110" DIY Spandex AT Screen - Page 6 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 1009 Old 12-17-2012, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I usually like to watch movies with my 6 recessed lights on my left wall about 75% dimmed. The lights are power by a Lutron switch and control with my Harmony One remote.

My eyes see zero impact to overall image brightness or clarity on a white screen with those lights on.
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post #152 of 1009 Old 12-17-2012, 04:13 PM
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smokarz,

By your own description of your room it's indicative that you must have realized room reflection issues ARE NOT overblown and there is a need to address them because your own Theater was / is made to mitigate such. If not, and the room's colors were never changed, then in reality you are not in a position to judge how "overblown" room reflection issues are because obviously, your room doesn't "reflect" you even ever had such issues. Ditto for Can lights set to the side and run at -75% dimmed. Used in such a manner, obviously they should not / would not / do not present a problem,

Why not turn those lights up to 100% and take us a few screenies of Underworld? Then do it again ay 75% dimmed. I promise you no one will criticize the effort or question the validity of the shots. Oh yeah....use a couple of Test Patterns too...of course. View and consier the results, then pause to reconsider you statement.

All that really needs to be said, and should have only been said is that rooms where at least some effort has been made to mitigate reflections, and where sensible placement / use of lighting is employed might very well accept the use of a white screen,,,,,with the condition that the PJ is fully capable of providing the level of Black rendition and contrast that is needed for one's personal satisfaction.

Your statement was essentially a blanket dismissal of an issue 90% of every other DIY'er needs to be made aware of.


tank01

The use of 6 Spots at 25' from the screen to illuminate the Pool Table is infinitely wise. I advocate spots to almost every person I address Theater design issues with, and in your situation the proper use shows how little effect they have when properly configured.


So.........both situations above allow for the use of a white screen "BECAUSE" they address common concerns and needs.....whether each circumstance's solution was intentionally done or just a happy coincidence, neither situation speaks out against the need for the right screen for a given situation.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #153 of 1009 Old 12-17-2012, 07:09 PM
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tank01
The use of 6 Spots at 25' from the screen to illuminate the Pool Table is infinitely wise. I advocate spots to almost every person I address Theater design issues with, and in your situation the proper use shows how little effect they have when properly configured.
So.........both situations above allow for the use of a white screen "BECAUSE" they address common concerns and needs.....whether each circumstance's solution was intentionally done or just a happy coincidence, neither situation speaks out against the need for the right screen for a given situation.[/quote]

This setup was intentionally decorated, and the main concern was to darken up the environment , and to try and help out the projector as much as possible. The main concern was to have a nice decor while allowing the projector to perform anyway.

I wouldn't be recommending a white screen to anybody who is not willing to put in the time and effort to somber up environment and to make it work. But if you have done some of these requirements a white is amazing.

.

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post #154 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 01:23 AM
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Unless I am blind, I cannot find any post that explains the best way to stretch the dual spandex screen into the tracks. In the BOC threads, there is the "canvas stretch" where you make a diamond pattern and continue working your way from the center of each side to the edges while alternating sides. Are people doing the same with the spandex and spline in some way? I thought I had read somewhere where one fellow attached one whole long side then stretched it to the opposite long end. What was not answered is how the side-to-side was stretched.

Sorry if this has been answered but I just could not find it.

I have watched just a few non-calibrated movies on my 8350 projected onto a temporary black out cloth screen in living room mode and LOVE IT. Anyone else running an 8350 with spandex? If so, what spandex combo did you do and what color mode did you run? I have a light-controlled room (no exterior light at all) but have a white ceiling and white wall cabinet unit behind the screen.
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post #155 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcastle View Post

Unless I am blind, I cannot find any post that explains the best way to stretch the dual spandex screen into the tracks. In the BOC threads, there is the "canvas stretch" where you make a diamond pattern and continue working your way from the center of each side to the edges while alternating sides. Are people doing the same with the spandex and spline in some way? I thought I had read somewhere where one fellow attached one whole long side then stretched it to the opposite long end. What was not answered is how the side-to-side was stretched.
Sorry if this has been answered but I just could not find it.
I have watched just a few non-calibrated movies on my 8350 projected onto a temporary black out cloth screen in living room mode and LOVE IT. Anyone else running an 8350 with spandex? If so, what spandex combo did you do and what color mode did you run? I have a light-controlled room (no exterior light at all) but have a white ceiling and white wall cabinet unit behind the screen.

Interesting question! I'm thinking the same and haven't found any suggestions how to best stretch the spandex. So i'm eager ears/eyes to people who have done this.
I was thinking of attaching one side first, but just as you point out, how do you deal with the side to side stretch after that? confused.gif
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post #156 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 09:35 AM
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is this moleskin silver the same as the one at spandexworld
http://www.fabricsworldusa.com/site/products_details.php?product_id=1488&cat_id=33
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post #157 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 09:37 AM
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As I begun I realized this issue as well. Once you start you realize it's not that big of a deal really because the stretching isn't quite as much as you'd think to where you might end up with bunched up corners or weird angles or something. I basically attached one long side by lining it up so that the edge was straight and there was no need for cutting. As I got to the corner I began pulling it out towards the short edge too. This was sufficient to stretch both the long edge and then start stretching the material towards the short edge too so that when I started the short edge the material was already headed that direction... if that makes sense.

Jer

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post #158 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjoboh View Post

is this moleskin silver the same as the one at spandexworld
http://www.fabricsworldusa.com/site/products_details.php?product_id=1488&cat_id=33

Hard to say since it doesn't say what surface it has, is it shiny, matte or rough? But the amount of spandex in it is the same ...

And it looks like the Matte Moleskin Silver is out of stock, once again biggrin.gif, at Spandex World ...
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post #159 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyhelling View Post

As I begun I realized this issue as well. Once you start you realize it's not that big of a deal really because the stretching isn't quite as much as you'd think to where you might end up with bunched up corners or weird angles or something. I basically attached one long side by lining it up so that the edge was straight and there was no need for cutting. As I got to the corner I began pulling it out towards the short edge too. This was sufficient to stretch both the long edge and then start stretching the material towards the short edge too so that when I started the short edge the material was already headed that direction... if that makes sense.

Ha ha! I guess i'll be reading this several times before i get it biggrin.gif
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post #160 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyhelling View Post

As I begun I realized this issue as well. Once you start you realize it's not that big of a deal really because the stretching isn't quite as much as you'd think to where you might end up with bunched up corners or weird angles or something. I basically attached one long side by lining it up so that the edge was straight and there was no need for cutting. As I got to the corner I began pulling it out towards the short edge too. This was sufficient to stretch both the long edge and then start stretching the material towards the short edge too so that when I started the short edge the material was already headed that direction... if that makes sense.

So did you start putting in the spline for the the first short edge at the corner or in the middle? And did you do both short edges before the opposite long edge? Sorry, just trying to "wrap" my brain around it. biggrin.gif
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post #161 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcastle View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyhelling View Post

As I begun I realized this issue as well. Once you start you realize it's not that big of a deal really because the stretching isn't quite as much as you'd think to where you might end up with bunched up corners or weird angles or something. I basically attached one long side by lining it up so that the edge was straight and there was no need for cutting. As I got to the corner I began pulling it out towards the short edge too. This was sufficient to stretch both the long edge and then start stretching the material towards the short edge too so that when I started the short edge the material was already headed that direction... if that makes sense.

So did you start putting in the spline for the the first short edge at the corner or in the middle? And did you do both short edges before the opposite long edge? Sorry, just trying to "wrap" my brain around it. biggrin.gif

Four edges and four separate pieces of spline. I didn't attempt to continue any of them around the corners. So four edges and four separate pieces of spline independent of each other. So I did long edge, long edge and then short edge and short edge.

Jer

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post #162 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcastle View Post

Unless I am blind, I cannot find any post that explains the best way to stretch the dual spandex screen into the tracks. In the BOC threads, there is the "canvas stretch" where you make a diamond pattern and continue working your way from the center of each side to the edges while alternating sides. Are people doing the same with the spandex and spline in some way? I thought I had read somewhere where one fellow attached one whole long side then stretched it to the opposite long end. What was not answered is how the side-to-side was stretched.
Sorry if this has been answered but I just could not find it.
I have watched just a few non-calibrated movies on my 8350 projected onto a temporary black out cloth screen in living room mode and LOVE IT. Anyone else running an 8350 with spandex? If so, what spandex combo did you do and what color mode did you run? I have a light-controlled room (no exterior light at all) but have a white ceiling and white wall cabinet unit behind the screen.



I don't know what the exact method for stretching spandex is, but here's what I did (and you need a few extra hands (I had some friends and brothers over - i offered them free beers lol).

1) start on the longest sides (top and bottom of screen). i place a 1x2 8ft long stud. rolled it up, and i had two guys on each side stretching it at the same time. this makes sure both my top and bottom of screen are evenly stretched. then we rolled it into the groove and apply spline.

2) now we work on the shorter sides (left and right of screen). do the exact same thing. place 1x2 on spandex, rolled it and stretch both sides at same time to make sure the spandex is evenly stretch. then rolled spandex into grooves, but once you get near the corners you want to stretch the corners a little bit. then apply spline.

Again, you need a few extra hands to do this.
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post #163 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

is there specific pattern that should be used for the test? or any solid white shot will do?
thank you


I used a 100% white pattern from the AVSHD 709 disc right here on AVS forum.

The full view, not the window pattern.
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post #164 of 1009 Old 12-18-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyhelling View Post

Four edges and four separate pieces of spline. I didn't attempt to continue any of them around the corners. So four edges and four separate pieces of spline independent of each other. So I did long edge, long edge and then short edge and short edge.

Awesome, thanks!
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post #165 of 1009 Old 12-22-2012, 07:23 PM
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Has the AT properties of spandex been measured before? It does seem strange that they've been used for so many months. And I agree on the measurements of brightness...knowing that lumens drop would've been nice.

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post #166 of 1009 Old 12-22-2012, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Has the AT properties of spandex been measured before? It does seem strange that they've been used for so many months. And I agree on the measurements of brightness...knowing that lumens drop would've been nice.


I believe someone have measured it, and did not notice a change in SQ. However, no graphs were ever posted.

I am in the process of building some new speakers, hopefully that will be the time when I will measure it and post some graphs.
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post #167 of 1009 Old 12-23-2012, 07:12 AM
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I've measure. I plan to start a thread, but for now just look here.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=127.msg1551#new

Second graph in reply #8. Note that an unsmoothed gated response using a calibrated mic.
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post #168 of 1009 Old 12-23-2012, 07:57 AM
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Wow, awesome. So, two layers of Spandex, stretched to whatever extent you stretched it (maybe we should use the term Stretch Ratio. As in SR=1.2 for a 20% increase in area, or SRh=1.1 SRv=1.2 for stretching that's unequal in each axis?) filters the response like speaker grill cloth?

Thanks!

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post #169 of 1009 Old 12-23-2012, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I've measure. I plan to start a thread, but for now just look here.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=127.msg1551#new
Second graph in reply #8. Note that an unsmoothed gated response using a calibrated mic.


Awesome Tux. When did you build your screen? I thought you were too busy tearing down your wall? tongue.gif

Thanks for posting, that is pretty impressive. Seeing the graphs from you, I don't think I need to do any more measurements.
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post #170 of 1009 Old 12-23-2012, 08:46 AM
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Good point. I stretched it probably 20% horizontally and 10% vertically. That's also a Joanne's white under a Fabricland grey. The Fabricland stuff seems heavier to me. Like it might block more sound than the Joanne's. I'll be doing more testing too. And a dedicated thread that presents the info better.

If anyone has a scrap of spandex world I can test that. I don't need much to do the test right. Just a scrap in an envelope.
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post #171 of 1009 Old 12-23-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I've measure. I plan to start a thread, but for now just look here.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=127.msg1551#new
Second graph in reply #8. Note that an unsmoothed gated response using a calibrated mic.

I think it looks very close to a single layer of moleskin from spandexworld i measured against SHO-10




red - naked compression driver
blue - spanedex lightly stretched on a frame approx. 1" from the baffle
green - spandex tightly draped around the cabinet.

Edit: the response is gated and unsmoothed. Even though I tried to maintain position of the microphone and its disitance from the speaker for each measurement, there must be some discrepancies. I think that may explain why green curve has higher amplitude than the naked driver at some frequencies. But I think in general one can safely say that the more spanedex is stretched the less attenuated the FR is .
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post #172 of 1009 Old 12-25-2012, 07:54 PM
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I just stumbled onto this thread, and the whole idea of spandex as an AT screen. I LOVE IT! Cheap and offers up options for gray/white screen types. I would also like to thank Tux for measuring the effects the spandex has on the speakers when used as an AT screen. That made me a believer!!! Now it's time to start convincing the wife another HT remodel needs to happen. smile.gif
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post #173 of 1009 Old 12-26-2012, 07:11 AM
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No problem deewan. Keep your eyes peeled for a thread dedicated to the subject. And zheka also got similar results, sober have some consistency. I've also got some spandex world stuff coming. We'll be able to really see how good this stuff is soon.
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post #174 of 1009 Old 12-26-2012, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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How do you like the PQ of the spandex Tux? What screen did you have before?
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post #175 of 1009 Old 12-26-2012, 09:11 AM
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I'm loving it. Previous was a different PJ, different setup, different house, etc. so not really able to compare. But it was a painted DIY. I really like this an being AT is really awesome. Helps that I'm absolutely in love with my in wall speakers. The best sound I've ever had. Eliminating the box and baffle issues helped a lot more than I thought possible.
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post #176 of 1009 Old 12-26-2012, 12:18 PM
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Tough for me. Epson 8500, but I'd still want the better blacks with a gray/silver but when bulb starts to age I wouldn't want to lose too much brightness.

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post #177 of 1009 Old 12-26-2012, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Tough for me. Epson 8500, but I'd still want the better blacks with a gray/silver but when bulb starts to age I wouldn't want to lose too much brightness.


That's why I did white over gray, for the extra brightness. Even white/gray is pretty dark, you're not getting a white screen at all.
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post #178 of 1009 Old 12-30-2012, 01:43 PM
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One tip for mounting the spandex: First loosely mount it to the frame and then look closely for imperfections in the fabric. My original top layer had stains on it from packing/shipping. My replacement top layer had a visible horizontal line in the fabric (looked like a dye issue) that was visible in bright scenes. Taking the fabric off and flipping it around so the other side faced out eliminated the issues.
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post #179 of 1009 Old 01-03-2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Yes, it is white over gray. I chose white since I like to run the Epson 8100 in Natural mode. It calibrate easier in that mode. Also, I prefer a brighter picture.

Thanks for the pics,has that been re-calibrated since you went from the white painted to the white Spandex? Seems like a lot of light loss.
I was actually hoping for a better showing on the whites with the white on the front, instead of the silver that most folks are doing, as that was what I was planning.

Done the white>grey>mix>different mix> DaLite HP, and it's gonna be hard going back to a greyish screen.....seriously re-thinking this AT screen now, and I ordered the Moleskin Silver and White earlier today...... well at least it didn't cost me a fortune, I can rip it down in 5 minutes if I hate it, but the problem is I really wanted an AT screen in this new theater build I am getting ready for.....I guess I could build the screen wall with space in the back of it for speakers and subs, and if I hate the screen I can put my DaLite back up, but then I will have built the false wall for nothing but wasted space and subs...........maybe I can put a sleeping bag back there and a small fridge and toliet for when I'm arguing with the old lady..

Thanks

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post #180 of 1009 Old 01-03-2013, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

That's why I did white over gray, for the extra brightness. Even white/gray is pretty dark, you're not getting a white screen at all.

And that blows.......are the Seymours and others whiter than this fabric?

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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