110" DIY Spandex AT Screen - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 12:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
design1stcode2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

My experience with moleskin was quite different. It's AT properties were the least of my concern. I actually took some measurements and was pleased with the results. The regimen was not as strict as what Tux is now doing and I only tested one layer stretched. That's why the dual layer issues did not come up.

But the image quality, despite all the assurances and glowing reviews, was disappointing to me. The picture was too dim and washed out. It was visibly inferior to a modest white non-AT screen it replaced. Now it maybe possible to dial it in terms of brightness and color accuracy but it is not a trivial matter. smorkaz had to spend considerable time calibrating his white-over-silver moleskin screen to get decent results and still ended up running his projector in "living room" mode.

All non-perforated AT screens being semi-translucent have a serious disadvantage compared to non-AT screens for getting good PQ. Again, this is not a spandex only thing, any woven AT cloth would be a compromise in this respect to one degree or another. They all have to deal with loss of gain due to light getting through and loss of contrast due to "cross-pixel light contamination". Now I personally find it acceptable because sound is important to me. But for non-AT application I would look for non-AT solution. And that's what I suggested to the poster who asked.

It maybe that milliskin is significantly better than moleskin and even better than BOC, but I will remain skeptical until I see measurements to support the claim.
One thing for sure, I will not make a mistake of overestimating the value of MM's advise any more.

A lot can depend on the projector used and the room design. For my painted wall screen and the spandex screen I currently use the Color 1 mode which puts out 550 lumens and my PJ is 13' from the screen give or take a few inches. I can bump it up to normal which is 950 lumens but I find that bit bright for my tastes. So for me, in my room the screen is more than bright enough and has substantially less texture than what I had before.

If you can list me a screen with all tools and supplies required costing less that $150 for 120" 2.35:1 that will outperform the one I have now I will gladly take a look at making it at some point. I'm always open to something better.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 (flood resilient build)
 

Play like a Raven

design1stcode2nd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

My experience with moleskin was quite different. It's AT properties were the least of my concern. I actually took some measurements and was pleased with the results. The regimen was not as strict as what Tux is now doing and I only tested one layer stretched. That's why the dual layer issues did not come up.

But the image quality, despite all the assurances and glowing reviews, was disappointing to me. The picture was too dim and washed out. It was visibly inferior to a modest white non-AT screen it replaced. Now it maybe possible to dial it in terms of brightness and color accuracy but it is not a trivial matter. smorkaz had to spend considerable time calibrating his white-over-silver moleskin screen to get decent results and still ended up running his projector in "living room" mode.

All non-perforated AT screens being semi-translucent have a serious disadvantage compared to non-AT screens for getting good PQ. Again, this is not a spandex only thing, any woven AT cloth would be a compromise in this respect to one degree or another. They all have to deal with loss of gain due to light getting through and loss of contrast due to "cross-pixel light contamination". Now I personally find it acceptable because sound is important to me. But for non-AT application I would look for non-AT solution. And that's what I suggested to the poster who asked.

It maybe that milliskin is significantly better than moleskin and even better than BOC, but I will remain skeptical until I see measurements to support the claim.
One thing for sure, I will not make a mistake of overestimating the value of MM's advise any more.


A few months back , if people have been here a while, noticed that MM was raving about this Moleskin Spandex stuff and claiming it would perform just as well if not better than the manufacture materials both visually and acoustically. He was reccomending the Moleskin all over the forums to new members like it was the hot product of the year. Well, I admit that I bought into the hype, and considering that it was pretty cheap I would give it a try. Well, my impressions of it was pretty well documented in this thread and recent testings both here and elsewhere confirm that both visually and acoustically, it is quite subpar.

However, I am SHOCKED to have just discovered that MM was reccomending this material and hyping it without ever SEEN IT (just look at this most recent posts above). He never saw the spandex, he never touched it, let alone build a screen out of it until just recently. And for a man that never provided a single data point on testings/measurements, always attempt to discredit others and quickly seek to dismissed their data. I am not quite sure what to make of it.
smokarz is online now  
post #273 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 02:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
BartMan01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnson1123 View Post

Ok let me calm this down a little.... lol


SO is this the screen tight system everyone are using?
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100065822&R=100065822#.UTD6nzCfg-c

If so "DANG" they do not sell it here in TX, so i guess i have to order it.

I found it at Lowe's in Texas, but no HD.
BartMan01 is offline  
post #274 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 02:14 PM
Advanced Member
 
BartMan01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

The reality is that if one is constantly re-doing his/her screen in the hopes of making it better "on the cheap" it will eventually add up to costing more than a good mfg screen (and, especially in my case, a mfg/DIY hybrid). Just something to think about.

For me, a little 're-doing' it is exactly why I went this route. Being new to FP, I wanted the flexibility to try out different options and possibly different sizes of screen. This DIY spandex method was the cheapest way for me to do that since I don't have a fixed wall to mess around on (huge window on the screen wall). I don't plan on this being my permanent screen, but with a new human resource on the way I don't know if I really want an expensive screen in reach of grubby fingers.

For anyone interested, I started with moleskin silver over white. I have been reasonably happy with it but I can see the weave from time to time and the silver does impact specific scenes in a negative way (makes already 'dull' or generally grey scenes even worse). I just received an order of the milliskin white, and have it draped over the center of the screen. First impressions are what I expected - colors 'pop' much more, contrast is noticeably impacted in my ambient light always present during the day situation. Going to see what things look like when the sun goes down, but first impressions are that I can live with the loss in contrast/total black to get the brighter whites and better color overall.

With the silver screen, I do have a user setting calibrated for it except for the needed adjustments to the gamma curve to flatten it out more (averages 2.2 and is pretty flat but the line goes more like / than --).
BartMan01 is offline  
post #275 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 03:15 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

A few months back , if people have been here a while, noticed that MM was raving about this Moleskin Spandex stuff and claiming it would perform just as well if not better than the manufacture materials both visually and acoustically. He was reccomending the Moleskin all over the forums to new members like it was the hot product of the year. Well, I admit that I bought into the hype, and considering that it was pretty cheap I would give it a try. Well, my impressions of it was pretty well documented in this thread and recent testings both here and elsewhere confirm that both visually and acoustically, it is quite subpar.

However, I am SHOCKED to have just discovered that MM was reccomending this material and hyping it without ever SEEN IT (just look at this most recent posts above). He never saw the spandex, he never touched it, let alone build a screen out of it until just recently. And for a man that never provided a single data point on testings/measurements, always attempt to discredit others and quickly seek to dismissed their data. I am not quite sure what to make of it.

Quite the expose' eh? Very adamant in your presentation. Almost dripping with self righteous indignation.

So here is the skinny.

Spandex has been used for well over 6-7 years. It was acknowledged that using Silver Moleskin would help Contrast and provide some ambient light resistance, but that one would have to have a very sufficently powered PJ to compensate for it's tendency to absorb light.

Well fast forward to the last 16-18 months. Renewed interest in a viable DIY AT application developed, and a few very through and concise members gave it a shot again, and felt very satisfied. Between what I had read coming from members from quite a while back (...when most did not have sufficient lumen...) about their results...both the Roses & Thorns...it was easy enough to determine Spandex's net worth, and limitations.

So look to the present day - 12 months past> Absolutely, based on what I had read and discussed with other members, if someone was looking for a inexpensive DIY AT Screen, I had no compunction about suggesting Spandex. And I always let a Poster know the good, and the "not so good"...and advised them of the need for having at least 2000+ lumens. Or more...2500 - 3000 lumen.

Every one. Even you, smokarz.

At issue is the fact that you as an individual did not like the suggested material (...you didn't have the suggested lumen output either, did you...?) so you looked elsewhere. Good.

But a lot more people than just you are not grousing and being accusatory or insulting....either. Perhaps they listened...or understood things more clearly.

In any case, after the recent tests, as well as seeing at least two members have a bit of difficulty getting the brightness they wanted, I did in fact stop suggesting the Silver Moleskin over White, (I even held off on another Spandex Screen project because of the more recently posted results...) opting to recommend the White over Silver, which was the combination that garnered a lot more acceptance. And...I while I looked at Metallic Spandex I found and ordered the Light Silver Milliskin, while almost simultaneously another member did as well, and his observations encouraged me to press ahead.

And as a result of what I did read, and by experimenting with the Milliskin in hand against a variety of painted Screens, i felt more that justified in suggestion both Light Silver over White, and White over Light Silver (all Milliskin..) as being the best combination.....of any so far to date. I made some Screens. I accomplished what I intended. I have been hoping for some tests to come in to show the actual advantages....or not.

But here's the facts....anyone who is doing DIY must accept that their own results might not measure up to expectations. That one person's experience isn't a success does not mean that all other similar efforts are doomed to failure. And BTW, you won't find a single post by me where I ever claimed direct use of Spandex....until recently. And when i did use it, I said that was the case. I advised of it's potential and uses based on many written attestations by AVS members. And now I'm a member of that Club myself.

You said you didn't know what to think....now you can think on it in detail. And while thinking....think about all the members who are in fact happy with their Spandex recommendation. They do count in all this, you know.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #276 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 05:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zheka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago burbs
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post


However, I am SHOCKED to have just discovered that MM was reccomending this material and hyping it without ever SEEN IT (just look at this most recent posts above). He never saw the spandex, he never touched it, let alone build a screen out of it until just recently. And for a man that never provided a single data point on testings/measurements, always attempt to discredit others and quickly seek to dismissed their data. I am not quite sure what to make of it.

If I understand his reply correctly, MM has not seen/tried Moleskin to this day. all his very detailed though ever changing recommendations for this moleskin layered over that moleskin using this projector with this much ambient light are based on nothing. hell, I have more experience with moleskin than he does.
zheka is offline  
post #277 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 06:26 PM
Member
 
bjohnson1123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartMan01 View Post

I found it at Lowe's in Texas, but no HD.

Where at? Im in the Woodlands.
bjohnson1123 is offline  
post #278 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 07:07 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

If I understand his reply correctly, MM has not seen/tried Moleskin to this day. all his very detailed though ever changing recommendations for this moleskin layered over that moleskin using this projector with this much ambient light are based on nothing. hell, I have more experience with moleskin than he does.

I guess I didn't include enough .......? .

I received and examined Moleskin Silver and Whit at the same time I received the Milliskin varieties and that cemented my opinion. When held up against Milliskin the differences are quite striking. Does that mean I, or anyone made a mistake considering, mentioning, op Moleskin? It it a crime to not know from the start what might work best? It only seems to matter to you as a way to try to prove a point.

Your showing that you cannot grasp how having a good deal of practical experience of an extremely broad allows me a bit more leeway than someone with extremely limited experience. But really now, have I ever stated such as being the case? Will that be the basis for another "if I understand..." just to find out you in fact do not?

Does it trouble you so much that I can feel compelled to interact with and advise someone on an application I myself might not have tried? Seems to. Well surprise again. I receive up to or more than a hundred PMs a month, often up to 10+ a day On a variety of subjects from "every" sort of DIY Screens, requests for advice on Mfg Screen choices, help with Theater Build design and construction, Electronics and Accessories.....just about anything a DIY'er would / will consider or need. Your not the one to question my ability or right to answer questions or offer help. (...you can always ask why though...) And it rings hollow for anyone to criticize my defense of DIY ideals when the one doing the complaining has already voted against such.

Get over it. I realized that there was something better than I was suggesting...went to the effort to check it out personally, and changed my suggestion based on my experience and correlating that with the experience posted by others.. I'm fairly certain you won't find many who will agree with your comments.

So let the Thread go back to being what it is supposed to be, not a couple of guys trying to organize a Vigilante Meeting. There is a different Forum you can do that on.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #279 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 07:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zheka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago burbs
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Does it trouble you so much that I can feel compelled to interact with and advise someone on an application I myself might not have tried?

forget about me. it should trouble you really.
at the very least you should provide a disclaimer that you advise is at best (!) a speculation based on hearsay.
zheka is offline  
post #280 of 723 Old 03-01-2013, 07:33 PM
Member
 
bjohnson1123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

And here's the frame with tight screen caps attached.

I'll cut down the corner edges so they are squared.



DSC02692.jpg

DSC02691.jpg

DSC02690.jpg


This comes in 8ft length, so did you have to cut it to size for the side of the frame. If so what did you use to do so?
bjohnson1123 is offline  
post #281 of 723 Old 03-02-2013, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 63
I use a miter saw to cut it. But you can just use a utility knife to score and cut. That's what I use to trim down the corners.
smokarz is online now  
post #282 of 723 Old 03-02-2013, 06:02 PM
Senior Member
 
ScAndal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Posts: 425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 26
How are you going to hang the screen?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ScAndal is offline  
post #283 of 723 Old 03-03-2013, 07:52 AM
Member
 
PixelPusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Hey Smokarz - I've been inspired this thread and others! great pics by the way. Quick question: Did you paint your frame? Especially, wondering about the center supports... are they visible?
PixelPusher is offline  
post #284 of 723 Old 03-03-2013, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScAndal View Post

How are you going to hang the screen?


Use french cleat. You can buy them at HD or Lowes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PixelPusher View Post

Hey Smokarz - I've been inspired this thread and others! great pics by the way. Quick question: Did you paint your frame? Especially, wondering about the center supports... are they visible?


No, I did not paint. If you look through the thread I also built an outer frame on the front with 1x2 studs so that the inner frame and support bars do not touch the fabric. And with two layers, I doubt you see the frame underneath.
smokarz is online now  
post #285 of 723 Old 03-03-2013, 09:10 AM
Member
 
PixelPusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Yep - I saw that - was just curious. I've seen other threads where they painted their frame black and I think I recall a comment from MM about painting center supports white or light grey.
Thanks for the quick reply!
PixelPusher is offline  
post #286 of 723 Old 03-07-2013, 07:55 AM
Member
 
bjohnson1123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
OK this might sound dumb but as far as my screen goes. 96 X 54 is 110 without a black trim. So basically its 106 with the trim?

If i do not want to loose that 4 inches would my dimensions actually be 100 X 58?
bjohnson1123 is offline  
post #287 of 723 Old 03-07-2013, 10:27 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnson1123 View Post

OK this might sound dumb but as far as my screen goes. 96 X 54 is 110 without a black trim. So basically its 106 with the trim?

If i do not want to loose that 4 inches would my dimensions actually be 100 X 58?

Yep...yessir....that's right. The two additional inches allow for plenty of area to secure Trim to, and cover the under laying Wood.

However, if your using 2x3s, with the 2.5" width laying Flat, you really need to increase those measurements to 5" additional (101" x 59")

The "2 inch" figure really described the amount of space left around the edges of a Screen painted onto a Solid Sheet material. With a true "Framed Spandex" assembly, the extra size must be tailored to match up with whatever width one needs to cover, or...you can add a ring of wood strips screwed onto and around the edges to fill it out to the desired width.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #288 of 723 Old 03-08-2013, 08:33 AM
Member
 
bjohnson1123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
HELP!!!!!

What all goes with this screen tight system?

I think i just bought only the base part shown in smokarz pics.

I saw on youtube a rubber that goes in the channels to lock down the screen then a top cap.

Is this so?

Quick response needed... thanks
bjohnson1123 is offline  
post #289 of 723 Old 03-08-2013, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnson1123 View Post

HELP!!!!!

What all goes with this screen tight system?

I think i just bought only the base part shown in smokarz pics.

I saw on youtube a rubber that goes in the channels to lock down the screen then a top cap.

Is this so?

Quick response needed... thanks


Yes, that's correct. You also need to buy the spline that locks into the channel on the base, on top of the spandex.

Something like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100389349?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=spline+screen&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100389349#.UToX0lcmHs4
smokarz is online now  
post #290 of 723 Old 03-08-2013, 09:10 AM
Member
 
bjohnson1123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Yes, that's correct. You also need to buy the spline that locks into the channel on the base, on top of the spandex.

Something like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100389349?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=spline+screen&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100389349#.UToX0lcmHs4

could i use a pizza roller to push the spline in?
bjohnson1123 is offline  
post #291 of 723 Old 03-08-2013, 09:40 AM
Member
 
efaust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnson1123 View Post

HELP!!!!!

What all goes with this screen tight system?

I think i just bought only the base part shown in smokarz pics.

I saw on youtube a rubber that goes in the channels to lock down the screen then a top cap.

Is this so?

Quick response needed... thanks


You need screen spline. It should be right where you bought the screen tight. There are different diameters, but I think I bought the .175. The brand was New York Wire (from Lowes). You'll also need a roller knife to push the spline into the channel.
efaust is offline  
post #292 of 723 Old 03-08-2013, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnson1123 View Post

could i use a pizza roller to push the spline in?



Just pick up a roller knife next to where you would get the spline. It's cheap, around $1 or so.
smokarz is online now  
post #293 of 723 Old 03-10-2013, 10:43 AM
Senior Member
 
jonathanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 46
What a great read. I'm going on days-off from work (I get a week off at a time) so I might tackle this project. I currently have a Costco brand 16:9 "Mustang" brand screen. I've been happy with the picture, but the tensioning for it isn't the greatest. Still, at $140 to my door it wasn't a bad deal.

I need to take some measurements. The room is 11' wide with 7.5' to the drop ceilings, how big of a screen can I go in relation to the side walls ? I can build a false wall 27" off the real wall. This would allow me to place my speakers at the borders of the screen, and get them out of the corners of the room.
jonathanc is offline  
post #294 of 723 Old 03-10-2013, 12:19 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Lots of other factors must be considered. A big detriment to having an oversize screen is your Ceiling Height. The other would involve not having enough Lumen output (...you have a HD33 I recall...) or the Throw distance needed. Lastly, do you want 2.35:1 or 16:9 formatting. In truth, you can go significantly wider with a 2.35:1 screen than you can by trying to squeeze a 16:9'er between the Floor and that 7.5' ceiling.

The following is based upon you having the HD33's Lumen output being able to provide 15 foot lambert.from 15'-6" Throw onto a 10' "wide" "White over White" Spandex surface that has approx .9 gain

If your side walls are effectively masked against reflectivity, then with 2.35:1 image you could go as big 50" x 120" (130" diagonal) That would leave you 6" to each side, and should accommodate you placing the Right / Left / Center speakers behind the screen area.

However, as you must already know...the HD33 has a whoppin' 19" Lens-to-Image offset. So if you used a mount that placed the HD33 lens within 5" of the Ceiling, you'd start out with a Top Edge of the Screen at 24" down from a 90" Ceiling height.

That's 70" from the Floor. Subtract the 50" of the Screen area, and you are left with 20". That Sir is just about the bare minimum.

Of course you can tilt the PJ and use the Vertical Keystone feature. Most will opt to do so, owing to that big offset. But you want to avoid that as much as possible, especially if a 2.35" image is in the offing.

The end result of, and main consideration of using this scenario is that no matter what else, you cannot go much if any Taller or Wider, image-wise. A 16:9 Image will always be limited height-wise. But...2.35:1 content can expand outward width-wise considerably, filling the entire front of the room with a Cinematic Wide image while not losing an inch in height. This also means you'd be required to do specific Keystone / Zoom adjustments when viewing different content...so yeas...that also must be considered a detriment. But the gain in horizontal image size (31 inches...) might well convince you that such is worth it.

You should use the White Milliskin over White Milliskin. Using White-on White will provide you with the greatest retention of reflected brightness. A Silver Milliskin backing will result in improved Black levels, but not the excessive additional attenuation that using a Black Backing would result in. However it will reduce foot lambert by another 2 points in value. (14 fl to 12 fl )

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #295 of 723 Old 03-13-2013, 06:20 AM
Newbie
 
UnDsputed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: MI
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Looks Awsome!
UnDsputed is offline  
post #296 of 723 Old 03-13-2013, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

What a great read. I'm going on days-off from work (I get a week off at a time) so I might tackle this project. I currently have a Costco brand 16:9 "Mustang" brand screen. I've been happy with the picture, but the tensioning for it isn't the greatest. Still, at $140 to my door it wasn't a bad deal.

I need to take some measurements. The room is 11' wide with 7.5' to the drop ceilings, how big of a screen can I go in relation to the side walls ? I can build a false wall 27" off the real wall. This would allow me to place my speakers at the borders of the screen, and get them out of the corners of the room.



There are lots of factors to consider. What PJ do you have? Tthis would be the biggest deciding factor in terms of brightness available to drive a HUGE screen, as well as mounting distance from screen as well as from ceiling.

However, before you decide to build a Moleskin Spandex screen and put your speakers behind it, I would STRONGLY SUGGEST to take a look at these threads where both the Spandex's acoustic and video qualities were tested and measured.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1454505/acoustic-transparency-of-spandex-the-truth/90#post_23075010
smokarz is online now  
post #297 of 723 Old 03-13-2013, 01:25 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

There are lots of factors to consider.

Must be an echo.....?
Quote:
What PJ do you have? This would be the biggest deciding factor in terms of brightness available to drive a HUGE screen, as well as mounting distance from screen as well as from ceiling.


jonathanc
has stated on another Thread he has a Optoma HD33, as did I as well in my post above. As such, the size I suggested will accommodate that PJ's lumen output if all the other installation criteria are met.
Quote:
However, before you decide to build a Moleskin Spandex screen and put your speakers behind it, I would STRONGLY SUGGEST to take a look at these threads where both the Spandex's acoustic and video qualities were tested and measured.

jonathanc
was not advised to use Moleskin....as plainly stated and seen above. He was directed to consider the White over White Milliskin variety. In any case, unless he is determined to use test equipment and bother to hang a Graph on his wall, there is NO WAY he will notice any degradation of sound quality. Test and Graphs do not represent in any way how a end user will determine audio quality using the aforementioned application. The only people who get anything out of such, when the differences are as minimal as they are, are those who can only cozy up to using something that represents a level of perfection that is not conclusive as to what the average DIY end user either needs or desires. I've seen a lot of posts touting how spandex is deficient in aural quality, as seen on a "Graph"....but strangely enough...I haven't seen anything posted where someone has said that they could actually hear any noticeable difference in sound quality.

The latter alone is what has made, and continues to make Spandex a very viable DIY choice.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #298 of 723 Old 03-13-2013, 01:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 556
I can assure you the audible difference would be easily heard in a blind test if using two layers of Moleskin, so well done for not recommending that. A 6db loss in the treble will make any speaker sound anemich, boring, dull, and bad. To anyone. If the speaker isn't placed close enough and the comb filtering extends down to 1khz (as measured) the speaker will sound phasy, smeared, less-detailed, and wrong. Although admittedly, likely not as noticeabl to the average user as someone with a lot of blind listening experience. But why not achieve the best available.

Still hoping to test the milliskin smile.gif
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #299 of 723 Old 03-14-2013, 07:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
design1stcode2nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 34
I guess I'm going to have to order a sample of the XD Seymour fabric and see if I find it to be significantly better than what I have now. It seems you can use the same spline method with it that I have now so it would just be the cost of the fabric (that's going to be $200 just for the fabric so nothing I'd do anytime soon). They do have a non-AT 1.3 gain fabric that I may also get a sample of but I'd have to staple that.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 (flood resilient build)
 

Play like a Raven

design1stcode2nd is offline  
post #300 of 723 Old 03-14-2013, 10:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
blastermaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sunny Okanagan
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Just remember with the XD, the min. seating distance is 8', but really it's more like 10' for you to not notice the weave. It's also really hard to gauge how good it is with a small sample, but what can you do? If you have a really bright projector, you're going to have to really dial it down in order to get good blacks. My grey spandex had better blacks, for sure. My pj doesn't have a great contrast ratio, but I don't really care as I love it nice and bright and watch lots of 3D. The spline method works fine for this material, even though it is pretty thick.

blastermaster is offline  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off