110" DIY Spandex AT Screen - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 711 Old 05-08-2014, 08:00 AM
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I think that is the most common method, yes. I have an aluminum frame so nailing wasn't an option. I finally decided to just use some felt tape around the edge of the screen to mask off a nice border. I used a product similar (if not) to this:
http://www.amazon.com/JVCC-FELT-06-Polyester-Felt-thick/dp/B000QC6HVS/

It stuck to my Moleskin spandex pretty well, but will peel off if manhandled too much. As it is I don't move my screen a lot, so this was a good cheap option for me.

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post #572 of 711 Old 05-08-2014, 08:12 AM
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Great! I have a ton of extra trim. Most people use door casing or what type?

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post #573 of 711 Old 05-08-2014, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

Great! I have a ton of extra trim. Most people use door casing or what type?

Base trim
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post #574 of 711 Old 05-13-2014, 05:51 AM
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My son and I just finished our screen. The OP's pics and instruction was spot-on. We employed a few modifications. The are as follows:

1. Even using poplar with two middle braces there was flexing of the frame (pre-spandex). We ended up applying "T" and "L" braces to both sides of the frame, making sure that the junction was level before tapping holes and screwing brackets down.

2. In an effort to keep the spandex from touching the metal and wood braces on the front, we ripped a 1/2" piece off of the poplar, attached it to the front outer edge of the frame and used a round over bit on the router to apply a 1/4" rounding. This kept the spandex looking good as it wrapped around the edge of the frame and kept it from touching anything.

3. The outside edges of the frame ()where the two pieces of wood were joined) had very sharp edges. We rounded this over with the 1/4 router bit to avoid any potential for snagging or tearing if bumped.

All in all this is a great design and fun to put together with my son (he learned how to use a router and nail gun). Thanks for the posting up this very informative and useful topic.
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post #575 of 711 Old 05-13-2014, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JonasW View Post

I just finished my DIY screen with Milliskin Matte White.
I used aluminium profiles, 1.2"x1.2 for the sides and 1.2"x2.5" for the profiles up and down. I then glued black velvet on these and mounted screen tights system on the back.

The front wall is a acousticly treated wall with black fabrics ontop and the speakers and stands are also black.
This gave me the opportunity to use only one layer of white instead of using two layers.

I tried two layers (black backing) but I couldn't see any change in the picture. I was afraid about the gain, but It's great.
I get about the same "pop" as with my grandview velvet cinema gain 1.0 but less visible structure.

Can you elaborate a little more on the aluminum profile you used? Do you have pictures or a stock number from a website?

Thanks!
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post #576 of 711 Old 05-13-2014, 11:13 AM
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Can you elaborate a little more on the aluminum profile you used? Do you have pictures or a stock number from a website?

Thanks!

It's a Swedish company, but you get the idea when you see the products smile.gif

I used these for the sides: http://www.alucon.se/profil-30-x-30-3-meter-xfbm-3x30/27-0
And these for the long ones up and down: http://www.alucon.se/profil-30-x-60-3-meter-xfbm-3x30x60/29-0

They also sold corners where you screw them together: http://www.alucon.se/hornfaste-30x30-xffa-30-c/148-0
Finally, covers for the corners: http://www.alucon.se/lock-till-hornfaste-xfbe-30-c/149-0

With a solution like this, you won't need any supporting braces in the middle, or Another frame ontop with the velvet.
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post #577 of 711 Old 05-14-2014, 10:40 AM
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I will be ordering a Panny AE8000 soon and want to complete the DIY screen before hand.  It will throw about 15 feet and be in a fully dark HT room.  From what I have seen recommended for "moderate plus gain" is:

 

White milliskin (Shiny or Matte???) over Light Silver Moleskin (Rough or Matte???) (or milliskin???)

 

Which one should I be looking at? My screen will be 120" wide and AT.  How many yards should I order of each???

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post #578 of 711 Old 05-14-2014, 12:47 PM
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You should order white matte milliskin and silver matte milliskin. Three yards of each will be sufficient. You didn't say whether you were planning to do a 16:9 or 2.39:1 format but three yards should suffice for either. You ought to consider mounting the Panny at 12'6" from the screen to get good brightness. The spandex only has a gain of about 0.8 unless you go with a shiny spandex for the underlayer and no one has tried that and reported good results to my knowledge. You definitely want the milliskin for both the picture quality and audio transparency.
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post #579 of 711 Old 05-14-2014, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahajr143 View Post

You should order white matte milliskin and silver matte milliskin. Three yards of each will be sufficient. You didn't say whether you were planning to do a 16:9 or 2.39:1 format but three yards should suffice for either. You ought to consider mounting the Panny at 12'6" from the screen to get good brightness. The spandex only has a gain of about 0.8 unless you go with a shiny spandex for the underlayer and no one has tried that and reported good results to my knowledge. You definitely want the milliskin for both the picture quality and audio transparency.

Great, thanks!  I do have flexibility to mount the PJ at 12'6".  I plan on using the 2.39:1 format for movies.  Would all this be the same for a BenQ 1070?

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post #580 of 711 Old 05-14-2014, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claybe View Post

Great, thanks!  I do have flexibility to mount the PJ at 12'6".  I plan on using the 2.39:1 format for movies.  Would all this be the same for a BenQ 1070?

If you were to go with the W1070 I would mount the projector at 11' from the screen and do a 120" diagonal 2.39:1 screen (46" x 111").
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post #581 of 711 Old 05-14-2014, 03:24 PM
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Unless I misunderstand your application, I don't think the BenQ W1070 will work. Even if it had sufficient zoom range to shrink a 16X9 image down to 2.39 height (which it doesn't), you would need to adjust zoom, focus and offset manually between each format. The Panasonic does have enough range and makes those adjustments automatically.
Saying that, I am using the W1070 on a constant area screen and do make the manual adjustments every single time. Takes me about 30 seconds flat. My wife just shakes her head.

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post #582 of 711 Old 05-14-2014, 07:13 PM
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I am planning on using the w1070 on a 130" wide 16x9 screen with the PJ mounted around 17' in a dark ht.

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post #583 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

I am planning on using the w1070 on a 130" wide 16x9 screen with the PJ mounted around 17' in a dark ht.

That isn't possible with the 1070. You would need to mount it around 13' from the screen to get a watchable image on a 130" wide (149" diagonal) 16:9 screen, and that is only if you have a screen with a gain of 1.0 or greater. If you are using spandex you should use white over white and still you will have only about 13 fl brightness, which is watchable but still pretty dim.
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post #584 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahajr143 View Post

That isn't possible with the 1070. You would need to mount it around 13' from the screen to get a watchable image on a 130" wide (149" diagonal) 16:9 screen, and that is only if you have a screen with a gain of 1.0 or greater. If you are using spandex you should use white over white and still you will have only about 13 fl brightness, which is watchable but still pretty dim.

Are you using the Projector Central calculator to make these determinations?

Is it safe to assume that a spandex screen is going to have a screen gain of 0.8 for the calculator's sake, and that the goal is to get to 16fl?

If that's the case, then a 130" screen looks like it'll massively restrict the number of projectors possible, if the screen is going to be spandex. Heck, even the extremely highly rated Sony VPL-HW50ES would be too dim given that screen type and size.


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post #585 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 07:07 AM
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Really? This is the first I have heard that it would be an issue. I thought you wanted at least 12fL. I was targeting 14. My room is like a cave when I cut the lights out. Should I go down to a 120" wide screen?

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post #586 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claybe View Post

Great, thanks! I do have flexibility to mount the PJ at 12'6". I plan on using the 2.39:1 format for movies. Would all this be the same for a BenQ 1070?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahajr143 View Post

If you were to go with the W1070 I would mount the projector at 11' from the screen and do a 120" diagonal 2.39:1 screen (46" x 111").

Claybe should consider "only" using a Panny 8000, not a 1070. Big price difference, but between the Panny's Lens Memory and higher lumen output, there really isn't a choice between the two.
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Originally Posted by granroth View Post

Are you using the Projector Central calculator to make these determinations?

Is it safe to assume that a spandex screen is going to have a screen gain of 0.8 for the calculator's sake, and that the goal is to get to 16fl?

If that's the case, then a 130" screen looks like it'll massively restrict the number of projectors possible, if the screen is going to be spandex. Heck, even the extremely highly rated Sony VPL-HW50ES would be too dim given that screen type and size.

Don't you mean "Over Rated"? ( JKA tongue.gif )

I personally have been there and done that using a Panny 8K w/no problems. Certainly, one does need lumen output for Spandex apps, but that has always been a given circumstance...as also been the necessity to mount any projector within the rearward 10% of it's minimum throw distance to assure optimal lumen delivery and foot lambert reflectivity.

I also always advise potential Spandex users of all of the above limitations. What I don't do is dismiss the possibility of success out of hand, but rather work to find the best possible choice in installation parameters that can be accommodated. However if such accommodations cannot be made, or a less than robust PJ is being employed, nothing is withheld as far as the hard truths.

Not many fail to accept such truths once they are made aware of them.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #587 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 08:57 AM
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Is there anyone using a BenQ 1070 and a spandex screen that could post screen shots?  I know the Panny 8000 would be a better projector, but the BenQ is more affordable and I could work on getting my LCRs!  I am not saying that I have ruled out the Panny, but just wondering....

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post #588 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 10:20 AM
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If you are using a 16:9 screen then the W1070 is a great choice for the money.
Unfortunately screen shots really are not going to tell you anything.
Take the opinion of a multitude of professional reviewers and owners:
Excellent, well saturated colors, bright, sharp, has lots of "pop" in high contrast scenes, but suffers like EVERY other low cost projector on absolute black levels.

Likely the only thing that may bite you is the rainbow effect, but the W1070 has a reasonably fast color wheel, so unless you are going for a very bright image you should be fine.
My wife saw rainbows aplenty on my old Acer 5360 DLP projector but almost never sees them on the BenQ.
My brain must be slower than hers (or is more easily tricked), because I'm pretty much immune the effect.

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post #589 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 10:33 AM
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Hi all,

Great thread, I plan on following the OP's methods to construct my screen and will post results when complete.

Looking for a recommendation for which layers of material to use for the following environment:

Sony VPL VWPro1
Forget the exact throw distance but max diagonal is 135"
Plan to use 120-130" diagonal 16:9 screen, going to watch some movies and HDTV for the next week to make a final decision
1 row of seating at 10' (eyes to screen distance)
Dark blue walls, dark brown cork plank flooring, full light control, white ceiling but will install a few feet of black fabric out from the top of the screen and go as far as needed to reduce reflections washing out the image

I was considering using Seymour XD material for additional gain but really want to give Spandex a shot.

I'm thinking I should be using white over white milliskin based on my conditions?
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post #590 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

If you are using a 16:9 screen then the W1070 is a great choice for the money.
Unfortunately screen shots really are not going to tell you anything.
Take the opinion of a multitude of professional reviewers and owners:
Excellent, well saturated colors, bright, sharp, has lots of "pop" in high contrast scenes, but suffers like EVERY other low cost projector on absolute black levels.

Likely the only thing that may bite you is the rainbow effect, but the W1070 has a reasonably fast color wheel, so unless you are going for a very bright image you should be fine.
My wife saw rainbows aplenty on my old Acer 5360 DLP projector but almost never sees them on the BenQ.
My brain must be slower than hers (or is more easily tricked), because I'm pretty much immune the effect.

What size screen do you have? Is it spandex?

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post #591 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post


What size screen do you have? Is it spandex?

114 inches wide Matte white milliskin spandex over black.
I intentionally kept it low gain to help lower the W1070's black level; a compromise to be sure but still plenty bright for my dark room.
Settings: Normal, Brilliant color on & Smart Eco.

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post #592 of 711 Old 05-15-2014, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post

Are you using the Projector Central calculator to make these determinations?

Is it safe to assume that a spandex screen is going to have a screen gain of 0.8 for the calculator's sake, and that the goal is to get to 16fl?

If that's the case, then a 130" screen looks like it'll massively restrict the number of projectors possible, if the screen is going to be spandex. Heck, even the extremely highly rated Sony VPL-HW50ES would be too dim given that screen type and size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Don't you mean "Over Rated"? ( JKA tongue.gif )

Well, now that's not something I was expecting to hear. As far as I could tell, the VPL-HW50ES was universally loved and it was really only the JVC DLA-X35 that could go toe-to-toe with it and expect a fair fight. I respect your years of experience on the subject, though, so I'm very curious what your take on this is.
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I personally have been there and done that using a Panny 8K w/no problems. Certainly, one does need lumen output for Spandex apps, but that has always been a given circumstance...as also been the necessity to mount any projector within the rearward 10% of it's minimum throw distance to assure optimal lumen delivery and foot lambert reflectivity.

I also always advise potential Spandex users of all of the above limitations. What I don't do is dismiss the possibility of success out of hand, but rather work to find the best possible choice in installation parameters that can be accommodated. However if such accommodations cannot be made, or a less than robust PJ is being employed, nothing is withheld as far as the hard truths.

Not many fail to accept such truths once they are made aware of them.

Okay, let's go into a few more details on this using a Panny 8K with a 130" horizontal 0.8 gain spandex screen as an example: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AE8000-projection-calculator-pro.htm

A throw distance of 15' 9" gives me a brightness of 12fl -- the lowest amount I've seen described as acceptable. Moving it just over a foot closer to 14' 7" (the absolute closest it could get for that size screen) increases the brightness to 15fl.

That means that if our goal is 16fl, that it's not physically possible to get it with that size screen; that type of screen; and that projector.

Let's stop here: what, if anything, is wrong with what I just wrote? Is 16fl an unrealistic target? Am I misinterpreting something? Does Projector Central get something wrong?

Okay, you then mention mounting the projector "within the rearward 10% of its minimum throw distance". Is this referring to the throw distance as defined by a pre-determined screen size? Or do you suggest first choosing the projector distance and then choosing the screen size? I'm not sure what you are saying with this.


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post #593 of 711 Old 05-16-2014, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post

Are you using the Projector Central calculator to make these determinations?

Is it safe to assume that a spandex screen is going to have a screen gain of 0.8 for the calculator's sake, and that the goal is to get to 16fl?

If that's the case, then a 130" screen looks like it'll massively restrict the number of projectors possible, if the screen is going to be spandex. Heck, even the extremely highly rated Sony VPL-HW50ES would be too dim given that screen type and size.

I did use Projector Central's Calculator Pro but my comment was based on a 149" diagonal screen and the potential use of spandex. At a gain of 0.8 as a worst case scenario the W1070 only gives 10fl when mounted at 17 feet from the screen. My point was that mounting it closer would improve the situation greatly, as would a smaller screen. Brightness of 16 fl should not be taken as a required minimum. As you say 12 fl is considered by some to be the minimum but watchable brightness is a very subjective thing and what is acceptable for one person may not be so for another. Using white over white spandex will give a gain higher than 0.8.
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post #594 of 711 Old 05-17-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granroth View Post


Well, now that's not something I was expecting to hear. As far as I could tell, the VPL-HW50ES was universally loved and it was really only the JVC DLA-X35 that could go toe-to-toe with it and expect a fair fight. I respect your years of experience on the subject, though, so I'm very curious what your take on this is.

I make my judgements and recommendations to both DIy'ers and Customers based on practical observations and cost to value ideals. Nothing the Sony offers at it's price point convinces me it is a better performer or value for the Money spent. It's just a "SONY" and for some...well that spells all the difference.

.........and "universally loved"? A bit of hyperbole that. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Okay, let's go into a few more details on this using a Panny 8K with a 130" horizontal 0.8 gain spandex screen as an example: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AE8000-projection-calculator-pro.htm

A throw distance of 15' 9" gives me a brightness of 12fl -- the lowest amount I've seen described as acceptable. Moving it just over a foot closer to 14' 7" (the absolute closest it could get for that size screen) increases the brightness to 15fl.

That means that if our goal is 16fl, that it's not physically possible to get it with that size screen; that type of screen; and that projector.

The difference between 15 fl and 16 fl is miniscule, and not to be considered in any way a deal breaker or testimonial to anything as being "impossible".
Quote:
Let's stop here: what, if anything, is wrong with what I just wrote? Is 16fl an unrealistic target? Am I misinterpreting something? Does Projector Central get something wrong?

You must remember that the numbers quoted from the graphs are only "close" and not precise. Sometimes they can actually be way off. Often the best advice comes from actual end users, and that sir is what this Forum is based upon.
Quote:
Okay, you then mention mounting the projector "within the rearward 10% of its minimum throw distance". Is this referring to the throw distance as defined by a pre-determined screen size? Or do you suggest first choosing the projector distance and then choosing the screen size? I'm not sure what you are saying with this.

You choose a screen size, and you have lower and upper limitations as far as ( throw distance ) where you can mount a given PJ. Of course if you pre-mount a PJ, or have a specific limitation as to where you can mount the PJ, that absolutely can limit your choice of screen size. So can room lighting conditions as well as room colors.

All in all, obtaining optimal performance means striking a balance, or having some part of the equation be able to compensate for the shortcomings of other aspects.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #595 of 711 Old 05-18-2014, 08:41 AM
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So in summary, Mississippi, do you think I could use the benq w1070 for a 130" wide 16:9 screen? If so where should I mount the projector? If not what if I lower the screen size to 120" wide? If not, what projector should I look at in the $1000 range?

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post #596 of 711 Old 05-18-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

So in summary, Mississippi, do you think I could use the benq w1070 for a 130" wide 16:9 screen? If so where should I mount the projector? If not what if I lower the screen size to 120" wide? If not, what projector should I look at in the $1000 range?

With the w1070 mounted at 11' -6' you will do just fine if the screen surface chosen is a White Milliskin over a darker material.

120" will only make things brighter by about 2 fls (17 vs 15) at 11' -6"

Stay Big...and enjoy.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #597 of 711 Old 05-18-2014, 10:21 AM
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With the w1070 mounted at 11' -6' you will do just fine if the screen surface chosen is a White Milliskin over a darker material.

120" will only make things brighter by about 2 fls (17 vs 15) at 11' -6"

Stay Big...and enjoy.

To be clear, are you saying that he should go with 120" vs 130", by your suggestion of 11'-6"? I've learned that I can't trust the brightness calculations from PC but the zoom calculations must be correct. A 130" screen appears to have a minimum distance of 12'-5".


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post #598 of 711 Old 05-18-2014, 11:24 AM
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To be clear, are you saying that he should go with 120" vs 130", by your suggestion of 11'-6"? I've learned that I can't trust the brightness calculations from PC but the zoom calculations must be correct. A 130" screen appears to have a minimum distance of 12'-5".

No I did not say that....in fact I said that doing so would only gain him 2 fl so I punctuated that comment by stating that he should stay at 130" at 11'-6"

And you are wrong about the minimum throw for that screen size. It is 10' - 10". 12' -5" is the "mid-Throw" distance....the middle of the available throw.

Believe me, I know how to use the Calculators, and if one always uses the lower end of the scales, the values are usually close enough to depend upon.

Push them the other direction and that is a different story.

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post #599 of 711 Old 05-18-2014, 11:35 AM
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No I did not say that....in fact I said that doing so would only gain him 2 fl so I punctuated that comment by stating that he should stay at 130" at 11'-6"

And you are wrong about the minimum throw for that screen size. It is 10' - 10". 12' -5" is the "mid-Throw" distance....the middle of the available throw.

Believe me, I know how to use the Calculators, and if one always uses the lower end of the scales, the values are usually close enough to depend upon.

Push them the other direction and that is a different story.

Okay. I absolutely believe that you know how to use those calculators -- I have tremendous respect for your knowledge on these matters.

Apparently I do not know how to use the calculator, though. Here's what I did.

1. I go to http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-W1070-projection-calculator-pro.htm
2. I enter in 130" as the image width. The calculator defaults to a throw distance of 14'-1" when I do that
3. I go to the Zoom box on the left and increase the zoom to the max it will allow me of 1.30x

That gives me a throw distance of 12'-5". The calculator does not allow me (that I can see) to change the zoom any more than that.

If I then change the throw distance manually to 11'-6", the screen width immediately changes to 120". In fact, the throw distance slider and image size slider appear to be directly connected by a strict ratio and are adjusted only by the zoom.

I'm obviously missing something, but what? How do I get the calculator to show me that it's possible to have a 130" wide screen at 11'-6"?


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post #600 of 711 Old 05-18-2014, 06:29 PM
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Okay. I absolutely believe that you know how to use those calculators -- I have tremendous respect for your knowledge on these matters.

Apparently I do not know how to use the calculator, though. Here's what I did.

1. I go to http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-W1070-projection-calculator-pro.htm
2. I enter in 130" as the image width. The calculator defaults to a throw distance of 14'-1" when I do that
3. I go to the Zoom box on the left and increase the zoom to the max it will allow me of 1.30x

I'm obviously missing something, but what? How do I get the calculator to show me that it's possible to have a 130" wide screen at 11'-6"?

You can manually change both the Throw and Diagonal by clicking on their respective button on the Graph on the left side.
Simply adjust the Throw on the right side Graphic Bar, the go left, click on Diagonal, and slide the Bean to 130"

You will note that when you use the Left Slider for Throw, the Screen measurements remain the same.
Use the Left Slider in Diagonal Mode and the Screen measurements all change, but not the Throw distance on the Right side graphic Bar.

If you only just use the +/- buttons for Diagonal or Throw on the right, every value involved changes proportionately.

Here is the Calculator set correctly...




Don't beat yourself up....it's a commonly overlooked feature...by many if not most....just as many take the advised "mid-point" throw distance value as sacred and final.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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