What is a cheap rigid board that I can buy at Home Depot to glue my Parkland to? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a 5x10 sheet of Parkland and my goal is a 122" diagonal screen.

I tried searching but the search didn't seem to give me what I'm looking for. Ideally I would use a 5x10 sheet of something or another but it now seems like this isn't something Home Depot can stock or even special order w/o large quantity requirements. I've searched and read a bunch of threads but none seem to give me the answers that I'm looking for. Maybe the right thread is out there but I'm just not finding it so if you simply post a link with answers to my query I'm fine with that too.

So it seems I will need to cut & piece something together which I was hoping to avoid. I'm thinking of buying two sheets of 4x8 something or another and then cut it so that I have a couple inch border around my Parkland, attach directly to studs on wall with screws and then use velcro to attach border later. If I go this route I was thinking that I would build a frame on the back to join the two using 2x4's to surround the back and then maybe one more across the center running left to right. I don't know though.

Just wondering what others are doing for the mounting panel for these screens. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Jer

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post #2 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 01:45 PM
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This is a blast from the past. Every once in a while someone needs to build a backer board to support / flatten out a thin material Some parkland sheets were a full 3/8" thick and were self supporting as far a laying them against a vertical surface. The 1/8" Parkland is a floopy bit of business. biggrin.gif

Backer Boards 101

So you have a "old" piece of the original Parkland Plastics sheeting? Or the newer variety?

Treating the Parkland as you would a Mirror used for Light Fusion, there is a "Best' way to do this and at the same time improve the Parkland's Contrast, It's gotta get glued....and that is tricky as the Parkland is actually Translucent. And adhesive used must at once have low volatility, and be troweled out very flat.

And to do it cheaply, it ( Backer Board) will have to be at least two pieces, more likely more. I will return this PM with line drawings and actual images of 122" screens on Backer Boards.....w/2.5" overage on all sides, and who after being hung onto walls via screws into the 2.5' perimeter, received wrapped Black Velvet Trim over MDF Base that both framed the screen and covered up the Screw heads.

I would continue on............

But.......Patience is a virtue, and the Builder + Client I most go see now have very little virtue today.

I'll get back on this tonight.

Hey....where at in Colorado? I have some 122" DIY Screens in Denver that you might like to go see.

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post #3 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

This is a blast from the past. Every once in a while someone needs to build a backer board to support / flatten out a thin material Some parkland sheets were a full 3/8" thick and were self supporting as far a laying them against a vertical surface. The 1/8" Parkland is a floopy bit of business. biggrin.gif

Backer Boards 101

So you have a "old" piece of the original Parkland Plastics sheeting? Or the newer variety?

Treating the Parkland as you would a Mirror used for Light Fusion, there is a "Best' way to do this and at the same time improve the Parkland's Contrast, It's gotta get glued....and that is tricky as the Parkland is actually Translucent. And adhesive used must at once have low volatility, and be troweled out very flat.

And to do it cheaply, it ( Backer Board) will have to be at least two pieces, more likely more. I will return this PM with line drawings and actual images of 122" screens on Backer Boards.....w/2.5" overage on all sides, and who after being hung onto walls via screws into the 2.5' perimeter, received wrapped Black Velvet Trim over MDF Base that both framed the screen and covered up the Screw heads.

I would continue on............

But.......Patience is a virtue, and the Builder + Client I most go see now have very little virtue today.

I'll get back on this tonight.

Hey....where at in Colorado? I have some 122" DIY Screens in Denver that you might like to go see.

Thanks for the post.

As you can tell by my join date I'm all about blasts from the past. cool.gif

I've been out of the loop for a while now so I'm not aware of a newer panel but did hear they tried making their panels more aimed at the HT crowd but then upped their prices and then pulled/changed their line all together when the community rejected their inflated prices. I'm going to assume that this is indeed the older and less rigid variety based on how long I've had it and how flimsy it is. I've been enjoying my Mitsubishi HD1000u projecting onto a $15 100" screen made out of Doable board for probably 6 years or so now. I wanted a larger screen many years ago and bought this panel from another member for a pretty decent price and it's sat rolled up in it's shipping box for years waiting for me to get the motivation to put it up. I recently stepped up to a 1080p projector (Pro8200 that arrived today) and now have motivation to go ahead and get everything up. I sit relatively close to my screen and there was always some concern that a 122" screen being projected onto by a 720p projector could be a bit of a shock as far as PQ. Well, now I've got a decent 1080p projector so no more excuses. I laid it out to flatten out a couple of days ago and last night I attempted to mount it using the same mirror mounts that I curently use for my (more rigid) Doable board. Needless to say it was sagging away from the wall before I even could attempt to attach morror brackets and it was immediately evident that this wasn't going to work as planned. So now I've got to take a few more steps to complete my project. After searching I've found that the Liquid Nails FRP 310 is the recommended adhesive by Parkland and those who used it reported good results. I then went to the pro desk to see about ordering a single 5x10 sheet and after several calls was told that I was SOL. I was given the number of a Sears Trostel who could acquire a sheet for me but the cost would be $150+ for MDF. I decided that 2 sheets was going to be the new method and the problem became how to join in a mannar that would promote a level screen. I could cut two 4x8's into a slightly larger 5x10 and then frame them on the back side with 2x4's and then one running right down the middle seem to keep things solid. Seems to me that this would add rigidity at the figurative cost of weight, additional work and of the literal cost of money. I also had hoped to have this all up and running tonight for our family coming intot own for turkey day tomorrow who would w/o a doubt want to watch movies tomorrow night.

I'm in the Fort Collins/Loveland area.

Jer

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post #4 of 16 Old 11-22-2012, 07:23 AM
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Last night would have been pushing it a bit.

I'm concerned about about your using any adhesive that is not a white color. Unless your painting the surface, the darker Tan adhesive can...and will show through. I know, having been an advocate of Parkland "away back yonder"The Parkland you have is the thinner variety, and any surface irregularity from adhesive not spread thinly enough will translate into a Bump or Ridge.

Constructing a framework of perimeter timber might seem a solution, but unless you use 1x6, the edges will not offer enough support to prevent bowing inward past the leading edge.

I suggest that you assemble a grid of 1x6s onto the wall,(...with at least three spaced between each side...) check carefully to see if they are all laying flat, then use a re-positional spray Contact adhesive to attach the Parkland. (...sand and wipe clean the 1x6s before applying the adhesive...)

So....this seems to be a "I gotta do it quickly" thing....and that leaves a lot of potential issues to crop up. With your decision to finally employ the Parkland, I only hope that you don;t make anything happen to render it worthless because your under time restraints.

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post #5 of 16 Old 11-22-2012, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Last night would have been pushing it a bit.

I'm concerned about about your using any adhesive that is not a white color. Unless your painting the surface, the darker Tan adhesive can...and will show through. I know, having been an advocate of Parkland "away back yonder"The Parkland you have is the thinner variety, and any surface irregularity from adhesive not spread thinly enough will translate into a Bump or Ridge.

Constructing a framework of perimeter timber might seem a solution, but unless you use 1x6, the edges will not offer enough support to prevent bowing inward past the leading edge.

I suggest that you assemble a grid of 1x6s onto the wall,(...with at least three spaced between each side...) check carefully to see if they are all laying flat, then use a re-positional spray Contact adhesive to attach the Parkland. (...sand and wipe clean the 1x6s before applying the adhesive...)

So....this seems to be a "I gotta do it quickly" thing....and that leaves a lot of potential issues to crop up. With your decision to finally employ the Parkland, I only hope that you don;t make anything happen to render it worthless because your under time restraints.

I may have mispoke because I meant I was in a hurry the other day when I wanted the screen for today to show off the new PJ to the family that was in from out-of-town. That didn't work out obviously since they're here. I got the PJ installed yesterday so it will be a better picture on that 100" screen but I was hoping to really knock their socks off with a 122" screen. Now I need to go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate what I'm going to do. I wasn't aware this was a transparent one as everything I read made it sound like this was the one to do. I figured with a brownish colored substrate like masonite or OSB or something and the fact that I have a the proper size trowel and a laminate roller everything would be pretty uniform. Maybe I need to re-re-evalute my approach. I'm certainly open to suggestions. Sounds like Wilsonart is the newer option for a DIY screen? I would paint but for now the basement is unfinished so a rigid stand-alone solution is ideal.

Jer

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post #6 of 16 Old 11-22-2012, 07:22 PM
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No...now that you have time, constructing a suitable Backer is indeed possible. Yes, spreading any adhesive must be a job done with care, but entirely do-able.

Wilson Art Laminate has been around for a ling time, and while applicable for many uses and instances, still has the need for a substantial Backer Board or Frame.

Brick Layed thin MDF Panels (2 "layers" )are the way to go. First you construct the Backer Board, let it dry thoroughly, then apply the Parkland.

Here's a diagram:

110inchDiagonalCompositeHardboardBackerforMirror-01.jpg

For your122" (60" x 107") you simply need to adjust the sizes of the pieces.

2 - 64" x 42"
1 - 64" x 29"

Overlay (center) a 4' x 8' sheet of 1/8" MDF across the 3 pieced together sheets and glue together (...use both the rougher sides for best adherence...)
Overlay the outside Strips, increasing their width and length proportionately.

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post #7 of 16 Old 11-22-2012, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So if I'm reading that properly you end up with two seams in the middle running up and down with just a 3" border around the back side holding everything together? That doesn't seem like it would be very sturdy. I mean, maybe it is but it just doesn't seem like it would be.

What's the cheapest approach for a 122" screen starting from scratch? I just want to make sure this is still my best option because while I got the laminate for cheap the materials to put everything together is quickly adding up. $22 for the adhesive and I will likely need another gallon or so to adhere everything together. I will need the backer boards which sounds like at least 4 boards at about $20 each. Then I'll need more strips of wood for the boarder and black fleece and yadda yadda yadda. Is there something that I could get that would make life easier and maybe save some money?

I tell you what, if I could find a 5x10 version of that 4x8 Doable I currently have even if it was more than twice as much as I paid for the 4x8 board I would be the happiest camper on the face of the earth. Talk about simple. Anything like that exist these days?

Jer

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post #8 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually I should take yet another step backwards & say that I have a ViewSonic Pro8200 that I'm using in a light controlled room. That should be one of the more important parts of the equation. As of right now that bulb is ridiculously bright since I just got it & last night during movie night with the family I had to turn the brightness all the way down to 10 from 50 to get the blacks to not look grey. I know this will settle in over time but I should select a screen that will compliment this projector.

I know I said I wanted a stand alone solution but I guess it would be just as simple to nail a couple sheets of drywall up & mud/tape then paint as anything I'm currently talking about doing. Maybe a little harder to get exactly smooth though. I feel like something with some grey in it may be better for this screen. I also noticed a LOT of light spill that splashed out all the way to the edges of my wall with this projector. Once I finish this basement I can see that I'm going to have a lot to do to get things ideal.

Maybe I need to not build a theater around a screen I've had in a box or years & a projector I just got a good deal on as this ultimately seems least likely to yield a good picture.

Jer

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post #9 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 06:05 AM
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Well actually, you have it pretty much wrong.

Look at the illustration on the left. In the center you see a 4' x 8' sheet. That sheet is overlaying the three sections, binding them together. Each sheet cost $12.00. Using the Trimmings you make all the side inserts. They don't need to stretch the entire perimeter....but they should overlap all the sectional joints by as much as possible.

And absolutely....if you can make a decision to just spend for another 5' x 10' sheet of something, then there you have your answer.

Not too terribly far from where you live, in Denver there is a company called :

Piedmont Plastics.
Denver-Littleton, CO 80120
303-794-9823

...................and there they sell Sintra / Komotex in 5' x 10' x 6mm sheets for between $96.00 and $110.00.

6mm won't roll up....but it will bend. And Piedmont can cut it down for you to the size you want. (60" x 107")

At 6mm, all you'd need to do is either hang it with adhesive directly onto the wall (...use a Silicone Adhesive Caulk and it can be pulled down if ever it needs to be...)
...............or build a Frame from the 1x5 as earlier suggested and hang it via the French Cleat method.

Unfortunately, unless you paint onto a wall, there is no your escaping spending some money. DIY can be inexpensive....even downright cheap. But free? No. I know you realize that...and we all feel the same way about saving all we can. But when your trying to create a large screen, there certain things to be considered mandatory. Your time with Do-able has basically spoiled you rotten as to the "Hang and Shoot" syndrome. tongue.gif And don't you already know full well how so many others have not had that opportunity given Do-Able's limited distribution.

The Backer Board as illustrated was made so that two 1/8" thick layers of MDF Hardboard could be sectional-ized and assembled into one reasonable lightweight and rigid sheet to support flimsy material such as 3mm laminates, 3mm plastic sheeting, even 1/8" acrylic Mirrors. 1/2" MDF Boards at 5' x 10' can be had...but they too cost more than a little chump change, and are TERRIBLY heavy.

Sintra then is your best bet...not because it's free or even cheap, but because it's readily available, sized as you want it to be, and will be easier by a mile to work with. Why....you could even just use it for the Screen itself of your will ing to paint a high performance coating onto it, and then you'd realize a screen surface that would be almost an order pf magnitude better than any "Hang and Shoot" option out there.

Lastly, you could get Sintra in it's 3 mm version (cheaper by half - ) and laminate the Parkland to it. Then you'd have 1/4" thick material. But it would still need support to be able to "hang". Unless....., you cut back on the size of your screen just enough to allow for a 2" wide area outside the Screen area that would allow you to screw the Sintra / Parkland combo tp the wall with screws set into the 2" border area. Trim is then applied over that area to cover the Screws.

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post #10 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 06:10 AM
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Sheesh......now your relating a whole 'nother set of variables. rolleyes.gif

Dude.....Just get the Sintra....paint it a simple N7.5 Gray, Trim it well with Mdf Base wrapped in Velvet. The 8200 will be glad to use it's brightness and the Gray surface to both attenuate light and deepen Blacks. Hand the Sintra with Screws and cover the Screws with the Trim.

I'm going to go make me a Turkey Omelet. confused.gif

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post #11 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well actually, you have it pretty much wrong.

Look at the illustration on the left. In the center you see a 4' x 8' sheet. That sheet is overlaying the three sections, binding them together. Each sheet cost $12.00. Using the Trimmings you make all the side inserts. They don't need to stretch the entire perimeter....but they should overlap all the sectional joints by as much as possible.

And absolutely....if you can make a decision to just spend for another 5' x 10' sheet of something, then there you have your answer.

Not too terribly far from where you live, in Denver there is a company called :

Piedmont Plastics.
Denver-Littleton, CO 80120
303-794-9823

...................and there they sell Sintra / Komotex in 5' x 10' x 6mm sheets for between $96.00 and $110.00.

6mm won't roll up....but it will bend. And Piedmont can cut it down for you to the size you want. (60" x 107")

At 6mm, all you'd need to do is either hang it with adhesive directly onto the wall (...use a Silicone Adhesive Caulk and it can be pulled down if ever it needs to be...)
...............or build a Frame from the 1x5 as earlier suggested and hang it via the French Cleat method.

Unfortunately, unless you paint onto a wall, there is no your escaping spending some money. DIY can be inexpensive....even downright cheap. But free? No. I know you realize that...and we all feel the same way about saving all we can. But when your trying to create a large screen, there certain things to be considered mandatory. Your time with Do-able has basically spoiled you rotten as to the "Hang and Shoot" syndrome. tongue.gif And don't you already know full well how so many others have not had that opportunity given Do-Able's limited distribution.

The Backer Board as illustrated was made so that two 1/8" thick layers of MDF Hardboard could be sectional-ized and assembled into one reasonable lightweight and rigid sheet to support flimsy material such as 3mm laminates, 3mm plastic sheeting, even 1/8" acrylic Mirrors. 1/2" MDF Boards at 5' x 10' can be had...but they too cost more than a little chump change, and are TERRIBLY heavy.

Sintra then is your best bet...not because it's free or even cheap, but because it's readily available, sized as you want it to be, and will be easier by a mile to work with. Why....you could even just use it for the Screen itself of your will ing to paint a high performance coating onto it, and then you'd realize a screen surface that would be almost an order pf magnitude better than any "Hang and Shoot" option out there.

Lastly, you could get Sintra in it's 3 mm version (cheaper by half - ) and laminate the Parkland to it. Then you'd have 1/4" thick material. But it would still need support to be able to "hang". Unless....., you cut back on the size of your screen just enough to allow for a 2" wide area outside the Screen area that would allow you to screw the Sintra / Parkland combo tp the wall with screws set into the 2" border area. Trim is then applied over that area to cover the Screws.

I wasn't even aware of this option down in Denver. Do they make sheets larger than 5x10? If they make them slightly larger I could still get my 122" screen (or perhaps even larger since I settled on 122" based on the limitation of my 5x10 sheet of poly) and then use the border to mount it. I mean, if all they make is a 5x10 sheet I guess that sacrificing 2" height (I assume 1" top & bottom would leave me enough room to run some screws through it) would yield me a 118" screen and wouldn't be the end of the world. It sure would simplify mounting as throwing a felt or fleece border around the edges would be simple.

Edit: Found their website and it looks like they make a 2M x 10 sheet which may be perfect but I'm still trying to figure out how I would get even a 5x10 sheet home in the bed of my Tacoma.

When you say it will bend but not roll up... how much 'bend' are we talking about? I assume not too much if you can mount it right to a wall w/o out anything else and have it not sag or bend, right? If so, this may be my best bet yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Sheesh......now your relating a whole 'nother set of variables. rolleyes.gif

Dude.....Just get the Sintra....paint it a simple N7.5 Gray, Trim it well with Mdf Base wrapped in Velvet. The 8200 will be glad to use it's brightness and the Gray surface to both attenuate light and deepen Blacks. Hand the Sintra with Screws and cover the Screws with the Trim.

I'm going to go make me a Turkey Omelet. confused.gif

I'm not trying to confuse things and but if I'm not using this polywall then I'm kind of back to square one and it seems that taking the actual projector that I'm now using into account would be wise since the gain between the two is quite important. Just buying/building a screen based on price doesn't match up your projector to your screen very well. I do like the idea of being able to shell out just under $100 and being done with it though if that well work for my projector. I need to do more research to see what the gain is and if that will work for my needs. I realize I can paint the surface but I'm not sure that paying $100 PLUS then painting it the best use of my time/budget if I don't have to.

lol... turkey omelet. Never thought of that one!

Jer

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post #12 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 06:57 AM
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Painting is essential if you want the 8200 to perform like a Epson 6020 or Panny 8000 and really give you satisfying Black levels without your having to reduce color and white dynamics via attenuation of actual lumen ouput.

They actually do make Sintra in 12'ers, but I personally have never come across any stock where I've looked.

6mm Sintra can bend around a Corner (carefully) without breaking or creasing. if laid against a Flat surface and screwed around the perimeter it will usually lay flat....but applying flattened daubs of Adhesive Caulk can get that concern out of the way.

Laminate is just too thin, and will require a substantial Framework...and a good job on one will cost enough to matter, and through the whole process of receiving / cutting...and mointing there is a decided risk of breakage. The WA-DW also has "Sheen" issues with brighter PJs so that effectually dooms that....unless you get it solely because you can get it in a 12' length and you plan to paint onto it.

Your other option would be a Millskin Silver Spandex Screen, with the Spandex stretched across a lightweight Frame. The Silver Spandex will be JUST under 1.0 gain, and it's gray hue will make the 8200 look as good as possible. In reality, most recent DIY'ers on here will relate it's not at all a difficult or expensive build. In fact, recently so many have been delving into Spandex on this Forum, you'd think this was the DIY School of Modern Dance or sumthin'. biggrin.gif

Hey.....everything I personally do is centered around PERFECTLY matching up a PJ to a Screen to the Room. What I cannot do is force DIY'ers to follow suit....for a myriad of varied reasons....and not all of then center around cost as much as they do around the DIY'ers "ability" or willingness to take things to a level where they get more than they ever expected.

No matter what else can be said, ain't no way no how a 122" High Contrast / 1.0+ Gain Mfg "Fixed" Screen will cost anywhere near as little to make, nor be as ideally suited to a particular job, as a well made DIY Screen of the same design.

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post #13 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Painting is essential if you want the 8200 to perform like a Epson 6020 or Panny 8000 and really give you satisfying Black levels without your having to reduce color and white dynamics via attenuation of actual lumen ouput.

They actually do make Sintra in 12'ers, but I personally have never come across any stock where I've looked.

6mm Sintra can bend around a Corner (carefully) without breaking or creasing. if laid against a Flat surface and screwed around the perimeter it will usually lay flat....but applying flattened daubs of Adhesive Caulk can get that concern out of the way.

Laminate is just too thin, and will require a substantial Framework...and a good job on one will cost enough to matter, and through the whole process of receiving / cutting...and mointing there is a decided risk of breakage. The WA-DW also has "Sheen" issues with brighter PJs so that effectually dooms that....unless you get it solely because you can get it in a 12' length and you plan to paint onto it.

Your other option would be a Millskin Silver Spandex Screen, with the Spandex stretched across a lightweight Frame. The Silver Spandex will be JUST under 1.0 gain, and it's gray hue will make the 8200 look as good as possible. In reality, most recent DIY'ers on here will relate it's not at all a difficult or expensive build. In fact, recently so many have been delving into Spandex on this Forum, you'd think this was the DIY School of Modern Dance or sumthin'. biggrin.gif

Hey.....everything I personally do is centered around PERFECTLY matching up a PJ to a Screen to the Room. What I cannot do is force DIY'ers to follow suit....for a myriad of varied reasons....and not all of then center around cost as much as they do around the DIY'ers "ability" or willingness to take things to a level where they get more than they ever expected.

No matter what else can be said, ain't no way no how a 122" High Contrast / 1.0+ Gain Mfg "Fixed" Screen will cost anywhere near as little to make, nor be as ideally suited to a particular job, as a well made DIY Screen of the same design.

I did see plenty of mention of spandex in my searching but never really paid too much attention to it since I was focused on making this Polywall work. Now if what I'm reading what you're saying then it seems that the Spandex option may just be the best possible solution for me. How much does this cost and what is the best/cheapest place to source it? Sounds like I may want to get a white to wrap the frame in then the silver so that the projector doesn't light through and show the frame? Any tips or pointers as I consider this option would be great but I like the prospect of this DIY option unless it's cost prohibitive. *fingers crossed hoping spandex is affordable*

Jer

'Build a man a fire and he stays warm for one night. Set a man afire and he stays warm for the rest of his life.'
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post #14 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 09:21 AM
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Going BF Shopping.

Read the Threads....it's all there.

PS.

It ain't very expensive.

Silver Millskin or Moleskin Over White.

www.spandexworld.com

Consume....Digest.....Make the decision and we'll take getting you detailed info from that point forward.

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post #15 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Going BF Shopping.

Read the Threads....it's all there.

PS.

It ain't very expensive.

Silver Millskin or Moleskin Over White.

www.spandexworld.com

Consume....Digest.....Make the decision and we'll take getting you detailed info from that point forward.

Yeah, I found that website in my searching but I'm not sure how much I would need or of what type. I also see that it comes in 58 or 60" widths (?) so I'm not sure how one would stretch it over a frame and get 122" so I assume it's either available in wider widths or people just stay under 120" for their screen. Maybe it's very stretchy. Who knows, guess I will do more research and see what I come up with.

Jer

'Build a man a fire and he stays warm for one night. Set a man afire and he stays warm for the rest of his life.'
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-23-2012, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW, since my plan to use my Polywall sheet has since changed into building a spandex screen I've started a new thread here geared specifically towards this new plan. Thanks for your help so far MM.

Jer

'Build a man a fire and he stays warm for one night. Set a man afire and he stays warm for the rest of his life.'
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