Need advice for DIY Screen for Epson 5020 in THX mode - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-23-2012, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi there

I'm looking to add a 5020 to my living room home theater. I have a 50" G20 that I run in THX mode. I think my max screen will be 90-100".

I will mostly be using the projector with fairly controlled light and I'm thinking about adding some black blinding curtains to run the full length of the sides to make it a tiny "screening" area.

I have been reading about the BW screens, but I am sensitive to "grain" in a screen and I don't want to see any. And I want to get the deepest blacks I can get. I am leaning towards a Neutral Dark Grey. Anyone have any experience with this for the 5020? It seems bright enough for a grey screen only. I'll be fairly close to the screen 10 feet or so.

I'll also be running it in THX mode, or at least that's the plan.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-23-2012, 06:23 PM
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Those are some pretty specific criteria for help, but I'm gonna chime in anyway. I used to have a BenQ W5000. It has less lumens than the 5020. I used a BW screen and loved that the whites were super bright and the blacks were very black. However, its downfall for me was the grain. By the sounds of it, you wouldn't like it at all.

Whether you choose a white or grey screen depends on your surroundings. Are your walls and ceilings white? If they are, grey is the way to go for sure, as the white will kill your contrast. I took the middle road and went with a light neutral grey (CIL Snow Field). I think it was N8.5 or N9. Anyway, I used Minwax Satin Polycrylic mixed in (3 parts paint, 1 part polycrylic) on the last two layers sprayed on to increase the brightness. You wouldn't need to do that I don't think.

The other thing you didn't mention is your throw distance - that is also very important. If you are at the extreme ends of the zoom range, your lumen output is going to be vastly different:

http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/

Not sure what THX mode is, but I'm pretty certain it is on the dim end of your projector's capabilities. Still, with a moderate throw range, a grey screen, and 100", you should be just fine. BTW, any reason why you don't go bigger? I'm sitting at 13' away, and I have about 138" 2.35:1 screen. I couldn't be happier. Bigger is better. wink.gif

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post #3 of 16 Old 12-23-2012, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks. It does give me some more info and it does sound like i should go for a neutral grey.

I'm limited in size by my wall space, but I would love to go bigger if I could. But I would be upgrading from 50" so right under 100" would be a vast improvement.

I'm not at home now so I can't say for sure what the throw distance would be. But I will most likely cut a hole in the back wall and place the projector in a "box" through it and connected from the other room, which is my office. So it will be hidden from sight and mounted as far back as possible.

THX mode is usually dimmer, at least it is on my panny G20. And as you prob know, it's basically a pre-set calibration according to THX specs, which should in theory give close to reference picture possible out of the box, as the filmmakers intended... I always liked THX as a brand, and i do like the look of it, where I've seen it and I always wanted a THX home theater smile.gif

Thanks blastermaster.

Would love to hear from new owners of the 5020 out there...
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post #4 of 16 Old 01-01-2013, 10:54 PM
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Waiting to pick up my 5020 this Thursday. I've yet to buy my screen and have a tiny idea of what to get. I think a light grey with a gain of 1.1 at 92 or 100 inches.
My projector will be about 14 ft with light walls and ceiling
My question is this....is it right?
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post #5 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 05:49 AM
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You have a installation situation that requires a bit more careful consideration (...and attention...) than it has been given to date.

Also, there is no need to refer Members to a competing Forum, nor is it advisable or or correct to do so. If your a "Member" here, respect the purpose of this Forum, which is not to steer people elsewhere.

You posted simultaneously at two locations, and that's certainly your right to do so...but I'm not sure why you think a dark gray is going to be satisfactory based on the limited amount of steerage you received elsewhere over the Holiday.

You can be certain, as also can be Parsonsk that Veil will be considerably under 1.0 gain, and in THX mode that won't be...or at least risks not being satisfactory dependent upon a few factors. (...you never did relate your throw distance,,,)

I have installed several 5010-6010s & 20s myself as well as directed other Members here who also have those PJs. What you "Really" want and need is a moderate shade of Gray that also has a gain of at least 1,1 - 1.2 with a extremely clear, "speckle-free" surface. In THX Mode, and on low lamp, you will find that Veil is going to attenuate your colors and whites, requiring you to calibrate up and out of THX mode to restore your Image vibrancy.

You would be better served by pulling up and being just patient enough to get some feedback from actual end users of the Epson that have actually used what your considering..
The suggestion to use Sintra was indeed wise. Also, as far as mounting the PJ behind Glass, the primary consideration will be your ventilation. Secondly will be the distance your Throw is across the room to the screen.

When /if you decide to post up some additional info I can then give you a definitive screen surface recommendation.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #6 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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MississippiMan, what is your suggestion for a good paint mix for my setup, and Parsonsk... My throw distance will be around 12ft. I have light ceiling and light walls, but I will eventually be getting black curtains to block off the side walls. The front wall, where the screen will be is dark. I have been recommended "Snowfield" in Glidden paint, but was told that "veil" may work as well, though in THX mode with some hours on the lamp it might get dark, but it's possible to run the pj at normal instead of the ECO when running THX isnt it?

I will be using it at times with ambient light, so i will definitely go with a grey screen. And I am over sensitive to specks/grain in screens so it needs to be a flat smooth color. The likes of Black Diamond and other gain screens drive me crazy.

So to summarize: throw distance 12ft, ceiling height 8' 2", looking at a 90-100" screen in 16:9. Need it to work with ambient light at times. Most of the movie watching will be in fairly dark environment but with white ceiling and walls. Eventually I will block the side walls with curtains leaving only ceiling and back wall (pj) in white.

I'm looking to build the screen from 1/4" MDF and mount with a large plasma wall mount.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
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post #7 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhariush View Post

MississippiMan, what is your suggestion for a good paint mix for my setup, and Parsonsk... My throw distance will be around 12ft. I have light ceiling and light walls, but I will eventually be getting black curtains to block off the side walls. The front wall, where the screen will be is dark. I have been recommended "Snowfield" in Glidden paint, but was told that "veil" may work as well, though in THX mode with some hours on the lamp it might get dark, but it's possible to run the pj at normal instead of the ECO when running THX isnt it?

Yes....but the end result skewers the desired THX parameters a bit. It's always been better to have extra lumen output and be able to attenuate down to a desired state than to try to "grow Lumens" where none exist.
Quote:
I will be using it at times with ambient light, so i will definitely go with a grey screen. And I am over sensitive to specks/grain in screens so it needs to be a flat smooth color. The likes of Black Diamond and other gain screens drive me crazy.
So to summarize: throw distance 12ft, ceiling height 8' 2", looking at a 90-100" screen in 16:9. Need it to work with ambient light at times. Most of the movie watching will be in fairly dark environment but with white ceiling and walls. Eventually I will block the side walls with curtains leaving only ceiling and back wall (pj) in white.
I'm looking to build the screen from 1/4" MDF and mount with a large plasma wall mount.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Well first off, MDF is a "I have to use it, I have no other choice" selection. That would mostly center around both cost and effort considerations. But the truths are very well known,

1. BOTH sides of 1/4" Mdf must be sealed with two coats of Primer (Rolled) or 3 coats (Sprayed) to prevent bowing unless Mdf is "Frame Mounted", and then....it just keeps getting heavier and heavier....
2. The variable porosity of a Mdf surface require pre-sanding...cleaning...priming / sanding / priming to be ready to hopefully receive a finish coat that is truly smooth. (non-viewing side needs only priming)

Now done right, yes...the Mdf can be very serviceable. But it's sooooo heavy! and if your to attempt to attach it to a wall via a conventional "Dual Arm" Plasma Wall Mount, the "Screen Mdf" will have to be backed by a thicker material, either glued on 1x lumber slats or a securely glued 4' x 4' x 3/4" "plywood pad" located at center.

Ya gotta be told...it would be far better to rip a French Cleat hanger, using 1 x 6 lumber. A long length of such can double as a "Stiffener" as well.

Personally, I'd suggest Sintra...a material designed to be painted upon, mounted upon a frame of 1" x 6" poplar Lumber. Lighter, ready to receive paint....it's really highly preferred although it's expense does add to the cost of a good DIY effort.

Paint-wise....I'll get back to that soon......

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #8 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The user from the other forum, who is also a member here also suggested the Sintra board. I am not familiar with it but thought bit was a foam board that would be a little fragile, which is why I thought of the MDF. But weight is indeed an issue. Is sintra board similar to the architect boards that are sold at art supply stores?

I'll look for a supplier here in los Angeles and look into it. It would be nice to loose some weight.
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post #9 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 08:22 PM
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Sintra is indeed a type of foam board, but it is most definitely NOT fragile. If that is the reason you are reluctant to use it fear not. In many ways, it is tougher than MDF.
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post #10 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I found a few places nearby that carry the 6mm board at a not too bad price so I'll check stock on it tomorrow. Have you ever seen the light grey Sintra board users a screen without paint before?
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post #11 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhariush View Post

I found a few places nearby that carry the 6mm board at a not too bad price so I'll check stock on it tomorrow. Have you ever seen the light grey Sintra board users a screen without paint before?

No...it does have a bit of a sheen.

But that can be "erased" with a Dry "magic Eraser" rubbed evenly across the entire surface. You can give it a go...the worst case being you must apply a primer then paint.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #12 of 16 Old 01-02-2013, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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painting is probably the way to go then. Do you not think the Glidden "Snowfield" is a good option for me? As you think the "Veil" is too dark...
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post #13 of 16 Old 01-03-2013, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhariush View Post

painting is probably the way to go then. Do you not think the Glidden "Snowfield" is a good option for me? As you think the "Veil" is too dark...

It will certainly work, but do not expect to be able to maintain the exact THX calibration standards.

It's a total Crap Shoot as to if adjustments in Gamma and Color Balance will get you back to D65k. But with a lighter Gray, you certainly don't have as tough a row to hoe.

And as far as 3D goes, on some...if not most content, you will likely have to engage the 5020's brighter THX 3D mode.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #14 of 16 Old 01-03-2013, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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So "Snowfield" is probably the best choice then? Or do you know of another paint mix that would be better?

I don't like 3D and won't be using it. I might try it, but that's about it.

Thanks
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post #15 of 16 Old 01-03-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhariush View Post

So "Snowfield" is probably the best choice then? Or do you know of another paint mix that would be better?
I don't like 3D and won't be using it. I might try it, but that's about it.
Thanks

As far as I'm concerned, it will be the easiest....but not the best. But considering all the bad experience you've had viewing higher performing surfaces, and all the contrary advice against trying such, it might be what you should do first.

Personally, I have never advocated people "trying" something out. I advise on applications that take the end results as far as they can go.

Eliminating the chance of seeing speckles or such isn't something hard, nor is the ability to have sufficient gain in a Gray surface. But to do so you do have to take steps to bring things to a different level.

A "OTS" Gray made from a Interior Flat Enamel properly sprayed over a White surface will take you just as far as such an application can. But....it's not as far as you could go....nor as effective in all instances.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #16 of 16 Old 01-03-2013, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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So what is your suggestion for best result?
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