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post #1 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Was directed by Mississippiman to post here for my issue . I am soon going to be a 8350 owner and I am painting a wall in my room. Now I recently bought the paint I read on here the valspar premium interior eggshell white color matched to veil by glidden which apparently is not gonna work for what I wanna do according to some people. I am going to be projecting on my wall in my room and the wall measures 11 feet and half inch by 6ft 9 inches tall. Along the bottom 11and a half inch part of the wall is a 4.5 inch baseboard/trim. My goal was to use the entire wall corner to corner screen size. The projector is gonna be hooked up to HTPC is this something i can actually do? corner to corner screen? or should my screen but slightly smaller to adhere to 16:9 standards? I wanna utilize every mm of the wall i can for screen but not without adhering to proper 16:9 for media and game playing. Thanks for your time and suggestions. my sitting distance is going to be about 14 feet away. The projector is expected to be mounted maybe a few feet behind that?. Room has no windows and will be pitch black. I was gonna just use the paint I was originally suggested but im being told it wont work and there are methods im suppose to follow from you guys to paint it properly. The Room is 22 feet and 3 and a half inches long and 11 and a half inch wide. I could probably spin my bed and make my sitting distance further if need be.
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post #2 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 06:18 PM
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Suggested Screen size:
128"( 10' -8") x 72" (6')

Strongly suggested Throw Distance:
15' 5"

DIY Screen Paint.

Best choice............... cool.gif
S-I-L-V-E-R A simple, well proven high gain, dynamic coating. It consists of 1 Gallon Behr Faux Glaze and 4 - 6 oz of Silver Metallic. It needs to be Sprayed.It cannot be Rolled. It is usually considered to be approx 1.4 gain when mixed and applied correctly. And....it's Silver Content does spectacular things for Contrast - Challenged PJs.

.....and that is where the reality check comes in. At 147" diagonal, the Epson 8350 would deliver you 14 foot lambert into a 1.0 gain surface. That is considered acceptable in a totally darkened room....but in your case, the extreme proximity of the Side Walls and Ceiling absolutely requires that they must be painted to absorb the light from the PJ, or the rebounding projected light is going to effectively ruin the image quality. Washed out colors and blacks.

In other words your Screen will be pissin' into the wind.

And that is at 1.0 gain. That "Veil" suggestion would of had you down about 0.7 gain at best, and that would offer only 10 foot lambert. While that might seem to be a help, it's really a case of cutting off a finger to get rid of a splinter.

Which.....in some cases to many, it could be considered acceptable if the entire surface of a wall was outputting that level consistently. Total darkness does make a huge difference, but such totality isn't really all that easy to come by...or maintain.

Now however if your screen surface is 1.4 gain, the foot lambert level jumps up to 19 fl. THAT would be a very dynamic, almost LCD-like image....at 147" diagonal.

The only drawback being that the Epson 6700 is a 720p machine. Get a Darby Doublet.... wink.gif


But let's say your a hard case and refuse to drop your Roller. Well....RS-MaxxMudd LL is the solution. It's roll-able, and has the gain and contrast boosting you need. But it does it's very best when sprayed, naturally. Can't get past that.

But as mentioned above, you have to consider making sure your walls and ceiling surfaces don't work against you, no matter what paint you choose. That does not mean resorting to Flat Black (...which is both ugly and reflects a blue-ish cast) No, a Dark Gray Satin or Flat "Enamel" is the very best. You could take that Gallon of Veil Eggshell and mix it into a Gallon of Flat UPW Latex tinted Veil, and wind up with 2 gallons of a "Gray Flat Enamel / Satin" mix that will look pretty good with the lights up, but resist reflected projected light.

Myself, I'd take it further and paint a 5' deep "Shadow Boxed" area out from the screen wall, and paint it a ultra dark "Slate Gray" in a Flat Enamel. The best possible effect you could achieve is to have that wall-sized Image seemingly floating in space.

You can still mix your Veil into whatever else you decide on and not lose that investment.

That's what I would do iffin' it were me.
But that's me.biggrin.gif

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post #3 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Dude ive been forensically going through your posts and your projector / paint knowledge literally blows my mind. I don't know if people truly appreciate the work you put in every response but I can assure you I do and thank you for your time. As for my room the ceiling is infact a drop ceiling of whiteish flat tiles and the surrounding walls a tope color. Now should I leave that 4.5 inch baseboard at the bottom ? And then are you suggesting from the baseboard there I paint a 5 inch black border on all sides ? Also when you say 4-6 oz of silver metallic what brand and type would i be buying? I am very paint dumb and want to get EXACTLY what you say.. I also yes would like to save the money i spent on the valspar mixed to veil thatd be awesome. I also am confused by your reference to the epson 6700 lol I am getting the 8350

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post #4 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradtn View Post

Dude ive been forensically going through your posts and your projector / paint knowledge literally blows my mind. I don't know if people truly appreciate the work you put in every response but I can assure you I do and thank you for your time. As for my room the ceiling is infact a drop ceiling of whiteish flat tiles and the surrounding walls a tope color. Now should I leave that 4.5 inch baseboard at the bottom ? And then are you suggesting from the baseboard there I paint a 5 inch black border on all sides ?

Look again...I wrote "5 feet" out from the screen wall on the walls and ceiling. You can leave the baseboard there...I factored it in. The screen image can virtually rest on the top edge of the base, but I'd paint it the same dark shade of Gray chosen for the Walls & Ceiling. With the base being 4.5" and the Screen being 72", the total of 76.5" leaves 4.5" from the top of the image to the ceiling.

Wow...how'd that work out like that? confused.gif Guess I got lucky. wink.gif
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Also when you say 4-6 oz of silver metallic what brand and type would i be buying? I am very paint dumb and want to get EXACTLY what you say.. I also yes would like to save the money i spent on the valspar mixed to veil thatd be awesome. I also am confused by your reference to the epson 6700 lol I am getting the 8530

Owww. Suddenly I was thinking of another Poster I'm helping at the same time. I often have 2-3 AVS windows open at once. You'll note however that I originally referenced the 8350, and all my figures were / are based on that PJ.

The Silver Metallic I will help source for you for S-I-L-V-E-R, but let;s not be hasty. RS-MaxxMudd LL is still in the running.

WHITE TILES for a Ceiling. rolleyes.gif

Somebody get a rope! They gotta get coated....they GOTTA!

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post #5 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes please give me specifics on all the paint mixers please I am in canada just so you know if that makes any difference

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post #6 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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lets say painting my white ceiling tiles the black/grey you suggest isnt an option lol is there some material i could paint to overlay the drop ceiling for same effect? also to put on the floors 5foot out? I will do the first option you states sprayed and I will also do the shadow box you suggested but along with the brand of silver you tell me to add can you tell me exactly what brand and type slate gray enamel paint to get for the shadow box thanks a ton.

Is this the correct Behr paint your stated ? http://www.homedepot.ca/product/premium-plus-with-style-faux-glaze-379l/939017
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post #7 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtn View Post

lets say painting my white ceiling tiles the black/grey you suggest isnt an option lol is there some material i could paint to overlay the drop ceiling for same effect? also to put on the floors 5foot out?

Black Velvet applied with Black Thumbtacks over the Ceiling Tiles.

For the Floor, a dark Gray Carpet Remanent.
Quote:
I will do the first option you states sprayed and I will also do the shadow box you suggested but along with the brand of silver you tell me to add can you tell me exactly what brand and type slate gray enamel paint to get for the shadow box thanks a ton.

Is this the correct Behr paint your stated ? http://www.homedepot.ca/product/premium-plus-with-style-faux-glaze-379l/939017

That is the correct Faux Glaze.

For the dark Gray, use this.....: Sherwin Williams 7066 GRAY MATTERS only ask them to darken it 2x They will specify "Behr Deep Base Interior Flat Enamel"

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post #8 of 39 Old 04-27-2013, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Black Velvet applied with Black Thumbtacks over the Ceiling Tiles.

For the Floor, a dark Gray Carpet Remanent.
That is the correct Faux Glaze.

For the dark Gray, use this.....: Sherwin Williams 7066 GRAY MATTERS only ask them to darken it 2x They will specify "Behr Deep Base Interior Flat Enamel"

Is that the dark gray for the shadow box? or the silver for the S-I-L-V-E-R mix?
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post #9 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtn View Post

Is that the dark gray for the shadow box? or the silver for the S-I-L-V-E-R mix?

The surrounding Shadow Box

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post #10 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradtn View Post

Is that the dark gray for the shadow box? or the silver for the S-I-L-V-E-R mix?

The surrounding Shadow Box

Thanks man so which silver am I having home depot mix into that behr?

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post #11 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 09:01 AM
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Hi,

The original Silver Metallic used in S-I-L-V-E-R is hard, if not ALMOST impossible to find. If you know where / what to look for it does still exist out there.

Here is one link:
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Creative-Ceramcoat-Gleams-Acrylic/dp/B001B2SHG0

And a viable & affordable alternative:
http://www.amazon.com/Sargent-Art-22-1182-8-Ounce-Acrylic/dp/B004O7E5UG/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hg_1

But you can't expect the Boys at Home Depot to do the mixing. You have to do that yourself. It will require your using a plastic 2.5 gallon bucket (@ HD), and using this mixing tool: http://www.amazon.com/Homax-69011-1-Gallon-PolyPro-Galvanized/dp/B000ELORFE

Using either, I mix 8 oz into 1 Gallo9n of Glaze, and add an additional 16 oz water...stir slowly but thoroughly using the "squirrel mixer", strain through a Nylon "Sock Filter" http://www.homedepot.com/p/Trimaco-1-Gal-Elastic-Top-Strainers-2-Pack-11572-12WF/202061359#.UX1Htsrp9OY

Go to this Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/854134/the-really-big-picture-show

...and do a search for other similar Threads.

READ....absorb....do not rush into this. Ask questions first. Mix and spray second.

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post #12 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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So the first amazon link you posted how many am I ordering 4 or 3 of those 2 oz cans

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post #13 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 10:17 AM
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So the first amazon link you posted how many am I ordering 4 or 3 of those 2 oz cans

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4 of them. And they are 2 oz. Plastic Bottles.

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post #14 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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When you told me to get that sherwin williams gray matters darkened 2x at home depot is there any other lingo i should say? The person seemed to be confused but what that exactly meant ...

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post #15 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 11:44 AM
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When you told me to get that sherwin williams gray matters darkened 2x at home depot is there any other lingo i should say? The person seemed to be confused but what that exactly meant ...

Hmmmm...sounds like you got a Paint Tech "stand in". rolleyes.gif

Most experienced Paint Techs know how to darken a given color from the prescribed formula. If not, then all they need to do is look on other Color cards to find something similar yet darker.

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post #16 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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So I ordered 4 of the ones you stated from amazon =) excited

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post #17 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 12:19 PM
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So I ordered 4 of the ones you stated from amazon =) excited

This Guy is a "mover and a shaker". Makes me glad to be a "motivator"

Gotta go now...see ya later. cool.gif

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post #18 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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haha thanks man. You are the Gordon Ramsay of Projectors and im sure much more I am not gonna question you or say what your suggesting is wrong im gonna take the great advice and run. Now when you say mix in 16oz of water and is there any specific "kind" of water id be mixing in? also in your amazing thread you referenced you show you did 7 coats. is this the amount of coats I should do as well? Also if renting a sprayer which is best to rent?
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post #19 of 39 Old 04-28-2013, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Also I would like to recap just to make sure I am understanding correctly

My mix is going to consist of

1 Gallon Behr Faux Glaze

4 - 2oz Silver metallic paint as linked from amazon so a total 8 oz into the gallon


Followed by 16 oz of yet specified kind of water....

mixed

Strained and then sprayed?

Those amounts correct?
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post #20 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 02:34 AM
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Yes....a good start. Now we just have to make sure that your spraying technique is correct.

This is an ambitious project for a beginner. I do wish the 3900 Turbine you got came with the 1.3 gallon "Back Pack". The much smaller Quart Cup that comes with the Gun is a concern for me. Running out of paint so that the gun starts spitting or spraying a weak pattern is not really an option to be considered with S-I-L-V-E-R.

Other issues like your being to reach the top rows effectively, as well as stooping to reach the bottom row and maintaining a level aspect on the Gun "AND" the proper distance and speed all are at least a concern. But other concerns specific to this type / size project are lurking in the background as well.

Having done similar projects before, I know the difficulties involved, and by far the biggest ones are physical. The method and motions involved become much more fluid-like and precise with practice and real experience. S-I-L-V-E-R is at once both an easy do, and a unforgiving one of simple errors made while spraying. Also, because your doing a entire wall, the entire wall surface that is to be a screen must be almost perfectly free of any basically noticeable defects. Even prefectly done technique can't compensate for surface defects.

The only way to do this project is carefully, as slowly and methodically as possible. No rushing drying time between coats. Cleaning the Gun Head after each application. Oh yeah...you MUST wear a Dual Cartridge respirator-style mask. Sometimes I forget that what seems intuitive and basic to me are unknowns to others, and all the prior repeated Thread postings on requirements are not always effectively sourced out and studied. Such is why I find myself constantly repeating directions to every posted request. If I repeat them personally, then in the least I'm certain the End User has the opportunity to glean knowledge and awareness of important aspects and requirements. As to if they avail themselves of all of such, and take pains to follow such exactly.....only the Gods of DIY Screen making will know.

As I said, this is an ambitious project. But a do-able one if approached with measured care and effort. beyond the usual wish for anyone to nail down a great result, this project is important because it represents something that others are quick to claim isn't possible.....wither either PJ or paint.

In many ways it will represent a epic level of DIY-ism that is to be pointed to as an example for some time. As to if the finger pointing will be exclamatory or accusatory is yet to be determined. I promise to do my part to avoid the latter occurrence if you work closely with me on the critical aspects involved....beyond that it's all up to you bradtn.

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post #21 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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im slightly confused I do not know what this 3900 turbine backpack thing is that you say I got ? Lol but will the gallon mix I make suffice to do this wall with multiple coats ? Will I have lots left over ? And how many coats should be done? And what type sprayer is best to rent specifically

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post #22 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 06:49 AM
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im slightly confused I do not know what this 3900 turbine backpack thing is that you say I got ? Lol but will the gallon mix I make suffice to do this wall with multiple coats ? Will I have lots left over ? And how many coats should be done? And what type sprayer is best to rent specifically

If you buy a Graco 3900 outfit "New" it comes with a 1.3 Gallon Back Pack. 2900 / 3900 Refurbed Units do not....they just occasionally send a 3900 Turbine instead of a 2900 if a sales request is made for a 2900 and a 3900 Turbine is what is available in the "Refurb" inventory. Otherwise, the Back Pack is strictly an optional Accessory.

The entire Gallon, when mixed with 8 oz Silver and a minimum** of 16 oz of "Distilled or Filtered" water amounts to just under 1.25 gallon....and that should suffice, but I don't think you'll have much left. It's really an unknown because you...and solely you are in control once the squirtin' starts. Mistakes can eat up quite a bit of paint reserves.

Your still asking how many coats? 7 to 8 Dusters, done properly, should suffice. Usually it's 8.
The initial Dusters look very sparse and light. Many state they can hardly see that they have applied anything until they reach the 4th Duster.

And why the question about renting? If your referring to something to spray the House walls with, ask for a Airless Spray Rig at Home Depot or any other Tool Rental outlet.

**...you might require up to 24 oz. water to get a good mix that sprays a tall, even pattern. That is why testing is so important...

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post #23 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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well I dont plan on buying a paint sprayer lol I was confused where this 3900 thing came from I was always gonna rent a sprayer from home depot so I wanted to know which was best for the job

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post #24 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 07:07 AM
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well I dont plan on buying a paint sprayer lol I was confused where this 3900 thing came from I was always gonna rent a sprayer from home depot so I wanted to know which was best for the job

There is no sprayer you can rent that is HVLP and that can handle S-I-L-V-E-R.

If what you say is true, you must return the Faux Glaze, and use the Silver Metallic you ordered (...with some additional...) and a couple other ingredients and do a RS-MaxxMudd LL surface using a Roller.

Basically, I think we are dealing with a failure to read everything I posted here http://www.avsforum.com/t/1470252/epson-8530-screen-help#post_23253405 and absorb all the provided information.

Not fussin' atcha....but it does go to prove that asking questions...enough questions, can uncover some issues before they become real problems.

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post #25 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I was confused as to cheap cost of this sprayer
Will this work


http://m.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-PaintREADY-HVLP-Sprayer-0529002/203474792/

?
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post #27 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 07:17 AM
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I was confused as to cheap cost of this sprayer
Will this work


http://m.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-PaintREADY-HVLP-Sprayer-0529002/203474792/

That's a brand new model there....1st time I've seen one. It can work...but I'd rather see you use the Graco with a 1.5 mm needle kit.

Order this for 1/2 cost. http://www.gleempaint.com/noname.html
.....and this Needle: http://www.checkoutsupply.com/earlex-hvacv15-1-5mm-needle-brass-tip-hv3500/

You will still be $25.00 under the $99.00 cost of the Wagner. Less shipping.

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post #28 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtn View Post

Or this
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Husky-HVLP-and-Standard-Gravity-Feed-Spray-Gun-Kit-HDK00600SG/203497812/
Sent from my Galaxy Note II

Oh no....that type HVLP requires a sizable Compressor Fed pressure tank, hoses, rust & water filters.

That is what everyone "HAD" to use 6 years back and beyond before the advent of Electric HVLP Guns.

The sheer cost of which...and the logistics of using them made convincing cheap-arse DIY'ers that spraying was best so difficult.

Your scaring me......eek.gif
....and I don't scare easily. tongue.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #29 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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http://m.homedepot.ca/Product/productdetails.aspx?ProductId=939822&lang=EN

I think im gonna go pick up this one will ypu give me your blessing ?

Sent from my Galaxy Note II
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post #30 of 39 Old 04-29-2013, 07:36 AM
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Wow. Some good can come from consternation.

I found this gem:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-PaintREADY-Stationary-HVLP-Sprayer-0529003/203474760#.UX6DYMrp9OY

.....a Wagner Control Spray Max that comes with both a 2.0 mm Needle head and the original "Fine Finish" head that was discontinued when the original Control Spray was dropped.

If you get this Rig....you can paint the World.

I got 5 Electric HVLP rigs and I'm a'gettin' this one too fur shur!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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