110" DIY Spandex AT Screen - Page 37 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1081 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
So this is not projected but an image painted on a translucent plastic layer on top of a mirror?
No...Light Fusion is a advanced Screen application that uses a 1/8" thin Plastic Rear Surface Mirror. The topmost surface receives paint...initially the original MississippiMud, and later RS-MM and then the darker Silver Fire / Black Flame. With all those paints being translucent by design and application (spraying only), yet still highly reflective, a percentage of the projected light was absorbed, and collected by the Mirror. The incoming light was attenuated initially via that absorption, then further attenuated via the mirror's reflection. It then "bounced" back to be reintroduced (Light Fusion don't'cha know...) to the image, creating a Plasma-like back-lit image, and since the returning light was attenuated, it also subtly improved contrast and the depth of the image.

Oh...you can be certain it had it's naysayers. Anything that can garner such attention is bound to have 'em...especially among non-DIY'ers who owned expensive screens and firmly believed no DIY screen could ever be worthy. But it had far more advocates as end users, and in it's heyday (2004) it became the first DIY screen app to receive a world wide acceptance and following.

Some did in fact claim it simply had to produce a double image, but end users never reported such. Other's would state the returning light could have no real effect whatsoever, but again, end users clearly stated otherwise.

What with the strongly opposing Camps, and some of the viscous opinions presented by a relative few, it was the best of times...and the worst of times for DIY Screens.

For quite some time it was widely adjudged to be the epitome of how "advanced" DIY Screens could be. And only the inability to continue getting very large sheets of 1/8" Plastic Mirror made it become less requested. 4x8 sheets (98" Diagonal).

It still holds all it's original promise when combined with dark translucent metallic-infused paint, if one can accept the imposed size limitation.

Wow...other than addressing the similarity to the dual layer Spandex application (Cloth Fusion anyone? ) the above is OT for this thread, so let's have any further discussion elsewhere or via PM.
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post #1082 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 06:42 AM
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I see. Maybe the problem with fabric are the tiny areas where you can actually see through the weave vs. the uniformly dense surface of paint on the rear surface boards. In any case the effect is visible to me. Probably also depends on viewing distance.

Use white or gray over black spandex, problem solved.

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post #1083 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
With the BenQ and a 135" 16:9 screen, the choice above will give you the sharpest image and the deepest blacks while also providing the Whitest whites.

...
your explanations require a cup of coffee sometimes - really intense

white and black it is, thanks to all who answered.

FYI - thanks to all those who answered my concerns about screen size - I've decided to go with a 144" wide by 60-ish" tall 2.35 : 1 screen and then just refocus down to 110" wide for 16:9 content. I'll have to refocus manually until I can save up enough for a PJ with lens memory but I figure that's a once a week exercise where 90% of the time its in 16:9 and the once a week that the whole family sits down to watch a movie I can blow it back up to 144".

Those who have followed my build/plan (no actual building has happened yet, lol) at all know that I am constrained by ceiling height and massive HVAC ducts that really cut down on my available screen real estate.

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post #1084 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 11:42 AM
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Looking for advice, screen 130" width, JVC X7000, projector distance 19ft, full light control.
White over white or white over black?
Marco
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post #1085 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airliner View Post
Looking for advice, screen 130" width, JVC X7000, projector distance 19ft, full light control.
White over white or white over black?
Marco
Try white over black and measure. A later change in fabric will set you back only 30 bucks.

Markus

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post #1086 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
your explanations require a cup of coffee sometimes - really intense

white and black it is, thanks to all who answered.

FYI - thanks to all those who answered my concerns about screen size - I've decided to go with a 144" wide by 60-ish" tall 2.35 : 1 screen and then just refocus down to 110" wide for 16:9 content. I'll have to refocus manually until I can save up enough for a PJ with lens memory but I figure that's a once a week exercise where 90% of the time its in 16:9 and the once a week that the whole family sits down to watch a movie I can blow it back up to 144".
.
Wow...
With that projector and at that size screen you are really pushing the absolute limits as far as the reflective ability of the spandex
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post #1087 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 01:49 PM
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My screen is 62" by 111" (127" diagonal). I consider this max. size. Spandex comes in max width of 60" and probably shouldn't be stretched more than 10%.

By the way, it's pretty easy to staple the fabric onto a wodden frame without the assistance of a second person helping when first cutting the fabric to the correct size. Put the two layers of Spandex on the floor and the frame on top of it. Then use the following mounting pattern which will uniformly stretch the fabric over the frame:

Code:
---1---
|     |
---2---

-------
3     4
-------

5------
|     |
------6

------7
|     |
8------
Add more mounting points always on opposite sides. Does that make sense?

Markus

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post #1088 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 03:44 PM
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So black as a backer, eh? I all but gave up on the idea of FP in my condo after playing with GoW spandex didn't yield the results I was after. Precisely, I wasn't satisfied with the washed out, low contrast picture I was getting during the day. I actually have 3yds of black milliskin unopened. It might be time to revisit this project.

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post #1089 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 06:44 PM
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My screen is 62" by 111" (127" diagonal). I consider this max. size. Spandex comes in max width of 60" and probably shouldn't be stretched more than 10%.
4-Way Spandex (80-20) as used on the Top Layer can easily be stretched out 6"-8" each direction without opening the Weave
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post #1090 of 1103 Unread 02-01-2016, 11:55 PM
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4-Way Spandex (80-20) as used on the Top Layer can easily be stretched out 6"-8" each direction without opening the Weave
Which is about the stated 10% Better to calculate in % when the screen size is unknown.

Markus

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post #1091 of 1103 Unread 02-02-2016, 04:11 AM
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Wow...
With that projector and at that size screen you are really pushing the absolute limits as far as the reflective ability of the spandex
Think of it this way. If it doesn't work or if I don't like it, it's way easier to downsize than to go the other way.
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post #1092 of 1103 Unread 02-05-2016, 03:51 PM
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Finally read the whole thread. Even read other people say that when they finally read the whole thread. ha...


Of course I get confused right at the end. White over silver the whole way through until 2016 when suddenly people are saying it causes blurriness and black is the new gray... Is the blurriness talked about in other threads? Is this a consensus, or just a couple people experiencing it?


I know that blurriness can be caused with single layer on one side of frame, and another layer on the other side of the frame... but back to back layers...? Could this caused by a slight separation of the layers due to differences in tautness?
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post #1093 of 1103 Unread 02-05-2016, 03:59 PM
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Finally read the whole thread. Even read other people say that when they finally read the whole thread. ha...


Of course I get confused right at the end. White over silver the whole way through until 2016 when suddenly people are saying it causes blurriness and black is the new gray... Is the blurriness talked about in other threads? Is this a consensus, or just a couple people experiencing it?


I know that blurriness can be caused with single layer on one side of frame, and another layer on the other side of the frame... but back to back layers...? Could this caused by a slight separation of the layers due to differences in tautness?
I'm about 1 year in with 140" screen with BenQ W1070. No issues on my end. I clean my projector lens every other month and adjust the sharpness after every cleaning. I love white over silver.

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post #1094 of 1103 Unread 02-05-2016, 07:18 PM
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I'm about 1 year in with 140" screen with BenQ W1070. No issues on my end. I clean my projector lens every other month and adjust the sharpness after every cleaning. I love white over silver.

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Wow 140 with the W1070? And you dont find it dim or anything?
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post #1095 of 1103 Unread 02-05-2016, 07:53 PM
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Wow 140 with the W1070? And you dont find it dim or anything?
Not at all. It's about 12' from the screen. Bluray and TV look great.

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post #1096 of 1103 Unread Yesterday, 06:17 AM
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Not at all. It's about 12' from the screen. Bluray and TV look great.

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wait what - you must be at the absolute shortest distance you can go. (which makes sense if you want to amp up the brightness as much as possible)

I'm about 18' feet back and I can't make a smaller image than about 150" but I have a very very "hacked together" set up.

also, 140" diag? so roughly 10' wide? I'm going for 12' wide - no real expectation that it will work

how far do you sit from the screen? I'm a strict believer in sitting no further away (front row anyways) than the width of the screen. Which right now I'm 10' back from an 11' wide screen (oops)

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post #1097 of 1103 Unread Yesterday, 07:26 AM
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Think of it this way. If it doesn't work or if I don't like it, it's way easier to downsize than to go the other way.
Well, while I can't disagree with that mind think, the one thing that I do find error in is that when somebody or yourself know that such a course of action is virtually assured to result in less than desirable results, going ahead anyway is akin to sayin'... "I don't mind wasting my time."

They only go so far as to say that because the construction of a frame BB acceptable for a 150 inch + spandex screen is no small undertaking, nor a trifling expense, and with optimal performance in mind, I just have a hard time justifying both the additional time and expense because I know myself what the end result will be.

What I cannot know its just how far down the road into frustration that any given do-it-yourselfer is willing to travel, because for some the frustration index has a very high limit, and they're going to do what they have decided are going to do no matter what else is said. And that's okay under those circumstances because every once in a great while somebody proves that the conventional line of reasoning doesn't apply and that can be a very good thing for everybody involved.

Now while the projector you're using is well noted by many people to be a lot brighter than most expect it to be, you are out at the extreme limits of its performance envelope on a screen who's game factor is below what is normally considered acceptable levels. You already seem to have a pretty good inclination of that so at this conjecture the decision to go down the path you've chosen and the acceptability of whatever in results that you achieve, all falls squarely on your own shoulders.

It's a brave new world out there for those willing to take such risks, so have at it! And to hell with whatever anybody else says!

Of course I say that last remark with all due respect to everybody else.

All that being said, since you seem to want to sit as close as you do it would seem that you could go with a smaller screen and just sit close enough to make it seem like it was a larger screen. But if I read into your post correctly the real issue is where you have to place your projector, and with the particular Projector chosen that could be a real problem.

But perhaps not one without a solution. Recently my partner PB_Maxx has completed a sprayed spandex screen using Black Flame X1I. That application it's definitely going to have a higher gain than unsprayed spandex, and any increase in gain is going to work to your advantage so that is something for you to consider if the additional cost of the paint and the need to spray it on can be accommodated.

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post #1098 of 1103 Unread Yesterday, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
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wait what - you must be at the absolute shortest distance you can go. (which makes sense if you want to amp up the brightness as much as possible)

I'm about 18' feet back and I can't make a smaller image than about 150" but I have a very very "hacked together" set up.

also, 140" diag? so roughly 10' wide? I'm going for 12' wide - no real expectation that it will work

how far do you sit from the screen? I'm a strict believer in sitting no further away (front row anyways) than the width of the screen. Which right now I'm 10' back from an 11' wide screen (oops)
I sit right under the projector. I have a low ceiling in the basement so it was the most optimal place. Here's a picture that will give you an idea of the brightness, or not.




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The picture is really bright and sharp, and as you can see the kids really love it. DIY was the best decision ever.

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post #1100 of 1103 Unread Yesterday, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
wait what - you must be at the absolute shortest distance you can go. (which makes sense if you want to amp up the brightness as much as possible)

I'm about 18' feet back and I can't make a smaller image than about 150" but I have a very very "hacked together" set up.

also, 140" diag? so roughly 10' wide? I'm going for 12' wide - no real expectation that it will work

how far do you sit from the screen? I'm a strict believer in sitting no further away (front row anyways) than the width of the screen. Which right now I'm 10' back from an 11' wide screen (oops)
Spandex has a fixed width of 60" so I'm not sure how you want to make such a big screen? You would need to stretch it too much. That's not good for picture quality and you need to build a frame that won't bend.

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post #1101 of 1103 Unread Yesterday, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
wait what - you must be at the absolute shortest distance you can go. (which makes sense if you want to amp up the brightness as much as possible)

I'm about 18' feet back and I can't make a smaller image than about 150" but I have a very very "hacked together" set up.

also, 140" diag? so roughly 10' wide? I'm going for 12' wide - no real expectation that it will work

how far do you sit from the screen? I'm a strict believer in sitting no further away (front row anyways) than the width of the screen. Which right now I'm 10' back from an 11' wide screen (oops)
Spandex has a fixed width of 60" so I'm not sure how you want to make such a big screen? You would need to stretch it too much. That's not good for picture quality and you need to build a frame that won't bend.
2.35 : 1.

Will mask down to 110" wide 16x9. The height of the screen is only 62". It's my expectation the material will stretch to fit that.

How much did you stretch yours? LOVE the results.

To the other guy who said I was setting myself up to fail, 1) I really really like my movies BIG. 2) its $200 and it's free to make it smaller. Not so to make it bigger.
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post #1102 of 1103 Unread Yesterday, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
2.35 : 1.

Will mask down to 110" wide 16x9. The height of the screen is only 62". It's my expectation the material will stretch to fit that.
Yep that works. My screen is 62" by 111" (127" diagonal).
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Yep that works. My screen is 62" by 111" (127" diagonal).
Thanks!

now as soon as I con convince my wife to turn off her Sims 2 game, we can get on this

PS : for whatever reason I am not getting email quote notifications from this thread - I get them from every other thread but not here.
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