Moleskin Matte Silver vs Metallic Matte Silver Spandex Build - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I ended up going for spandex over BOC due to reviews in comparison to BOC.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

I am yet to see anybody who preferred spandex over BOC for the picture quality.
Update: I may be factually incorrect about it. Do you like the PQ of spandex screens better, MM?

From what I've seen posted here, I feel the SM Spandex shows great promise.

BOC unpainted is only 0.85 gain. It's pretty much nothing but a plain white, attenuative surface. Noting that....for some it does indeed serve a purpose, and has found favor with literally thousands in the past.

I'm certain no one has made any direct comparisons between BOC and SM Spandex.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just referring to the moleskin as the reference to BOC. The SM is a whole new bag of worms.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Broadway View Post

I was just referring to the moleskin as the reference to BOC. The SM is a whole new bag of worms.

.....crawl in....the worms crawl out.......


I hope you meant to say that the Bag of worms is what will help you catch "The Big One".

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Old 11-15-2012, 03:45 PM
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I had a thought today, and I'll put it to the test this weekend when I build my screen. What about the SM Matte backwards. Projecting onto the white, non-coated side, with the Silver Matte Side as the back side. Just wondering... I'll be posting some pics this weekend I have a feeling.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Good idea. I think the white spandex is not matte in sheen though. I am ay work right now so cant confirm. I wonder how much the stretch of the spandex impacts pq. As in just draped vs stretched.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Douglas View Post

I had a thought today, and I'll put it to the test this weekend when I build my screen. What about the SM Matte backwards. Projecting onto the white, non-coated side, with the Silver Matte Side as the back side. Just wondering... I'll be posting some pics this weekend I have a feeling.

A Semi-Translucent White paint over Silver Metallic(SM) is a well known and accepted application. Most famously known as "SM-MM" (Silver Metallic-MississippiMud ) And such is also the basis for "Light Fusion" (White over a Mirror / Mylar) Thin White PVC Sheeting with a SM back coat.....ditto. And you bet, Cloth over Mylar has also been tried. Not "Spandex Cloth" though.

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Originally Posted by Duke Broadway View Post

Good idea. I think the white spandex is not matte in sheen though. I am ay work right now so cant confirm. I wonder how much the stretch of the spandex impacts pq. As in just draped vs stretched.

The surface has to be completely Flat...so merely "Draping" isn't a'gonna cut it. However, Spandex with minimal Stretch would obviously have a tighter weave surface than when stretch to 75%-80%, and the closer the weave, the denser the surface, the more reflective the surface.

Not sure where the idea of having to stretch Spandex so tight that it might allow too much light through came from. It's been accepted that using just enough stretch to effect a smooth, evenly laid out surface is most ideal, and the aural difference between a tightly stretched "Open Weave" and one only stretched "just enough" is so minimal it's not even worth a thought.

A Silver Metallic Spandex backing under White could...and would give a noticeable Contrast boost...as far as delivering a uptick in black Levels and color depth....but only if the two surfaces were "touching" and the SM did not have an obtrusive amount of "Sheen".

Shooting onto a correct pure SM Spandex would do the same only 10 fold. And If that increase is all good.....that would be a incredibly good thing.

However in the past it's been more a case of taming SM by putting a coating over it than using SM in a "too pure" state itself. Which is a shame because it's obvious to anyone that disregarding sheen'ing and hot spotting, Silver Metallic makes a screen "PoP" like nothing else.....color are almost livid...and Blacks "obsidian like". Perhaps most sadly....Pure SM surfaces are best used in the dark....not with ambient light ...because the Screen uses ALL light it receives equally...all light.

I would always be excited about the prospect of finding any "Silver" surface that can do a great job. So far the only real "keeper" is S-I-L-V-E-R, a "sprayed on paint" application.

White is White is White....and that's alright....as long as the room is as dark as night. Let ambient light enter into the fight, and from your contrast it will take a big bite.

Don't worry....I'm through.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to understand this a little better. So would in theory, SM behind MS(moleskin silver) would keep characteristics of the moleskin deeper colors with a uptick in brightness because of the SM backer? Would MS behind SM improve blacks? I am interested in what Scott will be doing this weekend. I wont have time to tear down and try other things for a little while.

PS....i like the rhyme...keep it going.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:55 AM
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I was speaking of SM behind WS. Properly done, one could expect an improvement of Black levels from the WS, but no increase in gain

Ditto using SM behind MS....but probably also with a slight drop in gain since using WS behind MS is the preferred app for increasing gain.


I don't mind making Rhyme when posting answers all the time. It's often fun to make a pun, but sometimes it makes people run.....

......one cannot always be so glib, without the risk of getting ribbed.

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Old 11-16-2012, 10:19 AM
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WS?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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WS = white spandex
SM = silver metallic
MS = moleskin silver


I see that spandex world has a milliskin silver which looks lighter in color compared to moleskin. Maybe thats the ticket.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:29 PM
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Thanks! I don't think the milliskin is as heavy though.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:58 PM
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Well I got my screen built today and decided to go with mounting the Silver Metallic over black. i think the picture is really good, but I see what you mean about the wrinkles Duke. But, at least with mine, I don't think they are wrinkles, it is where the silver coating isn't completely covering the underlying spandex. Here are a couple pics from my phone. The "wrinkles" aren't visible in these, at least I can't see them. I'll probably be ordering the Moleskin Matte Silver tomorrow since I don't see a way to fix the problem with the metallic. I messed with the picture settings a bit, but it is pretty much the out of the box settings on my new Pro 8200.



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Old 11-17-2012, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott,

Was hoping to hear how your build went this weekend. I couldn't see any wrinkles in the pics. I am with you, the wrinkles are the biggest issue. I don't think any amount of stretching or dryer time/ironing will alleviate the issue. I still feel like the metallic is just to bright. Granted the pj is not calibrated to the screen, but there is a lack of detail in Mr. Hammer's suit, the overexposed whites are even more noticeably on the rear of the F1 car. I haven't had time to do anything projector wise.

I am pretty sure I will end up with a moleskin silver screen. I will end up using the metallic as a backer. I am interested in seeing if flipping the metallic over and using the white spandex as the backer. The downside is that the white is not matte in sheen. I wonder if that would be noticeable the non matte sheen vs matte as as the backer behind the moleskin. Paging Mississippi Man.............

Well I don't want to write off Silver Metallic as a suitable spandex option, but the wrinkling aspect of the coating may be its undoing. At least we gave it a shot.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:36 PM
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I'll flip it over tomorrow, just to see what happens. My other thought is to take an iron to it with a sheet in between and see if I can even it out, but I don't have much hope for that. Since this is my first projector and screen, I don't know what the picture should look like. I don't think the whites looked that washed out in person, but I may have been paying too much attention to the wrinkles to notice.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I am right there with you being new to projectors. I recall when i took my pictures, what I was viewing was bright but not as bright as the photo had shown. I think that white on the reverse wont be good for the primary surface. The backer.....maybe??
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:57 AM
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I commend all of you who have taken the effort to give the silver metallic a shot. It's really great to have others willing to experiment. And most assuredly the potential inherent makes it's a worthwhile opportunity.

As "The Duke" said, " The horse ain't dead yet." Quality control issues notwithstanding, I still have a hope that's the application of gentle heat combined with effective stretching will solve the most niggling issues.

I am certain that any white spandex that has a sheen would offer a poor image. That is why I felt that the matte silver metallic held so much promise.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks MM. What are your thoughts on the white spandex with sheen as the backer to the moleskin? When I get a chance i will give the SM some gently heat, and see whar happens.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:36 PM
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Ok, gentle heat isn't the answer. I started off on the lowest setting with an old T-shirt as a heat barrier. It made no difference. I moved up the dial all the way to the wool setting (2nd hottest) trying with or without steam on each level. The only thing I got is a new "wrinkle" where the coating burned off a little at the highest setting I used. Basically, I was trying to heat it up enough for the coating that was there to melt over the tiny gaps. There just isn't enough of a coating for that to work. I'll be using it as a backing to the SM when it arrives.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

if you do not need AT screen there is little benefit in using spandex at all. there are better alternatives imho.




There are a couple reasons Im trying spandex - One my home theater is on the second floor of a bungalow kinda hard to carry a 96in. screen up a flight of stairs with a turn at the top ! I've read all the threads on painting a screen ahhhhh not to sure about doing that " upstairs " with leather furniture etc...in the room , not to mention the fact that I haven't even painted much of anything with rattle cans much less a compressor !
One other reason is this is my HOBBY building a screen gives me something to do figure there's no harm in experimenting that's why I plan on giving the matte silver over white thrifty board a shot
can always go back to blackout cloth if need be . Been using that for over five yrs and no ones complained yet . wink.gif

Tom O.

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Old 11-18-2012, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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You mean backing to MS aka the Moleskin Silver I think.
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