Best Screen Option for under $200 for this room - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-16-2013, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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ok, so this is my first go around for a projector. I am on a budget so I'm looking at the epson 8350 which amazon has for 1150. I'm trying to make it work in this room as I have a perfect wall for a large screen. Due to dual ceiling fans, throw distance will have to be around 22'. I measured and can fit a 135" screen in 1.85:1 on the wall.


The obvious problem here is that I need to be able to view it in the daytime, and the skylights in the picture make it pretty hard to control the ambient light. I understand that the picture quality will be affected, but as you can see from the toys laying around, it would be mostly kids shows during the day. What I'm looking for is the best DIY screen option as I can't spend $1300 on a screen that size right now. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I read one article on using bright white seamless camera paper, but I'm a little skeptical?
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-16-2013, 11:12 AM
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Hi, welcome on board to the AVS DIY Screen Forum, home of the much dreaded "Reality Check".eek.gif

Now hunker down and listen to reason.

First off...forget 22' of throw. Go there and you can kiss ambient light viewing goodbye. Maybe even a decent image. redface.gif

In such virtually untenable instances such as these, if design and common sense prevail, insignificant items such as Fan height and position are relegated below Projector positioning in importance.

Viewing you image, it appears that the Fans are up fairly high. If so, then positioning the 8350 ideally can turn the situation around 180 degrees from "Cr_p"

Here's the skinny: cool.gif

At 22' @ 135" diagonal, the 8350 will only provide 13 fl into a 1.4 gain surface. Brother, that's too dim to offset incoming ambient light.Think that's bad? Hmmm. At 1.0 gain it's a paltry 9 fls. Sheesh, that's a Night Light level compared to what you want for anything remotely dynamic looking.

At the opposite end, if you place the PJ at 14', you get 23 fl. Yeah. That's where you want to be.

Shorter Drop poles on one - both Fans usually is the easiest solution. And worthy of the effort if it winds up giving you your coveted 135"er in a room that was decidedly not designed to harbor one.

We/you have to square away this little issue before any recommendation can proceed.

What say you?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #3 of 16 Old 02-16-2013, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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If I place the 8350 on about a 2-3' drop pipe, I can squeeze the mount in between the 2 fans at around 11.5-12'. By looking at the epson image size calculator, that leaves me at a measly 120", but if that's where I have to be to see it at all, it's a huge improvement over the 52" that looks like a 27" hung on that wall. At that distance, is there a cheap screen material/paint that will counteract my ambient light issues?
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-16-2013, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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In addition, the fans are not on pipes and are direct mounted to the 12"x30" solid redwood beam at the peak of the vaulted ceiling. Moving them is not really possible as the wiring is bored through this beam. I would, however, be able to get it back to 14' if I was able to get a mount that was solid enough to place a 2' horizontal bar and a 90 on it to go down far enough to clear the fan blades. Thoughts on this as well?
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-16-2013, 02:53 PM
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I've tried a Zig-Zaggy affair like that before. It's pretty silly looking.

No, if you can spot the PJ so that the Lens Face is at 12' from the screen surface, you would be golden. If anything, reducing screen size and throw distance are the two most important considerations as far as maximizing your PJ's potential.

Moving on....no...don't expect any material or paint compound to come in as "Cheap". Inexpensive? Absolutely. A high performance DIY paint application that would have both 1.2+ gain and also have significant ambient light resistance would cost about $70.00 to assemble. A good Electric HVLP Gun? $65.00. Various other sundry items? $40-50.00 (...includes Trim) You'd still be under $200.00. Waddya want fer nutin'?

120" is respectably large. And if this project is able to move ahead as a "Screen Spray Painted onto Drywall" application, your budget limitation will be observed.

Until you can spring for one of the newer Epsons (5020) or substitute the 8350 for a Panny PT- AR100U (...that would be a "best choice"**...) the suggested mounting location / screen size is the only solution the 8350 can work with and still purport to give you the performance you need.

**
Consider the Panny PT- AR100U. At 12' with a 122" - 1.3 gain screen you'd top out at 39 fl. That's high enough to allow you to reduce the Screen's gain to 1.0 and still have 30 fl of reflected brightness. If you at least try to keep directed light off a screen that has a dark Gray hue "AND" a minimum of 1.0 gain, your worries and concerns are over.

Better to pull back and save up another $150 and grab a well proven PJ with 28oo lumens and the same Focal length as the 8350, than to try to live with the compromises the 8350 will demand.

And as you might already, know, I am / have been a prolific user of the 8350. So if I take on a stance stating that it would not be the wisest choice, you can be sure it's because I know something about it.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-16-2013, 06:09 PM
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Miss man has the experience an know-how, but I pretty much agree with him in all of my humble "newbyness".

Better to have a machine capable of mucho lumens and working around a BRIGHT image than coming up short and looking for a solution that is either very onerous, or worse, unattainable.

I picked up the AR 100 and viewed it as, at worst, my first PJ that I can eventually upgrade from, or, something I can own till it breaks and upgrade from.

One thing I knew for sure: I wasn't going to be the guy that had the projector where people said: "yeah, that's nice, but that's (dimness) the problem with projectors".

Good luck!

James

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post #7 of 16 Old 02-17-2013, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Im not opposed to the panny and will highly consider it. I was sort of turned off by that one by the 3000 hr bulb life and the cost of a new bulb.

Either way, do you have a recommended paint mix for my scenario? I looked at silver but its not good for ambient light.
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-17-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysutimmah View Post

Im not opposed to the panny and will highly consider it. I was sort of turned off by that one by the 3000 hr bulb life and the cost of a new bulb.

Either way, do you have a recommended paint mix for my scenario? I looked at silver but its not good for ambient light.

Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 You can be assured you will have a 122" screen that will perform well under pretty high ambient light conditions. If fact, a Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 even more so, but that degree of dark Silver/Gray especially demands the optimization of the PJ Throw / Screen size scenario. And as the darkness of any SF mix goes deeper, the Gain does as well. Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 is approx 1.0

There are no magic bullets in all of this. A Mfg Screen that size that would do what we propose to do with paint cost $3,500+ . There's that.
You buy....install, and start watching. But watching can be difficult while also wiping tears from your eyes over the drop in your Bank account. There is "definitely" that!

Paint that can do all the above requires a nearly perfect application. Fortunately, the inexpensive Electric HVLP Guns available are not a severe hindrance, cost wise. But they do cost...and they "are" required. So there is all that.

Spraying inside does require some inexpensive masking with Plastic...and of course a Respirator Mask. But the actual art of spraying with the type paint and the type Gun comes easily.

Easy alternative to the above DIY Screen.? If you use the Panny, at the suggested throw, you could simply use a moderate Flat Gray "rolled" directly on the wall, which is already "Primed White" and sanded, then you can get what many find entirely acceptable results.

Personally speaking, my involvement with DIY has never been based on "acceptable results". But that's me. And everyone should have an alternative.....if one is available.

In your case, without the Lumens and Focal length considerations outlined, even the advanced DIY applications would fail to be "Exemplary" performers in high ambient light. So...to even remotely consider a "Basic & easy" DIY application, you have to accept your restrictions as far as equipment and positioning.

Don't shoot me....I'm just the messenger. At least you do have viable options you can consider. Sadly, many do not, and even more tragically, they often don't find out or realize such until they have spent time and money.

See how fortunate you are? wink.gif


BTW, I will try to get you a link for some really effective, roll down "Sliding Track"style Blinds made especially for deeply recessed Skylights like yours. If the Skylight closest to the left of the screen was covered just 50% down, the difference in how much actual sunlight could strike the Screen Wall would be reduced tremendously, and that would be quite an improvement and assist in your having a really quality image, even at 12:00 Noon on a sunny day. Then again, if such Blinds were in place, then if "You" wanted to view something at such a time, and there was no "getting by quite nicely" involved, but rather for "Dark Room" excellence, just the employ of such Blinds would allow such to happen. I'm not talking about total darkness...not even greatly subdued lighting. It's all about the difference in ambient light Foot Candles present, and how they stack up against directed lumen output on a given surface. Sunbeams are the bane of "any" display. As are "directed" Incandescent, Florescent. or Halogen lights. Judicious lighting design / room color selection is usually all it takes to allow people to use less severe criteria as far as selecting equipment. When such cannot be accommodated, well.....there's solutions such has been offered to you to consider.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #9 of 16 Old 02-17-2013, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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That would be great. So I will try the Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 and the Panny at 12' throw.

If you could get me that link, It's be appreciated. I've tried to find something like you are saying with no luck.

Thanks again for all the help. I will send pictures once it is up and running.
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-19-2013, 04:06 PM
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Sorry...not to hijack but is the AR100 really THAT much stronger than the 8350 in terms of light output? The 8350 has NEVER been what I would call "dim".

MM you are an angel in the DIY section. A basic search could have shown that 22' throw is crazy, yet you come in with very real, honest, professional advice. Thank you.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

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post #11 of 16 Old 02-19-2013, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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To clarify for conspiracy, i did do a search but i wanted an answer from someone who knew what they were talking about like MM, not someone who put one projector in their house and called themselves a pro.

And to further clarify, im not saying that conspiracy knows nothing. Im saying that based on what i read, MM did so i realky appreciate his advice.

I am highly considering the AR100 due to the recommendation based on the amount of ambient light

One other quick question. My wife ia a little worried about me spraying in the room and getting it on the carpet. Is there a substrate that you suggest that is thin and can be sprayed in the driveway then hung on the wall?
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post #12 of 16 Old 02-20-2013, 08:31 AM
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I hear you. I've been lurking for over a year and still consider myself a noob.

Thing is...you can do just that. From my experience in seeing others "aha moments" it all came from them getting their hands dirty. You can lurk and research until you start chasing your own tail, I am like that, but eventually you're going to have to get started. Experience is the best teacher. One of the best things about DIY is that, for the most part, its inexpensive enough that if you screw up its ok. Just don't get caught up with being perfect so much that it prevents you from "doing it yourself".

As for substrate, with the size you're looking for my guess would be trying to find a dealer that can ship gatorfoam. Its really light so you could paint in the garage or driveway, but you'll have to worry about wind, dust, etc. Probably better to plan ahead, get some drop cloth, tape off a good portion of the wall and paint in the room with the board already hung.

If you end up going with the panny and can position it closer...this is a good thread to look at. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1458217/a-135-diagonal-2-35-1-white-milliskin-over-light-silver-milliskin-spandex-screen-build

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post #13 of 16 Old 02-21-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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MM, one other quick question. If I choose to spray directly on the wall, how far is the overspray? What is a good area to plastic off to make sure I don't have metallic speckle carpeting?
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post #14 of 16 Old 02-21-2013, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysutimmah View Post

MM, one other quick question. If I choose to spray directly on the wall, how far is the overspray? What is a good area to plastic off to make sure I don't have metallic speckle carpeting?

4' to each side (...or wrapped onto adjoining walls...) and up to and across the ceiling above the screen out to 4'

For the Floor, simply purchase a 2 mil 9' x 12' Sheet of Plastic at HD ($3.99) and lay that out so the depth is 9' and the width across / under the Screen is 12'. Tape the leading edge under the Screen onto the base Board of the Screen wall.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #15 of 16 Old 02-22-2013, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you recommend priming the wall with kilz-2 prior to spraying the silverfire mix?
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post #16 of 16 Old 02-22-2013, 07:03 PM
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Yes....always.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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