My Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White Screen - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Kirnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Well, summer finally ended and I found the time to re-paint my screen. I'm also remodeling our basement/entertainment room/Home theater. This thread will chronicle that effort and hopefully provide a bit of new information. A couple of disclaimers first. When i compare this screen to my prior efforts, I am comparing it to just that, MY prior efforts. I am not making blanket statements about one formula or another.

I started investigating white screens because I just wasn't getting the brightness I needed out of gray screens. Realistically, I should have gone with a smaller screen, more suited to the output of my projector. Oh well! Also, bear in mind that my room is semi-treated--remodeling will bring it back to fully treated--with zero ambient light during movie watching. White would not work near as well in an un-treated room with ambient light.

My first effort began with trying to develop my own screen paint formula. A more difficult task than I had imagined. I came up with something rather complex, and had some promising results. The promising results were tempered with a few problems though. To gauge my success, I researched what might be the best OTS white paint I could find. I came across the Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White which I learned was in fact the exact same paint as the Dulux Light and Space Titanium White that is so well thought of in Europe. The Glidden was so close to my own paint formula in brightness--and devoid of negatives as well--that I realized it was pointless to pursue my own formula. Plus it is OTS and rolls or sprays like a dream!

If you're going to go with a white screen--as opposed to gray--you are after brightness first and foremost. So, if one white paint is brighter than another white paint, is at least as neutral and does not hot spot, it is a better paint. (Assuming equal ease of use.) Lots of people use the Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White because of an article online at Projector Central. So, obviously, it made sense to test that paint as well. Using an i1 Pro and both BabelClor and HCFR software, I analyzed both I analyzed a few other screens as well--including the commercial screen : Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain and Behr 1850 UPW. Here are the results of the analysis of those four screens. (I understand that Behr has changed their formula, so that result is really invalidated.

The first number is cd/m2 with the sensor adjusted for maximum reading. The second number is cd/m2 with the meter lowered about 25 - 30 degrees. the third fourth and fifth numbers are the RGB values. The last number is deltaE from perfect neutral. A deltaE of less than 1.0 is considered perfect. Less than 3.0 is considered to be so close as to be indistinguishable from neutral by the human eye, at least according to what I've read.


Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White:
36.35 31.6 245,246,243 1.43

Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White:
31.25 29.5 240,241,236 2.58

Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain:
36.1 30.8 242,242,236 3.22

Behr 1850 UPW:
35.3 32.05 249,249,246 1.95

One note: This really opened my eyes. Comparing the Behr and the Glidden visually, I would have said the Behr is slightly brighter. The slight color variance can fool the eye; it really truly takes instrumentation to tell the tale.

Visually, I can detect absolutely no hotspotting with the Glidden, Behr, or SW. The Carrada sample is too small for me to really tell.
Personally, I think the Glidden and the Behr are both better choices than the Carrada BW sample I have. Similar gain characteristics and more color neutral. I'd give a slight nod to the Glidden over the Behr, and I'd rate the Sherwin Williams a distant number four. Distant at least when you consider how close the top three are.

So, here are my ratings:
#1 Gliddon Diamond 450, Titanium White, Velvet Matte
#2 Behr UPW 1850, Interior Flat Enamel
#3 Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain Manufactured screen.
#4 Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White


BTW: I did do reflectance curves of all the white paints, they are all equally good with the Behr being the brightest white, N9.78. I was just too lazy to save the graphs.

So because of this analysis I decided to paint my screen white with the Glidden. I also encouraged it's use over the SW. I was called on that--rightfully--because I had never actually seen a full screen done with the Glidden. Now I have. So how does my subjective analysis compare to my instrumented analysis? Well, I can best sum up my impressions thusly: WOW!

The straight on shot of the screen was done with a flash to demonstrate the lack of hotspotting. The screenies are of an 8700UB hitting the 138" screen with a measured 440 lumens. I'm hitting it with 1200 lumens now and it's even more WOW.









The Screen is amazing: we watched Avatar again with my new "Light Power Edition" 5020 and this screen. Wow, wow, wow. Not a hint of grain, shimmer, or hotspotting. Just a crystal clear image. My wife--who is not sensitive to such things and swore she'd never notice a difference--was stunned by the picture. She absolutely raved about it. Of course, she was seeing the combined effect of the new PJ and the new screen. The overall improvement--considering both the upgraded PJ and screen-- feels like as much as when we went from SD to HD. Seriously, it's that good.

After getting a 5020, I was thinking I would paint the screen gray because I'm getting 1200 lumens in ECO mode, but I'm absolutely stunned by the picture. Over 20 ftl... Brilliant whites and gorgeous deep blacks. Best picture I've seen yet on a screen. I think I'll be leaving it white!
Kirnak is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 07:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Still annoyed at myself for forgetting about the Glidden and getting SW instead. What's the price on it?
curttard is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 12-16-2012, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Kirnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
It's around $50 a gallon as I remember, I got it almost a year ago. I had to have it shipped to me as there aren't any Glidden Professional stores around where I live. (The only place you can get the Diamond 450.)
Kirnak is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 08:03 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 200
You must really attribute the majority of your success to your effort to reduce potential reflected light over the Screen. Without such, your white surface would be performing with far less distinction and you would absolutely need some help from a Gray / Silver coating.

Also, no one should discount or ignore the role the 5020 would be playing to give you all that "Wow, wow, wow. ".

I just know your going to post some examples with that PJ in use. Right?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Kirnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I do, I don't and I will... smile.gif

Absolutely, room treatment is critical with the white paint. Before we started the remodel, my room was completely treated, but "cheap" looking. Right now, the room is semi-treated. There's a light colored carpet in ront of the screen --the dark carpet was given away "because we're going to replace it anyway." (OK, If I'd been home I would have told the family member they could have the carpet in a few months...) I need to throw something dark on the floor in front of the screen till the new carpet goes in. After the remodel the room will be completely treated again, but hopefully "classy" looking. We've watched some sports during the day with light in the room, and that look good too. However, you gotta remember that low black levels don't matter in sports. All that really matters is bright colors and hitting the screen with over 1700 lumens goes a long way towards bright colors. I could only manage 1200 with the 8700, the extra 500 with the 5020 makes a big difference with that white screen. Plus I have a few hundred more lumens on tap If I remove the LPE filter for football parties.

The 5020 and the LPE filter is a big part of the wow actor. (See my sig for a thread on the LPE filter.) Not only am I getting 1200 reasonably color accurate lumens in ECO, native contrast is up about 20%. I'm taking Epson's word on the contrast improvement, but subjective viewing seems to confirm their claims.

However, even while the 8700 was still in place I was still VERY impressed with the screen. The 8700 had always been marginal as far as output in THX mode with my screen, given it's size. The picture was just too dim. I was getting a measured 8fL off the screen. After going white, fL jumped to 10 and the picture had a much brighter feel to it. Before, sunlit scenes just seemed to drab. After, sunlit scenes looked sunlit again. With the white, colors seemed brighter and clearer. My prior screen efforts had also been plagued by grain, shimmer and other problems. With the Glidden, I get none of that. Now, to be fair, my prior efforts were also plagued by application errors.

I will say that I think white screens are for those who are willing to go full dark treatment in their theater rooms. Dark walls, ceiling, floor and furniture. If you're willing to do that, I think white is worth a look. If you're not, and most aren't, you need to go gray. Just my opinion any way.
Kirnak is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 09:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Maybe I missed it, but did you roll or spray?
curttard is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 10:02 AM
Member
 
tank01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If your using a 16:9 screen i would recommend using a foam core painted black as a simple masking system. The white screen seems to be about 20% lighter in the black bars. So a cheap foam core can give it another wow factor that many neglect to do.

infocus 4805, mitsubishi hd1000, optoma hd 20 for one month, and now epson 8500ub
tank01 is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Kirnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Maybe I missed it, but did you roll or spray?

That's a whole 'nother discussion... smile.gif I meant to talk about that later. I sprayed. I sprayed very fine coats with a 1.0mm tip with the Graco sprayer. I didn't spray wide open, I limited the amount of material. What I got was a very fine sandpapery like finish, like it was 1200 or 1600 grit sandpaper. This actually limited the brightness compared to my rolled samples. It measures a good 10% dimmer than a rolled sample in fact. Now, had I sprayed normal coats I'm sure the texture would be as smooth or smoother than rolling.

If I was still "lumen Challenged", I'd repaint. But I now have an excess of output available. I'm so thrilled with the picture that I wouldn't dare paint over it, at least in the foreseeable future. It does beg the question though; does that slight texture do more than dim the picture 10%? It certainly doesn't hurt the picture--other than being a bit less bright. But does that slight texture help this screen be as tack sharp and clear as it is? I really don't know...

@Tank01: Thanks! That's actually in the plans. I have magnets attached to the rear of the sintra to hold such a masking system in place. After I finish the remodel I'll work on the masking.
Kirnak is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 09-24-2013, 06:53 AM
Newbie
 
wesmannmsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks, very informative article. I will be trying something very close to this in the near future.
wesmannmsu is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 09-24-2013, 11:13 AM
Member
 
tank01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hi kirnak

I have been using an epson 8500 on my white shirwin williams pro classic 108" screen for a full year now, and im very satisfied with the results. Im thinkinking of increasing the size to 120" wide 2:35 screen painted in the same color since I still have 3/4 of a gallon left. Do you think the 8500 can lite up such a big screen in normal mode. I have 17fl right now with my current screen. And if it's not enough what do you think about running it on dynamic till my next projector upgrade? Dynamic looks pretty good to my untrained eyes. It feels doable and you've most probably already got to test it.

Your new setup is awesome.
Thanks

infocus 4805, mitsubishi hd1000, optoma hd 20 for one month, and now epson 8500ub
tank01 is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 10-09-2013, 06:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Kirnak, just curious if you ever happened to test some of the Glidden GLN9000 from Home Depot to see how a sample compares to your Diamond 450. The GLN9000 is only $10 a quart or $20 a gallon.
curttard is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 06:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Do I need a microfiber roller for the Glidden or is a standard 3/16" nap good?

mijotter is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Kirnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Kirnak, just curious if you ever happened to test some of the Glidden GLN9000 from Home Depot to see how a sample compares to your Diamond 450. The GLN9000 is only $10 a quart or $20 a gallon.

Wow, just saw this! Sorry for the late reply. I'll check the GLN9000 as soon as I can make time...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Do I need a microfiber roller for the Glidden or is a standard 3/16" nap good?

I know the Diamond 450 works great with a roller, but which roller to use I don't really know. I sprayed my screen, but a test panel I did was done with a roller. I can't really remember which roller I used. I do remember that it really smoothed out as it dried.
Kirnak is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 12-31-2013, 11:53 AM
Newbie
 
vette5451's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Kirnak,
you mention "titanium white" in the description for the Glidden Diamond 450, is this the tint or base color ?
vette5451 is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 12-31-2013, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Kirnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by vette5451 View Post

Kirnak,
you mention "titanium white" in the description for the Glidden Diamond 450, is this the tint or base color ?

Just the base color, no tint.
Kirnak is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 01-01-2014, 06:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
How's the shootout going, Kirnak?

In my new house I'm projecting onto GLN9000 painted on the wall and couldn't be happier. From what Harpmaker said at HTS, the 450 should be brighter but otherwise identical. Although if it rolls smoother, which it sounds like it does, that should also make for less texture as well.
curttard is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 01-02-2014, 09:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smokarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Posts: 3,232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 62
+1

Looking forward to the shoot out as well. Plan on making a new screen sometimes in Spring.
smokarz is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 01-26-2014, 10:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
What happen to the shoot out?.

jsil is online now  
post #19 of 19 Old 06-06-2014, 08:03 PM
Newbie
 
askme911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for excellent input about the paint. I'm very much interested in glidden diamond 450 but the problem is that I can't find it anywhere in Ontario, canada. The only thing I found close to it is "Dulux diamond" matte finish and looking at website of glidden professionals they indicate diamond 450 formerly known as "dulux diamond".
http://www.gliddenprofessional.com/Dealers/Products/Durability/Diamond-450-No-VOC

So, my question is it a same paint in terms of pq? And second can I use it paint my projector screen which I bought a month ago and came with stains and retouch which gets darker and specially in bright scenes
askme911 is offline  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off