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post #1 of 26 Old 12-04-2012, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys i just finished reading an article on projector central about painting the perfect screen for less then 100 dollars. Well i tried it out by painting a 2 foot by 4 foot piece of hardboard and placing it over my Dalite high contrast cinema vision .08 gain. All i can say is wow!! Amazing this paint blows away my Dalite screen it is easily 1.1 gain it's much brighter the colors are so much nicer and it has allot more pop to the image. Contrast is excellent just as was stated by projector central. Buy yourself the best projector you can afford and paint yourself this screen for 20.00 . There are 80 positive reviews at projector central about this paint and as of today mine is there also.

In the next few weeks i'll be painting myself a 2:35 120"wide screen. i'll post the before and after pictures.

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post #2 of 26 Old 12-04-2012, 10:18 PM
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post #3 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 12:17 AM
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Did you paint the wall for your screen or what?
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post #4 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Did you paint the wall for your screen or what?

No not yet, i just did this test yesterday. I've felt like upgrading my screen for a little while now but i haven't found the time to do it yet. The problem for me is that as you can see from my profile picture , a 120" 2:35 doesn't fit into my octagonal wall. i need to blow out another wall, cut out my floating floors, redo the o gees, but i have the upgrading bug and it all seems worth it.

I forgot to mention that the sample test that i did took up 1/3 of my screen there's no mistaking the results, this paint blows away my Dalite screen.

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post #5 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 04:58 AM
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Is it possible for u to post a pic of that test u did? with the hardboard in front of the DaLite?

Regards
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post #6 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 06:45 AM
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That was exactly what I did earlier this year.

I started with the SW Unique gray paint. Found out it was a little too dark for my PJ/taste.

I moved onto the SW Extra White paint and it was awesome. Bright, colorfuly, clear.

If I didn't needed the AT properties of the Spandex, I would still be running the SW Extra White screen.

Most times, a can of quality, neutral (RGB) paint is all you need to have an excellent screen.

No need to mess yourself with spraying, mixing 10 different paint elements into a bucket, blah...blah...blah..

Hey, if it's good enough for a guy that review projectors for a living. I am sure it's good enough for the average DIYers.
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post #7 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RedBull1985 View Post

Is it possible for u to post a pic of that test u did? with the hardboard in front of the DaLite?
Regards

Ok i"ll try figuring out how to put up the pictures later tonight.

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post #8 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

No need to mess yourself with spraying, mixing 10 different paint elements into a bucket, blah...blah...blah..
Hey, if it's good enough for a guy that review projectors for a living. I am sure it's good enough for the average DIYers.



............if all a person needs and can settle for is a white screen. And don't kid yourself or anyone else...very few can, because these days the End User is far less likely to have a Dedicated Room with ideally suited colors, lighting, etc. Depending upon a PJ's Brightness and Contrast to produce an excellent image only takes one as far as far as the Room Reflections / Lighting level allows. Now when every Digital PJ out there comes with 5 mil :1 Contrast and 3000 Lumens, White surfaces will of course be that much more effective, and it's well known, the Blacker your Blacks and the more Vibrant your Colors, the less Room / Lighting will effect them. That's the premise behind using a correctly matched "Gray Surface" to the PJ's performance and the Room's circumstances.

That said, if one is to use a "White Paint", then it's always good to choose the best overall performer. To that end the SW Extra White fills that need. But just add a little Tint and what might one expect.?

So it's not a case of ...blah.....blah.....blah, but always a case of what is best for any singular person's situation. smile.gif That's what the DIY Screen Forum here advocates above all else, and why the Mixes found here are based around being infinitely adjustable.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #9 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RedBull1985 View Post

Is it possible for u to post a pic of that test u did? with the hardboard in front of the DaLite?
Regards
Ok i"ll try figuring out how to put up the pictures later tonight.
[IMG][IMG][IMG]

Hope this works

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post #10 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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The pictures don't do justice to what i am seeing. The picture of the chipmunks is probably the worst the contrast seems off from what i was seeing

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post #11 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 08:20 PM
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Pretty much normal when comparing a higher gain surface to one that is lower. And your Camera is favoring the much larger area of the darker image...so much so that your brighter image is blowing out.

Stand just as far back as you were when you were taking the initial images and try zooming in so you have only a a very thin line of Black framing the top and bottom of the image. That should even out the camera's metering.

I have no doubt you see the difference as you state. Getting it down right in a photo can be a challenge, that's all.

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post #12 of 26 Old 12-05-2012, 10:20 PM
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the colors seem more true on the unpainted sections
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post #13 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Duke Broadway View Post

the colors seem more true on the unpainted sections

There is only one section that has the painted panel. The painted panel is in the middle of the screen. What you see on the right, and the left is the Dalite screen behind.

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post #14 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I"ll try to take a couple more pictures with my iPhone. The biggest difference aren't in the skin tones, they are in the blues of the sky. The green grass on a pga golf course is amazing in the painted panel the color and the detail just seem to be exactly as if you were there. Whites are also so much clearer.

The car that is in that picture, looks grey on the Dalite , but you can see right way that it is actually gold in real life by the middle panel.

The picture of I robot where he is outside shows clearly the sky to look very real in the middle.

I'll try and get a couple more picture up tonight.

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post #15 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tank01 View Post

There is only one section that has the painted panel. The painted panel is in the middle of the screen. What you see on the right, and the left is the Dalite screen behind.

I'm pretty sure Duke realizes that. The deeper color saturation comes from the Dalite screen having less gain, so the colors seem more richer, realistic and film-like.
I explained above why your images almost certainly do not reflect the quality you see in person. It's up to you to try to change that.

The fact is, if your looking for an overwhelming consensus that the SW paint's performance potential is superior to all else, it isn't likely to happen.

Granted, it's good, but consider that the Reviewer on PC wasn't very much acquainted with the available options, went looking for a "simple" choice to make, hit upon a few good (but expensive) representative white paint/s (...but from only one Mfg...) and stopped there.

DIY Screens didn't stop....and continues to go forward.

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post #16 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I pretty sure that in my setup , this will end up being the perfect screen colour . But since i have an extra panel that hasn't been painted i'm willing to paint it in a grey color and compare them side by side.

What would you recommend in a grey pain that's already mixed. I"m looking to keep the gain at about 1.1

Thanks

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post #17 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 12:00 PM
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That won't happen without the addition of at least two other components,

White Pearlesence
Deep Base
The SW-EW can be tinted Veil or Snowfield

Higher performance and specific advantages just are not going to come from a OTS paint. "Off The Shelf"

But such a mix is very easy to make up, so there should be no aversion toward doing so.

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post #18 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the the most economical way to try this out?

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post #19 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tank01 View Post

What is the the most economical way to try this out?

Go to a Home Depot.

Buy 1 empty Gallon Can w / Lid.

Ask for 1 Quart of Behr UPW Pastel Base "Flat".

Purchase this online : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EELN1Y/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&s=hi&psc=1 Price has just dropped to $32.00 per Quart.

Combine the Quart of Behr Pastel Base "Flat" with the Quart of Rustoleum White Pearl in the new empty One Gallon Can.

Go to Sherwin Williams and get 1 Quart of the Extra White in "Flat" tinted to "Veil" Gray.

Add the SW-EW / Veil into the Gallon Can, Tap the Lid down, give it to the SW Paint tech, and have him shake it up for you.


Then, go home and Roll or Spray it onto a White Primed or White Painted surface.

That's it.

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post #20 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the recipe but 100$ just to try a sample board is just a bit too much. Any other well known recipes that a paint retailer can do for me. 1 qt mixed in store will cost me 30 $

Thanks

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post #21 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 01:03 PM
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We went over this many years ago in 1000’s of test photos. Some members here myself included set up test standards and even made still images that had area removed to project pure white and best black into an image. We could then measure an ANSI contrast of sorts within the photo doing an A vs. B comparison. The white area were also used to illuminate a known and calibrated color and grey scale test card and the colors and intensities could then be measured in the photo with a color sampling tool (software) and that eliminated the monitor and our eyes from comparing screen to screen. We also went thru careful steps to have the projector calibration known as you can’t calibrate a projector to two samples at once and that difference had to be taken into account. We then took photos in a manner that disallowed the influence of the digital camera to correct the image based around how the new cams have different ways to center balance an image for example. We also did A, B, C tests where we rotated the samples from side to side and center to remove variability. Because a big factor in what we were seeking was ambient lights influence on the image and some methods that help with that also use angular gain we would do the test at many angles right to left across the screen. We also had established sources of ambient light so we could repeat a known problem light and see how different paints and screen surfaces dealt with it under control.

The forum broke into two schools those looking at scientific approaches to what was going on and those that went by what the eye saw. To complicate matters more everyone has a different room, different projector and a different screen size. Then people were using different throw distances and at different points in bulb life and also different projector heights with keystone adjustments set different. We did a lot of measurements that looked at central warm spots in the image and at what level the eye couldn’t pick up on them.

Keep in mind when watching a split image like the projector can’t be adjusted to both images your eyes can’t either. The pupil adjusts to control the overall light entering the eye and allowing the brain to see the most contrast possible. I forget how many f-stops the eye adjusts I think it’s 22 f. Each f stop doubles from the one before 2, 4, 8, 16, 32,……..22 times. That’s how we can walk around in almost total darkness or bright noon sun.

Google something like “color picker tool” some free ones are on line. You can then take one of your test photos and use the picker tool to see what the RGB value is of any pixel. 0, 0, 0 is pure black and 255, 255, 255 is the full white of the monitor turned on. Someplace in your image go to each side or the split line and do a sample find a bright spot and a dark spot. You will find that the image you see is cranked up on both ends of the spectrum most likely a brighter white but also a brighter black in the same sample. If that’s the case both screens are equal just the one is over calibrated. This is a little over simplified but basically what you need to understand. The next step is the eye and the perception of contrast. When there is some brightness in the image your eyes f-stop closes and set the reference for white and grays on the screen will become inky black. We view an image that is some part real and some part processed by our brain and improved. The projector companies are building better and better machines producing better native contrasts but you have to understand what those numbers mean in terms of lumens also and then factor in the room and ambient light to get the full picture.


Bud

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post #22 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tank01 View Post

Thank you for the recipe but 100$ just to try a sample board is just a bit too much. Any other well known recipes that a paint retailer can do for me. 1 qt mixed in store will cost me 30 $

Thanks


Just go pick up a can of SW Extra White tinted to 'Snowfield'. That paint had been measured to be very neutral (RGB). This way you'll get a quick comparison between white and gray paints.

Forget those mixes that took significant amount of efforts and $$$ to put together, where their improvements are highly debatable.

However, you won't get 1.1 gain with the snowfield.

To get gain over 1, you going to have to add reflective silvery/mettalic elements. But then you run into the risk of hot spotting when your gain is over 1.0 (reflective), and your paint yellowing with the added elements.

I ain't no paint expert, but it's just common physics.
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post #23 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 02:21 PM
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I ain't no paint expert, but it's just common physics.

No...actually you sound like a common mimic. biggrin.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #24 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tank01 View Post

Thank you for the recipe but 100$ just to try a sample board is just a bit too much. Any other well known recipes that a paint retailer can do for me. 1 qt mixed in store will cost me 30 $

Thanks

No...the mix suggested is enough to actually paint as large a screen as you want...or larger.

Not going forward is certainly your choice, but as stated to others, to not do so eliminates any ability to make effective judgements or draw precise conclusions.

Still, you'll be left with "something" that you appreciate and that satisfies you...and no one ever said that was a bad thing.

To Bud and smokars,

Neither of you have done any testing personally. So decisive conclusions by either of you cannot be drawn.
...and Bud....as you are well aware, quite frankly most all those "tests" were done by those with biased overviews and even lousy attitudes and axes to grind. Hence they are subject to be called into question. (...I'd go so far as to state that Todd was the sole exception...and his conclusions were more mixed.)

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #25 of 26 Old 12-06-2012, 02:38 PM
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No...actually you sound like a common mimic. biggrin.gif[/quote



Hmmm...wonder where that comes from.


tongue.gif
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post #26 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 04:49 AM
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No actually I only refer to testing that was done in the most scientific of manner. We had people here that had access to some very expensive color analysts equipment and of course I would follow and discuss their findings rather than buy the equipment and duplicate the testing. Most of this doesn’t require testing all it requires is some basic understanding of physics and an open mind. There were others here that had great experience in the paint manufacturing process and they contributed their part.

The biggest problem was trying to work across the wide platform the internet provides and everyone posting screen shots of whatever concoction they came up with and not having a good way to compare apples to oranges. Likewise the internet was the perfect platform to unite a small bunch of likeminded folks to share what they were doing. I predicted 6 years ago that with the improvement in projectors it wouldn’t be long that flat white wall paint would be all that was needed for a lot of people with fairly good light control. The title to this thread says a lot.

I don’t spend much time posting here anymore but I do like to watch the posts and see what new is coming along.

Now I will go back to being a common mime.


Bud

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