110" DIY Spandex AT Screen - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 09:49 AM
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Staples it is then. Screen Tight would cost a few bucks too as I live in Sweden.
Mhuthcins: Great screenshots. Black behind white seems to work great.
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post #452 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 10:27 AM
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I used staples too.
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post #453 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW View Post

Mhuthcins: Great screenshots. Black behind white seems to work great.

Hey Jonas, keep in mind that my black layer is not adjacent to the white layer. It is separated by 25mm. I tried this method to try and avoid the gain loss of the two layers in contact, yet still prevent bleed-through from ruining my contrast. I never tested the "normal" arrangement, so I can't say this method is better, but I can say I am very pleased and it works better than a botched Silver Fire on canvas screen that I previously made.

Mike
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post #454 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post

Hey Jonas, keep in mind that my black layer is not adjacent to the white layer. It is separated by 25mm. I tried this method to try and avoid the gain loss of the two layers in contact, yet still prevent bleed-through from ruining my contrast. I never tested the "normal" arrangement, so I can't say this method is better, but I can say I am very pleased and it works better than a botched Silver Fire on canvas screen that I previously made.

Mike

Good to know, thanks!
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post #455 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 12:32 PM
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What's the reason behind using polar for the frame? I just picked up 1x4 common board and I just got my spandex in the mail. Before I go too far, will the boards I have be sufficient? I can't see why not?
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post #456 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 12:58 PM
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If you mean poplar, I think it was suggested as a wood that was less likely to warp over time. Common pine board can warp or twist under certain conditions. Or it could be that's what the person who built the first frame had available and everyone else copied because it worked for him.

I put together my frame from square aluminum tubing about a year and a half ago. At that time, the popular frame design was black out cloth (BOC) stretched over a wood 1x3" frame. I didn't have the tools or the carpentry skills to attempt to make the frame myself, so I followed a recommendation on a thread here to use a company called 80/20 that has products for making custom designs out of square aluminum tubing and plastic joining pieces (think Erector set or Construx toys). I had to go through a local engineering firm that is an 80/20 reseller to get a design for what I wanted, then all the pieces were custom cut-to-length and shipped to my house for just under $100. I paid a little more for ease of installation than the materials for a wood frame would have, but having a sturdy frame that will last me forever, and can have screen fabrics changed very easily was worth it in my mind.

That's the whole spirit of DIY, everyone has different needs, skills, finances, requirements; and building your own screen can help you build something that fits those areas better than a store bought solution. Common board is cheap, so if it feels sturdy and straight enough for you, I say go for it. Common board is also cheap, so if it doesn't work you can always replace it and not be out that much money.
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post #457 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 01:24 PM
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Yes, poplar...stupid auto correct. Since I already have the common board and I'm using the screen tight it will be very simple to rebuild if needed. I'll just go with it for now and see how it goes.
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post #458 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 02:06 PM
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Common Board (Pine) that is kiln dried select and hand picked will work fine "IF" one uses some type of attachment directly to the wall at multiple locations around the perimeter to help resist any tendency to warp or twist over time.
.
Eye Hole brackets onto Stud Mounted Screws is the easiest method.

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post #459 of 765 Old 10-24-2013, 05:45 PM
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I used MDF trim.
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post #460 of 765 Old 10-25-2013, 10:18 AM
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Ordering fabrics from spandexworld tomorrow. The shipping costs more then the fabric....
But I can't really decide yet on what fabrics to use. I'm going crazy. The shipping is so expensive so I can't just order some more fabric if it fails.

2x matte white should bring me closest to gain 1.0, right? I know that the Sony HW-15 in eco mode can handle that gain and size (100" 16:9) without a problem.
BUT, I'm really afraid that I will be able to see the speakers behind the screen. It can't be a coincidence that Enlightor and Elite use black backing.

Black backing though, would probably give me a gain similiar to their screens, just above 0.7. And that requires alot of lumens, lumens my Sony doesn't have.

Is silverbacking the way to go for me or am I just paranoid? Is 2x Whites going to work great regarding see-through?

Here is a picture of my front system. I was thinking about standing the subs upp and turning them against each other and then placing the fronts i the corners and the center on a stand in the middle.

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post #461 of 765 Old 10-25-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW View Post

Ordering fabrics from spandexworld tomorrow. The shipping costs more then the fabric....
But I can't really decide yet on what fabrics to use. I'm going crazy. The shipping is so expensive so I can't just order some more fabric if it fails.

2x matte white should bring me closest to gain 1.0, right? I know that the Sony HW-15 in eco mode can handle that gain and size (100" 16:9) without a problem.
BUT, I'm really afraid that I will be able to see the speakers behind the screen. It can't be a coincidence that Enlightor and Elite use black backing.

Black backing though, would probably give me a gain similiar to their screens, just above 0.7. And that requires alot of lumens, lumens my Sony doesn't have.

Is silverbacking the way to go for me or am I just paranoid? Is 2x Whites going to work great regarding see-through?

Here is a picture of my front system. I was thinking about standing the subs upp and turning them against each other and then placing the fronts i the corners and the center on a stand in the middle.

Since shipping is so much, why not buy 2x White and 1x Black? You can always sell the extra off to another AVS'er, and you won't have to regret not buying extra like I did (why oh why, didn't I buy light silver Milliskin? )
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post #462 of 765 Old 10-25-2013, 10:50 AM
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I might do that, but a few extra yards of fabric is like 30-35$ extra in shipping. Expansive if you ask me. Then add customs and tax on all that.
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post #463 of 765 Old 10-27-2013, 06:06 PM
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Are you in Canada? Use Fabric land athletic spandex. I have a thread with some details.
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post #464 of 765 Old 10-27-2013, 06:13 PM
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Sweden. I ordered some packs of Screen Tight, a rollerknife, 5 yards of Milliskin matte white and 3 yards of matte black If dual layers of white won't cut it.

Quite pricy with shipping, but still, only 1/15 of what a EN4K would cost me.
I'm gonna try to attach the Screen Tight to my Grandview Velvet Cinema frame somehow, glue?
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post #465 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAstronaut View Post

Also, has anyone been in communication with Spandexworld about if/when they might be getting more of the milliskin light silver back in stock? I've heard great things about this material and would love to try it out. If Spandexworld isn't carrying it anymore, is there another place we could source it from?

I think I buried my own question in a response, so I'll repost it separately for people to comment on.
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post #466 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAstronaut View Post

I think I buried my own question in a response, so I'll repost it separately for people to comment on.

No direct news, but the last shortage lasted about 2.5 weeks or so.

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post #467 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW View Post

Sweden. I ordered some packs of Screen Tight, a rollerknife, 5 yards of Milliskin matte white and 3 yards of matte black If dual layers of white won't cut it.

Quite pricy with shipping, but still, only 1/15 of what a EN4K would cost me.
I'm gonna try to attach the Screen Tight to my Grandview Velvet Cinema frame somehow, glue?

Use a quick set epoxy. One that is benign to Plastic. Make certain the bead applied is continuous.

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post #468 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I was pretty sure that was your intent, only that the process involved, based on what you read elsewhere, was only going to result in some degree of discord as well as a removal of any such posted link by the Moderator...as has been the case before.
Encouraging someone else to do what you yourself already know from personal experience is not allowed seems rather...well, any name you put on it, it still isn't right. Instead you could ask Tangled to PM you that info, read it, report back what was in fact related, or simply go back and ask for it personally, therein maintaining both Forum decorum and the wishes of the Forum management.
That can be done across the entire scope of all available sources...and no one can say it's not OK for someone to attempt such. But that is not the issue, nor does it relate to both what was stated about the specific application being discussed here, how it was stated and by whom, and why direct links to such are not allowed because of the source. It's not my rule....but as the very individual who was the intended focus of the remarks, as well as the one whose advice and determination was so adamantly called into dispute, I feel I do have a specific right to address such if it comes to bear.

It's easy enough to ascertain a way to accomplish the posting of pertinent and correct information by researching and over-viewing varied sources without given service and exposure to those who post with the primary intent to discount and belittle, especially at the expense of actually giving correct information. And ya know....it never starts here on AVS...that should speak for itself.
A great idea....simply take the best focused, closest possible shot you can, then put into your Photo Editor and try resizing a cropped area up to 400%. That might do it. Don't worry about being "beat to it"...every varied and seperate example only adds to the available information.
Well we both knew that was going to be the case. I had stated several times that very observation, and posted some excellent images as well. I certainly would not post such if I felt I would be taken to task and proven wrong. Not a lot of sense in that.

In the end of it all, any degree of slight variance from absolute perfection can be dealt with. Very slight color shifts can be calibrated out, any slight amount of sharpness restored easily enough, especially if the screen's surface does not accentuate pixelation. In my 2.35:1 projects involving Spandex, I used a Darbee Darblet to counter the Panasonic's Softer image that is a product of it's "Smooth Screen" technology. You on the other hand have a Lycos-based JVC with a ultra sharp image and no pixel structure natively...without assistance.

Knowing all that, as well as knowing so much more about a variety of things "PJ-Screen" related should keep anyone so informed from making false or derogatory statements simply for effect. But still it happens, and unfortunately for those reasons. And when that happens, people needing assistance and advice can lose out terribly by missing out on just the type information smokarz so rightly stated is so desirable...and the right of everyone to be privy to.

So let's get back to discussing the excellent prospects inherent in Spandex applications! And let's see some Screen shots!




It's a shame that this forum is still not secured enough to allow link from external resources that has very good information on spandex building screens. It's like dealing with an immature child.

There are more than one school of thoughts, and obviously more than one way to build a spandex screen.

As a member here asked about the different backing layer, another forum member was kind enough to point to someone experimenting with black layer and had success with it. I think it's beneficial to all who are interested in building a spandex screen to have that information readily available and accessible. Even respected screen manufacturers are using a black layer in their commercial AT screens, so there are ast least some validity to its usage. Don't be so quick to discredit something simply because it did not come out of your shop.

Let's try to keep this thread informational please, regardless where that information might have come from as long as it's related to spandex screen build.
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post #469 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 12:48 PM
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Blame the antics and attitudes that come from elsewhere, as they alone were responsible for the edict. No arm twisting was needed nor done here to convince the "powers that be" of what was needed to stifle such.

Yeah...it is a shame...so post your missive where it might do some good and change those "childish" attitudes.

And BTW, the nature of the first sentence of your post and the alluded insulting reference about childishness is exactly what creates...and created the impasse in the first place. And furthing the conversation only creates more of the same opportunity to keeps things boiling away.

I know full well what role Black has played with AT screens, and one thing it was NOT used for was a direct backing against the actual reflective surface. Ever. With perforated or weaved AT screens, such would have simply accentuated the holes / weave, and heightened the potential "Morie" effect. It was used solely as a masking of surfaces behind the screen. As some Mfg AT screens developed smaller perforations or weave patterns, the need for such masking in the rear became less...unless there were objects that were very close to the rear surface that needed masking to prevent reflections....or with some Screens, actually being seen. Even so, at no time have I ever seen any reference that such a "Black" covering be placed directly against the rear surface of a Mfg AT screen. The darn things had enough issue being acoustically transparent with just one layer of material, let alone with the addition of another. No...because it was always an additional concern about having such Black coverings also be acoustically transparent, and the obvious need to keep them directly as close against the speakers being used to prevent combing issues, it was never suggested that a "Fabric wall" be hung. It's virtually assured you won't find any such reference no matter how hard you look.

That Black can help reduce excessive light from returning to the surface is certainly a well know and accepted fact. What was not acceptable was the wholly dismissive statement that anything less than Black is undesirable.That was simply a contradictory statement to put emphasis on a personal point being made against advice given on this Forum. Instead of qualifying that statement by saying that if sufficient lumen output was available...or excessive lumen output especially...that a Black backing could and would be beneficial, a blanket statement was made that any use of a White or Silver backing...under any circumstance, was "WRONG" and would result in a lessening of image quality.

Such statements only serve to lessen the relevance and credibility behind such "advice"....so you should come to realize that it is just those sort of folks who are being quick to discredit something simply because it did not come out of "their" shop.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #470 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

Spandexworld has been out of light silver for weeks/months and from my conversations with them there were no plans to obtain more.

........and it should be noted that direct comparisons of the Spandex World's "Light Silver" against their own "Silver" didn't reap any real significant difference in shade.

I also suggest you give RTK's recommendation a try.

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post #471 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAstronaut View Post

Also, has anyone been in communication with Spandexworld about if/when they might be getting more of the milliskin light silver back in stock? I've heard great things about this material and would love to try it out. If Spandexworld isn't carrying it anymore, is there another place we could source it from?.


Spandexworld has been out of light silver for weeks/months and from my conversations with them there were no plans to obtain more. As I posted earlier in this thread, the Silver they currently stock is more of a medium gray. Silver from NY Fashion Center is probably closer to what you are looking but get a swatch and see for yourself

Rick
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post #472 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 01:44 PM
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MM, you are too fast...

Rick
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post #473 of 765 Old 10-28-2013, 03:26 PM
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Wow, you guys are fast!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

As some Mfg AT screens developed smaller perforations or weave patterns, the need for such masking in the rear became less...unless there were objects that were very close to the rear surface that needed masking to prevent reflections....or with some Screens, actually being seen.

LOL, one of my biggest gripes about my local cineplex is sitting in the "sweet spot" of the theater and seeing reflections from the center channel speakers through the screen during the movie! I Guess even professional AT materials have their weaknesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

That Black can help reduce excessive light from returning to the surface is certainly a well know and accepted fact. What was not acceptable was the wholly dismissive statement that anything less than Black is undesirable.That was simply a contradictory statement to put emphasis on a personal point being made against advice given on this Forum. Instead of qualifying that statement by saying that if sufficient lumen output was available...or excessive lumen output especially...that a Black backing could and would be beneficial, a blanket statement was made that any use of a White or Silver backing...under any circumstance, was "WRONG" and would result in a lessening of image quality.

Indeed, I receive great enjoyment from my white Moleskin with a black backing, however I'm using a short-throw projector with ~2300 lumen output which puts plenty of light on the screen. I do my viewing in a room that has almost nothing in the way of light control, so during dwindling daylight hours I certainly lose some contrast which is why I'm pursuing a silver/gray material to see if I can extend my viewing hours in the summer months. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

Spandexworld has been out of light silver for weeks/months and from my conversations with them there were no plans to obtain more. As I posted earlier in this thread, the Silver they currently stock is more of a medium gray. Silver from NY Fashion Center is probably closer to what you are looking but get a swatch and see for yourself

Thanks for the recommendation RTK, I'll definitely order a sample to see how it turns out!
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post #474 of 765 Old 10-29-2013, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JonasW View Post

Sweden. I ordered some packs of Screen Tight, a rollerknife, 5 yards of Milliskin matte white and 3 yards of matte black If dual layers of white won't cut it.

Quite pricy with shipping, but still, only 1/15 of what a EN4K would cost me.
I'm gonna try to attach the Screen Tight to my Grandview Velvet Cinema frame somehow, glue?

Hi, Jonas!
Since I am swedish too, i will continue på svenska... wink.gif

Jag är bara lite nyfiken, var lyckades du beställa Screen Tight?
Jag har försökt få hem lister via Amazon i månader och det slutade med att min kusin köpte på plats och tog med sig hem...

/Johan
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post #475 of 765 Old 10-29-2013, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faceplant72 View Post

Hi, Jonas!
Since I am swedish too, i will continue på svenska... wink.gif

Jag är bara lite nyfiken, var lyckades du beställa Screen Tight?
Jag har försökt få hem lister via Amazon i månader och det slutade med att min kusin köpte på plats och tog med sig hem...

/Johan

Oh no ya don't!

Courtesy always dictates including the translation!

"I'm just a little curious, where did you order the Screen Tight?
I have been trying to get home lister via Amazon in months and ended up with my cousin bought on the spot and took home ... "

/Johan


......brought to you in part and in "error filled format" by your Multilingual MississippiMan, (and Google Translator biggrin.gif )

So Johan, please correct the errors and keep us all in the loop. wink.gif

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post #476 of 765 Old 10-29-2013, 09:37 AM
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Okay, finally got all brain cells in a row and remembered to bring my swatches and camera to work. Here are some close-up shots of the various fabrics that I have samples for including the famed and now impossible to find Milliskin Matte Light Silver. I tried to take close enough pictures to show the weave in detail to help people know what they will be getting when they order. I did also include a close-up of my Moleskin Matte White, but since I did not have time to get a shot of an un-stretched portion of the screen please take that into consideration when ordering.

Here is a handy guide of the numbers from the sample sheet with their corresponding Spandexworld product ID's:
1 - 796
2 - 6409
3 - 795
4 - 5954

First up is the Milliskin Matte Black (SpandexWorld ID: 796)


Next is the Moleskin Matte Silver (ID: 6409)


Third, is the Milliskin Matte White (ID: 795)


Fourth, is the Milliskin Matte Light Silver. No longer available, but ID is included for completeness (ID: 5954)


Lastly, is the Moleskin Matte White. Remember this picture is of the fabric in stretched state! (ID: 977)


Also, note the mounted Moleskin White does have a black backing, though I don't think it significantly changes the color in the picture above.

Hope that makes things clearer for some folks, I remember the pictures on the Spandexworld site not being particularly helpful when I was ordering.
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post #477 of 765 Old 10-29-2013, 09:41 AM
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Moleskin.....aptly named. rolleyes.gif

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post #478 of 765 Old 10-29-2013, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Oh no ya don't!

Courtesy always dictates including the translation!

"I'm just a little curious, where did you order the Screen Tight?
I have been trying to get home lister via Amazon in months and ended up with my cousin bought on the spot and took home ... "

/Johan


......brought to you in part and in "error filled format" by your Multilingual MississippiMan, (and Google Translator biggrin.gif )

So Johan, please correct the errors and keep us all in the loop. wink.gif

Ha, ha!
Sorry MM, my bad, here's the "probably-not-so-correct" translation:

"I'm just a bit curious, where did you manage to order the Screen Tights?
I've been trying to get base strips home via Amazon for months and it ended up with my cousin buying them on site and bringing them home..."

tongue.gif
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post #479 of 765 Old 10-29-2013, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Use a quick set epoxy. One that is benign to Plastic. Make certain the bead applied is continuous.

I'll try that, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by faceplant72 View Post

Ha, ha!
Sorry MM, my bad, here's the "probably-not-so-correct" translation:

"I'm just a bit curious, where did you manage to order the Screen Tights?
I've been trying to get base strips home via Amazon for months and it ended up with my cousin buying them on site and bringing them home..."

tongue.gif

Well, I better continue this in english then wink.gif
I used shopusa.com, a bit pricey but works great according to a friend. It costed me ~550:- SEK in total shipping, tax and customs fee for 1 knife, 8 packs of base strips (ordered more for a future 2.35:1 screen) and 8 yards of fabric.
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post #480 of 765 Old 10-30-2013, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW View Post

I'll try that, thanks.
Well, I better continue this in english then wink.gif
I used shopusa.com, a bit pricey but works great according to a friend. It costed me ~550:- SEK in total shipping, tax and customs fee for 1 knife, 8 packs of base strips (ordered more for a future 2.35:1 screen) and 8 yards of fabric.

Ok, Thanks! Then I know where to shop, should I need more material. The price is not so bad, considering that we can't get this stuff in Sweden... smile.gif
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