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post #31 of 48 Old 03-27-2013, 10:38 AM
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Ok, back on topic! lol

I received my fabric today. The "zinc blackout fabric" from Dazien. It is HUGE! smile.gif ( 118in x 2 yards) The zinc color actually looks promising, it is a light grey... lighter than the grey I have on my current screen, but I wanted to go lighter anyway because I am moving the projector back. I realize there are pros and cons to going bigger, and that will require better light control. In my setup, I am willing to do this. In my "living room" I was not.

I didn't pay the extra to have it rolled when shipped, but it was so big and thick, the folds were not sharp... More like how ribbon candy is folded over. I can see no noticeable creases, but I opened it and rolled it anyway here at my home for good measure.

So now I have everything I need to start. I am not sure when I can work on it (I know people may be waiting for to see if I fail before they try lol) but I have a scheduled "movie night" tonight and tomorrow, so I really can't go messing with anything right now. The screen will be too big to store anywhere OTHER than where it needs to go.

The cost so far is:
Frame wood ~$20
Screen material ~$37 including shipping. (they had a "scrap" big enough, so I didn't have to pay the "cut" price. Saved me a couple bucks a yard I think?
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post #32 of 48 Old 03-27-2013, 11:08 AM
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I don't see any of the necessary Bracing Hardware on that expense list. And if you managed to get adequate quality & quantity of Clear, straight lumber in the lengths needed to build a sufficiently sturdy Frame for just $20.00, you have accomplished something no one else has, of that I'm certain.

And now it seems your going to try to do your build in a crazy hurry to meet a deadline. A showing tomorrow would be crazed enough....but tonight? eek.gif

tommymsw
, I certainly wish you all the success possible, but I've seen a slew of others who approach this sort of build not realizing how there are particular things and procedures that cannot be compromised or overlooked, and wind up either spinning their wheels, or just plain losin' 'em in the muck and mire of failure.

And the latter affects us all because just as one member's success can bolster the efforts of others, so also can one Member's failure deter many from even making a DIY Screen attempt.

I will freverently hope you pull it off without issue, because if so, there is no more satisfying piece of Crow for anyone to nibble on than a hunk that comes from being wrong to the advantage of someone else. wink.gif

( I do at least take some comfort in knowing you've done something similar in the past...there is that. smile.gif )

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #33 of 48 Old 03-27-2013, 01:30 PM
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No, I said I would NOT be building it anytime soon BECAUSE I have people coming over for a movie (I will keep the current 98in screen up in place). As far as the structure of the frame... I will play it as I go... As I am mounting this to a wall, I have the benefit of the wall itself to help support the structure. I realize my approach is (half-ass) lol, but as I said earlier, I am far more of a technical guy than I am a carpenter! smile.gif

I did get cheap wood and I did need to fish the few good pieces out of the pile of mostly crappy ones. I realize that if you are skilled at woodworking, my methods may seem like nails on a chalkboard, but I don't own my own place, so I can't, nor want to make a big and costly build. I've seen pictures of builds you have done and they are amazing and well thought out. I'm just looking for a way to do the best with what I have? lol... And I'm not certain how this will turn out, but I've had reasonable success in the past.

I think it is important to know that even if you don't have the funds or own your home, you can still get something a LOT better than just projecting the picture onto a wall, or using an expensive and smaller pull down screen.

And if I include some L brackets to secure the boards of the frame together, they are only a few dollars. But first I am going to attempt to drill some pilot holes and just screw the boards together. The tension of the fabric I am expecting to me minimal. I will put it on just tight enough to make it flat, I don't need to stretch it or anything. From this point out, my build will include only a hand saw, measuring tape, a crappy cordless drill and a staple gun!

I get a lot of crap from my friends who are builders, but in the end, everybody seems impressed. I'm also the guy who doesn't turn the power off when doing electrical work. 110 is not pleasant, but it won't kill you! smile.gif
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post #34 of 48 Old 03-29-2013, 09:35 PM
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I am building a projection dome, 7 ft. diameter hemisphere. Will use blackout cloth attached to a geodesic dome. I want to paint the fabric, but cannot use a roller. Has anyone had any success with conventional cans of spray paint? If not, I will use one of the paints recommended here with a Wagner sprayer.
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post #35 of 48 Old 03-30-2013, 04:19 AM
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You will want to use a HVLP gun

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #36 of 48 Old 03-31-2013, 11:52 AM
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Good suggestion. Do you recommend satin or gloss finish?

Thanks
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post #37 of 48 Old 03-31-2013, 11:59 AM
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Finished the new screen Thursday. Total build time was about 1 1/2 hours, total cost was about $57.


The parts were:
(2) 1x3x10 ($6.59 each)
(4) 1x3x8 ($1.45 each) (I only needed 1x3x6 for the 4 boards but for whatever reason the x8's were cheaper)
(1) 118in wide blackout screen (zinc color), 2 yards. ($37 including shipping)


I simply made a frame with the proper dimensions and added two support beams down the center as shown.


I put the support bars kind of in the middle of the frame turned sideways to the other wood because I didn't want that wood touching the screen.


I drilled small pilot holes into the wood and simply used 2 1/2in (2 and a half inch) dry wall screws to hold the frame together.


I then laid the fabric out on the floor and placed the frame on top of it and stretched the fabric onto the frame and fastened with a staple gun about every 8in or so. I Googled how to stretch your own canvas just to make sure I was using the correct technique. I didn't stretch the fabric super tight, just taught enough.
You can see here that the Zinc color fabric is lighter than my painted screen, but I wanted a lighter color because I was moving the projector back and thought it may help with the brightness.


I then put two screws into the wall and hung it as you would a painting. I weighed the frame out of curiosity and it weighed in at 16.5lbs.


Here is an image shot from my phone. Note that this image is NOT in HD, I was watching a standard 480 TV show, but I took the picture out of curiosity and thought it showed the colors very well. I'll post an HD image later.

here are a couple HD images:



All in all, I think it turned out much better than expected. The image quality is perfect. It is just as bright as it was when the projector was closer and even looks good with some lights on. I am 100% satisfied and the screen exceeded my expectations. I am very happy I went this route and would recommend this to anybody. Thank you all who helped my with the ideas.
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post #38 of 48 Old 03-31-2013, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
It is just as bright as it was when the projector was closer and even looks good with some lights on

What screen were you using before? And did you use any special paint for this one, or just the plain old zinc BOC?
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post #39 of 48 Old 03-31-2013, 10:17 PM
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I was using another home made screen that you see in the pictures. The old screen was made out of panel board painted with a light grey paint with a fine roller. With this one, I just used the color of the cloth as I got it. I assume they intend these to be used for this purpose and have this color grey on purpose, knowing it is the best shade? I have painted fabric before, but that is because it was white fabric. The fabric I used on this screen seems to be made for these things. The company seems to sell them for presentations and such.
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post #40 of 48 Old 04-01-2013, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swansre@hotmail. View Post

Good suggestion. Do you recommend satin or gloss finish?

Thanks

Neither. Flat Interior Enamel

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #41 of 48 Old 04-01-2013, 09:16 AM
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Thanks - building the dome this week. Will cover with fabric and paint over the weekend.
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post #42 of 48 Old 04-01-2013, 06:09 PM
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here is a comparison shot. The top picture is simply the original picture that I just uploaded straight, the bottom is the same image on my new screen. Honestly though, my crappy camera phone does not do it justice. When I view the screen through the camera, the colors seem a little brighter, the images are near identical with the naked eye and don't have that "shine" effect you see from the camera. And because I can't hold the camera perfect and the long shutter because of no flash, the image is not as crisp as in real life... But this at least will give you an idea of the color comparison. The image seems slightly brighter and a little richer off the projection screen, but I feel it looks better that way.
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post #43 of 48 Old 04-01-2013, 06:15 PM
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there's actually a considerable difference between those 2 screen shots.
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post #44 of 48 Old 04-01-2013, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

there's actually a considerable difference between those 2 screen shots.

As one would expect.
If you look at the same image on any two televisions, monitors or projectors, the images will be different as the screens likely have different settings. I could adjust the color setting of my tv and make it look 1,000 different ways on the same screen. But as i stated, the majority was due only to the camera... For example, in the lower picture the "blue" city is a lighter color and the spotlights where they cross are very bright, these were not the true however when looking at the screen directly. The camera (likely because of the low light setting with no flash, and the longer shutter speed), made the screen look as if it was "hot spotting" more than in reality, and it also changed the tint of the blue. The camera also likely has it's own color settings, so it is really impossible to get an accurate representation of what you see with your eyes. however, if you ignore the "glare" from the camera and focus just on the the blue, red, gold and black on his suit, the difference is more similar to what I see in person. The worries when it comes to projectors and their screens is more about detail loss and poor contrast and brightness. As you can see in that example, the detail and contrast are near identical even if the colors are not identical, but again, you would never have identical color when comparing ANY two "monitor" sources. But I did explain that in the post. The top picture was not necessary, I just added it as a reference.

In my opinion, I think the bottom pic looks better, but that is why I like projectors or a real movie theater in the first place. The added brightness and effect of the light seems to make a better experience than the much duller television pictures.
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post #45 of 48 Old 04-02-2013, 01:07 AM
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Actually, the Camera can capture far more subtle differences than you realize. Often, what you "see' does not equal to what a camera, properly used, can convey. All the malarkey that is expressed by those about the validity of screen shots, and who really have very limited experience in such matters, tends to dismiss the very real fact that those who do have the gear and the experience can accurately show what is "out there" and do not have to voice excuses. It is an age old argument that only amounts to excuse making by those who either cannot accomplish such for whatever reasons, or have a unspoken reason to state that Screenies are worthless

If your camera catches a perfectly balanced image from one "monitor, and a skewered image on another, don't blame the Camera. Color pushes, and emphasis placed on brighter areas are cased either by reaction of the screen surface to the projected content, or the PJ's own peculiar color output....or both.

I disagree with your ascertain that detail and contrast looks the same. There is a big difference. A loss of Blacks, detail, an obvious blurring. If by any stretch the Phone Camera's own limitations are in fact working against you, then I suggest you wait until you can use a Camera that does not have such obvious limitations, and / or you wait until you learn how to make adjustments to the Camera and how you compose your shots before posting representations.

Simply put, there is a world of difference between those who post exemplary Screenies and then have others dismiss them as looking "too good", and those who post Screenies that require that the poster start out immediately with giving reasons why they "do not" look accurate. The latter should find out "why" they cannot capture what the eye portends to see.

Calibrate the PJ to the Screen's peculiarities (color pushes...reflectivity) and learn to use whatever Camera you have to it's proper advantage....and use representations that are equal "content-wise" but show the differences between projection surfaces, and your efforts will hold more relevance.

Lastly...your final statement makes very little sense. The brightness and actual contrast as shown in most Digital Theaters cannot equal the performance seen on virtually any current TVs of decent ilk. It's almost always "lessor" quality, which is why the Movie Houses are constantly trying to make it better.. Granted,a well set up PJ / screen combo can effectively trounce virtually any Cinemaplex effort, but over the years it has always been an ongoing effort for Front Projection to reach and/or surpass a Direct View Monitor's performance. In most cases, the lack of being able to do so was / is a combined failure of both PJ and Screen, and while the really great PJ/Screen combos do in fact go above and beyond the Cinemaplex, they most all of them fall short of what is possible with a Plasma or LCD / LED display.

That however is not acceptable to DIY Screen advocates, because we have higher standards. Some of us will out of necessity have to haul up short of achieving such a lofty goal because of budget / work ethic / misdirection, but there are too many "successes" out there to dismiss either the potential inherent in DIY Screen making, or to have anyone feeling the need to explain not being able to show a correct example of what they claim they see in person.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #46 of 48 Old 04-02-2013, 09:18 AM
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I think you guys are either not reading what I write or not understanding what I wrote. So i will set you two off on a little field trip so you can see for yourself. Go to a "Best Buy" this weekend and look at the exact same movie on all of their TV's side by side. You will notice considerable differences in picture even between to exact models because the settings on the TV's will be different. Some people prefer more vivid colors, some duller, some like a brighter picture, others darker. There is a reason you can not judge the quality of a tv, on your tv at home via a commercial and this is why most tv's are shown blank. You are CERTAINLY not going to notice a 1080p quality of a picture of a tv if you look at it on your 480 tv set.

I did NOT take a picture of the top shot (as I stated in the first post) So you saying "If your camera catches a perfectly balanced image from one "monitor, and a skewered image on another, don't blame the Camera." is just due to the fact that you did not read what I wrote.

I admitted that the picture was taken with a crappy phone camera JUST LIKE YOU posted on one of your builds where you said "The picture is blurry because I can not hold still enough". YES, Ir I had super expensive equipment that could handle low light photo's that would grab more light from dark areas and less from bright areas and then I adjusted the development for a while I could get a picture that would closely match what you see with your eye, but as there is no such thing as a camera with the same resolution as the human eye, it would never be exact... but it would not matter ANYWAY because even if I got it to look EXACTLY as I see it in real life, it would look totally different to each of you as all of your monitors are all set differently and have different specs. Not to mention the idea that you can't upload an image of high enough quality to this forum to match what you see in person OR what I would see on a photo on my end.

The screen shot is just to give people an idea of what you are trying to explain and everybody should realize that the image is going to look different on their monitor than it does on anybody's else's monitor. This is why I said "Even though you can't see it, the two images are virtually identical when seen in person, with the difference that the projected image is understandably brighter" and YES, in REAL LIFE, the clarity of the image on the projected surface is perfectly matched because the projector is 1080p, however my camera is NOT!

And lastly, I said "In MY opinion.... I prefer the image of a movie theater screen over a tv because of the added brightness of a bulb that is 3,000 or 4,000 watts. Compared to a tv of 75 watts or so, the amount of light given off by a projector is almost like daylight and when there is a sun scene, it radiates into the room as if sunlight were flowing off the screen. Now, if you want to do an experiment on that as well.... go to a movie theater and measure the ambient light of the room given off by the movie on the screen, then turn the movie off and turn on a plasma showing the same scene and tell me if you think the brightness of the room is similar?

Now, of you do not prefer a projected image over that of a television, that is fine. I did not imply you should, I said "I prefer it". I am also one of those why prefer a "warmer" picture and I set my televisions to have brighter colors and richer images because that is what I enjoy. But for me personally, I own a Plasma, LCD, LED and a projector all of them have 1080p and I can watch the exact same shows or movies on each. I personally feel as if the movies look the best on the projector (not just by size but by quality) and I have yet to have anybody in my home who thinks the movies looked better on any set-up other than the projector. For me, it is like night and day, the projector picture is far and beyond the picture on any of the other systems.

But I am not trying to force anybody to feel any way. I am simply putting up what I have done and how I feel about it.

And for the record.... There is NO projector or digital anything that can still beat the quality and brightness and contrast and anything else that the 70mm IMAX can produce. An IMAX film has roughly 16 times the quality of 1080p and even the old 35mm films have around 6 times the quality of 1080p.

I may not be much of a carpenter, but I work as a freelance consultant for companies such as HP, TIVO, SONY and Panasonic, doing the bulk of my work on their cameras, monitors and printers. We have people that go to places like Best Buy to make sure the televisions are set up the way we want for the exact reason I mentioned above.
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post #47 of 48 Old 04-02-2013, 09:27 AM
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I have never seen a picture taken by anybody or of anything that I thought the picture looked EXACTLY as I saw it in person. Look at ANY picture of the Grand Canyon and then go see it in person, hold the image up while you look and see if it is exactly as you see it in real life. Regardless of the fact that we are limited by our monitors and upload sizes, even if you looked at an analog picture developed on paper by the best camera and the greatest photographer, there is no way to capture exactly what your eye sees. Take a picture of a sunset or a rainbow and you will be saying "Oh man! that looked so much better in person"
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post #48 of 48 Old 04-02-2013, 09:57 AM
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After haring your critique Mississipiman, I was curious to see what you were talking about and what a "better" quality picture may be. After looking though all of the "screen shot" posts in this forum, I could not find any that really gave me the understanding of what you meant, so i figured... "Why not use one of his screen shots", so I made up this little comparison of your screen image you supplied as an example from one of your builds vs an actual non-projected image to try to see what it is you are talking about. Surly I should see in your comparison something that I was unable to see in mine?



After looking at thins, I am just going to have to go with "taste"... maybe we each have a different idea of what a "good" picture is. And that is the point I was trying to make. Where you may find this comparison to be the "better" one, I still prefer mine.
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