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post #31 of 36 Old 12-15-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

"I would take them as someone's subjective opinion, and use my own judgement when deciding what screen to use."
What do you apply that judgement to if you don't want measurements or recommendations of a different screen?

Once again, a case of taking something almost willfully out of context.

Isn't it obvious the statement alludes to someone taking another's comments as being subjective, while still confirming the right to use his own judgement (...and possibly experience...) to make up his own decision. And if to get there, someone wants to spend $300.00 to $1000.00+ on test equipment, purchase the needed materials and make up a Screen / Samples...all just to prove something they think is important.....let 'em. It's just not to be expected that it be a prerequisite for anyone else to do so, so as to qualify their own efforts as having any merit or relevancy.

As previously stated, it's really (this Thread) all about forcing or requiring others to kowtow to the demands (ie: requests?) that are made by trying one's best to make any refusal to do so appear to be a glaring fault. Read that as being "Intentionally trying to mislead others." because that's exactly what it is...and that's a serious insult against someone's integrity.

So say someone does post some test results that run counter to what is stated. When opposing figures or statements are made, if made both politely and with common cause, no one would complain. They may also agree to disagree, but the atmosphere doesn't become as intentionally charged like it does when such demands or comments are made in a obstinate and oft times insulting and / or dismissive nature. Which in turn tends to generate like responses directed right back at them...on & on and so forth..

It's common enough behavior that when a Thread like this one gets started and people are called out for behaving badly, they start to dance around what it said (...or ignore what "They" have said...) and twist anything / ignore everything that lays bare the truths of their own behavior. In the past it would degenerate into a really nasty division between a few angry individuals and the majority of Members who would simply be pleading for it to end.

And usually, there are 1 or 2 people who do indeed almost comically "spit into the wind" even when given a chance to turn around before something goes "Splat" in their eye. Finally, in the end, when a Thread gets closed and or posts get deleted and members censured for being just plain stubborn and spiteful, the end result is they turn to blaming everyone but themselves. History repeats itself...but in this case, the Forum has learned to deal with such repetitious behavior and will move to intercept it before it gets wholly out of hand.

One can be sure that the reason we all are on this bent is a few people who have been listening to others voice those "old" complaints in a like manner are the driving force behind this current round of repetitious discourse. Even so, it's all coming from a decidedly small and select few, so in the end, it really is only worth as much as can be expected from such things. Fortunately there are checks and balances in place to prevent any wholesale slaughter of the Forum's ability to do what it's intended to do. Help people help themselves.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #32 of 36 Old 12-15-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

What do you apply that judgement to if you don't want measurements or recommendations of a different screen?

Personally, I'm not against measurements at all.
In fact, I have the rather dubious honor of being among the first who introduced the use of actual measurements of DIY screens on this Forum nearly ten years ago. But be it measurements or personal claims, I'd first consider the credibility of the source. This could involve review of prior posts, comparison of screenshots, personal experimentation, or just plain gut reaction to the tone of the recommendations.

What I am against is the battle that often appears in this section
, namely "science" vs "subjective". Honestly, I am in both camps. (If you don't believe it, check my posting history!) I know that measurements are useful for comparison, and I equally know that they are not the end-all for screen satisfaction. Most troubling in this battle is the "prove it" stance taken by many in the "science" camp. This is often stated in the form of "You may have the best screen ever, but if you can't "prove" it with measurements, you're not allowed to post here!" If this is the gist of anyone's post, you can count on me to delete it.

But, you say, what about those members who make wild claims
about their screens, with no "science" to "prove it"? Well, you're free to agree, disagree, try it yourself, or ignore it. Many members here are quite enthusiastic about their screens and methods, and personally I have no issue with that. If I think they're nuts, I feel no obligation to tell them so as long as they're civil. And if I really do believe they're nutty, what good would it do? biggrin.gif

"But they're leading everyone astray, and it's my duty to set things straight so no one will be suckered into their wild claims!" Ah, WRONG! If this is your "goal", bear in mind that all you're really doing is calling them (and those who choose to listen to them) stupid. And again, if you really believe that, why bother?

Granted, it's an easy trap to fall into. I've certainly been guilty of it myself on occasion. "Honey, I can't come to supper now because someone on the internet is WRONG!" Enthusiasm is good, dedication is good, concern for others is good. But demanding "proof" is not good, and is in fact impossible. If you're wound up enough to demand proof, it's unlikely you would accept it anyway.

The bottom line is this:
Treat other members with respect, regardless of how crazy you think they are. Traditionally, everyone in this little corner of the Forum has a crazy element of some sort, it may even be a requirement. But practice diplomacy, agree to disagree, and we'll all get along.

Garry
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post #33 of 36 Old 12-15-2012, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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The bottom line is this: Treat other members with respect, regardless of how crazy you think they are. Traditionally, everyone in this little corner of the Forum has a crazy element of some sort, it may even be a requirement. But practice diplomacy, agree to disagree, and we'll all get along.

Garry,
That's what I was trying to say when I started this thread. Maybe not so eloquently nor forcefully, but with the same intent. I think it's time to close it. Everyone has had a chance to say their piece and then some. For the most part, people don't change. The issues on which you all disagree will continue on and on. What is there to be gained by continued bickering and such? Certainly not the information people seek when they come to this forum, and that is what the forum is about, isn't it? I appreciate the views of both sides and respect their right to express them. I don't appreciate the disrespect that comes with the expression of some of them. That's it, I'm done. Can you all please get back to helping us new guys find our way, in a way that builds the forum, not tears it down?
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post #34 of 36 Old 12-15-2012, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post


The bottom line is this:
Treat other members with respect, regardless of how crazy you think they are. Traditionally, everyone in this little corner of the Forum has a crazy element of some sort, it may even be a requirement. But practice diplomacy, agree to disagree, and we'll all get along.
Garry


Can't disagree with that. And this would be my final say in this thread.
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post #35 of 36 Old 12-16-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post


Personally, I'm not against measurements at all.
In fact, I have the rather dubious honor of being among the first who introduced the use of actual measurements of DIY screens on this Forum nearly ten years ago. But be it measurements or personal claims, I'd first consider the credibility of the source. This could involve review of prior posts, comparison of screenshots, personal experimentation, or just plain gut reaction to the tone of the recommendations.

What I am against is the battle that often appears in this section
, namely "science" vs "subjective". Honestly, I am in both camps. (If you don't believe it, check my posting history!) I know that measurements are useful for comparison, and I equally know that they are not the end-all for screen satisfaction. Most troubling in this battle is the "prove it" stance taken by many in the "science" camp. This is often stated in the form of "You may have the best screen ever, but if you can't "prove" it with measurements, you're not allowed to post here!" If this is the gist of anyone's post, you can count on me to delete it.

But, you say, what about those members who make wild claims
about their screens, with no "science" to "prove it"? Well, you're free to agree, disagree, try it yourself, or ignore it. Many members here are quite enthusiastic about their screens and methods, and personally I have no issue with that. If I think they're nuts, I feel no obligation to tell them so as long as they're civil. And if I really do believe they're nutty, what good would it do? biggrin.gif
"But they're leading everyone astray, and it's my duty to set things straight so no one will be suckered into their wild claims!" Ah, WRONG! If this is your "goal", bear in mind that all you're really doing is calling them (and those who choose to listen to them) stupid. And again, if you really believe that, why bother?
Granted, it's an easy trap to fall into. I've certainly been guilty of it myself on occasion. "Honey, I can't come to supper now because someone on the internet is WRONG!" Enthusiasm is good, dedication is good, concern for others is good. But demanding "proof" is not good, and is in fact impossible. If you're wound up enough to demand proof, it's unlikely you would accept it anyway.

The bottom line is this:
Treat other members with respect, regardless of how crazy you think they are. Traditionally, everyone in this little corner of the Forum has a crazy element of some sort, it may even be a requirement. But practice diplomacy, agree to disagree, and we'll all get along.
Garry

Preach it brother.
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post #36 of 36 Old 12-16-2012, 08:37 AM
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Ok, I think we've all had a chance to chime in.

Thread locked, play nice. smile.gif
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