So much information it's mind boggling! Planning DIY Swing Down (Aluminum?) Screen w/ Epson 8350 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All.

I've been browsing around the DIY Screen Section for a bit now and man, lots of information/options floating around. Now to the point.

I have a 16' x 18' bonus room that will have the projector screen on the shorter dimension in front of the window in the room (read the window will be covered, so the only ambient light would be from my computer monitors in the room, but these will most likely be off during viewing). I'm looking at about a 100" - 106" screen as seating will be about 11' - 12' away. I'm looking for suggestions on building a screen/buying a screen etc etc.

My other half doesn't like the idea of blocking off the only window in the room full time, so I'm left with a couple options:

1) Buy a manual pull down like this one. The issue here is I'm worried about waves in the screen and also the uncertainty that whenever I pull down the screen, it'll pull down to the exact same spot such that I don't have to vertically adjust my protector (Will this be an issue?). The convenience being that I can roll it up out of they way when needed and it's out of the way.

2) Build a DIY fixed screen and have it fold up and away, much like what was done here. This is where my DIY screen questions begin.

1. If I go this route, would a wood frame be prohibitive with respect to weight?
2. Would a single rectangular 1" aluminum tube frame be strong enough s.t. it doesn't warp when the screen material is stretched? would I need to have a vertical support in the center? If I'm attaching it like the above DIY, I wouldn't be able to put the support in the middle as the screen is behind the tubing. I guess the person above did it without the center vertical on a 120", which seemed to work ok for him. I don't know, just want verification from someone else that it doesn't seem out of line to forget it.
3. Speaking of screen material, there is a LOT of material on screen material (pun intended). Options ranging from BOC to Spandex to custom cloth, all with options to paint on a surface. I'm kind of lost in the sense as I don't know what will be appropriate for my setup.
4.a. If I go BOC, I saw some used velcro to attached to an aluminum frame, which seems a bit cost prohibitive (1"x50' for $50). That cost includes the probability of doing something like the DIY I referenced, where he stuck velcro on the interior of the frame to help reduce reflections from the screen to the aluminum tube. (maybe just some felt tape instead?)
4.b. Anyone have other ideas of how to stick the screen to an aluminum tube? Just a flat aluminum tube, nothing with splines or anything. If I were to go wood, I'd just staple it around the edge.
4.c. Using BOC, what would necessitate spraying on a surface such as Silver Fire?
5. Is spandex meant only really for AT screens? I'm not looking to setup an AT screen as I'm not getting that fancy with the audio system (yet). That and the position of the window and screen doesn't allow me to place a center speaker behind the screen.
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post #2 of 24 Old 05-05-2013, 03:46 AM
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Have you considered a motorized tab tension screen? MM's thread show a build where the screen disappears in the ceiling:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432177/painting-onto-a-106-tab-tensioned-screen-with-silver-fire-v2-5-4-0

Here's another suggestion with a fixed fold up screen:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422931/fold-up-frame-screen-disguised-as-ceiling-lamp-motorized-masking
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-06-2013, 08:57 PM
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Yes, a tensioned screen might be the best bet. If you are planning on staying there for a while, and using the theater for a while, I would consider one of those.

If you are not going to be there for a long time, then a pull down might be fine. No, it won't be a perfect screen, but if you are only planning a shorter use, that might work for what you need.
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post #4 of 24 Old 05-06-2013, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies. I am not looking at a tab-tensioned screen just out of costs. As it is now, the other half is weary about droppin' $1100 on the 8350. So I gotta try to save money on the screen :/ I think I'm going to try doing a 1x3 poplar/maple screen with window screen spline aluminum. I guess BOC is an ok starter until I muster up the courage/motivation to put some SF down on it. Hopefully it works out well. We'll see what happens.
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-06-2013, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to find a good idea of which Silver Fire v2.5 colorant ounce quantity would be best for varying scenarios.

I'm looking at mounting my 8350 15 -16' away from a 106" screen in a most of the time controlled light room (black out drapes and maybe a bit extra to completely block out exterior light). Is 15'-16' away an OK distance for the 8350? Should it be closer? Oh, also, my ceiling is 8' high.

Right now I have a ceiling fan that hangs down with light, so I'm either looking at mounting it below that level (1' - 1.5' down), or offsetting the PJ to the side to shoot around the dome. Thoughts on that? It'd also help so I can host poker games in the room without having people sitting in direct path of the PJ. I know the 8350 has a wide range of vertical/horizontal shifting, but I don't know if it'll affect the image/brightness on one side or the other due to a horizontal shift.
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 04:34 AM
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See where hanging it at 11' 4" put it in respect to the Fan. A shorter throw is always better when ambient light resistance is needed.

Can the Fan's drop be shortened?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 06:15 AM
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Re: cost you might consider a 1/2" thick Gatorfoam board screen for this.
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 08:35 AM
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If you are not to picky about your screen and are happy to buy a refurbished 8350 then this might fit your needs:

http://www.simplylowprice.com/Focupix_Flexio_16_9_Electric_Motorized_Screen_103_p/20012.htm

http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=Home-Cinema-8350-R

They both come with free shipping and are within your $1100 budget. But if you are a DIY enthusiast like myself, go for the silverfire build. It's great fun and MM is here to help if you get stuck wink.gif
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post #9 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

See where hanging it at 11' 4" put it in respect to the Fan. A shorter throw is always better when ambient light resistance is needed.

Can the Fan's drop be shortened?

MM, I'm not quite following the first part of your post. "See where hanging it at 11'4" put it in respect to the Fan." Also, the fan's drop can't be shortened, although I plan to remove the lights eventually and put in down lighting around the room (a while out).


I'm not sure if I'm concerned too much about ambient light as most of the viewing will be in the evening/night and we plan to put up black out curtains behind the projector and in front of the windows. With that in mind, any comment on SF v2.5 x.0?


@Laserfan: I'm looking into sources of that around my area now. Any idea on costs?
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rengep View Post

If you are not to picky about your screen and are happy to buy a refurbished 8350 then this might fit your needs:

http://www.simplylowprice.com/Focupix_Flexio_16_9_Electric_Motorized_Screen_103_p/20012.htm

http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=Home-Cinema-8350-R

They both come with free shipping and are within your $1100 budget. But if you are a DIY enthusiast like myself, go for the silverfire build. It's great fun and MM is here to help if you get stuck wink.gif

Thanks for the links. That screen doesn't look too bad for $200. I'll consider it, but I'm kind of leaning towards a DIY since I do like to build stuff biggrin.gif

I've been looking at the refurb projectors, and they are definitely an options. the Epson clearance store has them for the same price, but I'm just worried about the headache if it comes defective. I hear they take care of you though.
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas_d View Post

MM, I'm not quite following the first part of your post. "See where hanging it at 11'4" put it in respect to the Fan." Also, the fan's drop can't be shortened, although I plan to remove the lights eventually and put in down lighting around the room (a while out).

I was thinking / hoping that the Throw suggested might put you /the PJ between the Screen and Fan.
Why wait for the Can lights? You can get Retro-4" Can Spots at Home Depot for $30.00 ea. There are super easy to install. You have power already, just some Romex runs and two or four round holes and that Light Dome can be history.

Quote:
I'm not sure if I'm concerned too much about ambient light as most of the viewing will be in the evening/night and we plan to put up black out curtains behind the projector and in front of the windows. With that in mind, any comment on SF v2.5 x.0?

@Laserfan: I'm looking into sources of that around my area now. Any idea on costs?

SF v2.5 2.0

Where do you live? I might be of some help locating the most affordable sources.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 11:08 AM
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Yes I have had a go at Epson and they do have a excellent costumer service. I have the 8100 and with only a month left on the warranty they swapped the main board, optical engine, lens and lamp free of charge. So it's almost new again. Had an issue with a slight curving of the top of the projected image which is all sorted now. smile.gif
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I was thinking / hoping that the Throw suggested might put you /the PJ between the Screen and Fan.
Why wait for the Can lights? You can get Retro-4" Can Spots at Home Depot for $30.00 ea. There are super easy to install. You have power already, just some Romex runs and two or four round holes and that Light Dome can be history.
SF v2.5 2.0

Where do you live? I might be of some help locating the most affordable sources.

Ah, the fan is in the center of the room, at about 8' from the screen. Would it be bad to place it @ 11'4" offset about 2' to the right?

I'm working on the fiancee' to let me do the lighting, but she has other plans for the money in the near future. If I do end up putting in new ones, I'll need to figure out placement and probably install a new dimmer to account for the lights that will be covered by the screen folded up against the ceiling. The fan is at 8' out, whereas the screen when folded may be around 5' - 5.5' from the wall.

Thanks for the SF recommendation. I'll update if/when I do it. I imagine it's a bad idea to spray the screen before stretching it onto the frame? (trying to be lazy to avoid taping the frame when spraying.)

I'm way over in Boise, ID.
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Originally Posted by rengep View Post

Yes I have had a go at Epson and they do have a excellent costumer service. I have the 8100 and with only a month left on the warranty they swapped the main board, optical engine, lens and lamp free of charge. So it's almost new again. Had an issue with a slight curving of the top of the projected image which is all sorted now. smile.gif

Thanks for the information. Maybe that will be an economical option.
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 02:46 PM
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I'm sure 2' is too much. But you can always try it by placing the PJ on a table at the proposed location and seeing how much Horizontal Shift it takes.

One thing though....as the amount of Shift in any one direction increases, the amount you can shift in the other decreases. At 2' of Horizontal Shift, you will almost assuredly have to be very exacting in your PJs height placement. My gut feeling is however, having myself installed over 20- 8350s, that what your trying to do will be well nigh impossible, or highly unlikely to give you the results you want.

And of course, there is this thing....eventually if you get around to getting rid of a Light Kit that you obviously cannot even use when watching the Screen ( ...it's not a "shielded" light and resides directly in front of the Screen... rolleyes.gif ) then you'll have to go to the trouble of remounting the PJ. Besides...it will look very bad being so off center, crowding the ceiling with oddly place gear as it will. Personally, I don't see the sense in all that.

But I tend to be opinionated, owning to the fact I'm usually responsible for installing things correctly the first time around.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #15 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 03:15 PM
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News Flash!

This just in.................,

You haven't got the 8350 yet....right? I see a Short Throw PJ in your immediate future....one you can place between the Fan and Screen, and even put high enough to just have the forward most tips of the Fan Blades miss it's arse end and yet still allow you to raise the screen against the Ceiling..

Really, with all the other rigamarole' your facing trying to compromise the 'ell out of everything...a Short Throw PJ makes a whole lot of sense.

There is the BenQ 1080st....which for a 106" screen can be placed between 5' 4" & 6' 5", well ahead of your fold-up screen. The BenQ doesn't have Lens shift, but it does have Keystone adjustment, and with that you could mount that sucka at just 8" down from the ceiling, give it just a tad bit of tilt, and have everything you really want.............,

...........except a new fiancee' who understands all about what is required to accomplish a well thought out system. Those particular types are a rare breed, and worth their weight in replacement lamps.

BTW....the paint recommendation would still be Silver Fire v2.5 2.0

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #16 of 24 Old 05-08-2013, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I'm sure 2' is too much. But you can always try it by placing the PJ on a table at the proposed location and seeing how much Horizontal Shift it takes.

One thing though....as the amount of Shift in any one direction increases, the amount you can shift in the other decreases. At 2' of Horizontal Shift, you will almost assuredly have to be very exacting in your PJs height placement. My gut feeling is however, having myself installed over 20- 8350s, that what your trying to do will be well nigh impossible, or highly unlikely to give you the results you want.

And of course, there is this thing....eventually if you get around to getting rid of a Light Kit that you obviously cannot even use when watching the Screen ( ...it's not a "shielded" light and resides directly in front of the Screen... rolleyes.gif ) then you'll have to go to the trouble of remounting the PJ. Besides...it will look very bad being so off center, crowding the ceiling with oddly place gear as it will. Personally, I don't see the sense in all that.

But I tend to be opinionated, owning to the fact I'm usually responsible for installing things correctly the first time around.

Ok, I think you've convinced me that I will need to replace the lighting before I mount the PJ. We were going to move the fan w/ light into another room anyways, so I'll just use that as an excuse to do it earlier smile.gif I would rather have it done right the first time too :/ what will happen if I don't place the projector 11'4" away? Say I put it back at 15' or 16'. Will the light loss be that detrimental?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

News Flash!

This just in.................,

You haven't got the 8350 yet....right? I see a Short Throw PJ in your immediate future....one you can place between the Fan and Screen, and even put high enough to just have the forward most tips of the Fan Blades miss it's arse end and yet still allow you to raise the screen against the Ceiling..

Really, with all the other rigamarole' your facing trying to compromise the 'ell out of everything...a Short Throw PJ makes a whole lot of sense.

There is the BenQ 1080st....which for a 106" screen can be placed between 5' 4" & 6' 5", well ahead of your fold-up screen. The BenQ doesn't have Lens shift, but it does have Keystone adjustment, and with that you could mount that sucka at just 8" down from the ceiling, give it just a tad bit of tilt, and have everything you really want.............,

...........except a new fiancee' who understands all about what is required to accomplish a well thought out system. Those particular types are a rare breed, and worth their weight in replacement lamps.

BTW....the paint recommendation would still be Silver Fire v2.5 2.0

I have not bought it yet. The Short Throw PJ you suggested does sound appealing. I kind of steered away from DLPs as i'm worried about rainbow effects. Maybe I just have read too many horror stories of people being unable to watch them (even the newer double wheels). Also, from what I understand, keystone is not optical, so it's screwing with pixels right? I'm going to be using this for a home theater, gaming use, and sometime just as a computer monitor (just because I can). Will using Keystone screw with how things are displayed when I use it as a monitor?

I think the Short throw though PJ could work out very nicely for me as it'll allow me to put in a poker table in the center of the room and still be able to use it if desired. Hmm. Choices choices. Does anyone have any experience with BenQ projectors? Customer Support? Warranty? Also, I was looking and some were commenting about focus with the 1080ST. Also, it's 1-2Month ship time from Amazon :/

I'll massage the issue with the fiancee' to see if we can make the changes to the room for the 8350, but if not, that BenQ may be the best bet.
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post #17 of 24 Old 05-08-2013, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
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@Laserfan: I'm looking into sources of that around my area now. Any idea on costs?
My 5x10' x1/2" pure white gatorfoam board was $145 +tax 5 years ago (! wow has it been that long, yes!). They cut it down from 60" for free.

My local distributor is Laird Plastics, and I found them by registering at the www.alcancompositesusa.com website. I had to "sign-up" at that site to get their distro/retailer list, but that was easy and did NOT result in any salesmen calling or frivolous emails or any such.

I believe Laird is all over the country. Mine was really nice to work with, and carry Sintra and others as well.

BTW I never painted my GF screen. No hotspotting, just 1.0 (probably less) perfection with my Mitsu HC4900 projector. All I've done with it is to trim it with stick-on 3" black felt.

http://s124.photobucket.com/user/laserfan/library/Home%20Theater?sort=3&page=1

The tricky thing about buying a hard 1/2" thick screen that size was getting it home safely. I had to transport it on a utility trailer and protecting it from the elements was nontrivial to do. Ideally you have them deliver it in a panel truck or rent such a thing or something...
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post #18 of 24 Old 05-08-2013, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
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Ok, I think you've convinced me that I will need to replace the lighting before I mount the PJ. We were going to move the fan w/ light into another room anyways, so I'll just use that as an excuse to do it earlier smile.gif I would rather have it done right the first time too :/ what will happen if I don't place the projector 11'4" away? Say I put it back at 15' or 16'. Will the light loss be that detrimental?

There is a significant difference: With a 8350 and a SF v2.5 2.0 at 15' with 100" diagonal, you'd get 20 fls. At 11' 4" it jumps to 30 fls (50% increase) and at 10' a goodly 38 fls.

The BenQ at 5.5' also delivers 38 fls
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I have not bought it yet. The Short Throw PJ you suggested does sound appealing. I kind of steered away from DLPs as i'm worried about rainbow effects. Maybe I just have read too many horror stories of people being unable to watch them (even the newer double wheels). Also, from what I understand, keystone is not optical, so it's screwing with pixels right? I'm going to be using this for a home theater, gaming use, and sometime just as a computer monitor (just because I can). Will using Keystone screw with how things are displayed when I use it as a monitor?

It should not if the amount of tilt and the resulting correction is held to a minimum. However I beleive that concern is moot because if you chose the BenQ it will be well ahead of the Fan and able to be mounted with the Lens at 7'...and the Screen top the same.

Can't do anything about RBE if you turned out to be susceptible to such. But the reality is that RBE manifests itself most as screen sizes go up. Usually, it's people whose eyes are not in parity that have the most problem, as the different focus values tend to separate the motion of the color elements, much like a prisim does a beam of white light.
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I think the Short throw though PJ could work out very nicely for me as it'll allow me to put in a poker table in the center of the room and still be able to use it if desired. Hmm. Choices choices. Does anyone have any experience with BenQ projectors? Customer Support? Warranty? Also, I was looking and some were commenting about focus with the 1080ST. Also, it's 1-2Month ship time from Amazon :/

You bet'cha it would work (...RBE notwithstanding...) especially since you game. Just imagine being able to stand within 4' of a 100" Screen and mow down the opposition (...you'll see them before they see you...) or be entirely immersed in a Racing Game. Go back and look all the way through my Thread, and use supposition to change the Tab Tensioned Screen into a Fixed Screen and postulate your end results.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432177/painting-onto-a-106-tab-tensioned-screen-with-silver-fire-v2-5-4-0
......of course placing the 8350 at it's absolute closest location...and as high as possible (Lens 7" from the ceiling) will accomplish almost as much in regard to standing close-ability. And there is the 8350's famously short lag time.


With all due respect and proper's due Laserfan and his results, I have to advise against Gatorfoam as it is a Paper laminated low density Foam product that dents and mars much too easily, and is even prone to crinkling or outright breakage if stressed very far off the perpendicular. ( That simply will never happen with Sintra and similar products. )

It must be said that Gatorfoam is nice stuff to use because it is smooth & a even white surface. But the price is not really competitive with Sintra, which usually cost less than what was stated above...and that's at today's price point. (...but what was posted might have been a Retail price...I'm used to receiving stock at wholesale...)

Checking, I could not find either a Laird Plastics or Piedmont Plastics in Idaho, let alone Boise...so that does limit you to sourcing through Sign Shops. But being west of the Continental Divide, you have Doable Board to consider (...acclaimed as the best'est Hang & Shoot of 'em all...) from Home Depot and/or Lowes. It's also crazy less expensive than Sintra / Komatex / Gatorfoam. However it''s available only in 4' x 8' so that restricts your screen size to 100". But doable is the heaviest of the three.....and gatorfoam the lightest...so there is that. I do however feel Sintra / Komatex at 4' x 8' x 6mm cut to 48" x 85" would be the very best choice, and would require a minimal Frame for support.
Quote:
I'll massage the issue with the fiancee' to see if we can make the changes to the room for the 8350, but if not, that BenQ may be the best bet.

Massage in any case....it pays to get brownie points at all times.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #19 of 24 Old 05-08-2013, 10:51 AM
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Gatorfoam requires careful handling, that is very true, but upon getting it home safely, and after 5 years in my adult household of putting it up & taking it down frequently, it has been projection screen perfection at a dirt cheap price.

I don't know Sintra; it seems to me that it was at Laird when I visited there 5 yrs ago but only in Grey. Nor do I know if Sintra come thick enough i.e. stiff enough to rotate up and out-of-the-way as the OP seemed interested in doing, so I defer to experience.
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post #20 of 24 Old 05-08-2013, 02:27 PM
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No doubt, 1/2" Gatorfoam is both rigid and light.

For such a use as Douglas_d envisions, both materials will require a Frame.

If upon careful inspection Douglas_d finds a sheet of GF that is pristine...and "if" he makes it through the build / paint process with it unscathed, I will agree that GF will be the lightest material to work with.

Douglas_d.....,

Painting on GF requires that the rear be primed at least with 2 light coats,to prevent warp-age. GF is so lightweight, it will warp...even at 1/2 thick, if the SF paint contracts as it dries / cures, and the sheet is not adequately held square by a Frame. In your case, and owing to the probable need to have the Frame be fairly lightweight itself, the rear Priming will serve to seal the back side against moisture....as well as help to prevent any "stress related cupping" caused by paint contraction.

Lastly, wrapping the rear frame of the Screen with a colored Spandex, one that possibly closely matches your Ceiling color, will make the entire assembly look very neat and refined.

Extra lastly......Upon reflection (...a horrible pun....) I feel Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 might be the better choice if the BenQ is used.

Stay in touch Doug.....and ask questions before they become issues. Always the best course....don't rush....wait for assuring responses.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #21 of 24 Old 06-20-2013, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, well I got started and have made a fair amount of progress on my build (and I have PICTURES!)

The first thing I did was finish painting the room. I did a gold around the side walls and then a flat black on the wall with the projector. After doing that, we decided to just go for it and paint the ceiling black too.

It turned out pretty decent. I still need to go around and touch-up the joining top, but you can't really tell from here smile.gif


Next I had a buddy with a wood shop help me cut my 106" poplar frame. I went off the tutorial someone wrote up and posted here . I used 1x4" board, first running the sides through the table saw to make them all the same width. Then we used a Dado and a few scrap pieces to get the right width and depth for the rail channel. After the channels were cut and we mitered the corners, I brought all the pieces back home and started putting the aluminum screen rails in. I used the spray adhesive to make sure the rails weren't going to move, as the dado blade cut the channel just a hair too wide. No biggy.

Here is the blue painters tape going on the rails to make sure I don't make them super sticky while applying the velveteen.


After spraying and applying the velveteen with the adhesive, I took a straight edge (Measuring Square) and box cutters to cut out the velveteen from around the channel. Turned out pretty good on each piece.

All the pieces laying and ready to be joined. I used a biscuit cutter another friend had to make channels at the ends so the joints would be a bit stronger.

Coming together pretty well!

Now to put the blackout cloth on the frame. I purchased some BOC from Jo-Ann's and turns out my 106" frame was just a bit too wide for it. The 106" diagonals including the extra 1" on each side for the frame turned out to be 54". The BOC was just about 54", but more like 52" un-stretched. I was really hopeful that I would be able to stretch it out and put it on the frame anyways, but you'll see how that went.

Looks good so far (I had to use tacks on the bottom to get it to stay... the spline kept coming out every time I would try to put in the bottom side.

It didn't matter, it was too much for the spline up top to. So now I get to order some wider cloth.

Now's a good time to put up the curtains while I wait for the new screen material.

And now to put together the slider system. I'm using 18" cabinet drawer slides so I can slide the screen into place and fold it up out of the way when I don't want it. I'm basically using the method as specified in 1) of my first post. I used a 2x4 board to anchor the screen to as the ceiling joists were nowhere near where I wanted to put the screen. It also acts as a spacer for the ceiling so I can fold t he screen up without having to figure out some fancy brackets. You can see how it would be when it's folded up in the following picture. Imagine that the floor is actually the ceiling and that's how the screen will be stored.

Got it mounted in the corner of the room. I used a Kreg pocket hole jig (can see the holes in the previous picture) to hang the 2x4 in the top corner.



Here's the screen hung after I took the original screen out.


I had to offset the slider rails on the back of the screen frame because of the 6" L brackets I used to join the pieces of the frame. I stacked 2 washers to straighten out the rails.

The new wider (66") BOC arrived from Amazon (Hurray Prime). Got it splined in using a thicker spline this time too. I think I used 0.160. The guide used 0.125 with the seymore AT material. Don't know if the BOC is just thinner, but this worked alright for me. It took a bit more work to spline in the material, but it turned out ok.


I tacked the ends using a single staple on each spline. I didn't want to take the chance that they would just start unraveling, so I thought this would be good enough.

Because I have the 2x4 at the top, I had to figure out how to make sure the screen is perpendicular to the projector screen and parallel to the wall. I used 2 magnetic door stops to offset the screen from the wall. I had to put a couple shims behind the main arm to make sure the screen was straight up and down.


Screen hung with the BOC splined in. Just need to put the curtain back up and test her out.


Unfortunately, I'm on my 3rd :| Epson 8350 Refurbished unit. The first 2 had convergence issues and the 3rd has this bad blue hue on the left side side. Also, the right side won't focus, no matter how much I try. I can get the left side perfectly focused, but the right always looks smeared. At this point I just requested a refund from Epson and they honored that. I gotta figure out my next move on a projector. :/ The Short throw option went out the window as there is only 5' between the screen and the tip of the ceiling fan blade. Looking at the Benq, it would require about 5'4" or 5'6" at a minimum. Maybe I'll get super adventurous and decide to move the fan back so I can put that projector in there, but I don't really feel like doing that... so maybe I'll just spend the money and buy a brand new Epson 8350.

Like I said in an earlier post, the original ceiling fan with light kit was hung too low for use with the projector. I replaced it with a new one that matched the room and pushed more air. Works great and it is high enough to be out of the way of the projected image. I had to hick up the pull chain though or it hung down about an inch into the image.


A couple prelim shots with a lamp behind me for ambient light. I need to install some wall sconce and will probably get around to that this weekend. Until then, It's a lamp and some lovely beach chairs (Gotta find the money to buy some nice theater seats... a while out though).









Last note - After pulling the BOC onto the frame and hanging it on the wall, I found that the center of the top frame sags down. It's about 5-6 pixels worth of sag in the middle, making it annoying when using the screen as a computer monitor. Testing it out using movies makes it seem less noticeable, but when I have a 1.85 ratio movie showing, you can see the top/bottom just barely and the sag sticks out. I'm trying to brainstorm ideas on what to do to fix this. I was thinking of maybe putting a couple metal L brackets at the mid point of the top and bottom frame pieces and then putting in a rod that I could adjust out/in to stretch the frame back square. I worry that going with this approach would just cause the bottom section to sag down so that they are both out of whack. I did respline the top section to maybe relieve it of some of the tension, but by the time I got to it, I think it'd had already permanently warped the poplar.

Next stop: Mount the brackets to hold the screen on the ceiling and then doing the SF spraying. I have all the material, although sourcing enough Basic Silver was a bit of a challenge. I ended up ordering a bunch of the 4 oz. packs from Amazon. I don't know when I'll get around to spraying, but I know it'll be a bit because I want to browse a bit more around the forums to get a better idea on what I'm done.
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post #22 of 24 Old 06-20-2013, 01:45 PM
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You can substantially stiffen the center Horizontals by using 2 "Straight" 3" x 6" Metal Strapping, one each placed one the rear( @ center ) with each end touching, and 2 "L" Braces at each corner.

You don't have any "Verticals, and BOC requires just enough tension to bow in the center on any screen over 82", and the effect increased with additional width. The above will help, but nothing would be better than having a center vertical brace.

I don't know if you have gained much more space than was absolutely needed to clear the Window trim, but if there is at least 3/8", then simply use a 1x4 set in 1/4" in from the front edge (screen back)

Measure the inside distance between the Top & Bottom Horizontals at the extreme inside corners, then precisely cut the 1x4 to that measurement. ( You can shave / sand down the inside edges of each end to create a very slight slope that lets you get the Brace up into the Horizontial...)

Carefully wedge the vertical 1x4 in at dead center, until the forward face is 1/4" (1/8" if you real good.) off the inside surface of the BOC.

Now, using small "Inside Corner" L-Brackets one each side of the Vertical...Top and Bottom...lock it into place.

Using Dried Poplar, and with the "Inside L-s", your frame should be sturdy enough to withstand repeated raising / lowering without springing or warping....and you center bowed area will be gone, or reduced to less than a 1/32"

All you have to do is to allow / provide 1/4" to as little as 1/8" additional clearance off the Window Trim.

Ya gotta know this, if your screen was "ANY" larger, you would have been forced out of hand to consider central bracing.

So you can try the "Strong Tie Braces only first, and save the central Vertical as "last ditch".

Excluding all that, once you get ready to, and spray, the tighter surface will make all the difference. As it is, I'm jamming' on your future potential. What you already shown deserves effusive plaudits.cool.gif

BTW, you might want to consider / include the BenQ w1070 on your short list. DLP w/ H&V Len Shift and great 3D as well, all for the same (...or very close...) price as a "Factory New" 8350. When matched up with SF 2.5 4.0 your 10K:1 DLP Contrast will be looking as good as a Epson 5020's 320K:1 Consider as well that on Econo, the BenQ's lamp0 is rated at 6000 hours.. Sealed Light Engine too.

You should know, coming from an avowed Epson fan, that suggestion comes from me seeing some obvious improvements and advantages in these newer DLPs that were not available in 2010, when I took up the 8350's torch.
Lately, I've been installing a bunch of BenQ sp890s and sp940s on some very large Drywall screens as well as re-painted Tab Tensioned types for well lit boardrooms and such, and those machines are .......well, awesome.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #23 of 24 Old 06-22-2013, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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MM,

Thank's for the reply. I'm sorry, but your post is a bit confusing to me. Do you have any examples of what you're talking about?

For the 3x6" strapping, I'm not sure what these look like or how they would help.

For the 1x4 vertical brace set in 1/4", I'm don't know how I would wedge it in anywhere, unless I screwed in some sort of bracket on the back side of the existing frame and then wedged it in between that. Is that what you're trying to get at?

I've attached a quick little sketch I did in Paint. Let me know if this is what you were talking about or if I'm off somewhere else.



I appreciate all your advice. The other half was super excited when she finally saw it all up and working.

After reading your post about the W1070 and doing a bit of research myself, I decided to pull the trigger on it and it should be here sometime today. Picked it up from Amazon for $929, so I'd say that's not too bad of a deal. I'm hoping we aren't susceptible to RBE, but we should know soon enough smile.gif Once I get the new projector in place (and move the mount as needed frown.gif and get the sagging figured out, I'll get to the painting!

I saw in one of the vast number of posts you've made that you had some recommendations on settings for taking screenshots of the setup. I don't have any fancy camera, but any help with my point and shoot would help better portray how things look.
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post #24 of 24 Old 06-23-2013, 11:15 AM
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Upon closer examination I see your point. Placing the Screen Tight directly on the rear is the reason...it's not standard practice to do so, or to wrap / stretch any fabric across the face of the rear of a Frame.....unless your a Screen Mfg and using "Snaps" back there.

In any case, it's long been advised that the amount of depth between the face of the screen material and the top of the exterior Frame be as little as possible...and 3/4" depth doesn't really fit that need. Unless the projected image is absolutely squared and hits the screen centered Top & Bottom & Side too Side, there is always at least a slight shadow cast onto the outside edge of the screen, at one location or another....sometimes in two places. We usually suggest using 1/2" thick Trim, the type whose leading edge actually tapers down to less than 1/8"....or even becomes virtually flush with the surface of the screen.

It may seem trivial.....but once you have a screen that looks great in most every sense, the smallest things that are "not quite right" seem to take on a more critical bent. And that's no fun. So mostly we convince people to frontal wrap screens. In your case, a rear BOC installation usually involves placing the Screen Tight as close to the rear side's inside edge as possible, then applying an additional 2x2 frame on the outside, complete with central Braces. Mind you, that is when the screen is really bigger than 106" diagonal. I really haven't seen many BOC / Screen Tight installas, mostly the ST has been used with Spandex, which of course does not require the degree of pull to become flat and smooth that BOC does.

So as far as a correction, yes...a "L" bracket at top & bottom that would accept a stout 1x4" Poplar stick might just be the answer. You only need to be certain the forward face lies just off the surface of the BOC and you'll be OK.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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