110" DIY Spandex AT Screen - Page 33 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #961 of 989 Old 05-06-2015, 09:39 AM
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Ha ha, thanks for the tips! I have a circular saw so I will try to use the guide and do my best. Probably just need more practice, but we'll see what happens. Have the outer frame cut and put the top and ends together last night using the Kreg, it really is a great tool. Just ordered some spandex as well, so slowly starting to get there.
Here is a good tip.

Although they say no glue is required, after I have drilled out my Pocket Screw holes, I have taken to gluing a corner together with Wood Glue (after positioning it exactly) and letting it dry, then screwing the pieces together. Doing it in such a manner avoids the possibility of the screws shifting the pieces slightly.

Afterward, between the Glue and the Pocket Screw, you have a Uber-strong joint going for you.
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post #962 of 989 Old 05-06-2015, 02:17 PM
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Yep....sure does. Looks like you had to do a little bit of Stapling on those corners too.

And using Black as the initial Spandex surface certainly prevents any bleed-through of frame color.

ahajr143,

You might still very well need a dual layer over the Mylar to prevent excessive pin-point Hot Spotting by the lamp's reflection.

Any such 1st surface Reflector that is not part of a true "Light Fusion" design (1/8" Gap between Screen and Reflector) requires a very specific amount of dampening. Too little and it's Hot Spot City...too much and the Reflector becomes Moot.

I'm thinking a Light Silver Grey over White would work best.
Right now I have white milliskin matte over grey moleskin matte. I was thinking of using both of those over the mylar to see if I could get a little brighter picture in Theater mode 1. Since you mention 1/8 inch gap normally from the clear acrylic sheet, would a 1/8" thick trim around the frame do the same thing without the need for any clear sheeting or is it better to just use a 1st surface mirror and go with two layers of spandex?
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post #963 of 989 Old 05-06-2015, 04:28 PM
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Well...the "Gap" in Light Fusion worked as it did because the space between the Paint and Mirrored surface became pretty evely innfused with attenuated reflected light. Much like a Neon Lamp. Now that same "Gap" might be beneficial as far as reducing the chance of any pin point of light showing through the spandex. One must bear in mind that with a painted surface, there was both attenuation and diffusion going on as the projected light passed through the paint.

With Spandex, all you really have is the attenuation, and it might be that with a 1st surface "Mirror-like" reflector directly against the rear layer, you just might still get that "pin point".

Then again....maybe not.

That uncertainty is why I choose to use White in a Spandex underlayment, when retaining as much gain as possible is important. However I urge you to give it a try with the Mylar. With and Without a Gap.

Might just be "The next Big Thing".

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post #964 of 989 Old 05-10-2015, 10:39 PM
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In the third build, are the middle braces flat?

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post #965 of 989 Old 05-11-2015, 01:40 AM
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In the third build, are the middle braces flat?
Yes, both because they are 1.5" thick, and are proportionately shorter being part of a 2.39:1 build, and because using Spandex requires less tension.

Had they been for a 16:9 frame, or if I was stretching a more rigid, non stretchable material like Black Out Cloth' I would have ripped them down to 3" and used them "on edge" for more structural rigidity.

The truth being, that was the Lumber supplied to work with when I arrived on-site. Pretty well hand picked so it was straight...no preexisting bends or twists. So because I was using 2 x 4s on edge for the exterior Frame to accommodate the Center Channel Speaker Cabinet's depth' I saw no need to go to any great lengths to reduce the depth of the Braces to place them "on-edge".

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post #966 of 989 Old 05-11-2015, 09:37 AM
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MississippiMan,

Can I use 1x3 poplar 'on edge' for the outside?

And 2x4 poplar 'flat' for the middle braces?
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post #967 of 989 Old 05-11-2015, 11:28 AM
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MississippiMan,

Can I use 1x3 poplar 'on edge' for the outside?

And 2x4 poplar 'flat' for the middle braces?
You could......although that will lend both extra expense and weight. Poplar is a denser, harder wood than Pine, so a 2 x 4 of Poplar stands to be at least 50% heavier if not more.

Here's a thought..............;
Considering that the middle bracing won't be all the much "length-wise" I would think that carefully selected Kiln Dried top grade clear Pine 2sx 4s would serve well for such bracing. Just carefully pick from the 2 x 4 x 8 pile of No#1 Quality Studs.

Shucks...I might even do likewise myself next build. The thicker supports can accommodate a horizontal bridged hand built French Cleat all the easier.

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post #968 of 989 Old 05-11-2015, 05:03 PM
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How about:

1x3 kiln-dried poplar 'on edge' for the outside

2x4 kiln-dried pine 'flat' for the middle braces

Basically a mix of poplar and pine.
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post #969 of 989 Old 05-11-2015, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ps24eva View Post
How about:

1x3 kiln-dried poplar 'on edge' for the outside

2x4 kiln-dried pine 'flat' for the middle braces

Basically a mix of poplar and pine.
I thought that was what I posted?

Here's a thought..............;
Considering that the middle bracing won't be all the much "length-wise" I would think that carefully selected Kiln Dried top grade clear Pine 2sx 4s would serve well for such bracing. Just carefully pick from the 2 x 4 x 8 pile of No#1 Quality Studs.
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post #970 of 989 Old 05-11-2015, 07:19 PM
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How do you attach your milliskin to the frame without spline?

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post #971 of 989 Old 05-11-2015, 07:26 PM
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How do you attach your milliskin to the frame without spline?
Staples.

T50 1/4"

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post #972 of 989 Old 05-12-2015, 03:10 PM
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Question: when people say white over silver or white over white, does that mean ones have to buy two fabric and install on top of each other?
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post #973 of 989 Old 05-12-2015, 03:22 PM
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Question: when people say white over silver or white over white, does that mean ones have to buy two fabric and install on top of each other?
Yes
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post #974 of 989 Old 05-12-2015, 03:35 PM
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Thanks Brian.
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post #975 of 989 Old 05-13-2015, 08:49 AM
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Question: when people say white over silver or white over white, does that mean ones have to buy two fabric and install on top of each other?
That's almost scary.

And perhaps a little revealing as obviously no real in depth reading of any past posts has been done.

Well...perhaps not completely so obvious, but it sure seems like it might be the case.

I'm only chiming in here on this to strongly encourage you to make the effort to do some comprehensive reading on various aspects of the build process, and the related reasons people choose the size screens they do as well as what projectors. Also why they chose what they do and where/why they locate the PJ where it goes.

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post #976 of 989 Old 05-20-2015, 08:09 AM
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Finally got my screen up and set last night. Learned alot from all of the great advice I received here and feel proud that I have it up. Coming from a High Power screen, I'll have to adjust a bit, but very happy overall, especially since I was able to get new speakers to put behind the screen. I've attached a couple of images, hope they show up correctly.

I've never been able to place my projector directly in the center of the screen due to ceiling mounting limitations, so I now have to fix a bit of issue with the image on the new screen not being square. I did the best I could in really trying to make everything even and level with my false wall, but I'm sure it is not perfect. Basement walls/ceiling are also not perfectly square, which makes it difficult for someone like me who isn't as handy. Hopefully I can figure something out and not get consumed with it being exactly perfect (that will be hard for me).

Thanks again to everyone who helped and gave advice, it was very much appreciated!

Also wanted to mention that my total spent on all tools/materials came out to $354.45. 100 of that was spent on the kreg jig, so to me that is really awesome.
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post #977 of 989 Old 05-20-2015, 05:46 PM
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Although a bright pattern on carpet directly below a screen is usually a No-No, I'm jammin' on the Flames effect radiating from the bottom of the screen.

Image quality looks great!

Try using some long 2x3 Blocks coming off the rear Wall behind specific areas of the Screen to push it out level

The JVC has H&V Lens shift, so if unless the placement of the PJ is almost outside the limits of the H&V parameters, then the only real issue you might have is the Mount itself. A good Mount hase total adjustment as far as Pitch / Yaw, and Camber. What are you using? Your so close, we don't want to leave you to your own devices on this point when we can gladly insert ourselves. (re: stick our noses in )

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post #978 of 989 Old 05-21-2015, 07:59 AM
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If you're sure your screen is square enough (make sure opposite sides, then diagonally measure the same).
You might consider dangling a string or something along the screen's sides to make sure it's level with the world (if the wall and ceiling aren't terribly straight..might as well use gravity).
Using your projector's lens-shift, lower the image a bit below the screen's top and adjust the projector mount "barrel roll style" until the picture line and screen top are parallel.
Zoom the image in smaller than the screen, and see how the bottom edge and screen's bottom line up.
Aim the projector mount (like turning someone's head left/right) to make the bottom of the image and the screen parallel. You turn the projector gradually toward the higher side (assuming you've zoomed smaller than the screen).
Double check that the head-turning didn't mess with your barrel-roll...if your top line isn't quite straight, you'll have to roll it straight and touch-up turn to get the bottom again.

Use lens-shift left/right to center your image.
Adjust the mount (like nodding someone's head) to make the sides parallel with the screen-sides. If the top is pinched inwar like a pyramid, tilt it up; if the bottom is pinched inward like a funnel, tilt it down.

Double check the top (barrel roll), then bottom (head turn, then sides (head nod).

Then center the image up/down and left/right using your lens-shift, and zoom out till you almost perfectly fill the screen..and double check again if you want.

The hanging strings at the screen's two sides should let you make sure the screen is both hanging straight as well as not doing a weird uneven curl.

Hopefully that's somewhat make-sense-ing...

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #979 of 989 Old 05-21-2015, 02:06 PM
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I have wait until spandex world Re stocks sliver/gray.
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post #980 of 989 Unread Yesterday, 10:56 AM
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Question for the experts. what are you using for the outside of the screen Black spandex or velvet
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post #981 of 989 Unread Yesterday, 12:30 PM
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Question for the experts. what are you using for the outside of the screen Black spandex or velvet
If by that your referring to the Border Trim that goes around the edges of the screen, either Black Velvet Wrapped Mdf Base, or 2" -3" Black Velor Felt Tape from here:
http://www.carlofet.com/black-felt-t...l#.VWTIdEb1hi0

The Tape is actually very good at what it is supposed to do...much better than others that came before it.

If your talking about the wall area off the screen, then many are using Black Spandex...others Black Velvet. One simply gets the job done, and also allows for Acoustic Transparency if the R & L Mains are to reside behind. The latter just looks better as a cover. Both cost virtually the same per sq. yard if the Velvet is purchased here:
http://www.syfabrics.com/View.aspx/P...Velvet/681/264

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post #982 of 989 Unread Yesterday, 03:43 PM
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Sorry to jack, but how much bigger does the frame need to be all around for a 120" DIY screen frame??
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post #983 of 989 Unread Yesterday, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
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Sorry to jack,
The nerve!

Quote:
but how much bigger does the frame need to be all around for a 120" DIY screen frame??




It depends upon how you want to frame the screen's image...or if you even want to.

If you build using 1x3 Poplar on edge, and want a 120" diagonal image, it would be best to make the exterior edges of the Poplar frame 109" x 63"

Using 3.25" Mdf Base wrapped in Black Velvet, 1.25" of that Base Trim would be protruding past the inside edge of the Frame and onto the screen surface
By placing additional 3/4' Block sections of Poplar at the Corners and at intervals around the outside of the Frame, you add sufficient support (1-1/2")for nailing the Trim in place.

Using 2" Tape? Same dimensions, just place tape equally around the Frame.
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post #984 of 989 Unread Yesterday, 06:47 PM
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Although a bright pattern on carpet directly below a screen is usually a No-No, I'm jammin' on the Flames effect radiating from the bottom of the screen.

Image quality looks great!

Try using some long 2x3 Blocks coming off the rear Wall behind specific areas of the Screen to push it out level

The JVC has H&V Lens shift, so if unless the placement of the PJ is almost outside the limits of the H&V parameters, then the only real issue you might have is the Mount itself. A good Mount hase total adjustment as far as Pitch / Yaw, and Camber. What are you using? Your so close, we don't want to leave you to your own devices on this point when we can gladly insert ourselves. (re: stick our noses in )
Thanks! I think its supposed to be flower petals, ha ha. I have a Chief mount system, so it does allow me some adjustment. I just got a lateral bracket that has allowed me to shift it a couple inches and pretty much in the middle of my room. I appreciate all of the help and knowledge from you guys, so I will gladly take it. Just worried that I won't be able to get it as straight as I want. It kind of was a problem with my last screen as well, and now I'm thinking my false wall is a tad off measurement wise. I'll see what I can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
If you're sure your screen is square enough (make sure opposite sides, then diagonally measure the same).
You might consider dangling a string or something along the screen's sides to make sure it's level with the world (if the wall and ceiling aren't terribly straight..might as well use gravity).
Using your projector's lens-shift, lower the image a bit below the screen's top and adjust the projector mount "barrel roll style" until the picture line and screen top are parallel.
Zoom the image in smaller than the screen, and see how the bottom edge and screen's bottom line up.
Aim the projector mount (like turning someone's head left/right) to make the bottom of the image and the screen parallel. You turn the projector gradually toward the higher side (assuming you've zoomed smaller than the screen).
Double check that the head-turning didn't mess with your barrel-roll...if your top line isn't quite straight, you'll have to roll it straight and touch-up turn to get the bottom again.

Use lens-shift left/right to center your image.
Adjust the mount (like nodding someone's head) to make the sides parallel with the screen-sides. If the top is pinched inwar like a pyramid, tilt it up; if the bottom is pinched inward like a funnel, tilt it down.

Double check the top (barrel roll), then bottom (head turn, then sides (head nod).

Then center the image up/down and left/right using your lens-shift, and zoom out till you almost perfectly fill the screen..and double check again if you want.

The hanging strings at the screen's two sides should let you make sure the screen is both hanging straight as well as not doing a weird uneven curl.

Hopefully that's somewhat make-sense-ing...
Thanks for this detailed information! It is helpful and I will try to see what I can do.

Appreciate all of the advice from you guys.
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post #985 of 989 Unread Today, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poster View Post
I have a Chief mount system, so it does allow me some adjustment. I just got a lateral bracket that has allowed me to shift it a couple inches and pretty much in the middle of my room. Just worried that I won't be able to get it as straight as I want. It kind of was a problem with my last screen as well, and now I'm thinking my false wall is a tad off measurement wise. I'll see what I can do.
If your wall is pitched out / in on one corner, that could be the issue at hand.

With a Chief, sometimes that can be corrected by loosening one front or rear Thumbscrew.
Adjusting so that only one corner of a lens pitches in/out is something most mounts...even the vaunted Chief do not do. Strangely though, a few of the older style, cheapest mounts, those that hang on a single Rod / Gimbal Ball do...but keeping them in position for the duration is almost impossible.

If you use a Speed Level and know the Mount is true front to back / side to side, then the best thing to do is to try shimming your screen out by finding the corner that is out of square and lacing some folded Card Board behind that corner. Hopefully the wall is not out of camber across to diagonal corners.

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MM, thanks for the information. I did have a breakthrough based on Ftoast's information. From bottom to top, my sides were slightly inching in like a pyramid. I'm thankful he laid it out in that way as it may have been difficult to describe. What I found was that my projector had to be tilted upward a bit. Once I did that, the sides evened out very well. Thanks, Ftoast!!

The only issue I have left is along the top of the screen from left to right. Here it kind of pyramids again and then slightly rises again as it reaches the right side of the screen. When I measure from the bottom to the top of the screen moving left to right, it seems pretty square at 62 " vertical. When I measure from the floor to the top of the screen, it rises almost 1/4 of an inch in spots towards the middle, so I think that is my problem. I carefully attached flat, a piece of the 1 x 3 poplar to the top horizontal piece of the frame and have attached my french cleat to this to mount to hang on my false wall. I tried my best to keep it level, and it seemed pretty level when checking, but am wondering if it is a matter of the cleat mount needing to rise a tad in the middle and towards the right hand side? Oddly though, the bottom of the screen from left to right seems pretty level, so I'm not sure what the issue may be.

Hopefully I am making sense, and maybe I should take a picture tonight to show the issue.
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Even Trapezoidal corners on Top / Bottom / either Side always denote the need to either Tilt up / down or Twist sideways. This is of course very elementary, and among the easiest of things to recognize and correct. Usually.

When only one corner is affected, either the PJ/Lens is tilted down or up toward only one corner.

As I said, and had you done so, and used a Level and found the PJ to be level, then the fault would have lain on the Screen's positioning.

If the screen's sides and top bottom edges did appear straight to a PJ's image coming from a Leveled Projector (Front to Back & Side to Side) then that would indicate that the Screen itself is flat against the wall.

Many times, dependent upon the method used to hang a Screen, the bottom of the Screen pitches inward the depth of whatever material was used as a Hanging method. That is what makes "Blocking"
the bottom of a screen often a very important step...and if you get the PJ Squared and Plumb, it's projected image it the bellweather to use to judge as to if the screen is mounted "Square and Plumb"

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #988 of 989 Unread Today, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
If by that your referring to the Border Trim that goes around the edges of the screen, either Black Velvet Wrapped Mdf Base, or 2" -3" Black Velor Felt Tape from here:
http://www.carlofet.com/black-felt-t...l#.VWTIdEb1hi0

The Tape is actually very good at what it is supposed to do...much better than others that came before it.

If your talking about the wall area off the screen, then many are using Black Spandex...others Black Velvet. One simply gets the job done, and also allows for Acoustic Transparency if the R & L Mains are to reside behind. The latter just looks better as a cover. Both cost virtually the same per sq. yard if the Velvet is purchased here:
http://www.syfabrics.com/View.aspx/P...Velvet/681/264
The syfabrics material is great, that's what I'm currently using. However, if you don't mind spending a bit more for a much easier solution, I'd recommend something else that MM has mentioned here: Protostar flocking material. http://www.fpi-protostar.com/hitack.htm I used this on my first screen border and it was SO much easier to roll out on the floor and just stick the frame piece to it; no messing with wrapping and stapling. If I were to build another frame I'd spring for the Protostar even at the added cost. Just my 2 cents
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post #989 of 989 Unread Today, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techtre2003 View Post
The syfabrics material is great, that's what I'm currently using. However, if you don't mind spending a bit more for a much easier solution, I'd recommend something else that MM has mentioned here: Protostar flocking material. http://www.fpi-protostar.com/hitack.htm I used this on my first screen border and it was SO much easier to roll out on the floor and just stick the frame piece to it; no messing with wrapping and stapling. If I were to build another frame I'd spring for the Protostar even at the added cost. Just my 2 cents

Hey...I was always a fan of ProtoStar.

But having used it...and also the Carl's tape, I can speak with authority that in no way is the ProtoStar worth the price vs size. Also, the ProtoStar seemed to lack the long term "stickum" of the Carls tape...also, if you try to move the ProtoStar tape even a wee bit once applied, you ruin it because it will stretch out of shape.
http://www.carlofet.com/projector-sc...l#.VWZCy0b1hi0
Now of course the final blow to ProtoStar....Carl's Tape comes in both 2" - 3" & 4" Widths x 60' ..... all of 'em equally for $39.95

ProtoStar? 1 5/8" x 250' $38.00

1-5/8" is too narrow for most applications save suedo-Zero Edge screens with a bare minimum amount of Trim.

ProtoStar is still the place to go for Drop ceiling Blackout Tiles though: http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flockboard.htm
(.....Scroll to bottom of the list...)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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