areas, paint...the Trim using 3.25" MDF base wrapped in velvet.

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post #24 of 75 Old 08-31-2012, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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So in calculating my FLs, it looks like I need to move the projector pretty close to get enough with the lumen output of that pioneer. 9.3 FLs if I am doing 115" screen at about 14.5'. This seems low itself. Should I move it closer or what options do I have? How much gain should I get with the komatex and the MM? I will have to zoom a little to get it on a 115", so maybe I should go down to 110".
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post #25 of 75 Old 08-31-2012, 04:59 PM
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16:9 110" would be best, and at the throw distance at 11' 3" for 19 fls

RS-MM LL is approx 1.3 gain

Your gonna be very pleased with your end results if you embrace those parameters. cool.gif

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post #26 of 75 Old 09-01-2012, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

16:9 110" would be best, and at the throw distance at 11' 3" for 19 fls
RS-MM LL is approx 1.3 gain
Your gonna be very pleased with your end results if you embrace those parameters. cool.gif

Well in the 15' room, I am planning on building out a 2 ft. false or floating wall and then covering it with GOB. This would put the screen at about 10'8". At max zoom, I can get my 110" screen and still achieve 22 fls. My next question would be, does max zoom hurt the picture quality too terribly?
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post #27 of 75 Old 09-01-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamn333 View Post

Well in the 15' room, I am planning on building out a 2 ft. false or floating wall and then covering it with GOB. This would put the screen at about 10'8". At max zoom, I can get my 110" screen and still achieve 22 fls. My next question would be, does max zoom hurt the picture quality too terribly?

Dependent upon the quality of the lens, edge distortion (Barreling) is the most common issue, followed by a softer Focus at the edges.

Usually, if one saves approx. 10% of the "Max" Throw distance in reserve, with today's PJs with improved optics, that's not gonna be an issue.

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post #28 of 75 Old 09-01-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Dependent upon the quality of the lens, edge distortion (Barreling) is the most common issue, followed by a softer Focus at the edges.
Usually, if one saves approx. 10% of the "Max" Throw distance in reserve, with today's PJs with improved optics, that's not gonna be an issue.


So, the max throw distance on this projector is 20', so you are saying as long as I am within 18', I am OK?
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post #29 of 75 Old 09-01-2012, 08:59 PM
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Let me rephrase that correctly. Stay outside 10% of The "minimum throw"

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post #30 of 75 Old 09-22-2012, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Alight, just got the screen wall painted. Went with a espresso bean color, which is a very dark brown. It can be seen below. I know I need to touch it up at the bottom, but you get the idea.


I just have a quick question about the sintra mounting/painting. What length truss screws should I use? Also, the side mounting do not line up with studs, so is it ok just to put the truss screws straight into the drywall? Lastly, I bought the stuff for the MM mixture (see additional pic), and the trim did not have an indention that the sintra can "sit" in like I thought it would. Based on your above post, it looks like you say I can just fill in the gap with sintra trimmings, is that what you were referring to above? If so, would it actually look bad to just have the trim cover 2" of the sintra and leave 1 3/4"?






Edit: Crap, just realized I left the Metallic Accents out. Darn it.
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