Long time coming. Finally time to build my AT screen!!! Spandex or Seymour (or other)??? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 44 Old 02-07-2013, 03:22 PM
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MM, I totally get your point. However, based on your explanation, it sounds like there's no forum that welcomes a mfg/DIY hybrid without violating the rules of each individual forum. Perhaps a hybrid forum should be started?

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post #32 of 44 Old 02-07-2013, 03:27 PM
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Tux, I only have an 8.5x11 sample of the xd. Good enough? The larger sample costs $20, so I didn't want to shell out the cash for that.

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post #33 of 44 Old 02-07-2013, 03:51 PM
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Tux,

Someone involved in DIY Screen Building isn't tied to the same constraints as someone involved in DIY Speaker Building. While the latter must use Mfg products because it's virtually impossible for someone to wind their own Voice Coils and construct their own Speaker Baskets, DIY Screen making is based on using products NOT specific to use as Screens, so that depending on such products is not necessary.

You obviously do not know of the several years of rancorous postings, intentional assaults on member's characters, and in a real sense, the belittlement of AVS's reputation on a "World Wide" basis, all because a relative few disgruntled members and Mfg Screen proponents made a concerted effort to subvert Threads, deny members the ability to discuss DIY projects, and create a terrible atmosphere for exchanging ideas. DIY'ers around the Planet cried foul. Some of it was profit driven by Mfg Screen Dealers ( losing profit to DIY apps hurt ....and we "were" hurtin; them...! Other situations were of a more personal affront, based on jealousy that some DIY Screen apps were dominating.the attention of prospective Mfg Screen Customers.

First the two Forums were split (...do you gotta ask 'why"?) and when that didn't stem the flow of Bile and confrontation, more explicit edicts were laid down. That effort has lasted for a good while...but only because most everyone plays by the stated Rules. While you and a few others may think this is not applicable in this case, it is...and recent Threads and post allude to it only getting worse as time passes.

Absolutely, most of everything has to do with DIY'ers tending to feel what they have made is as good as or even better than the Mfg products their Peers have chosen. That rankles those who felt the need to spend...sometimes a lot...for whatever reason. It always has.

And it's already been proven in the past, since the changes came into effect, that given even the slightest leeway, some people will not just take advantage of such, they will purposefully run it into the ground.

So with DIY Screen, there are no "Gray Areas".....because some people's own actions won't allow such. And it has to be that way. Consider this: If I start a Thread to discuss the merits between having a DIY painted Wall Screen over spending for a Black Diamond, or even go on there to "express my opinion" about such over on the Screen Forum, I'll get a whamming so hard and fast it would be silly. And be certain of this, the demands to do so would come from a very specific group...and be backed up by the Forum Owners and Mods.

How then is it to be considered fair that those who fall prey to only knowing about Mfg Screen options because the only place they visited was Screens. Are they to be denied the chance to find out about viable DIY Screen alternatives...because one does not dare mention DIY Paint...or Spandex...on the "Screens" Forum?

The answer is "Yes". Because that is what the Rules laid down dictate.
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

MM, I totally get your point. However, based on your explanation, it sounds like there's no forum that welcomes a mfg/DIY hybrid without violating the rules of each individual forum. Perhaps a hybrid forum should be started?

Actually, as I stated previously, there is a way...but it involves focusing on the specific things allowed, and declining to elaborate on the things that are not.

All I have asked is that such a courtesy be extended to this Forum. A lack of understanding...or simply a unwillingness to consider is really where the problem lies.

I instruct many people "off Thread" via PM and Email on how to use a variety of products,and construct many different things. I've sent people to Mfg Screen sites, and even tutored those on using Stewart / SMX / and Da-Lite materials on DIY Frames. But always I do so in a manner that does not violate Forum Rules.

And last of all, the weirdness of the DIY Rules on this Forum is due to what has been expected to happen in the past. The Forum Owners want no, nor will allow no repetition. If blame is to be cast, it belongs on the backs of those whose actions and intentions made such edicts necessary.

We can effectively help anyone do anything if we but use common sense and reasoning. If I was told to never help people who want advice on how to construct a Theater, because they asked such on a Thread about painting a Screen, I'd comply...and take such advice to PMs...or visit a Thread on a different Forum that addresses such.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #34 of 44 Old 02-07-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

My point is;

You are wrong is as much as Seymour Center Stage material is a specifically mfg Screen material, sold as such, by a Company whose business is selling "MFG Screen Material"

Spandex is used by millions to cover their arses. It's a Fabric intended for clothing use. It is not, nor was intended to be a Screen material. It's use as such constitutes a "DIY Find".

When is the last..or even the first time you've seen someone wearing Seymour Fabric while running a Marathon on CT.?

Crossover requests where people are making inquiries as to how to build a Frame are going to by nature come our way on DIY Screens. and certainly some will entail the poster wanting to use new or used Mfg Screen material. What is contrary to the Rules and ideals of DIY Screens is elaborating on why someone should be using a Mfg Screen material instead of available DIY selections. If they truly need a Mfg product, a simple reference to same and a directed response toward the Frame issue is all that is...and should be offered. Anything else...take it to PMs or suggest that a dedicated Thread on the "Build" be introduced on "Screens".

Really.....this is all just so obvious, and for anyone who regularly frequents this particular Forum to repeatedly state that they do not know the difference between what this DIY Forum stands for...and against, that is very hard to swallow as being anything but a convenient case of ignorance. That's not an intended slight or insult...just an expression of how silly trying to make out that there is no difference between an expensive, dedicated Mfg Screen Cloth and some Spandex Cloth from a Cloth Distributor as far as what is or is not accepted as falling under the stated Rules on this DIY Forum.

The real fact is, DIY applications are not welcome or allowed on "Screens" Not even a little twist like "I bought a Mfg Frame, but I want to apply a Sheet of Sintra painted with a basic Gray paint" will find acceptance. In the reverse, even the mention of using "GOO paint", a Mfg Paint for DIY'ers is something that can only be discussed about on "Screens".

The Forum Owners made these rules to keep promotion of DIY ideals off "Screens" and to keep Mfg Screen products off DIY Screens. The latter to prevent Mfg Screen Products from being promoted (ie: discussed beyond a "mention") by the Sellers of such. That also applies to those who own such products. It's an austere rule...no denying that...but it has to be explicit and unyielding or guess what happens....? A groundswell of threads and responses exactly like what has occurred on several Threads, and initiated and carried on with a purpose by a few individuals. That's it...really. Where's the misunderstanding here?





When you have someone from this DIY forums that can make/produce Spandex from their home, get back to me.

rolleyes.gif
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post #35 of 44 Old 02-07-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
I instruct many people "off Thread" via PM and Email on how to use a variety of products,and construct many different things. I've sent people to Mfg Screen sites, and even tutored those on using Stewart / SMX / and Da-Lite materials on DIY Frames. But always I do so in a manner that does not violate Forum Rules

Fair enough. I'll have my XD up in about a week. If anyone wants to see the before (Moleskin Spandex) and after (XD), send me a PM. The one thing I will say is I don't want to discourage those using spandex - it is a relatively inexpensive way to get a nice looking AT screen. I just found my current setup to be too dim. Others are finding that as well and are evolving the procedure by adding white/silver or finer spandex, etc. That is the part of the DIY forum that I think is cool.

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post #36 of 44 Old 02-07-2013, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

When you have someone from this DIY forums that can make/produce Spandex from their home, get back to me.

rolleyes.gif

No can do...but I can point you to someone who can "stretch" their credibility 4-ways by making silly comments. biggrin.gif

Just be advised that most who develop a bent toward always creating issues often find that their roots are buried in the making of such crazy responses when they know they have no real answer to give.

You have lots to offer DIY'ers if you want to / plan to frequent this Forum. You've plainly shown that up to this point. So do your best to understand why DIY Screens exists and why there are Rules in place.

If your still befuddled after all this, then let's meet for a Craft Brew in Hartford between the 19th and the 23rd. I'll be up in West Granby and also flitting around Manchester.

After 3-4 rounds, I'm sure we'll come to a meeting of the minds. ..or lose them

BTW, the beers will be on me. wink.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #37 of 44 Old 02-07-2013, 08:06 PM
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post #38 of 44 Old 02-08-2013, 03:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow!!!!eek.gif

A lot has happened in a couple of hours.

MM. I think I understand only a small portion of the past of this forum and its drama. It seems really sad to me. I also understand that you are a staple in this forum and can definitely respect that.

At the same time, I can also acknowledge what I feel is a definite gray area in interpreting a DIY screen section. My original post was to summons users who have possible experience and exposure to both materials. I do have a Seymour XD sample at home but I too believe the Mfg market is flooded with outrageous mark ups. So let me extend this question in an effort to keep things in perspective. Is there an AT DIY material option out there that will have equal or greater performance then a Seymour XD? If there is, I am all for it and will be more then willing to go for it. As of now, I am unaware of any other options for my application.

Honestly, you cannot expect these two markets not to continuously spew into each others realms. You have innocent users on this forum who are just trying to get some help (with no hidden agendas or complications). And you made a great point in your argument. Why do you think I would rather post this type of thread in a DIY section rather then the screen section? The same reason I would post/lurk in the DIY speakers and subs section rather then the mfg speaker section. Most DIYer sections support products using real world testing/measuring/quantifying/cost. This would not be the case lurking a forum filled with people who have oodles of money to spend and do not base their posts or recommendations on concrete findings or comparisons (simply mfg specs). It is an inherent dynamic of these types of forums and arguments can be made both ways.

At the end of the day, "cant we all just get along". tongue.gif

Oh and I also read somewhere that Seymour XD fabric is very similar if not identical to material used on awnings and covers. Has anyone heard of this. Could be another DIY material possibility.
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post #39 of 44 Old 02-08-2013, 03:55 AM
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post #40 of 44 Old 02-08-2013, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

No can do...but I can point you to someone who can "stretch" their credibility 4-ways by making silly comments. biggrin.gif

Just be advised that most who develop a bent toward always creating issues often find that their roots are buried in the making of such crazy responses when they know they have no real answer to give.

You have lots to offer DIY'ers if you want to / plan to frequent this Forum. You've plainly shown that up to this point. So do your best to understand why DIY Screens exists and why there are Rules in place.

If your still befuddled after all this, then let's meet for a Craft Brew in Hartford between the 19th and the 23rd. I'll be up in West Granby and also flitting around Manchester.

After 3-4 rounds, I'm sure we'll come to a meeting of the minds. ..or lose them

BTW, the beers will be on me. wink.gif



That's very tempting MM. But first, let's see if we can dig ourselves out of this snow storm.
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post #41 of 44 Old 02-08-2013, 05:54 AM
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post #42 of 44 Old 02-08-2013, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Tux, I only have an 8.5x11 sample of the xd. Good enough? The larger sample costs $20, so I didn't want to shell out the cash for that.

I should be able to do something with that. If you don't mind mailing it to me I'll pm you my address.

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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Tux,

You obviously do not know of the several years of rancorous postings, intentional assaults on member's characters, and in a real sense, the belittlement of AVS's reputation on a "World Wide" basis, all because a relative few disgruntled members and Mfg Screen proponents made a concerted effort to subvert Threads, deny members the ability to discuss DIY projects, and create a terrible atmosphere for exchanging ideas.

You're right. I didn't know there was such a history of bickering. To bad it's that way. Thanks for the explanation.
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post #43 of 44 Old 02-08-2013, 09:27 AM
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You're right. I didn't know there was such a history of bickering. To bad it's that way. Thanks for the explanation.

Your welcome.

You really cannot know how much I hate having to bring the subject up....but therein does lie the reason behind the Rules that are in place.

And they have worked no small degree of magic ever since. yet as shown recently, even a small divergence can multiply itself to a point where it all falls to pieces.
I appreciate yours and anyone's understanding in all of it. Yes...I'm on here about everyday, and usually, I'm about the only one to respond to such incursions, be they innocent or intentional.
I always try to do it in a courteous, well intentioned manner. I don't just mash down on the "Report" icon as some have inferred. That is held in reserve if people get "continuously" crappy about it all.

As I said, that's been almost eliminated. Almost. As in any Public Forum, it will never entirely cease. But what we have going on here is a system that does work 99% of the time...and that ain't bad at all.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #44 of 44 Old 02-08-2013, 10:48 AM
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