A 135" Diagonal 2.35:1 White Milliskin over Light Silver Milliskin Spandex Screen Build. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 118 Old 03-05-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

1 screw (2.5") driven in at an angle through the rear edge of the Fame and into the ledge block.

Zat's it.

total build time......7 hours

Thank you for the Kudos. smile.gif

One screw "over" the spandex on the outside rear of the frame?

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

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post #32 of 118 Old 03-05-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

One screw "over" the spandex on the outside rear of the frame?

You had to be there..... wink.gif

The Top edge of the Frame was effectively covered in Spandex. You cannot shoot a screw through Spandex, it will bind up and twist the Fabric immediately. So I simply tugged the rearmost edge of the Spandex toward the fron, exposing the Wood edge along the back, and angled a Screw into / through the Frame and into the solidly mounted "Block" it was resting on. (see image again)

One Screw per location (4) was more than adequate to secure the Screen against anything but a Chain & Winch tugging on it. biggrin.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #33 of 118 Old 03-11-2013, 02:14 PM
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Love the look (glass tv effect) of this screen, so have contacted spandexworld for a price to ship 2 x 3 yard rolls to uk as cant find milliskin in the uk frown.gif
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post #34 of 118 Old 03-12-2013, 06:20 PM
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I have a Epson 3020. I have seen actual lens that can fit over or replace the lens on the projector to get that 2.35 ratio bit I can't find them anywhere. If anyone knows of a way please do let me know. With every possible step of the way to do it , including links.
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post #35 of 118 Old 03-13-2013, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Such Lenses are called "Anamorphic Lens" and a sobering fact is that the least expensive of them cast as much as 3x your Projector's original cost.
http://www.panamorph.com/products/UH480

http://www.garrett-smarthome.com/proddetail.php?prod=F200SYS



Least expensive "New" I could find......
http://www.htmarket.com/ht-uh480.html
combine with this:
http://www.garrett-smarthome.com/proddetail.php?prod=A480KIT-8PROL



However there are a few Bargains to be found:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1419322/optoma-hd80-w-panamorph-uh380-lens
(older model)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panamorph-PSO-U100-Anamorphic-Lenses-with-brackets-/190809919298?pt=US_Projector_Lamps_Components&hash=item2c6d284f42
(wow...this seems to good to be true. Call them to verify, of course)

In truth, you could ditch your current PJ, and but a Panasonic AE8000 for about $1000.00 less than the least expensive option you'll find, and just do away with the need for a A-Lens altogether.

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post #36 of 118 Old 03-13-2013, 05:41 AM
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I believe the point isn't so much achieving the aspect ratio itself, but rather making use of the entire grid of 1080 pixels instead of 800 pixels (sharper picture), which in turn lets you use the all of the lamp capability (which with black bars is wasted as it's blocking light). The lens optically stretches the image to get back to the correct shape (2.35:1). 

 

I agree it's an expensive proposition, gaining that next 10-20% performance for several thousand dollars. Makes perfect sense on a $5k+ projector, but it's dubious on a budget one. And if you already more than enough lumens, and if you sit far enough away that pixel density is sharp enough, then there may be no performance gain. You have to carefully judge the value.

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post #37 of 118 Old 03-13-2013, 05:03 PM
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MM,

Do you still have samples of th emoleskins and milliskin. I am interested in how much lighter the silver miiliskin is compared to silver moleskin.

Thx,

Jason
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post #38 of 118 Old 03-13-2013, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Broadway View Post

MM,

Do you still have samples of th emoleskins and milliskin. I am interested in how much lighter the silver miiliskin is compared to silver moleskin.

Thx,

Jason

No...the White / Gray Moleskin was swapped out in Feb. for another end users needs, and with this project I left what strips of Silver / White Milliskin remaining there on the floor. If you go back and look at my images, there was one decent sized scrap of White Milliskin lying on top the "White over Silver ' Combo, and in another image you can see a pile of "Silver & White" End scraps. But all that stayed behind to.

Might be some more available though before too long.

The Spandex was not stretched that tightly Just snug enough to be certain that all winkles and folds were gone.

From direct observation, the actual shade of the Milliskin Light Silver/Gray is slightly lighter than The Silver Moleskin. But it is the smoother, tighter weave of the Milliskin that is really at work, and most important. Tighter means more reflective, and a more optically (visually) clean surface as well.

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post #39 of 118 Old 03-13-2013, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Broadway View Post

MM,

Do you still have samples of th emoleskins and milliskin. I am interested in how much lighter the silver miiliskin is compared to silver moleskin.

Thx,

Jason

out of all grey mole/milli - skin varieties actually measured (the horror!), Moleskin Matte Silver is in fact the brightest at N6.8 , and Milliskin Light Silver is the darkest at N5.9 on Munsell scale.
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post #40 of 118 Old 03-15-2013, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Bumping this Thread.........

...............because for some reason those who seem to want to discount the viability of this solution "Visually" have never bothered to comment on what is seen within this Thread.

Please remember, DIY Screen making strives to equal or best Mfg Screen applications, and do so for a considerably less expenditure. But baring being "all that", if the end results are still worthy of note and acceptable to the "average DIY'er, then absolutely, the application in question is still worthy of consideration.

And as plainly seen in this case example, that is easily seen to be the case.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #41 of 118 Old 03-15-2013, 02:27 PM
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does moleskin/milliskin white/silver spandex screen has hotspotting issue?
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post #42 of 118 Old 03-15-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

does moleskin/milliskin white/silver spandex screen has hotspotting issue?

It certainly shouldn't, and so far, no one has reported such as happening. On the contrary, if there is any complaints "visually" it how Spandex is a sub-1.0 gain surface.

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post #43 of 118 Old 03-16-2013, 03:12 PM
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These exspensive ways are not what I am speaking of . I have seen 58 mm HD wide angle lens for camcorders used in this method. Ill post a link on a video on youtube once I find maybe some one can figure this out how he did it he doesn't tell too much on how he did it, basically looks like he is showing ox his inexspensive way of doing it.
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post #44 of 118 Old 03-16-2013, 03:23 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivvcW-t50sI&feature=youtube_gdata_player. This is what im talking about if noone has heard of this method then this is a gimmick or this guy is a genius.
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post #45 of 118 Old 03-16-2013, 04:15 PM
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Holy lack of info in the video!
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post #46 of 118 Old 03-16-2013, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptcrzunch View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivvcW-t50sI&feature=youtube_gdata_player. This is what im talking about if noone has heard of this method then this is a gimmick or this guy is a genius.

If I / we / anyone tells you tun screaming the other direction....would you listen?

Obviously....this is neither mainstream or previously discussed. If you want to try it, then do so....and let us in on the results. Either way, right or wrong....someone has to try it.....right? And right or wrong, an accurate report on this Forum can't be considered as being a bad thing, can it? It might sting...but then again...it might be something of note. Lastly, what someone else might "say" can't / won't work you might find does exactly the opposite when actually tried.

It's your call.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #47 of 118 Old 03-17-2013, 02:22 AM
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anyone has tried silver over silver can sharing some impressions & reviews?
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post #48 of 118 Old 03-17-2013, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

anyone has tried silver over silver can sharing some impressions & reviews?

That would be very redundant....and amount to being a "light sponge" almost as much as would be using a solid Black background. But....if you had lumen output to spare, you'd get at least a brighter image using Silver over Silver than you would using Silver over Black.....but not nearly so much as if you used Silver over White.

Using Black at the rear was / is standard when perforated or open weaved AT materials were / are in play, however the more gain the available reflective surface has, the more predominate the difference between the open & closed areas. This results in more visible awareness of screen texture in the least, and the dreaded "Morie" effect at worst. Of course, when using a very slightly stretched White Milliskin, anything "behind" the Spandex has a lessor effect than it would if such material is pulled much tighter.

While some might discount or disagree, when using a combination of White over Silver, the best balance is usually achieved....as been shown here and elsewhere in actual use.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #49 of 118 Old 03-17-2013, 11:21 AM
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So basically can it be done? I live in a area that has no stores like this to buy from. I am not big on ordering online only for the reason, that i dont want to end up getting the wrong thing only to have to send it back. I am completely new to doing the whole home theater thing. I am also wondering if this method would get rid of letter box top and bottom black bars or if this is only for 16.9 ratio movies to stretch the image to a 2.35?
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post #50 of 118 Old 03-18-2013, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cptcrzunch View Post

So basically can it be done? I live in a area that has no stores like this to buy from. I am not big on ordering online only for the reason, that i dont want to end up getting the wrong thing only to have to send it back. I am completely new to doing the whole home theater thing. I am also wondering if this method would get rid of letter box top and bottom black bars or if this is only for 16.9 ratio movies to stretch the image to a 2.35?

I advise against it....but your the one who must take what amounts to a leap of faith.

That sort of lens is only intended to covert 16:9 to 2.35:1 Play a 2.35:1 movie and you will have to be able to move the lens away from the PJ. And almost assuredly re-adjust both Zoom and Focus. How easy that would be...or even if possible depends upon the PJ used and you haven't related that info.

No....it all seems to "iffy" if not down right wholly inadvisable.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #51 of 118 Old 03-18-2013, 07:50 AM
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its a epson 3020
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post #52 of 118 Old 03-18-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Bumping this Thread.........

...............because for some reason those who seem to want to discount the viability of this solution "Visually" have never bothered to comment on what is seen within this Thread.

Please remember, DIY Screen making strives to equal or best Mfg Screen applications, and do so for a considerably less expenditure. But baring being "all that", if the end results are still worthy of note and acceptable to the "average DIY'er, then absolutely, the application in question is still worthy of consideration.

And as plainly seen in this case example, that is easily seen to be the case.

What is it that we see in this example? I'm excited to see what milliskin can do because I have some coming. But not sure what this thread proves. Could you post the PJ settings and maybe some comparison pictures. Some that are straight on would be helpful. The angle you took these pictures at kinda trips me out. Did you ever try the silver over white and take some pictures, especially with dark scenes...? When I get my milliskin sample I'll be comparing it to a number of materials, but not sure I should post any pictures. I'm really wondering if milliskin isn't the same product I've been using from Fabric Land in Canada. It's also 20% spandex and very smooth surface.
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post #53 of 118 Old 03-18-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

What is it that we see in this example?

To me and the other member it was more obvious in person than the Screenies show. A very bright, vibrant image. Colors that do not appear shifted or off. Plenty of detail and sharpness. That despite the obvious specifications:

To my recollection, the Screen's actual "outside" Frame dimension was 130.5" x 56". The Spandex was wrapped completely over the outside edges of the fram]e. That actually makes the image as shown almost 143" diagonal, not the stated 135"er of the Thread Title. But the title does say what the end measurement of the Screen's diagonal size will be after the Trim is applied.(...inside dimensions 123" x 53" ) In the shown images, the image is zoomed out to fill every wee bit of real estate.

Temporary throw was at 15'. If the White / Light Silver Milliskin is 0.9 gain, then the foot lamberts would measure approx 15 fl.
0.8 gain? 13 fl. That latter level is the absolute bottom end of acceptable reflectivity for any screen that wants to be considered dynamic and vibrant....and that's "in the dark"

While not having access to equipment to make my own exacting measurements, I can relate from experience that the surface is NOT as low as 0.8 gain

As claimed, the surface texture was / is completely undetectable from just inches away.
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I'm excited to see what milliskin can do because I have some coming. But not sure what this thread proves.

Than you miss the biggest points concerning how "normal" DIY'ers share info. They don't publish graphs....the don't post a White paper. The talk about what they choose, how they put it together, how happy (...or not...) they are about the end results, and lastly...if they have the camera and the skill set to know how to take shots that do in fact represent what they themselves see to be happening, then those shots are the final push many aspiring DIY'er need to have both the confidence needed to make a decision, and gain the impetus to get'ter dun. The posted results should be more than encouraging enough for someone considering White over Silver Milliskin Spandex screens that fall between 84" and 120" diagonal. The one above looks great at 140"+

Consider the normal arguments against screen shots. much is said....but darn...even the naysayers use those same shots to tout how good their set up is. go figure. When an Image is dim, if a camera compensates enough to raise brightness so that the image photographs better, the usual end results are blown out whites and little shadow detail. However if a image is properly metered and exposed, suddenly there is a photo replica of what the eye sees. Or....it shouldn't be posted, as good or bad, it's misleading.

Over the years, taking accurate shots was all DIY'er had to strut their stuff. It still is the primary application for doing so, but many are clueless as to what /how to do it.

That IS changing....and you can tell by looking at the "Screen Shot Wars" threads. Use to was...only the SLR & DSLR crowd w/Mfg Screens could claim they had it down pat...and Boy... ya better not tell them THEIR shots were worthless or misleading !! eek.gif

No...the real reasons behind Screenie haters are usually hidden from view. Jealousy....PO'edness because a DIY'er is showing such excellent results for little expenditure. Someone determined to find a way to dispute shown results. Etc, etc, etc.
But when time after time, one after another, good ol' basic Members get even the most basic instructions, and have decent DIY Screen at hand...the there comes the eye candy....and the wars are waged anew.

It is my experience understanding that yes...a camera can distort reality if improperly used. But I also know for certain that if someone knows how to use a Camera, and if the screen itself doesn't present hurdles such as undue hot spotting, gross retro-reflectivity, producing obvious color pushes, or is too dull / dim, that very accurate, exacting images can be had. Without effective post processing...a hideous taboo on this Forum...abysmal screen performance cannot be shown as being suddenly acceptable by any stretch. One can make things look "better". But near perfection does not come from a Camera suddenly turning a Pigs Ear into a Silk Purse. It just cannot be done, and those who insist it can...? Well I can't remember anyone actually going so far as to show that as being possible. If a shot has exacting colors, no crushing of detail...or whites...or Blacks...and shows fine shadows and no hot spotting, then it's almost assuredly a excellent image reproduction of an excellent source.

I'm going "there" because the shots I hurriedly took while getting ready to depart were nothing staged or optimized. They look very good for their being "Point & Shoot" in the real sense. That only happens when the Camera doesn't "have to" work hard. Everything within the captured frame is balanced.
Quote:
Could you post the PJ settings and maybe some comparison pictures. Some that are straight on would be helpful.

Member Monumentally will have to take up that request as I'm almost 4 hours away. In as much as he's working feverishly to complete what is obviously a very raw, still being framed Theater, I cannot say at present when that will occur. I do know that after a weekend of movies spent lounging on Boxes and lawn chairs, the Screen was taken down and moved to a protected location and covered in Cloth.
Quote:
The angle you took these pictures at kinda trips me out.

Straight on is easy...everyone does that...but if I did them like that, the very width of the screen would prevent me from capturing the entire surface AND showing the degree of reflected light present in the room. I'd like to point out that a 0.8 - 0.9 gain screen just doesn't reflect light very well...it absorbs light. So what does the shots showing Stud faces lighting up tell one?
Quote:
Did you ever try the silver over white and take some pictures, especially with dark scenes...?

Wish I could'a, but as I said, I barely had time to pop in a DVD and get the ones I did. Maybe when I get back up there to go huntin' some long horned Wood Rats. biggrin.gif
Quote:
When I get my milliskin sample I'll be comparing it to a number of materials, but not sure I should post any pictures. I'm really wondering if milliskin isn't the same product I've been using from Fabric Land in Canada. It's also 20% spandex and very smooth surface.

It sounds close enough that absolutely you should. Even if there are slight differences, the differences you observe between Mole and Milli would be valuable input. Yeah, without it being exactly the same material, someone can (...and probably will....) state that the results are not indicative of acceptable results or precise enough to warrant suggesting such material to a DIY'er. That's bunk to the Nth Degree. The real concern is as to if the example is in fact done in the same manner. If so, I'll have no doubts about how it was done, and or why. You want to know...and others would like to see comments coming from someone with actual experience using a similar material in a real world test.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #54 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 07:44 AM
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sorry I realized I never replied to this thread initially... the screen is currently off the wall and put up and out of the way as I just got the drywall hung last weekend. I will take some pics of how we are attaching the screen to the wall in the next couple of days now that the wall is hung. and it will make more sense. The only thing I realized in hindsight is how we originally planned on attaching the screen at the top. We had it screwed in but had to reach up into the open tray to run the screw gun (I had to hold the screen up really close to the bottom of the tray.) I realized when I was taking it down that I would not have this ability once the drywall was hung and the tray was no longer open so I am currently devising plan B on how to secure the top and still be able to remove the screen. I am thinking about notching the top of the screen and screwing some kind of bracket to the attachment blocks on the wall so the screen would "slide" onto the brackets and still be secure at the top and still allow me to screw it at the bottom. Sorry if this is vague, once I get pics it'll make sense.

I never really got to watch anymore movies, I was too worried about the screen and projector getting all dusty in the still to be constructed area. HOPEFULLY, I will get the mud, tape and paint done in the next couple of weeks and be able to rehang the screen and trim it out. I have 0 prior experience when it comes to projectors screens so this was all new to me but I will say I thought it looked awesome when we fired it up in the original pictures.

Someone asked about speakers behind the screen. Originally I was going to place the center and both fronts behind it but decided against that. Now I just have my center channel resting on a shelf in the center of the screen. The sides will be on the outside of the screen now.
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post #55 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi!

Ya know.....installing a couple Hangman Brackets to the rear side of the Frame, and the opposing wall surface should do it all quite nicely....and simply. The hanging method we used was only a temporary solution at best so we could shoot an image when we were done, and would have needed refinement in any case.

Whatever is done, you want to keep the distance between the front face of the center speaker and the inside surface of the Spandex at an absolute minimum like we managed to do, so factor that in to whatever plans you make.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #56 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 08:16 AM
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Mine is an inch smaller smile.gif






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post #57 of 118 Old 07-06-2013, 09:33 AM
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PLEASE bring this back from the dead as I would like to see how the trim out of the screen and the finished look of the whole room is. If you look at my fledgling posts into this site you will see that I am up to nearly the type of build although I have my home being built and I'm merely ducking in here and there to add components. MM has guided me to the promised land of DIY spandex screen which after much reading here I believe will be the best option for me. After and over sized screen build with perhaps silver over white (?) (please don't yell at me MM I am thinking out loud to see if that would be at all a good idea to stave off ambient) how would you attach the black velvet wrapped MDF? Also, wrapping a full trim piece of it and then miter cutting the edges or cut and delicately wrap the angles? Thanks!
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post #58 of 118 Old 07-06-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Watch this space......wantamancave

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post #59 of 118 Old 07-06-2013, 02:25 PM
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I've subscribed to the black velvet wrapped frame tutorial and that has cleared a lot up. I think I will attempt to frame around the screen and 'sleeve' it in.
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post #60 of 118 Old 07-08-2013, 06:26 AM
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Here are a couple really crappy screenshots while watching the fights this weekend... I will try to get some more tonight with the "real camera" and post them here



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