Painting Onto A 106" Tab Tensioned Screen with Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 84 Old 10-31-2012, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Thanks MM, your info is very useful

Sometimes I manage to be useful. tongue.gif

BTW, most do not realize that a Short Throw PJ needs such lumen output to compensate for the degree of light lost as the image passes through the dual Concave / Convex lenses required to create such a wide dispersion of an image projected from so close, and still avoid the distortion around the edges that would otherwise result.

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post #62 of 84 Old 11-01-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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OK....for now, this post will be the last that shows Screen shots showing the performance potential of a re-surfaced Retractable Screen

Mostly, I have chosen examples that show how well Black levels are enhanced...and/or maintained at reasonable levels under ADVERSE lighting conditions.

This first collage shows scenes that incorporate both very light and dark elements, and ambient light primarily coming fom the Window's edges as well as reflections from the left side of the Dormer and the Hardwood Flooring. ( late AM *11:00* with indirect Sun )

a6shotcollage.jpg


Next up are two collages that show pretty much the most intense amount of ambient light ( direct Sunlight behind Screen ) that is experienced.

apandorianpic.jpg


AFloorinfluence.jpg

The collage directly above is intended to show how adversely a reflective floor / carpet can be. In particular, note the washout along the bottom of the screen, with the areas affected being directly above the bright reflective patterns the Sunlight casts on the polished wood flooring. Wlie not making excuses, such situations are extreme and not to be considered workable for almost any screen application. Yet the results shown are pretty livable with, and if a Throw was placed along the baseboard....? No issues at all. cool.gif

The next collage of shots are intended to show the conditions my erstwhile Peers at the same Show opted to (ie; ...had to...) exhibit their Screens / PJ in.

First up...at top right a 120" diagonal Stewart ST130 set a full 6' back into a recessed hole, hit with a SIMS2 Crystal PJ, and at top left a 92" DaLite w/Panny ae7000u in a totally darkened room (3D was showing) where only light coming from the door (when allowed open) was present.

afinalshotgroup.jpg

The bottom shots in the same grouping....on the left, an example of the lighting present in my room 95% of the time. No problems with people tripping over themselves or others. biggrin.gif On the left...another shot of the room under full lighting that shows the decidedly "Non-Dedicated" nature of the room.

Next.....a shot that sums up the wonder and approval of almost every Show goer. I gotta tell ya all sumpthin'.....the "Disappearing Screen" act is hugely popular with all types of people....and especially Wives who to that point had / would never consider a Big Screen in a Family Room, but upon seeing a Window be covered, yet be reclaimable upon demand, would say, "Honey, now that's something I could live with!" But even more so, the number of common, everyday individuals who could innately grasp that they were seeing "The Big Picture" in a non-"Tomb-like" environment, and make comment about such...loudly, made my time spent quite gratifying.

alookofwonderment-revealed-.jpg

Lastly.....a final shot of the crowd...with a very absorbed show goer. The one downside to showing CGI Movies? Hearing the wails of the children when the parents say "Get up now....we have to go."

acrowdshot.jpg

Thanks go out to everyone who followed this Thread. I hope this has gone a ways toward showing / proving that Retractable Screens are indeed worthy of a DIY'ers attention, and they can be made to be over-achievers with a little effort and forward thinking.

Soon to come....135" 2.39:1 SF v2.5 4.0 mated with a Panny 8000 (...or Epson 6020)

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post #63 of 84 Old 11-01-2012, 12:18 PM
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MississippiMan, this has been a very motivating thread and an inspiration towards my soon to be finished retractable screen. Thanks for sharing all your tips and tricks and lending a helping hand.

I will be following your progress in the new thread and keep my fingers crossed for an even more detailed strategy regarding masking and setup before painting. (This noob needs all the help he can get smile.gif )
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post #64 of 84 Old 11-04-2012, 04:55 PM
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Soon to come....135" 2.39:1 SF v2.5 4.0 mated with a Panny 8000 (...or Epson 6020)
Extremely looking forward to it
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post #65 of 84 Old 11-18-2012, 01:31 PM
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MM, any estimate regarding start of your next project?
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post #66 of 84 Old 11-20-2012, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rengep View Post

MM, any estimate regarding start of your next project?

Framing is complete, A/V wiring and Transducer installation today, Sheet rocking on Friday, Screen painting next Tuesday.

Fast tracking everything about this so as to be finished by a week from this Friday. Ambitious? Yes. Impossible? Some would say so.

The pressures on, brook no mistake.cool.gif

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post #67 of 84 Old 07-24-2014, 08:52 PM
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Wow! I have been following these threads for a few weeks now and love them.

I am from the UK and bought (to the Mrs disgust at first) a Acer H6510bd for the World Cup. Since it's finished I have mounted the projector on the ceiling and get around a 120" image onto a matt blue/grey wall.
I get some ambient light if I don't use the pull down blind and even then it lets some light in during the day.
I see the threads are dated 2012 and am hoping the paints have come a little further in performance?
Can you please recommend my best option for creating a screen? I am pretty handy with tools so a screen stretched over a custom frame and then painted is fine and so is painting directly into another surface.
Thanks again and look forward to hearing from you.
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post #68 of 84 Old 07-24-2014, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Mr Brooker,

The latest updated mix is here: The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread.

Performance is essentially the same, as the basic updates shown were going into effect at the time of the posted effort here.
..........with the exception of the Rustoleum Sterling Silver

One late breaking bit of news....the latest version of the Reflective mix is itself a great stand-alone mix with excellent ambient light performance and exceptional gain characteristics.

The addition of the SF Colorant is suggested when truly difficult to deal with ambient light situations exist, and adequate lumen output is available to offset the darker elements of the SF coating.
Your PJ certainly has the "lumen oomph"...but lacks serious contrast and black levels. SF will greatly improve on those failings. I suggest SF v2.5 3.0

Stretching a very smooth Matte White screen fabric across a Fame and the coating it with SF is a well proven method. We / I can help you scource some good material for an inexpensive price.

Where in the UK do you live?
How big a screen do you envision having?

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post #69 of 84 Old 07-25-2014, 11:31 AM
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Thanks for the speedy reply.
The screen will be 52"x92" so hopefully I'm right and it's a 106" screen?
I live in London (Richmond to be exact).
I would prefer the 'making a frame' route as a very dim led backlight would be nice.
Thanks again
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post #70 of 84 Old 07-28-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Mr Brooker,

The latest updated mix is here: The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread.

Performance is essentially the same, as the basic updates shown were going into effect at the time of the posted effort here.
..........with the exception of the Rustoleum Sterling Silver

One late breaking bit of news....the latest version of the Reflective mix is itself a great stand-alone mix with excellent ambient light performance and exceptional gain characteristics.

The addition of the SF Colorant is suggested when truly difficult to deal with ambient light situations exist, and adequate lumen output is available to offset the darker elements of the SF coating.
Your PJ certainly has the "lumen oomph"...but lacks serious contrast and black levels. SF will greatly improve on those failings. I suggest SF v2.5 3.0

Stretching a very smooth Matte White screen fabric across a Fame and the coating it with SF is a well proven method. We / I can help you scource some good material for an inexpensive price.

Where in the UK do you live?
How big a screen do you envision having?
Hi MM. I've been reading through the SF threads with great interest. I'm in the London UK area too and am currently considering making a SF screen. Trouble is, some of the components seem to be hard - if not impossible - to source over here.

Anyway, I wonder if you could suggest the best solution for me? My projector is an LG PF80G, full LED and advertised at 1000 lumen. I have it on 'eco' mode to greatly reduce the fan noise and I guess it reduces brightness by around 10 - 15%. In a dark room, I'm very pleased with this bright picture... but I want a screen to use in ambient light.

The projected image struggles a little at the bottom end (even in total a dark room) with solid blacks projecting at around 90%. I'd like a grey screen to compensate for this and still do justice to the whites and colours in ambient light. I was thinking of a SF v2.5 3.0 - but maybe this would be too dark a grey for my LG PF80G to cope with? I would consider reducing the overall screen size (ie moving the projector closer) to get a decent picture.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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post #71 of 84 Old 08-03-2014, 02:32 PM
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Maybe I'll go slightly smaller as I just bought the 3D glasses and get lots of crossover on the huge screen.
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post #72 of 84 Old 08-04-2014, 07:17 AM
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Sort of double posting as I mentioned this in the SF 2 thread (along with other questions)...

MM, if you were to enlarge the black border around that screen, what paint would you use? I have a non-tensioned 120" Favi electric screen and I want to increase the black border a few inches before I paint it with SF. Of course the most important quality is to give me a nice, non-reflective black that sets off the projected image properly, but I also worry about how it handles retracting up into the housing and deploying back down repeatedly.
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post #73 of 84 Old 08-04-2014, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Sort of double posting as I mentioned this in the SF 2 thread (along with other questions)...

MM, if you were to enlarge the black border around that screen, what paint would you use? I have a non-tensioned 120" Favi electric screen and I want to increase the black border a few inches before I paint it with SF. Of course the most important quality is to give me a nice, non-reflective black that sets off the projected image properly, but I also worry about how it handles retracting up into the housing and deploying back down repeatedly.
Well.........if one is determined to do such, then the procedure would entail taping off and masking the desired area "within" the screen surface first and painting the Black border. I would use a deep black such a Disney's Mouse Ears (Disney Color)

And it would absolutely have to be spray applied. And done using the same duster method the screen coating would / will receive so that you can judge exactly how much you need to effect overage....but no more than the minimum required.

Then that border will have to be left alone until it's bone dry. After that, you will have to apply the Frog Tape precisely onto the leading edge, and afterward, when removing, do any touch up needed by hand.....carefully.

You might lift up some Black paint....or you might still have a wee bit of bleed onto the Black paint, but both will require a hand repair.

BTW, don't wait too long after the last coat on the screen to remove the Tape off the Border area. But do wait until the Black paint is dry to the touch before you remove the tape off the screen. It's easy to correct a boo boo on of Screen paint on top the Black border.....no so much to do so with black paint on the screen.

I have some ProtoStar Telescope Flocking Tape somewhere close at hand and I will go examine it to see if after installation it presents a thin enough "lay" to be used as a border for a Retractable screen. Give me 24 hours before you jump on any Painted border solution. I might even have answer for you before too long in fact.

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post #74 of 84 Old 08-04-2014, 04:12 PM
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Hi MM.
Any luck in finding the paints i'll need to order from this side in the UK?
Thanks
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post #75 of 84 Old 08-04-2014, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi MM.
Any luck in finding the paints i'll need to order from this side in the UK?
Thanks

PM sent

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post #76 of 84 Old 08-09-2014, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Bumping this to the top because I have had xeveral requests about painting Electric Retractable Screens.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #77 of 84 Old 08-10-2014, 04:21 AM
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PM sent
Amazing work MM! I'm floored by the amount of work and knowledge you guys offer on here for free.

Could I bother you to send the above msg to me as well? I'm stuck in Denmark, so most materials are impossible to get, but shipping and tax from the UK are negligible compared to the US

Thanks!
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post #78 of 84 Old 08-10-2014, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Amazing work MM! I'm floored by the amount of work and knowledge you guys offer on here for free.

Could I bother you to send the above msg to me as well? I'm stuck in Denmark, so most materials are impossible to get, but shipping and tax from the UK are negligible compared to the US

Thanks!
Yes...I know. Denmark has one of the most draconian and aggressive Customs anywhere. Very protectionist and VAT oriented.

But there are ways to get around such........Muwahahahah !

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post #79 of 84 Old 08-18-2014, 08:54 AM
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Murphy's Law?

Well, I ended up painting my electric projection screen with Silver Fire. It looked very good...I'd say twice as good during the day and 50% better at night. I went with darkness 4.0 (approx.).

The problem was with the poor construction of my screen (Favi 120"). I was in my studio working on something and I heard a "swish" noise. I looked and the screen had actually come unglued from the cylinder in the housing and was now on the floor. I was pretty upset that I had done all of this work and now I had a (probably) damaged screen which would be a major undertaking to reattach to the roller in the housing.

I had adjusted the screen to lower as far as it would go to paint it, and I guess it was designed poorly so when unrolled that far the glue would not hold it any longer. I don't believe I put any undo stress on the screen in the painting process, I just think it was poorly constructed and easily fell apart.

So, to sum up...Silver Fire 2.5 (4.0 darkness) worked well, especially during the day with lots of ambient light. Favi screens, however, may not be up to the challenge of being down all the way for painting.

I did take a couple of pics while it was still up...just cell phone pics so not great quality.

I have already purchased another inexpensive screen, this time already gray. If I am happy enough with it I'll use it as is. If not, I still have some Silver Fire left to maybe try again.
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post #80 of 84 Old 08-18-2014, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Awwww sheesh.

And you don't think you could have reattached the screen to the Cylinder?

If the surface damaged? That SF screen might find good service with another member as a Fixed Screen. In the least, please keep in in good shape and make a direct comparison with the upcoming Matte Gray. That really hasn't happened anywhere with an unbiased approach, and the "reveal" would be welcomed by many.....if not lamented by a very few.

PS....your "50% better in the dark" statement / evaluation really flies in the face of some remarks made by a few who state that no Ambient Light "Gray" Screen can...or would outperform a Matte White surface in true controlled lighting.

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post #81 of 84 Old 08-18-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
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Awwww sheesh.

...your "50% better in the dark" statement / evaluation really flies in the face of some remarks made by a few who state that no Ambient Light "Gray" Screen can...or would outperform a Matte White surface in true controlled lighting.
My room is not perfectly light controlled, so even at night I have light issues...primarily due to projector light bouncing off the screen onto light colored walls and back onto the screen to wash out the blacks. I can't comment on other white screens but mine was easily washed out from reflected light. The 4.0 (approx.) dark SF looked way better than the matte white screen during the day and just got better as the evening set in. Also, I only had the screen up for 24 hrs. before it came unglued so any improvement from "curing" was yet to happen. I watched the Bills/Steelers game 2 hours after I finished painting it. After the game I played a number of my films that I consider eye candy and was impressed.

P.S. Mississippi Man, there is one film you probably have never heard of that is a challenging test for any home theater set up. It is called Appleseed Alpha. The opening scene takes place in a subway and is very dimly lit...a very low contrast I played this on my "new screen" and while not perfect it was substantially better than my white screen. If you ever want to truly test SF, try that opening scene. As the subway train comes toward the viewer there is a door on the left. Check to see how many details you can make out of that door. On my white screen, no matter how much I adjusted my projector (Panasonic AX200U) that door was just a gray blob. On the SF screen I could actually make out some details.

To me, the test of a great screen/projector is not how it works with highly saturated or bright films like Finding Nemo or The Incredibles, it is how it handles shadow details such as the one I mention.
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post #82 of 84 Old 08-18-2014, 08:58 PM
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Thinking about trying my hand at a few SF tests here in the next week or so. Just need to track down one more unicorns horn for extra gain and I should just about have everything on the list (jk). Not too thrilled with the idea of buying another paint gun since I already have 2 pneumatic HVLP guns for car painting as well as an air brush. Could any of these be used for SF? Or should I just try it out and see how it goes, does anyone have any experience (good or bad) painting SF with pneumatic guns?
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post #83 of 84 Old 08-19-2014, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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If you have a complete HVLP Rig for Painting cars, including a Water/Rust Filter - Dryer - and lots of constant air pressure (...and a maximum size of 1.5 mm needle 1.0 preferred ) then your all set. I have such a Rig myself. It has sat unused for over 7 years now...except the 35 Gallon 5.5 HP compressor, which I use for Impact Wrenches and pumping up Tires.

I have two great Ingersol Rand HVLP Guns sitting around collecting dust. (hint)

I painted with Air powered HVLP for almost 2 years before discovering the Wagner. I used undiluted paint then that required a 2.2 mm Needle, and it took a full 3.5 - 4 min to spray a 120" screen, so I often had issues with a drop off in air pressure....and my finishes has a distinctly "dusty/sand-papery feel. (...and the occasional Rust Flake or Fish Eye spot always sent me stompin' around... ) Also, thicker coats took an insufferably long time to dry, and stayed wet enough for so long I dared not risk using a Fan and splatter dust and hair up onto the screen. Instead I would raise room Temps to 85 or so to hasten drying. A real PITA.

Then a veritable Angel of a Car Painter suggested I thin the Latex Paint with water and drop down to a 1.5 mm tip. That seemed counter productive to me but I gave it a go and ........love was in the air. (...and less paint too...) My finishes were ultra smooth and my flow rate increased by 2x. Also, by employing the rapid Duster Coat method, the spray-on coating times dropped to 1 minute or less, and drying times were reduced by 1/2 or less. Often under 25 minutes....and I could use a fan almost immediately to help it dry quicker.

But once I could ditch that 100 lb Compressor, all the Hoses and accessories, and just waltz in a place with my trusty Electric HVLP and a Can of paint, I never looked back at that Big 'ol HVLP Rig again.

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post #84 of 84 Old 08-20-2014, 08:09 AM
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Awesome thank you! Glad to hear its not a complete No No.
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