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post #31 of 36 Old 10-05-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

If you want to consider a solution, get a 1.5 mm Needle as I'm certain the bigger 2.0 version is the root cause of your issue. It's of little comfort to you now, but from now on I'm going to suggest that while the Graco can be had for so low...that people spring for the accessory Needle Kit from the Mfg.
Follow my "Tab Tensioned Screen painting" thread to see what results I got with a 1mm tip and Silver Fire. (1 mm Tip drags out the painting time intolerably but produces a ultra fine droplet mixture...1.5 mm would be the ideal compromise.)
Give use a overall impression on the performance of the RS-MM LL (sans the paint texture issue...) as I and others would value your observations.

Where do you suggest to buy the 1.5mm. I see that HD has it online for about $25 plus shipping. Is that about the best one can do on the needle? Also can you recommend a respirator for spraying?

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post #32 of 36 Old 10-05-2012, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Chezteladog View Post

Where do you suggest to buy the 1.5mm. I see that HD has it online for about $25 plus shipping. Is that about the best one can do on the needle? Also can you recommend a respirator for spraying?

I want to sleep !

Yes...that is a very good price, about $10.00 less than the Mfg sells it wholesale ! Post the Link for all...PLEASE! On here and my dedicated thread.

Always use a Dual Cartridge Respirator Mask. HD sells 'em... a 3M job (Gray) for $19.95. There's a "Cadillac unit for $29.95 as well.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #33 of 36 Old 10-06-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I want to sleep !
Yes...that is a very good price, about $10.00 less than the Mfg sells it wholesale ! Post the Link for all...PLEASE! On here and my dedicated thread.
Always use a Dual Cartridge Respirator Mask. HD sells 'em... a 3M job (Gray) for $19.95. There's a "Cadillac unit for $29.95 as well.

You can get the kit for $24.97 plus tax and shipping. If you buy $45 worth of stuff you get free shipping. If you use f a t w a l l e t . c o m you can get 3% cashback from HD as well.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=203391447&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=203391447&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D24X-_-203391447#.UHBcFq6mUQk

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post #34 of 36 Old 10-06-2012, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

If you want to consider a solution, get a 1.5 mm Needle as I'm certain the bigger 2.0 version is the root cause of your issue. It's of little comfort to you now, but from now on I'm going to suggest that while the Graco can be had for so low...that people spring for the accessory Needle Kit from the Mfg.

Bummer. But isn't the stock needle what everyone else here has been using to great result?
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Give use a overall impression on the performance of the RS-MM LL (sans the paint texture issue...) as I and others would value your observations.

I was going to give it a couple weeks to cure first to be fair.
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post #35 of 36 Old 10-07-2012, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Bummer. But isn't the stock needle what everyone else here has been using to great result?

Yep. But just like the original Wagner Control Spray, which also came with a 1.5 mm Needle, produced a finer mist (...and somewhat less need for the extra speed Dusting involved...) the use of a smaller Needle in a Graco also helps avoid the development of excessively thick coats, which can lead to texture-related issues such as Orange Peel and / or Runs.

These "Paint application" issues are things that can be corrected, things that have no bearing on the validity of the paint application's performance if elliminated. As such, it must be left up to the DIY'er to decide if they want to take advantage of them. Over the last several years of using / recommending the Electric HVLPs (Wagner CS - Double Duty - CS-Plus / Max) when the smaller Needles were dropped by Wagner in favor of the 2.0'mm to allow for heavier bodied paints (Latex) to be used, that is when you have seen an emphasis placed on "Dusting" take more and more prominence. I personally have at least 3 older 1.5 mm Wagner Front End Spray Kits that I've used with the separate Turbine / Hose units....to excellent effoct BTW...but since no one else new to the scene can do so, I've opted to cease using them in my own efforts since 99% of what I do I want to be reflected in the actual advice I give other aspiring DIY'ers.

Hence the need to focus on the "Duster" technique. But it doesn't take much "User Error" to have even a Duster Coat get too much paint up onto the surface when these Guns can output so much paint, especially when the paint is thinned to allow for a maximum Vertical Spray pattern.

The Graco's introduction to the Scene simply helped bring down the price of using the "Spray Technique" down even further, but it did not offer any solution to having a 2 mm Tip. Now...at least until the sub-$40.00 Gracos' are all gone, the availability of 1.5 mm & 1 mm Needle Kits from Erlux (Parent Mfg of the Graco) takes us back to being able to assure the DIY'er of a almost Glass-Smooth Flat finish. Especially if one continues to utilize the Duster Technique, albeit at a slightly reduced speed (...but maintaining the same distance...)

With Practice & Patience, the spray performance of either a Wagner or Graco using 2mm Tips can be held up as being quite acceptable. But as previously stated, if the smaller Needles are available, and the combined price of a Graco and a Needle Kit can stay at-below $60.00 or so, then the extra confidence that is enabled when offering up such a paint application method is well worth the additional expense...and the slight risk of losing the interest of really tight-budgeted DIY'ers who can accept $35.00 extra expense, but whom might waffle at $60.00
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I was going to give it a couple weeks to cure first to be fair.

Well that's mighty fair indeed, however as you can see in my recently offered shots on the 106" Tab Tensioned Screen Thread" show, taking shots just 2-4 days afterward doesn't weigh too heavily against observing what is....and what is not possible.

Paint-induced texture is another thing altogether. Usually, if such is going to be reduced via drying, that happens between coats because Drying is hastened using Heat / or Fan aided clean forced air assist. Such methods help shrink bumps due to the contraction of the paint. Without such "hastened drying" the "Bumps have time to get "set" and only sanding and a thin re-coating will get rid of such texture. The one good thing about waiting 2 weeks or so? The paint will sand down easier and more evenly than will semi - soft uncured paint.

I'm sure you can make some very appropriate and fair determinations that take into account texture not related to the actual paint but die to application. Some cannot...but you seem to be a more analytical and unbiased sort than others. I / we all appreciate that sort of open mindedness, especially when you have to deal with any "end-user" related issues.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #36 of 36 Old 10-07-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so it's a given that my texture problems are the result of too much paint -- as indicated by the resulting texture, the excessive drying times of about an hour per coat, and possibly by the fact that I used 8+oz per coat -- a problem that can be alleviated by using a smaller needle. But since so many others have gotten great results with the stock needle, presumably we can pin my failing on something other than strictly the needle. What all are the factors that would cause too much paint to be laid down?

  • Moving too slowly. I don't think this was the case; if anything I feel like I moved too quickly across the screen.
  • Not enough water? This also doesn't seem to be the case if I'm understanding correctly; it poured easily through the nylon strainer and very quickly through the viscosity cup.
  • Too close to the screen? I don't think this was it either; if anything I feel like I may have been too far. The spray pattern was quite tall.

Which seems the most likely culprit? I think I still don't quite understand the effects of too much versus too little water in the mix. I think it's possible I used too much overlap as well. I'll also try using the paint volume knob and adjust it lower; think that will help?

Okay, first impressions of the screen: I don't consider the supposed hotspotting or limited viewing angle of the paint to be issues, at all. Neither are even vaguely noticeable during any actual viewing by me or anyone else who has seen the screen. When I (and probably others) hear "viewing angle" talk, I am imagining what I see when I look at an LCD off-angle, or a DLP rear-projection television. This is not even close to being in that ballpark. When I put up an image and walk to the side I simply don't notice any dropoff; that's about all there is to it. I have not yet taken off-axis photos; I don't doubt they will show that, objectively, there IS significant brightness dropoff, but it simply isn't an actual viewing concern in this case as far as I'm concerned.

Same goes for hotspotting. First of all, I guess I am not in much of a position to comment on it given my projector's obvious uniformity issues (making a "hotspot" apparent even on unpainted BOC). Secondly, again, I just don't see it in any actual video watching. Any given frame of a video is going to have so many textures, colors, light/dark values, that trying to tell that one area is unintentionally lighter than another is going to be exceedingly difficult even in a still frame. Given motion; changing lighting; constantly changing camera shots; and the fact that you will actually be paying attention to the action, characters, etc; and then given the fact that we are watching on screens large enough that we probably (in my case certainly) cannot take in the whole frame simultaneously -- noticing "hotspotting" that is anything short of the effect of a flashlight being shown on the screen is simply not going to happen IMO. So while the hotspotting of this mix could be quite noticeable in a flat, solid test pattern; or, with more effort, in a still frame of actual video content: I just don't see it affecting my viewing experience in the slightest.

Beyond that, my first impression is that it is brighter than my BOC, but with correspondingly lighter blacks. No earth-shaking revelation there I guess! From a quick comparison of the few test photos I've done of the RS-MM-LL with the UPW, it actually looks very similar. I will post the comparison pics in a couple days when I've had time to take more. I'm also going to pick up another yard or so of BOC to compare it directly rather than just through photos. I have a 2' x 3' panel that I'm going to paint Cream&Sugar Ultra as well; that should have been done already, but like an idiot, when I mixed and sprayed the paint, I had somehow gotten it into my head that the tubes of Liquitex were 8oz instead of 4oz, so there is half as much of the Silver as there should have been -- so it's not actually C&S.

Ambient performance: Unfortunately I didn't take ambient shots of the BOC and UPW to compare. Partly because it's not a concern for me but mostly because I just forgot. My impression is that it's not far off from the others; in other words, stuff like sports and talk shows and sitcoms are entirely watchable with a reading lamp on or the overhead light in the space adjoining this on, but I would never consider watching a movie or anything with lots of darks in it with lights on.
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