Off the Shelf Screen Paint - Avoiding Texture/Painting Imperfections/Sparklies! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-11-2012, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

First of all thank you so much for the invaluable info that folks have contributed on these forums. Really helpful!

I own an Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 720 projector (720p and claims to deliver 1600 lumens of Color and White Light Output at 1280X720 resolution). I'd an 92" Optoma Panoview Graywolf screen which I really liked. However after moving to a new house, I decided to upgrade the screen to 120". So I bought an Elite motorized screen (VMAX120UWH). It has a gain of 1.1 and unfortunately, the sparkles on the screen make it almost unwatchable. The sparkles and the screen fabric texture is so visible in the white scenes/background. It looks especially terrible when there is motion against the white background sparkles and texture remain obviously stationary against the moving object. Just completely distracts for the movie .. I'm sure those who have seen such sparkly issues understand.

So then after reading on this forum and a few others, I just finished painting my 120" Black Widow screen with a mix of 1 quart of Lowe's “Valspar Ultra Premium Interior Flat Enamel Finish" and 2x4oz of Blick's "Createx Auto Air Aluminum Fine". I did it on my near perfect drywall in the basement (that has completely light controlled environment). Used 5 coats of Kilz2 primer before doing three coats of BW. Now, I have two problems: my painting in spite of following instructions like using 1/4 nap roller etc. does not seem perfect. So on white scenes, I can see some blotches/patterns. The second problem is the 'dirty blacks" in white scenes which has some grains/specs compared to my Panoview Graywolf screen. This is again distracting.

So after going through three screens and spending days and days on this, I'm back to finding a solution that is a bit forgiving of my amateur painting skills and provides bright whites with uniform/non-distracting background. I'm not too concerned about blacks as I watch the projector in complete darkness .. and actually usually like colorful and less dark movies . This time I'm looking for something off the shelf to paint over the black widow drywall screen .. (something that does not have any particles etc. ). I've narrowed my selection to the following 5:

1. Valspar Ultra Premium in eggshell finish tinted to Glidden 'Snowfield'
2. Lowe's Velspar Interior Flat Enamel (Base 1) Winter Mist
3. Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish that has been tinted to match Glidden Master Palette 'Veil'
4. Behr silver screen in flat
5. Glidden Diamond 450 Velvet Matte

What would you suggest for a situation like mine?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 21 Old 12-11-2012, 09:30 PM
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I don't think off the shelf paint will necessarily solve your problems. I sprayed a screen and test panels with a couple mixes plus off the shelf Behr UPW 1850 and Sherwin Williams ProClassic, and still had the visible grain. I think it's just tiny shadows cast by tiny bumps.

Somehow you need to perfect your technique and application. I was not able to do it myself.
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post #3 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 06:06 AM
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I am living with the BW screen and have some of the issues you have but they are minor in my case. I have a few sparklies and a very slight uneveness if you view it from a certain angle. Luckily that angle is not from any of the seated positions. I notice it because I can't help it. The sparklies seems to have died down a little, not sure if it is dust on the wall, a curing of the paint or what but after 9 months it is rare that I see one and at first I would always see 4-5 from certain angles. It may also be that I just got use to it. The screen gets a lot of compliments and the gray level allows for a very sweet picture with all lights out and for a very watchable image with our back row of can lights on. I rolled the BW directly on new drywall, but have since bought the no name sprayer and anticipate spraying a screen at some point, just waiting to decide on cloth or Sintra or right back on the Wall and also what paint to spray. I suspect you were going to have some issues with BW no matter what you did and and guessing it is a result of technique and the BW. Spraying and new paint might be the ticket to a much better result for you - good luck chosing. I will follow this thread to see how you make out so please post your results.
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post #4 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 06:25 AM
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Like Curttard said,

It's not the paint, but more likely the skills.

Do some test runs, and make sure your surface is as perfectly smooth as possible.
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post #5 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Like Curttard said,
It's not the paint, but more likely the skills.
Do some test runs, and make sure your surface is as perfectly smooth as possible.

It's the paint. RTS already said his wall was nearly perfect, and the supposed primise behind BW is that it is "easy" to roll. yet even so a very many complain about "dirtiness" and "sparkllies", especially when a brighter PJ is employed.

As to your dirty BW image.

The answer lies in increasing the amount of reflective material within the paint, and then proportionately masking those particles. Also, there is a limitation as to how dark a Paint can be and still have enough metallic content to matter before the disparity between the darkest and lightest elements of the surface start to stand out from each other.

If you got started on BW with the intent to take advantage of it's supposed attributes, you have to pursue something similar that does not have any of BW's caveats. There is a way to do so.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #6 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 08:49 AM
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I have the "grainy/dirty" issue with all four paints I tried, two OTS (SW and UPW) and two mixes (RS-MM-LL and C&S Ultra), and I sprayed all four. There's no doubt in my mind it's my application skills.

I'm actually going to try a couple rolled coats on a panel, hopefully this week, to see how it compares.
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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So it seems like my application skills may be contributing to quite a bit to this issue. I mixed the Auto air and Valspar paints extremely well with an egg beater. I primed the wall very well though my application indeed leaves tiny shadows cast by tiny bumps that I can observe from close.

Obviously, I love the concept of BW to get such a nice contrast .. it's the slight dirtiness in the "white" scenes with BW versus Elite Maxwhite. The Elite screen white images just look so "pristine".

I'm buying a paint gun today, so I can possibly try BW one more time after getting the roller painting imperfections issue out of the way. It's going to be the "Wagner Control Spray Plus HVLP" gun. I'll be painting upon the black widow screen after sanding it down to remove paint crests and troughs. (Will be wearing a painter's mask and glasses to avoid aluminum particles getting in the body).

At the same time, I'm tempted to try Valspar Ultra Premium in eggshell finish tinted to Glidden 'Snowfield' instead ... it's ots and might give better whites. Decisions, decisions, decisions and hard work!
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post #8 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I have the "grainy/dirty" issue with all four paints I tried, two OTS (SW and UPW) and two mixes (RS-MM-LL and C&S Ultra), and I sprayed all four. There's no doubt in my mind it's my application skills.
I'm actually going to try a couple rolled coats on a panel, hopefully this week, to see how it compares.

Thanks curttard. This is helpful info. So did you try all these four colors on the dry wall? In that case, I may be wasting my time with the dry wall. Might be better off painting on a panel or something. Any suggestions on obtaining a smooth projector screen substrate? The largest MDF I see at Home Depot yields less than a 100" screen while the Joann BOC maximizes to 106" screen due to its breadth limitation. Wish there was something bigger than that.
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 02:34 PM
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I wouldn't think the drywall itself should cause problems like that. In fact I would think it would be a great surface.

You can get Sintra for large sizes (around $100 for 5' x 10') or there is a guy who sells BOC in any height, I'll try to find the URL for you.
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I wouldn't think the drywall itself should cause problems like that. In fact I would think it would be a great surface.
You can get Sintra for large sizes (around $100 for 5' x 10') or there is a guy who sells BOC in any height, I'll try to find the URL for you.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding Sintra. Maybe first, I'll try the sanded drywall as I reapply the paint. Then explore Sintra or larger length BOC. Your case is a little puzzling though .... you used spray painting 4 times and now you are going to rolling! eek.gif Isn't it kind of reverse? I would think spraying is much better application than rolling versus the other way round ....
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post #11 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 04:14 PM
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Beats me. I just figured I'd try it on a panel for the heck of it to compare the results to the sprayed.
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-14-2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rts View Post

Thanks for the suggestion regarding Sintra. Maybe first, I'll try the sanded drywall as I reapply the paint. Then explore Sintra or larger length BOC. Your case is a little puzzling though .... you used spray painting 4 times and now you are going to rolling! eek.gif Isn't it kind of reverse? I would think spraying is much better application than rolling versus the other way round ....

Dude, if you're good with drywall work then go for it. If not, go for the Sintra. I wasted weeks of my life dealing with drywall. I still had a poor surface. Then I hung a piece of sintra and was done prepping substrate. . And, what if you do a great job with the drywall--and then some nails start backing out? I'm not saying drywall isn't a great substrate, I'm saying I can't do a good job with the stuff. BTW, you can find Sintra as big as 6' x 10'.
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-15-2012, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Dude, if you're good with drywall work then go for it. If not, go for the Sintra. I wasted weeks of my life dealing with drywall. I still had a poor surface. Then I hung a piece of sintra and was done prepping substrate. . And, what if you do a great job with the drywall--and then some nails start backing out? I'm not saying drywall isn't a great substrate, I'm saying I can't do a good job with the stuff. BTW, you can find Sintra as big as 6' x 10'.


But not easily. I recently did a search through my Sintra supplier and there was only 3 locations in the US with such stock.

Drywall Screws or Nails don't back out unless they were put in improperly (no grab into lumber) or too shallow (...didn't get set deep enough to look "dimpled"...) and the "cap' of th Mud wasn't sealed properly. Those things happen when a Drywall hanger doesn't care much, expects the Drywall finisher to cover his crappy work, and the Drywall finisher doesn't care enough to notice / do anything to correct the situation. We DIY'ers are by nature more meticulous, and unlike Contractors, we have to "live' with our work. Kirnack, I know you have it in you to do it right, you just have to know how to do it right and make sure no step is done....not right. wink.gif

If someone is willing to be patient, and follow instructions to the letter, they can mud / Tape / Finish / and smooth Drywall to perfection. Or close enough so as to not matter. But as stated, you have to follow directions to the "T". Even the "Skimming" of a large area with Drywall Compound to create a completely even and identical surface overall isn't hard....just comes with the need for one to be exacting.

Choosing Drywall is a case where one sacrifices one's time and effort to save a goodly amount of cash...or more importantly, to have the size screen surface he really wants. If a existing "Flat" but inappropriate wall surface exists, overlaying 3/8" Drywall and attaching it with Screws can be a wondrously easy and affordable route to take.

This offer stands....anyone who cares to try can look to me for a "Step by Step" instructional via Email / Pm. The only requirement being that they document their effort and post up everything in entirety for others to benefit from.

ANOTHER option is using Sintra in the same manner as 6mm can also be joined in the same manner as Drywall. However the center of each sheet must be glued to the underlying wall. also, the adjoing edges must be "tapered" using a Utility knife so as to create a "valley" at the juncture of the two sheets, and (...as a important note...) one should absolutely always use the adhesive Mesh-type Drywall tape, and never use "Quick Set" Drywall Compound. Lastly, just as with Drywall, one must lightly skim the entire surface of the Sintra with Compound and sand lightly. 2x in fact.

Do all that with either Sintra or Drywall and you can achieve a perfect, blemish free surface on with to paint.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #14 of 21 Old 12-15-2012, 08:54 AM
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Hi MM, after skim the Sintra, is it necessary to roll/spray a duster/coat of white paint as basecoat before spraying the Silver Fire mix?
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-15-2012, 09:14 AM
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just in case MM's busy...

yes. if it's just bare white sintra then the primer or white undercoat is not necessary.
but if you did a skim then you'll want roll or spray a white undercoat.
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-15-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

just in case MM's busy...
yes. if it's just bare white sintra then the primer or white undercoat is not necessary.
but if you did a skim then you'll want roll or spray a white undercoat.


What busy? mad.gif

tongue.gif

Specifically, onto Drywall Compound one should spray (or roll) on 2 coats of a Primer / Sealer, then re-sand.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #17 of 21 Old 12-18-2012, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

just in case MM's busy...
yes. if it's just bare white sintra then the primer or white undercoat is not necessary.
but if you did a skim then you'll want roll or spray a white undercoat.
as for the white undercoat, which finish is recommend? high gloss white or flat/matt white?
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-18-2012, 06:24 AM
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Playing it safe means using a Flat white finish. Gloss is harder to get covered.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #19 of 21 Old 12-18-2012, 06:48 AM
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Thanks & appreciates MM wink.gif flat white it is then smile.gif I asked that because I thought glossy finish might somehow is more reflective thus serve as a better undercoat
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-18-2012, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rts View Post

Thanks curttard. This is helpful info. So did you try all these four colors on the dry wall? In that case, I may be wasting my time with the dry wall. Might be better off painting on a panel or something. Any suggestions on obtaining a smooth projector screen substrate? The largest MDF I see at Home Depot yields less than a 100" screen while the Joann BOC maximizes to 106" screen due to its breadth limitation. Wish there was something bigger than that.
Sorry to join the party so late. Ive been a big DIY guy since joining AVS and can,t believe I'm considering a third screen. I lost lots of time with the spray gun in the past even though many people have done well with it! maybe they aren't created equal.

So with my Wagner not doing the job I whipped out a small foam roller and finished the mess and ended up with a perfect finish. No roller marks at all. Rob
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post #21 of 21 Old 12-18-2012, 08:29 AM
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Yeah, my rolled test panel looked exactly the same as my sprayed panels to me, texture-wise. And far, far easier to do and far, far easier to set up and clean up.
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