My first attempt at painting a screen(pics included) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 10-18-2012, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the projector central painted screen solution. Can anyone explain the spots? They are not visible when viewing from straight on, unless the image is really white. However, when angled it is really bad. Please Help. Photos are taken with and without flash, trying to show exactly what i am talking about. 101_0453.JPG 4013k .JPG file 101_0456.JPG 4064k .JPG file 101_0457.JPG 3808k .JPG file 101_0458.JPG 4163k .JPG file
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post #2 of 29 Old 10-19-2012, 05:45 AM
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Those are texture issues. They look to be left over from the original paint's undercoating of Primer not being thick enough to cover the drywall compound.

Did you do any surface repair on the beige wall before painting with the SW?
Did you prime the surface yourself?
Did you sand the existing surface?
Was that paint rolled on and if so how many coats?
Same "coating" question if sprayed?

One does not usually see such large blemished areas unless insufficient amounts of Primer / Paint are applied. Primer is the primary ingredient to "Cover" such things and even out the surface, as well as seal a surface so paint does not absorb at different rates into primed / non-primed surfaces. That flat beige paint probably hid the nasty...but over coating the SW...which has a gain higher than 1.0... brought the underlying defects up to the surface. The same thing would be true if any repair was made but sufficient primer not re-applied.

No question....your in for a re-do. You could try more coats of SW....but if that did not work you'd have wasted some fairly expensive paint.

We last heard from you on 8-31-12. This time, keep us in the loop as to your progress, and ask questions if your at all uncertain about anything. Even rolling demands specific guidelines when getting a 99.9999999% perfect surface is what is really sought after.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #3 of 29 Old 10-19-2012, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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The answer to all questions is no. I listened to the guy at the paint store who said I could roll it straight on. There are 4 coats there of paint. The spots were not going away with additional coats. How should I repair?
Any other suggestions other than the sw?
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post #4 of 29 Old 10-20-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla33 View Post

The answer to all questions is no. I listened to the guy at the paint store who said I could roll it straight on. There are 4 coats there of paint. The spots were not going away with additional coats. How should I repair?
Any other suggestions other than the sw?

Well from your answer, I assume that the issue lies with the higher gain of the SW serving to highlight the extremely small differences in height caused by both a less than effective original "mud coat" sanding job as well as a too quickly done priming (...if primed at all...)

Coverage using a good primer (Kilz-2 latex), rolled carefully on using 3/16" nap Rollers is a starting point. Apply two coats, letting the first coat dry several hours before applying the 2nd. let the 2nd coat dry overnight. Then using a Large, medium Grit Sanding sponge * 3" x 8" x 1" * (HD paint Dept ) sand the surface using light, sweeping strokes that cover as much area as possible top to bottom, and as you move across the area, overlap the preceding sanded row by 50%. Each vertical row should receive approx. 4 strikes before moving on....so do not over do it.

After you have sanded the surface, wipe it clean with a soft cloth, getting all the sanded primer dust off. Then apply one more even coat of primer.

That should get you ready to rock.....and roll.

As for choosing anything else to paint with, if you went with the SW because you felt all you needed was a bright white screen....you cannot do much better without going deeper into the more advanced DIY solutions, be they White or Gray.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #5 of 29 Old 10-20-2012, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Do I need to use a new roller for each coat of primer? How about each coat of paint?

So i just go over what is already there with 2 coats of primer, sand, then another coat. At that point i am ready to reapply the SW. Is this all correct?

I will keep you updated. I am currently on a crazy work schedule, so it may be a week or two before i get much done. Thanks
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post #6 of 29 Old 10-20-2012, 07:25 PM
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Read my directions again...and again.

Additional clarification as to WTH your trying to do:

The first two Primer coats (...use same Roller, bagged to keep moist...) act as a "Soft, sand-able Filler". When Sanding that 2nd Coat (after it is completely dry ) your sanding-s objective is "smoothing" the surface...not trying to "Remove" material. Primer will sand well...and evenly under light pressure if it is dry. The longer you give the second coat to dry...the better the sanding results will be.

After sanding, and the application of another coat of Primer (...use new Roller for this coat...) if close inspection from every angle does not reveal shadows or rises, your going to be far better off than before.

Seeing as you have a Optoma HD20, there is no questioning that you want to be using a Paint Mix that will provide some boosting of contrast. But exactly will be best for you must be determined by how well your wall is prepped. Just as the SW's gain helps reveal the difference between high/low spots and Texture differences, High Contrast / High Gain surfaces will also reveal the same things....along with smaller defects like Pin Holes, uneven Sanding, and minute but gross texture differences..

Personally I think there are much better solutions than the PC - SW application, solutions that can serve many more aspects of varied viewing conditions and PJ variables. Some are quite simple....but the best all require spraying. And be advised that the results you would get with the SW would be measurably better....by a large measure....than any rolled effort.


But let's get your "Base" squared away first. After the 3rd Priming coat is dry, project a Blue Start-up screen onto the surface. Now examine the screen area from every angle you can. If it appears uniform and even.....get crackin'

If not....note the remaining areas and determine if they are / it is a High or Low spot. (...there should be no Texture issues by now...) High spots are easy......judicious light "spot" sanding is all that is needed until leveled, then a complete ultra light sweep-sanding of the entire screen.

Come a point where you have to accept the final result...or move into an alternative like a Mfg Substrate. Myself....I've never seen the wall I could not tame. Just walls I'd rather not bother trying to. biggrin.gif

Sintra....Acrylic Mirrors....Polycarbonate Plastic......even just overlaid Drywall....all can offer a solution to a bad situation.

As to if you will head down that rocky road....that remains to be seen. We are watching. cool.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #7 of 29 Old 10-20-2012, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I look foward to getting this corrected. Will keep you updated.
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post #8 of 29 Old 10-20-2012, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I notice that HD has 2 different Kilz 2 latex primers. One says Primer/Sealer, Stainblocker. The other just says Primer/Sealer, does it matter?
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post #9 of 29 Old 10-20-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla33 View Post

I notice that HD has 2 different Kilz 2 latex primers. One says Primer/Sealer, Stainblocker. The other just says Primer/Sealer, does it matter?

Get the Primer / Sealer.

Ya know....I changed my mind. Use a 1/4" Nap Roller (Non-Shedding Good Quality) for those first 2 coats of primer. Let's apply the Primer marginally thicker by letting the slightly heavier 1/4 Nap lay down just a bit more paint.

Then after it's dry enough it no longer feels "cool" (24 hours) do the required sanding...clean, then use the 3/16" roller for the last coat.

All your "Finish Coats" are done with 3/16"ers...and it is strongly advised that you use a Fresh Roller ....properly loaded...for each Finish Coat.

BTW, as you build up coats, you build up a tendency for the previous coats to absorb and retain moisture longer, resulting in a dryer surface and wetter underlying areas. That is a sure recipe for Orange Peal, or worse...sagging. Once again, patience is a virtue that comes with a reward....let the coats each dry for "hours" and your assured of not having many common issues crop up.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #10 of 29 Old 10-20-2012, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks for all of the help. Should have done this the first time.
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post #11 of 29 Old 10-21-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla33 View Post

Wow, thanks for all of the help. Should have done this the first time.

Now you have a second chance, one that holds much promise for you to achieve your original goal....and almost assuredly surpass it.

Get'ter Dun!

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #12 of 29 Old 10-21-2012, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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MM, i know you are a big fan of spraying. If I go that route, when do I switch to spraying? I am guessing the 3rd coat of primer and all "Finish Coats". Is there really a PQ difference? Does it even matter when using the SW?

Thanks in advance.
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post #13 of 29 Old 10-21-2012, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla33 View Post

MM, i know you are a big fan of spraying. If I go that route, when do I switch to spraying? I am guessing the 3rd coat of primer and all "Finish Coats". Is there really a PQ difference? Does it even matter when using the SW?
Thanks in advance.


Because of your current issues, Rollin on the Primer will effect far more "coverage" than spraying. After that 3rd Primer coat....you should have a pretty smooth surface free of defects.

ANY screen that receives a painted coating benefits "GREATLY"from it being sprayed (correctly)

Sheesh.....you don't think I'd be fixated on HVLP if a simple rollin' job could get'ter dun,do ya? I'm damn good at rolling....better than most I feel as far as screen painting, but even so I risk far more "less than perfect" end results by using a Roller....and I'm frettin' all the while I'm rollin', just waiting for the axe to fall.

Sprayin'? It's like nuthin' at all....but the end results are like nuthin' else.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #14 of 29 Old 10-21-2012, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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So, as i have never used a sprayer before, should I spray? How hard is it? Also, how big of a mess is it? I mean lets be a honest, its not like i have a 5000 dollar set up. Although i do want to get the most out of what i have.
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post #15 of 29 Old 10-22-2012, 10:19 AM
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Bub, I'm being as honest as I can!

I advocate spraying because it's the most easiest and dependable route to take to get the best possible results. I'd say 99% of the DIY'ers on here who have sprayed their screens had never sprayed anything using a HVLP rig before either, let alone a Projection Screen, yet you don't see any despairing Threads full of recriminating posts about how much of a mistake it was for them to try.

Few do have $5K+ set-ups. But everyone I've helped on both ends of the scale have always seen and appreciated the difference. What I can't go on doing is repeatedly trying to convince you of the obvious. Look around...read the threads...how many do you see that involve rolling?.
It's not just a squirt and watch proposition. Is it messy? Might be if you don't follow directions, as there are certain precautions and preparations to make / do that mitigate the chances of creating a mess (...please read my threads...) . Otherwise, no.
Am I willing and able to help you when I can / all I can? I think you already know that answer.
Do you have to make at least a bit of an effort to read / learn / know what to do? Absolutely.
Will it be worth the effort? Also...absolutely.

This time around you have the support of people who "KNOW" what you should do and "HOW" you should do it. There is no "Maybe" or "What if" in the equation except what you yourself might introduce.

So make a decision. The correction I gave you will put you in good stead to do either....roll or spray. So.....Get'ter Dun.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #16 of 29 Old 10-25-2012, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm starting the repair job in the morning. Have already purchased those supplies and excited to get at it. I will have this thread open on the computer right next to me. I have not purchased new SW yet. I have been doing some research in my leisure time here at work and it appears that some of the MaxxMudd applications can be rolled. I have decided to roll, mostly due to my wife not wanting to me to spray in what is her office and my sons play room. MM, do you have a suggestion for which version to use? Looking to make the colors pop a little more and to not be as washed out when a lamp or some ambient light is in the room.
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post #17 of 29 Old 10-26-2012, 04:08 AM
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RE-MaxxMudd LL

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #18 of 29 Old 10-27-2012, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Got two good coats of primer on the wall. Was delayed while watching my Vols lose yet another game, then had to come to work. I can already tell that the bad "spots" are gone. This is going to be some much better. I actually watched the game on the primed screen and it really wasnt bad. Now just gotta figure out which paint i want to use for the finish coats.
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post #19 of 29 Old 10-29-2012, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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MM,

I have done everything including two finish coats. I ended up going with the SW. Guess i'm a chicken at trying something new. The spots are completely gone. Your plan worked fantastic. My picture also seems to have more pop now. I'm guessing this is because the SW is now on top of a white primer vs soaking into the beige paint. It almost has a glisten/sparkle. Is this good? It has been 12 hours since the last coat was applied. I had 10 hours between the 2 finish coats. Would you recommend a third coat? It seems like that is standard protocol. I also tried to spot sand a tiny spot where a blob of paint was. Now i have a spot about the size of a penny that is a hair dull. Should I sand the entire screen and then do a third coat? Sand the entire screen and no more paint? or just paint the entire screen 1 more time? Thanks
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post #20 of 29 Old 10-29-2012, 08:35 PM
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Lightly Sand....repaint....BE CAREFUL !!!!!!!!

smile.gif

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post #21 of 29 Old 10-29-2012, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Just one coat?
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post #22 of 29 Old 10-29-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla33 View Post

Just one coat?

That should be all you need. Unless your sanding job creates more issues, it sounds like you have a sufficiently smooth base going for you. Sanding is required to assure that the rest of the surface will accept the paint in the same manner as the "spot sanded" area.

Learn from the past. Anything irregular almost always shows through.

And be advised...a "too thick" coating can absorb light as well, and result in a fuzzier image, so you only want to put up what paint is necessary to "cover".

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post #23 of 29 Old 10-29-2012, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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i think that is what is going on with what i called a sparkle. Fuzzy is another way to put it. I guess sanding, and a light coat should fix that.
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post #24 of 29 Old 10-29-2012, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla33 View Post

i think that is what is going on with what i called a sparkle. Fuzzy is another way to put it. I guess sanding, and a light coat should fix that.

Any "sparkle" is probably the result of the gain of the SW.

You might try sanding the entire surface very lightly with 330 grit Paper and then trying it out before applying any more paint. It might wind up being perfect.

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post #25 of 29 Old 10-29-2012, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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For what it is worth it is very evident on bright white scenes.
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post #26 of 29 Old 10-30-2012, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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repainted, fuzzy image is gone and all looks wonderful, except one roller path down the screen. Once the paint is completely dry would a gentle sanding with a 300 grit sponge over the entire screen take that away or would the screen need yet another layer of paint?
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post #27 of 29 Old 10-31-2012, 06:11 AM
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It might....if your sanding is done with consummate care and evenness. If not, you can always try another re-coating. However the paint your using, and the method of application (rolling) both conspire toward making a perfect surface at best problematical.

I've said it all before and it bears repeating.

(Disclaimer: Gorilla33...this rant is not specifically directed at you....just tossed out agian as the product of my own frustration at seeing a deserving DIY'er come up short.)

I spent almost two years advocating the Roller method over spraying....resisting the known value and results properly spraying a screen provides. My motive was less cost more than ease and dependable results. There were no inexpensive Electric HVLP Guns in 2003, and the cost of a capable Compressor Tank/Gun/Hose/Filter rig averaged $400-500. I felt (...rightly so...) that such an expense was out of hand in keeping with the DIY'ers mandate of keeping things ridiculously inexpensive.

Then I saw personally how over-achieving one of my paint apps (MMudd) could be if sprayed and the decision was a no-Brainer. Better to constrain my efforts toward convincing people of the worthiness of spending more for exceptional results than beating my Keyboard to pieces trying to instruct people on how to effective roll a perfectly smooth, blemish free surface. I mean really....I spent far more time telling people how to re-sand (...even "Wet Sand" ) and re-coat over crappy results than I ever did introducing people to the art of DIY screen making.

Does this sound familiar? rolleyes.gif

Resistance to my efforts was epic. Those who advocated using Flat paints insisted that rolling was all that was needed. And essentially they were right...if a simple Flat latex was used. But no Flat latex paint delivered "over the Top" results, and that pinnacle was where I insisted most DIY'ers deserved to be.

The came the Wagner Control Spray and all that changed. Affordable (almost silly so...) and easy spraying became a reality. And today with the Graco units, the cost is under $40.00 ! Yet still, some remain fixated on how much trouble it is to mask off an area with inexpensive plastic....or spending that $40.00 for the Gun in the first place.

Yet few can ever get away with spending any less if decent Rolling supplies are bought. And the cost of "Good Paint' only adds to the expense.

It would seem that the posted results by so many who have sprayed successfully at that price-point often has no bearing on the Noob's belief that rolling is easier (...it is NOT! ) and less expensive (...it seldom is...). Worse still, by the time such truths become evident, the DIY'er who has repeated issues rolling often has spent every bit as much or more on a "less than optimal effort" as the DIY'er who sprayed who nailed it the first time out.

Of course mistakes can be made using either method....and both methods can deliver great results. But the odds always favor Spraying as being the most dependable method.

Now then....... biggrin.gif

Gorilla33, your awfully close to where you wanna be. A Re-do might get you there. That choice is yours to make. I'm sure you know that I and everyone else only want your effort to garner you complete satisfaction. But this is about the end of the road as far as being able to offer you any useful assistance. I know you know I sincerely hope you can achieve the perfect surface you deserve.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #28 of 29 Old 11-01-2012, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Welp, i certainly understand where you are coming from. I have enough paint left for 1 more coat. I'll try to roll it on and be happy. Like you said, at some point you just gotta accept it. I've seen in some of your other post where you metion that with an image it really goes away, which is where i am at. I notice it on fast moving camera work. Like watching football on the green grass.
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post #29 of 29 Old 11-02-2012, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Put the additional coat on last night and could not be happier with the PQ, no marks visable, even in really bright scenes. Under severe ambient lighting there is 1 or 2 small areas where the screen is less than perfect, but I am very pleased. Will try to get some pics to show the difference. Thanks MM for all of your help. Next step is making my border, which I have been reading about and am very confident i can do adequately.
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