Pro 8200 HD Screen Advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 04-27-2013, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone!

What a wealth of information here! It's a little daunting, but I'm trying to make my way through it.

I'm looking for a suggestion on a screen for my Pro 8200 in a bedroom (so, not particularly light controlled.) I -might- get darker grey walls, but the ceiling will be white and I expect to watch my PJ at least half the time during the day (it's essentially a television replacement.) I expect to watch movies and television, play games, and if possible use my PJ to double as a huge computer screen.

From what I understand, white screens are ideal for light controlled rooms, so I ought to be looking for something grey or black?

I'm renting, so my ability to alter the room is fairly limited. I could probably install a pull down or electric screen, but much more is pushing it. I could probably manage spandex or vinyl in a frame.

Basically, I'm looking for a cheapish (sub $200) screen solution that will give me reasonable quality. If that's just an off the shelf screen, that's fine, but I'm open to DIY solutions. If I need to paint a screen or board, it can only be roll on. I've rented the house, but I'm not yet there, so my measurements are more like guesses, but I ought to be able to eek out at least 100", and maybe as much as 120",

I'm not exactly a purist (and certainly not to the extent of many people here), but I would like to get what I can out of my projector.

Thanks so much, in advance!
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post #2 of 27 Old 04-27-2013, 09:23 PM
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Silver Spandex over White Spandex on a Frame is your Huckleberry. Optimize your Throw distance, and keep to 100" and you'll be very happy with the results.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #3 of 27 Old 04-27-2013, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks very much, MM. I've read far from everything, but enough to know you know what you're talking about!

I'm moving in about a month, and I'll post up build pics when I get on it then.
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post #4 of 27 Old 04-28-2013, 05:53 AM
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Cool. Do check back before you invest in the Spandex as we are constantly attempting to refine the equation.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #5 of 27 Old 04-28-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Will do, MM.

To give you an idea of what I'm working with, the pics below show the two ends of the room.

We looked at a lot of houses (one of which had a pre-built home theater, but we didn't get it >.>) and I thought this one was was about third in line on our list, but we ended up getting it. I didn't take any measurements - the room itself is 11' x 17', but obviously the one side is something smaller than that.

I'm going to do my best to paint those walls something darker.




You can see why light control will be an issue.

If I put my screen on the wide end of the room, would some kind of BOC behind the screen over that window be a good idea? Would black-out drapes be sufficient? The benefit of a larger screen might be overcome by the light source directly behind it. I'm thinking spandex, in particular, might be more prone to washing out since it's thin? On the other hand, if I remember one of your other comments right, the boxed-in window would give me more options for blacking it out more completely?

If I put the screen on the narrow end, I'll lose a good chunk of screen space, but maybe not enough that I couldn't still fit 100" in there. It gets kind of a double whammy of light right off to the side, but since it's not directly behind the screen, maybe drapes would be sufficient?
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post #6 of 27 Old 04-28-2013, 10:19 AM
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I'd go for the long wall location, and work toward getting a viable solution down as far a controlling light from those windows.

More later....

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #7 of 27 Old 04-28-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good, I'll check back later. Thanks.

While I'm thinking, any ideas about a plain TWH wrapped in the silver spandex milliskin? Intuitively it seems like it might give the contrast boost of a silver screen with the light-blocking properties of a solid piece. My intuition in this area is pretty weak, though, so it might just be the worst of both worlds.
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post #8 of 27 Old 04-28-2013, 11:55 AM
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The only real concern would be that the complete lack of absorption by the TWH, and it's slight gloss, might redirect too much light back into the surface. (...however you can mute the TWH gloss by rubbing it vigorously with a Magic Eraser...)

But really, I also think the TWH is unlikely to cause an issue used as such. Truthfully, TWH is so inexpensive, I'd give it a try, and in the least it's there for you to wrap with both materials.

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post #9 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey MM, one more question.

In another thread, you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan 
If "Acoustic Transparency" is not required, the best possible choice is 6mm Sintra for the smaller surface,

... and a Dual Layered 2-Way Stretch Spandex (White / Gray) for the biggun. http://www.spandexhouse.com/products.php?navId=282&navName=Double%20Face

You could instead use two separate sheets of 4 way Stretch Spandex (Silver & White) from Spandex World, but that is double the cost and work effort.

Would that be a good solution for my TWH as well? Acoustic transparency doesn't matter at all to me, and Spandex World seems to still be out. Would that have the same effect as silver over white milliskin?
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post #10 of 27 Old 05-06-2013, 05:07 AM
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I suggested the dual layered White / Gray spandex at a time when there was a real delay in the availability of the Silver Spandex, and it was also before the Milliskin variety came to light.

But really, I'm a bit turned around as far as what exactly your asking about.

THW covered with Light Silver Milliskin?

Illuminate me, please.

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post #11 of 27 Old 05-06-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Right, that's exactly what I was thinking. (Post 7, and I think you covered it in post 8).

Is the spandex house double face not milliskin?

Edit:

Although, since I've done some more reading, how do you think that would compare to rolled on Behr Silver Screen? There's a thread here that seemed to have great results, even in a not-very-light-controlled environment.
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post #12 of 27 Old 05-07-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johntniman View Post

Right, that's exactly what I was thinking. (Post 7, and I think you covered it in post 8).

Is the spandex house double face not milliskin?

No. I have not since made any recommendations of it since seeing a sample.
Quote:
Edit:

Although, since I've done some more reading, how do you think that would compare to rolled on Behr Silver Screen? There's a thread here that seemed to have great results, even in a not-very-light-controlled environment.

It is a very adequate DIY Screen paint application. Almost completely Neutral, it does a great job when mixed into Latex Interior Enamel Flat Base (Medium) and hit with adequate Lumen output.

It's roll-able directly onto a smoothed White Primed wall or clean White Substrate.

Spraying only ramps up it potential. Now...it's no world beater....but for a quick and inexpensive ambient light resistant screen, it does it's job just as well as you allow it to.

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post #13 of 27 Old 05-21-2013, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I'm actually here in Escondido now, so let me fill in some of the details I was missing.

Looking again at the room, I think this wall will be the best location. It's about 105" x 96" of pure wall space. If you put the bottom picture from post 5 on the left, and the top picture from post 5 on the right, you'll see the wall below.



There's one window to the right, and two further along the wall (you can see the first of the two in the corner there) but I ought to be able to hang a sheet of TWH that covers almost the whole area across, and should leave a good bit of room top and bottom (the wall is just about 8'' high, so I should have 2' top and bottom.)

I couldn't fit a whole TWH in the other portion of the room, and I'd rather move the location than sacrifice more screen space.

I'm going to paint the wall that the screen is on a dark blue, and maybe line the screen to try to absorb some ambient light. I'll also have blackout curtains over those windows. The rest of the walls will be a medium grey, which should also help with ambient light.

I should have something like 10.25' - 10.5' of throw distance from the back wall. Ideally it'll shoot over the couch and hit the board just about center, and I can adjust a bit with the zoom and the vertical adjuster as needed.

Does that seem like a reasonable plan? What's a good way to affix the TWH to the wall without damaging the wall too much (it's a rental)?
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post #14 of 27 Old 05-21-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johntniman View Post

Okay, I'm actually here in Escondido now,

Woo ya....., I just did another Screen up in the Hills in Rancho Sante Fe

Quote:
Does that seem like a reasonable plan? What's a good way to affix the TWH to the wall without damaging the wall too much (it's a rental)?

You can glue on some 6" x 12" x 1/4" Plywood Tabs around the edges (...on the Back Side...) leaving 2" protruding. then use that exposed "Tab" to screw the TWH to the wall. That way you only have 10-14 small screw holes to press some Spackle in.

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post #15 of 27 Old 05-23-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again, MM.

I guess the time has come to turn this Q&A into a build thread. It's more than a screen build, but calling this a "home theater" build is probably an insult to all your home theater enthusiasts wink.gif

So instead, it's a Bedroom-transition thread.

I'll try to take pics from roughly the same locations since the wall is so funky shaped.

Total spent so far: ~$115 in paint (including the screen paint), ~$30 in painting supplies, ~$40 on a projector mount, ~$15 on some long HDMI cables, ~$14 on the projector screen itself (TWH) and ~$12 on mounting screws. I'm not building a frame exactly, but the wood I'll use to raise the screen from the wall is leftover from what I'm using to build my bed platform.

Here's the room originally:





And here it is boxed out with tape in prep for paint:





Actual painting begins now.
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post #16 of 27 Old 05-23-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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And the first two walls have a coat.





The wall behind the screen is Blue-Grey Slate, color matched to Behr Premium Plus Ultra. I figure that'll provide the maximum light absorbtion that I can get away with,

The other wall (and the two that are yet unpainted) is Dark Pewter, which I imagine will also cut down on some light reflection but lightens it up a little.

More pics later.
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post #17 of 27 Old 05-24-2013, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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A bit slow going (we are setting up the rest of the house, too, since we just moved), but all the walls are painted now.





It's a little tough to tell on my phone camera in the sunlight, but all the gray walls are the same shade, and the darkest wall is a deep blue-gray.

I also got the couch in, and there's a mini-refrigerator next to it. They'll be in the next set of pics.

Hopefully I can tackle the curtains, entertainment center, and screen tomorrow.
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post #18 of 27 Old 05-25-2013, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Screen is up, and it's nigh-on earthquake proof.

One piece of TWH, rolled with two coats of Behr Silver Screen, mounted onto seven roughly 4" x 4" x 2" blocks left over from building my bed, and those are sunk into the wall with toggle bolts. The wall will fall down before this baby does. I believe the technical term is "overkill."

Tomorrow I'm caulking over the screws, painting it once or twice more, and hooking up my projector and various electronics bits. If everything is good, I should have some screen images available tomorrow night.




A pic from the side, since it floats about 2", of the mounting hardware on the back:
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post #19 of 27 Old 05-26-2013, 06:03 AM
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Be certain to block the center "Top & Bottom" so as to avoid any bowing at center.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #20 of 27 Old 05-27-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Did that, MM smile.gif

Here's the final set-up. Now I'm hoping for some tweaking advice.

First, Pics:

A general set-up of the room.


The screen, front-on.


The projector mount set-up.


The screen in the dark - you can see some imperfections.


My keystoning problem:


A pic from paused TV:


I had originally planned to mount my projector on the ceiling, and indeed did mount it on the ceiling. But, there wasn't enough throw distance (guess I should have measured that) so I moved it into the closet as you see in pic 3.

Unfortunately, I think the tilt is so extreme in the closet that the projector's center of gravity is confused. My keystone setting is currently at the most extreme setting, -40. At 0 keystone, the problem is even more pronounced and the video is very narrow at the top and wide at the bottom, with parts of the image overhanging the screen. It gets better with more negative keystoning, but I really need about -60 or -80 to be square.



At Zero:


The only other problem I have is some roller marks (which aren't great, but are livable) and the marks from the screws from mounting the board. Any thoughts on something to cover those up? I tried to caulk them, but it didn't work so great. Some stickers that will hold paint would be bea-u-tiful. Neither problem is horrendous, but both are distracting. In moving images or darkish scenes it's no problem, but in light scenes it's really apparent, and I like hockey wink.gif

Thanks again for all the help, MM.
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post #21 of 27 Old 05-27-2013, 09:27 AM
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Hey!

Just reverse the Board / Mount and using a double Plywood "Clamp", hang the PH from the Bottom of the shelf. Use the Image Offset to your advantage, don't try to mitigate it with excessive Tilt and keystone adjustment.

........and why can't you hang the PJ from the Closet ceiling? Furgudness sake, the Pro8200 has an huge 23" Image offset. Where there is a will there is a way.

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post #22 of 27 Old 05-27-2013, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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The problem with the closet ceiling is that it goes all the way up to where the regular ceiling is, so I'd just be projecting into the back of the lip of the closet.

I'll try flipping the projector and will post pics.
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post #23 of 27 Old 05-27-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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So, here's keystone neutral with the projector sitting flat on a shelf about two and a half feel below the shelf.

Flipping the projector just gave me the opposite problem. Here, it seem like I need to boost up the back fairly extremely (or mount it to the projector mount again, and that to the shelf.) Doing that and angling the projector again seems like it'll get me right back to where I was on the shelf, however.

Any thoughts before put some holes in this shelf?



(That's the top of the screen, just below the ViewSonic logo)



Here it is with the back feet all the way extended: You can see it helped some, but I need a whole lot more.



If I put the projector on the next highest shelf setting, about a foot down, I get this:



Much better still, but still too high.

Anything lower, and the light will hit the couch (I think it is a bit, here.) I seem to have a -huge- vertical offset - I'd need the PJ to be about two feet off the floor to project onto a screen three and a half feet up.

Any ideas?
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post #24 of 27 Old 05-27-2013, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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On last oddity and then I'll stop and wait for a reply.

Here's the projector super low (less than 2' from the ground) in a slightly different location. No keystone, feet the same length, should be balanced.

The top is obviously slanted, but look at the bottom - it seems level. There's nothing blocking the top image of the screen, so this seems to be the projected image itself not being square.

I'm very confused at this point.

Thanks for any help smile.gif


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post #25 of 27 Old 05-27-2013, 06:54 PM
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The PJ is twisted to the left of center to the wall. It needs to be moved to the left and the PJ twisted slightly to the right, aligning the face of the Lens to be parallel to the wall while the image is centered where you want it.

What you need to do, is either change Mounts* or adapting the one you have to a solid Drop just below the Front of the Closet. The latter should be as easy as placing a Cleat on the rear wall of the Closet, at who's top edge is level with the top edge of the Door Trim. Place a "16" wide Bridge" of 3/4" BC or better Plywood from the Wall Cleat to the Door Trim. Secure, and then mount the PJ's Mount inverted. Or better still, use two opposing Wall Cleats and measure their placement so the Bridge / Mount combo leaves the Lens just below the bottom edge of the Closet Door Frame / Trim.

You gotta accept that you will still need to use Tilt & Keystone, so the object is to invert the PJ and mount it so the Lens is absolutely as high as you can get it placed. That will minimize Tilt needed, therein minimizing the degree of Keystone adjustment needed.

It's the only viable solution I can think of...and not bad since it puts the PJ back where it should be, and out of the way, while mitigating the image placement issues that are peculiar to the Pro8200 HD

I wish you could have checked in in time to get a better Mount suggestion. One whose Drop is virtually infinitely adjustable in length. (*Chief RPA-O or Dedicated )

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post #26 of 27 Old 05-27-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, that doesn't seem bad. I have some plywood left over from building my bed. The Mustang mount is very adjustable, just not for height, so with a solid platform it should do what I want.

Let me see what I can put together tomorrow and I'll update you.

Thanks, again!
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post #27 of 27 Old 05-28-2013, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, a couple new developments now:

I have my PJ on a board and a shelf, similar to the pic above, but a little more centered on the screen. A lot of little adjustments and I've managed to get it to look better.

It has slightly less keystone adjustment (-35 now) and seems less slanted. I have two bars where there's no image on the sides, but they're roughly uniform and with some velvet border would probably be unnoticeable.

There are a couple settings I can't seem to adjust, most importantly H-position and V-position. Is this the "lens shift" I've read about, and if so, is it just a function in the software that the 8200HD doesn't support, or is there some other way of adjusting these? The software says they're there, but I cannot seem to adjust them (and I've checked the user manual, but it's not so helpful.)

Pics in a bit.
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