Acoustic Transparency of Spandex - The Truth - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 403 Old 01-10-2017, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipford View Post
Sorry I meant Moleskin versus Milliskin.
Ok then.....

Moleskin is less effective for AT audio, even less so as far as visual quality

Milliskin all the way, baby!
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post #392 of 403 Old 02-07-2017, 11:53 AM
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@skipford


MississippiMan is right. Definitely go with milliskin spandex. I used a SINGLE layer of milliskin matte white spandex and got great results!


Keep in mind that absolutely everything behind my projection surface was already black, so I wasn't worried about reflections from back there, though when I did briefly have my old screen mounted behind it, there was a clear halo to the image from it passing through the spandex, reflecting off the white screen 2 feet behind it, then hitting the rear of the spandex.


As far as AT properties go, I can't hear a difference in the sound shooting through a single layer of milliskin, even before redoing my XT32 calibration. I certainly wouldn't be concerned with the AT properties of two layers.


As far as how to do a constant image height setup, the screen is a 2.39:1 format, the projector is set up such that the width fills the screen. Much of my content is played via my HTPC, which I have set to a 2.39:1 display ratio so it fills the screen perfectly and automatically adjusts content to be constrained by the height parameters of the screen. I also use madVR filters in Kodi and JRiver to automatically crop out hard coded black bars from content. As far as Blu-Rays go, anything that is 2.39:1 displays perfectly right off the bat, for anything that doesn't, my projector supports enough negative digital zoom to fit 16:9 content to the screen, plus I could get up and adjust the lens manually if I wanted to, but the priority in my setup is definitely 2.39:1 content, so if I need to accept slightly lesser quality for 16:9 content by digitally zooming out, I'm usually okay with that. In conjunction, I've found that most 16:9 content still looks very good when cropped to 2.39:1. I currently have black felt above the screen, but I'm looking into affordable velvet options to absorb overscan. this way I can just let the 16:9 content shoot onto the screen and let the top and bottom information be absorbed by the velvet. It remains to be seen how practical that is.


I definitely considered an Anamorphic lens setup, but the cost of the commercial products were exorbitant and the amount of work required to DIY one was enough to keep me happy with what I've got. I think this setup should serve me well till I can afford a 4k projector, then maybe I'll consider reworking things.


There is zero moire or screendoor effect with milliskin, it has a super close weave. The image looks great even close up and the colors pop super well, even with my fairly entry level projector (Optoma HD141x). I couldn't be happier with the results, and I sit close, this screen is 124" diagonal and we sit 8' away. The image still looks really good and the fabric introduces no issues, the images on this AT screen are better than they were on my motorized drop down blackout cloth screen.


Also, I was worried that stretching the spandex to get it even would be difficult. It was extremely easy. it wasn't critical that everything be exactly the same. Just stretch it till the wrinkles are gone and staple it down. Good to go!








https://flic.kr/p/Rm8DoG
https://flic.kr/p/RGbpcw
https://flic.kr/p/RGbp2S

Last edited by kodyaudette; 02-07-2017 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Updating photos
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post #393 of 403 Old 02-07-2017, 11:55 AM
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Not sure exactly why those photos didn't embed, but I put the links below.
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post #394 of 403 Old 02-08-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodyaudette View Post
@skipford

As far as how to do a constant image height setup, the screen is a 2.39:1 format, the projector is set up such that the width fills the screen. Much of my content is played via my HTPC, which I have set to a 2.39:1 display ratio so it fills the screen perfectly and automatically adjusts content to be constrained by the height parameters of the screen. I also use madVR filters in Kodi and JRiver to automatically crop out hard coded black bars from content. As far as Blu-Rays go, anything that is 2.39:1 displays perfectly right off the bat, for anything that doesn't, my projector supports enough negative digital zoom to fit 16:9 content to the screen, plus I could get up and adjust the lens manually if I wanted to, but the priority in my setup is definitely 2.39:1 content, so if I need to accept slightly lesser quality for 16:9 content by digitally zooming out, I'm usually okay with that. In conjunction, I've found that most 16:9 content still looks very good when cropped to 2.39:1. I currently have black felt above the screen, but I'm looking into affordable velvet options to absorb overscan. this way I can just let the 16:9 content shoot onto the screen and let the top and bottom information be absorbed by the velvet. It remains to be seen how practical that is.
I'm thinking about switching to a 2.35:1 screen and I use Jriver to play movies. Do you have a link or info on the MadVR settings you use? I just got a Sony HW50es projector that does not support power zoom so any switching between aspect ratios would be manual. Still trying to figure out if it makes sense to go with the 2.35:1 screen.
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post #395 of 403 Old 02-09-2017, 11:33 AM
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I'm considering building a spandex screen for my home theater. Based on the other info I've gathered from this thread, its likely I will choose white over silver for the two layers. My question is about viewing angles. Specifically, how is viewing well off to the side? Is there a significant brightness loss?

I plan to use a Panasonic PT-AE8000U projector from 12'10" away. This should produce both a 125" diagonal 2.39:1 screen, and allow a 98" 16:9 CIH viewing area using the zoom feature on this projector.

The way i want to set up the room will have an "L" shaped sectional couch with the long side of the "L" parallel to the screen. The "prime" viewing seat will be 11' away, directly on center of the screen. The viewing position on the short part of the "L" closest to the screen will be about 6.5' to the left of the center of the screen, and 6.5' back. This works out to about a little less than a 9' direct line to the center of the screen on a 45 degree angle. Obviously, the angle will be much shallower or steeper from this seat to the sides of the screen.

This seat would probably not be used too much, but i imagine any scenario when it would be used, there would be some ambient light in the room. Otherwise, the light in the room will be very well controlled.

Can anyone provide some insight as to how the milliskin spandex screen works for off-center viewing?

Thanks!
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post #396 of 403 Old 02-09-2017, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURDxSANDWICH View Post
I'm considering building a spandex screen for my home theater. Based on the other info I've gathered from this thread, its likely I will choose white over silver for the two layers. My question is about viewing angles. Specifically, how is viewing well off to the side? Is there a significant brightness loss?

I plan to use a Panasonic PT-AE8000U projector from 12'10" away. This should produce both a 125" diagonal 2.39:1 screen, and allow a 98" 16:9 CIH viewing area using the zoom feature on this projector.

The way i want to set up the room will have an "L" shaped sectional couch with the long side of the "L" parallel to the screen. The "prime" viewing seat will be 11' away, directly on center of the screen. The viewing position on the short part of the "L" closest to the screen will be about 6.5' to the left of the center of the screen, and 6.5' back. This works out to about a little less than a 9' direct line to the center of the screen on a 45 degree angle. Obviously, the angle will be much shallower or steeper from this seat to the sides of the screen.

This seat would probably not be used too much, but i imagine any scenario when it would be used, there would be some ambient light in the room. Otherwise, the light in the room will be very well controlled.

Can anyone provide some insight as to how the milliskin spandex screen works for off-center viewing?

Thanks!
The matte spandex shouldn't have a significant amount of glossiness, so the viewing from the sides should be just as bright and uniform as the viewing from the front/center seat.
Off-axis viewing will be very good.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #397 of 403 Old 02-09-2017, 01:01 PM
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Did anyone ever figure out what the effective gain of the milliskin actually is?

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post #398 of 403 Old 02-09-2017, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The matte spandex shouldn't have a significant amount of glossiness, so the viewing from the sides should be just as bright and uniform as the viewing from the front/center seat.
Off-axis viewing will be very good.
Thanks for the info! I pretty much found every other answer I could possibly want in these forums, except for that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Did anyone ever figure out what the effective gain of the milliskin actually is?
I believe its somewhere earlier in this thread, or sprinkled throughout these forums. The white over silver has a gain of 0.8.
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post #399 of 403 Old 02-09-2017, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Did anyone ever figure out what the effective gain of the milliskin actually is?
Matte milliskin white is a 0.57gain surface by itself.
Matte milliskin light-silver is a 0.27gain surface by itself.

The second "backing" layer adds about 25% of its own reflectance back through the front layer.

A 2-layer setup with light-silver behind white will have the silver backing "adding" 25% of its 0.27gain (about 0.07gain) through the white, totaling about 0.64gain.
A white backing can "add" about 0.14gain (25% of its 0.57gain) to the white front, totaling about 0.71gain.
A black backing will obviously refect basically nothing back, so its main purpose is minimizing reflections from surfaces behind the screen...a fairly moot point if the area behind the screen is dark-colored and not reflective.

It's also important to note that the added gain from a light-silver or white backing isn't nice and crisp like you may normally expect from an opaque surface..instead, because it is passing back through a 0.2mil translucent fabric, the added gain will be somewhat foggy. This is part of why you'll see occasional complaints about spandex screens (particularly white-over-white) looking too soft or slightly unfocused. The other main reason is because just the top layer by itself will also slightly blur the image because it is a visibly translucent material that causes very slight reflections through its own self.

That's why white over black (or potentially white by itself as a single layer) provides the sharpest image from spandex, yet still an image that's slightly "softer" than you'll see from a more opaque surface.

It's also important to mention that some people won't even notice the slight added softness.
If you're on the fence, temporarily set up your white layer and try projecting on it with something bright/white against its back as well as something dark/black to see if you notice a lack of sharpness from your seating-distance or a significant difference in brightness.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #400 of 403 Old 02-13-2017, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gworrel View Post
I'm thinking about switching to a 2.35:1 screen and I use Jriver to play movies. Do you have a link or info on the MadVR settings you use? I just got a Sony HW50es projector that does not support power zoom so any switching between aspect ratios would be manual. Still trying to figure out if it makes sense to go with the 2.35:1 screen.


Here is basically what I do. Keep in mind though that it does effectively reduce the number of pixels you are using when you display 16:9 content.


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post #401 of 403 Old 02-13-2017, 03:05 PM
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Also keep in mind that it only works for computer sources. So if you want to play Blu-Rays, they need to be able to be run through JRiver and an internal Blu-Ray drive.
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post #402 of 403 Old 02-13-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kodyaudette View Post
Also keep in mind that it only works for computer sources. So if you want to play Blu-Rays, they need to be able to be run through JRiver and an internal Blu-Ray drive.
Thanks. That doesn't look too tough. I rip all my Blu-rays and play them in Jriver. I suppose the only problem is when I watch TV since that comes from my dvr. I don't watch a lot of TV in my home theater but definitely some.
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post #403 of 403 Old 02-14-2017, 07:13 AM
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That's where I was as well. I don't watch a lot either, but just a bit. Superbowl, etc.


I'm just making sure I get the most absorptive Black Velvet I can find so that I can just allow any 16:9 overscan on the top or bottom to be absorbed.
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