Round 1 didn't go so well. need help fixing it or help with round 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 02-20-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My first attempt to build a frame seems to have not gone well. I attempted to build a 90” 16:9 screen using 1x4x96 boards I got from Home Depot, unsure what type of wood they were. I cut the 2 long pieces at around 78 and 7/16”. I also cut 3 short boards (one for each edge and a middle cross brace) at 44 and 1/8”. I used some metal l brackets to hold it all together. Unfortunately, while I was checking for warp along the length of the boards, I failed to notice one of my long boards was warped along the short edge. Because I only put braces on the back side, and because the of the way I attached the boards it makes some of the short boards stick up in front of the long boards, which I believe would create noticeable marks/seems/wrinkles once the black out cloth is stretch across the frame. I tried my best to correct these issues with some different L brackets on the inside of each corner, but quickly realized if these were not screwed in precisely in the center of the board and perfectly straight that the screws would split the wood. I’m guessing I should have predrilled the holes for these screws to prevent that, but I am a new homeowner with limited tools(no drill bits at the moment) and even more limited experience working with wood. One other mistake I made, was using a calculator to determine the dimensions of the frame. From reading some other posts I realize now that since I already have the projector it makes more sense to measure the projected image and build the screen to those dimensions due to variations in projectors not all producing he exact same size image. One other concern I have, I will be using this in the basement of my bi-level home. The basement has a railing/shelf about half way up the wall going around most of the basement(although not on the wall where my screen will be. The problem this causes is I currently have my projector sitting on a stand which allows me to project an 86” image. But if I ever decide to ceiling mount, the railing would not be in the way anymore, which gives me more space and allows me to project a 90-92” image. So I was planning to build the screen for the bigger image and just deal with it while I am projecting he smaller image on it. Is this dumb? Should I just build for the image I can project now, and live with it?

One idea I was considering was getting a thin(3/16 or 1/8th”) piece of Masonite and attaching that to the current frame to provide a smooth surface to stretch the BOC over. I am not sure how the imperfections in the frame will affect this type of board though, maybe they would cause the Masonite to warp some in those spots, or have some other noticeable negative impact. Also I am unsure the best route to attach the Masonite to the frame. Is wood glue enough to keep it in place?

I only have about $10-15 total cost in the wood for this frame, so if need be, I am willing to scrap my first attempt and try again. I know a lot of the DIY screen guides I have seen on here and other sites often use triangle pieces of plywood at the corners rather than metal L brackets to keep the frame square. With my limited tools, I opted to not go this route as I didn’t have an easy way to cut the plywood. But I have recently learned that Home Depot will do some cuts for me, so the plywood option is a possibility for round 2. My other concern with the plywood is how it will affect the black out cloth as it is stretched, since some of the cloth will be stapled to the plywood and some directly to the frame. At the point where the plywood drops off to meet the frame I was worried this would create a crease in the cloth. But a lot of people seem to use this route, so I assume it’s not too difficult to stretch out that possible crease?

Even if I am able to get a nice true rectangle on this attempt, would it still make sense to use something like Masonite or MDF across the front face? Or is that a waste? I am not too concerned with the weight it would add, as this screen should be a permanent fixture on the wall in my basement.

My girlfriend likes the idea of putting up some movie style curtains around the frame to make it look more like a movie theater, and I am fine with that. But I noticed a lot of people use a black border around their frames, which from what I read can help to improve the look of the image for some technical reason that is beyond my means of comprehension lol. If this black border is beneficial, does that mean I need to make my frame a few inches wider t0 accommodate the border?

Thanks!
mike208 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 02-20-2013, 02:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Congrats on your first build! Great thing about DIY is you live, and hopefully learn, and you're only out $15 in wood.

I don't have all the answers but...
If you want to save yourself a lot of hassle in the frame, get good wood. I used 1x3 pine and my frame is slightly warped...better to go with poplar or the kiln dried stuff. If weight isn't an issue go for the 2x4...atleast you know you're not going to warp it when stretching the BOC.

As far as your railing goes...I'd build the screen for the size that it will be soon. Dont go 86" if you're going to get a ceiling mount in the next month or so...build it bigger just live with the extra screen for now. As a beginner it probably wont bother you theres extra, unless you're a born perfectionist.

Sounds like your girlfriend is supportive, good job, thats half the battle. The easiest way to get that border is to build your screen the size you want to project then to butt the frame up against it after wrapping in velvet (or velvetish material). The reason, I think, is that velvet doesnt reflect any of the light that might spill over the screen back to you...so it frames the picture. The curtains would just be for looks mostly.

If you build a good frame there is no need to put the plywood up under the BOC.

If you can buy a mitre box with saw (like $10) it will help you get the 45 degree angles so you can get your rectangle...trying to butt the corners together perfectly is a waste of time, i know from experience.

Good luck.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 02-20-2013, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My home depot doesn't seem to advertise what type of wood they have. I know they had some that was like 98 cents for a 1x4x96, and then the stuff I got was like 3 bucks for the same size. I didn't see anything better then that. I actually have some 2x4's left over from demo'ing a closet in the basement that I could possibly use. I would just have to cut them by hand since the only circular saw I have attaches to my drill and can only go up to 1 inch depth. But I do have a hand saw, so I could do it. Or I could buy some new 2x4's and have home depot cut them for me. I was looking at the miter boxes, they seem pretty cheap, so I can probably pick one up. My dad had told me butting the flat edges would be fine, but yeah it didn't work so well for me, lol.

I guess the only concern with the weight of 2x4's is how to hang the screen. Honestly I hadn't even given it that much thought when building the original screen.

Also if I go with 2x4's does it matter what type of wood to get? I am looking online and there are many options.

If I go with 2x4's and use the miter box to miter the edges together do I still need the plywood for the corners to hold them together or is there a better option?
mike208 is offline  
post #4 of 24 Old 02-20-2013, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Upon rereading the guide from engadget I see that they inset the plywood triangles and stapled all along the frame, not onto the plywood. That makes sense. I missed that
mike208 is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 02-21-2013, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is pressure treated wood not good to use for the frame? I saw some great looking stuff at home depot tonight but it was pressure treated I think and most places I have seen have said to use kiln dried wood.
mike208 is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 02-21-2013, 09:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
No, you don't want to use pressure treated lumber. You should use 2X3's from Home Depot. 2X4's are overkill, and 2X3's will be lighter weight also. Just tell the guy at Home Depot you want 2X3 construction studs. I'm sure he'd help you pick out good ones if you ask nice. wink.gif If you mitre the corners at 45 degrees, and use glue and screws for the corners, I see no need for the plywood at the corners. If you really want to play it safe against future warpage, once the frame is all done, prime all sides and edges with a latex primer.
Jim McC is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 02-22-2013, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK so my FIL has offered to help me build the new frame since I appear to be out of my element. He is recommending 2x2s with mitered corners. Any reason not to use a 2x2 andbusebthe 2x3s or 1x4s already mentioned?
mike208 is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 02-22-2013, 10:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
2x2 would work, but if you're stretching BOC it requires quite a bit of pull, you might end up warping the frame during stretching. I think ideally, you'd use the thickest wood that you can given the mounting options and your budget.

To join your corners you'll want to use wood glue/some bonding, and maybe drive a screw into it from each side. The 2x2 will be more likely to split with two screws in it. OR you could use metal L and T brackets. Pretty much just make sure the corners and middle post, if you use one, are secure.

Once the frame is done you can just staple the BOC to the backside...make sure you have enough you can pull it around the frame. You want to pull it as tight as possible, then cut any excess. I bought an electric staple gun from target for 19.99 and it worked amazingly.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 02-22-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a hand powered staple gun. Hopefully it won't kill my hand Lol. I was thinking the same thing about the 2x2s possibly warping. Definitely going to miter the corners this time and I already bought some wood glue. I didn't like the way the L brackets worked the first time which is why I was thinking of using the plywood triangles at the corners this time.

Just for my information why would I not want to use pressure treated wood for the frame?
mike208 is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 02-22-2013, 11:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I don't know that theres an issue with pressure treated, but I know its more expensive. I am a wood newb...but I dont think pressure treating makes the wood stronger, just makes it resist moisture.

The hand stapler will kill your hands, just stretching the BOC is going to kill your hands. Get a cheap electric staple gun or have someone else do the hand power stapling while you're stretching. I did all mine by myself...I can't imagine having to pinch the BOC and pull AND force a staple gun.

My hands hurt for two days after stretching the BOC.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 02-22-2013, 05:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
First off, pressure treated lumber should not be used indoors except for concrete floors sole plates. Second, pressure treated lumber is still wet in the store. When it dries out it will shrink and possibly warp. Again, buy 2X3 construction studs. I would not use 2X2's, they tend to warp like crazy.
Jim McC is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 02-23-2013, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Alright, thanks everyone. I went with the 2x3 construction studs.

Whats the best way to put this thing together? I am going to miter the corners together. Should I use L brackets to hold the pieces together, run a screw in from the edge through one board and into another at the corners, the triangle pieces of plywood as seen on the engadget guide or something else? Either way should I also use wood glue on the mitered corners?

Also how do you go about hanging these things one they are built? I picked thishttp://www.lowes.com/pd_56378-37672-122373_4294710790__?productId=3058195&Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_avg_rating|1&facetInfo= at lowes. Says its good for 200 pounds. I could always use 2 if needed. I figured at 18 inches I can probably only get 1 screw into a stud, so the other 2 or 3 would just use the drywall anchors.
Thanks again for all your help
mike208 is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 02-24-2013, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
MM helped someone with a screen in this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1458217/a-135-diagonal-2-35-1-white-milliskin-over-light-silver-milliskin-spandex-screen-build

That screen is a lot bigger that what you're looking to do, but he used glue and screws to hold the frame together. With the thicker wood, the L and T brackets should do the trick so really its what you want to do. The method used in thread is very easy to follow and looks very simple.

I used almost the same exact thing to hang my screen, but I cut it in half. I mounted my screen on top of extra 1x3 to bring it away from the wall and allow HDMI cord behind the screen. I mounted the 1x3 into the studs then put the French cleat ontop of it. My screen is 110 but with weaker wood, overall I'd guess only about 8 very awkward pounds.

You're getting close. I hope you got the electric stapler. Get to work, I want to see somepics later today. smile.gif

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 02-24-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks again. I got all my pieces cut to length and mitered, but I did make a mistake somewhere. Again I am new to working with wood, and I think when I was cutting 1 or 2 of the miters that I may have had a board to 2 raised up a little, not sitting flat in the miter box. So at least one of the cuts is not completely straight, it has an angle to it itself. I'm hoping I am explaining that well enough. The 45 degree angle itself looks to be 45 degrees, but since it is not flat it leaves a gap on one side of the mate, and I believe is giving me difficulties making everything square. I figure I can either get a new board and redo the cuts correctly, or I can try to sand the cut down until it is flat.

As for the french cleat they had a 6 inch and a 18 inch version. I went with the 18" because I knew my screen would be a little heavier then normal since I used the 2x3's, and I would only hit 1 stud, so I wanted to make sure it would support the weight. I don't need to run anything behind my screen(wires or whatever)but I do want to add the black velvet frame as well as put up some curtains to make it look more like a movie theater. I don't think the black frame would make much of a difference. But with the curtains, they tend to stick off the wall by a good 4-6 inches, right? Would it be beneficial to to mount my screen slightly off the wall like you did or no?
mike208 is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 02-24-2013, 09:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Mounting off the wall is generally done to make the screen look like its floating off the wall. If you're going to add curtains to either side you're going to be giving up that look as long as the curtains are "in front" of the screen.

As for the wood you cut...jst buy a new piece of wood and recut it. the time spent sanding it down is not time well spent.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 02-24-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Made a trip to home depot. All their wood was warped and twisted. So I either have to make do with what I got or wait till I can make a trip to lowes. Now that I got a squar eon the thing, it doesn't look terrible. A couple of gaps, not sure how big of a deal they are or will be. Here are some pics.





Still trying to decide the best way to put it together. It's currently laid out on the floor in the garage. With it laid down like that my drill is too large(hits on the floor)to get a straight hole/screw in through the mitered corners(like in the link you posted). I still have the L brackets from my original attempt. I could put those on, then stand it up and put the screws through the corners. But I am worried that if I do that, that it won't fit together properly, since the brackets might try to hold it as it is now with those 2 slight gaps, and then the new screws might not be able to pull those gaps closed.

Oh and I forgot to mention before. Yes I did get an electric staple gun.
mike208 is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 02-24-2013, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
That top pic of the gap is going to be a problem. If you don't recut that or slide in a thin wedge to fill that gap, the wood may pull in as you tighten the screws. Then it won't be square.

All you have to do is prop up each of the 4 corners with a scrap piece of lumber. Then it will be high enough for your drill to work properly. I would put the metal braces on before screwing the corners together. Before you drive the 2 screws in each corner, pre-drill the lumber with a drill bit slightly thinner than the screw. Then glue the corner pieces up and drive screws in.
Jim McC is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 02-24-2013, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I did a little sanding on the 2 gapped pieces and fixed them some. Might be able to get it a little better once my battery recharges. Thanks for the input.

Hopefully last question, lol. When I start stapling the BOC is it best to staple all of one side(with a helper keeping it pulled taught, then stapling the other side, and so on. Or is the diamond, alternating sides method better?
mike208 is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 02-24-2013, 09:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jim McC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oconomowoc, WI.
Posts: 5,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 32
The alternating method is better.
Jim McC is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 02-25-2013, 06:09 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,940
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

The alternating method is better.

That's correct, and more specifically, one person can do the job if they follow the diagram below:




The numbered sequence represents starting at the center on each side, then moving in equal steps outward to the corners. The Red numbers are actually located at the extreme corners.


PS.
The Frame as shown is simply a visual representation, and not an actual suggestion.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #21 of 24 Old 02-25-2013, 09:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Looks like you're on the way. Keep it up and remember to sneak out of the dungeon once youre done to share some pics.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 02-25-2013, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mike208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks. Since it is only(lol) a 90" screen and since I used 2x3's, will one center brace be enough? Or should I brace the sides somehow? And also, is there a set amount of staples per inch, or what have you when stapling the blackout cloth?
mike208 is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 02-25-2013, 01:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
The center brace should be enough imo.

I put a roughly every half inch/inch on mine, probably overkill.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 02-25-2013, 07:34 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,940
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

The center brace should be enough imo.

I put a roughly every half inch/inch on mine, probably overkill.

Depends on the amount of stretching you need to / actually do.

The closer the Staples are, the less deformation and potential folds will develop at the tautness increases. Spandex isn't BOC, and it will react to uneven stretching.

Personally speaking from experience, the use of a second center support is best so it helps straighten the frame as well as stiffens the frame against warping, more than it is needed to offset the lower levels of pressure even tightly stretched Spandex creates. Install each center support 1/3 pf the way in toward center from each side.

Also, use the 2x side of the 2x3 as your leading edge of the Frame. That will allow your "center supports" to lie recessed if they are installed flush to the back edge of the Frame and mounted "3x Flat side" facing forward.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off