What paint/paint mixture should I be going with? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-13-2013, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I recently bought a new home and got a small media room(13X15) with it. No windows and my wife is going to let me paint the walls whatever color I want.

I am planning on going flat black on the screen wall and the ceiling and a dark gray/blue on the rest of the walls.

I have already purchased an Epson 8350 for the room.

I originally was reading about the silverfire and got some good advice from MississippiMan. He has convinced me to float a smooth surface on the wall and use that as my screen.

I've read about so many paints over the last week my head is spinning....SilverFire V2, RS-MaxxMudd, Sherwin Williams, Behr Silver Screen, Black Widow, C&S

Too many choices and I don't understand how they all differ and which one works best in my situation.

My question is,

Is Silverfire V2 2.0 the correct paint choice? It seems complicated but doable... I've never had a projector or screen before so this is all very new to me.

Also, I'm not doubting MM on his advice to use Silverfire 2.0... I just jumped straight to that thread and started asking question so I want to make sure I didn't miss a better solution for my situation.

Thanks for any help!
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post #2 of 23 Old 05-13-2013, 01:01 PM
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Heh. I had exactly the same confusion, and asked it here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468540/paint-choice-confusion-silverfire-v-maxmudd

My understanding, and I'm sure the elders of the forum will correct me if I've got this wrong, is that Silverfire is best for situations with a fair amount of ambient light ... and/or use with a very bright projector with which you're trying to improve the darkness of full-black scenes.

I've got a fairly well light-controlled basement and a comparatively dim projector, so I'm going with MaxMudd. If you have no windows and thus no ambient light to deal with, I believe Silverfire could work for you if you've got a "torch" of a projector.

That said, I'd take whatever MM says as gospel, personally. smile.gif
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post #3 of 23 Old 05-13-2013, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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THanks for the quick reply qBaz!

I have total light control also. I haven't read that much about the maxxmudd...

Are you going to spray it or roll it?

Are you using maxxmudd or maxxmudd LL?

Thanks!

Have you done yours yet? It looks like from your thread you were going to roll it...
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post #4 of 23 Old 05-14-2013, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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How does Silverfire V2 2.0 compare to RS-MaxxMudd LL?

I think I have narrowed it down to these 2...... I think...
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post #5 of 23 Old 05-14-2013, 09:46 AM
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I'll leave the comparisons to those with more experience, but I can tell you that I'll be going with MaxMudd LL, and I've come around to spraying it. I bought the "no-name" sprayer that's frequently mentioned in this forum for $50, figuring I'd find other things around the house to use it on. (painting the fence, changing kids' room colors, chasing the cats around, etc).

That said, I was assured by pb_maxx that MaxxMudd LL could be successfully rolled, if done carefully.
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post #6 of 23 Old 05-14-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhard77 View Post

How does Silverfire V2 2.0 compare to RS-MaxxMudd LL?

I think I have narrowed it down to these 2...... I think...

RS-MM-LL is a much lighter shade of Silver/Gray....almost Whitish-Silver. It does improve the perception of contrast differences, and it absolutely does produce a vibrant, deeply saturated image. Lastly, it's "roll-able"...which can make all the difference in the world to some. because of it's lighter shade and higher gain, it obviously doesn't have the ambient light resistance of Silver Fire applications. But it still does such a chore far far better than any White surface of similar or lessor gain could ever manage.

SF v2 2.0 is at least 3x darker a shade than RS-MM-LL, yet it still is considered a very light Silvery Gray.

Silver Fire just takes every advantage inherent in RS-MaxxMudd applications and further improves upon them. Blacks are even Blacker, Colors are deeply saturated without being "Bloomy", Shadow Detail is extremely improved, and of course, the darker shading combined with the retention of gain puts SF apps into a entire different "Ambient Light Resistant" category than any other DIY applications out there. Yessir...it has to be spray applied....not rolled, but such as it is, it's simply a case where the effort expended is worth the end results obtained, if such results are needed.

qBaz,

Thanks for posting! I had this response on my PC, but seemed to never hit "submit" and found it waiting once I returned. Glad you've determined to get'ter dun!

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post #7 of 23 Old 05-14-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you MississippiMan! That was the exact explanation that I was looking for.

I have overcome my fear of spraying and have the no-name sprayer ordered!

I will go ahead with the SF v2 2.0.... Which is what you recommended to me in the first place...

Sometimes I read too much into this forum, it is amazing how much information is contained in one place!

I'll post some results to let you guys know how it turns out, and I will probably have more questions before I am through!

Lane
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post #8 of 23 Old 05-14-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhard77 View Post


Sometimes I read too much into this forum, it is amazing how much information is contained in one place!

I'll post some results to let you guys know how it turns out, and I will probably have more questions before I am through!

Lane

By all means do! Far better to ask first, than to receive condolences afterward.

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post #9 of 23 Old 05-22-2013, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Update: I have floated the wall to smooth. At least what I think is smooth. That wasn't the easiest thing to do, nor was it really that hard. Pretty darn labor intensive, but hell I needed a good workout. wink.gif

So, what next.... Should I do a couple of coats of primer??

I think I read somewhere, 2 coats of "Gripper by Glidden" primer followed by a coat of Behr 1850.... Then sand again for baby butt smooth..

Is this correct?
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post #10 of 23 Old 05-22-2013, 01:14 PM
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Just prime, sand, and start painting in ernest.


But do examine the primed surface carefully because if anything needs correcting, you'll want to do it before you start painting.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-22-2013, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this sounds stupid.... But, what am I looking for when I examine the surface? Spots that aren't primed or......

I have been practicing with the sprayer by spraying the primer. It seems to be taking a lot of coats. I'm onto my 5th coat so far. But, I haven't put them on heavy... I have about 1/2 of my second quart left. I guess I will just use that up and call it good enough..

Tomorrow is the big day for spraying the silver fire.. I am excited, and a little nervous.. Fingers crossed it goes well!!

Edit: Ok. Now I know what to look for and my wall looks like garbage... Lovely. eek.gif

I see 2 different lines that i didn't see before, and 2 areas where there are a bunch of little pinholes... Then there are several areas(fairly small) that look like gouges, probably just didn't get enough mud when I was floating it. Now that I have primed it.. How do I fix it?? mad.gif
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-22-2013, 07:26 PM
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Don't beat yerself up...you did do the examination and caught it / them in time

Use more mud...a little on a fingertip or flexible blade and press the mud into the pinholes and let dry. Wipe just enough mud directly on top of the scratches to fill them.

After those repairs are dry, go back over the areas with enough mud to feather out just a ways from the repaired blemished areas. Now sand down the edges until the edges start to disappear. Then very lightly brush sand the areas directly over the center of the repairs.

Finally, lightly dust on primer over the affected areas until after it drys you cannot see the difference.

Personally I'm proud you got the examination done. Many fail to do so and get 2-3 dusters into the finish coat before they discover such issues. They would / are faced with the same fix...only they have to re-prime the whole screen. eek.gif

But it's not a bad idea to give the entire surface a final very light duster of primer to be certain the entire surface is uniform.
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-23-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Update #2: The wall was super easy to fix after it was primed. I filled all the holes and gouges, sanded, and re-primed the enitire screen area.

Now for the silver fire! smile.gif

I mixed all the supplies together this morning... That was kind of a pain in the ass.. Haha.. It was much messier and harder to deal with the liquitex paints than I had imagined. Oh well, its done now..

My 4th coat of silver fire is drying as we speak..

Should I do a light sanding of the silver fire at some point?

So far it looks awesome! smile.gif

I can't wait to see the finished product!!
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-23-2013, 05:29 PM
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A light sanding at 4 coats, then following with two more light dusters is a excellent way to get a "best possible" finish.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-27-2013, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I wanted to share a quick pic of my Silver Fire V2.5 2.0 screen. I have just finished the trim on it....

So far it looks great!

Although I haven't had time to get my projector back up on the ceiling yet, so I have no idea how it performs!!!
That will be the next picture!

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post #16 of 23 Old 05-27-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhard77 View Post

I wanted to share a quick pic of my Silver Fire V2.5 2.0 screen. I have just finished the trim on it....

So far it looks great!

Although I haven't had time to get my projector back up on the ceiling yet, so I have no idea how it performs!!!
That will be the next picture!


I see some great potential. The side lighting is casting quite a bit of light onto each side, but the umbra of light is fairly diffuse and the edges non-defined, so that bodes well as far as the finish being "spot on" correct.

I personally am impressed...the workmanship looks to be exemplary.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #17 of 23 Old 05-27-2013, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I see some great potential. The side lighting is casting quite a bit of light onto each side, but the umbra of light is fairly diffuse and the edges non-defined, so that bodes well as far as the finish being "spot on" correct.

I personally am impressed...the workmanship looks to be exemplary.

Thanks MM! That is a heck of a compliment!

I have to say your directions and guidance are what got me to this point. I also referenced an older post of yours about how to wrap the black velvet on mitered edges. It turned out perfect!!

In person, the screen is impressive with the lights on, just as you were saying.

I plan on having the projector back up tomorrow and will get some screen shots up and post my thoughts on the screen.

I am having a blast working on this, even my wife gave me her approval that the screen look really good.
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 11:30 AM
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I'm curious how your SFv2 screen turned out, lhard. I'm about to do the same to my screen which is a laminate material so should be free from blemishes. My concern is any hotspotting with so much reflective material. Do you find the screen evenly lit from every viewing angle?
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 11:59 AM
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wickPhd,

We can't be sure lhard77 will respond too quickly if he's immersed himself in that new screen. biggrin.gif

So until he does, tell me something about your system's goals and considerations. If SF is to be in consideration, enough info and I can suggest a specific formula.

But know this....almost no end user ever posts about hot spotting. And if they do it's usually because they mistake Hot Spotting for simple particle reflections "ie: sparklies. That is even rarer these days with SF v2.5 formulas.

Viewing cone issues are basically non-existent While some slight degree of drop=off does exist, it's so small that it cannot be judged by the eye as one moves out of axis. The lack of such concerns has always been one3 of the strong suits of our reflective mixes. Even distribution of reflective light is the key.

And so be sure, if no one hardly ever posts about hot spotting, and among those who do are not really seeing such, then chances are, you'll do fine.

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post #20 of 23 Old 07-12-2013, 06:30 PM
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That's good to know, MM. That was my main concern with SF was that moving from one place to another you'd see the gain of the screen and it would distort the viewing perception for anyone at rather large off-angles. That and seeing speckles.

A bit about my setup, I've got a completely light controlled basement which I've painted all dark colors (biggest improvement in contrast imaginable). I'm running a Mitsubishi HC4000 projector on a 7.5' wide screen. Not the brightest projector out there but a great image at that size. For serious movie watching it will be totally dark but for casual viewing we might have a dim light or two on.

I actually love the image with just laminate and the Behr primer which you use as the SF base. I've been happy with that for a few months and everyone raves about it. However I know I can improve the black levels a bit with a slightly gray screen and that's mainly what I'm looking to do.

Right now I run the PJ in low lamp mode to save on the bulb and fan noise. I'm hoping to deepen the blacks and stay at low mode but not lose brightness. Is this possible? If I have to switch to standard it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Thanks so much!
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post #21 of 23 Old 07-13-2013, 03:53 AM
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Bumping up to RS-MaxxMudd -S (standard) is a good compromise that assures you of the needed gain, yet reduces most all chance of seeing any graininess if sprayed on.

The SF v2.5 equivalent that would have near the same gain yet do a bit more black level enhancement would be the 2.0
It too has virtually no reports of Grain / Sparklies.

The best thing going for us all has been the recent (2-3 years) of metallic ingredients that are of fine granular consistency. This has allowed more "packing" of metallic content, and when additional masking was needed, the addition of more UPW as a balancing factor has also served to mute granularity while still maintaining gain levels.

BTW, the tendency to see such artifacts is traced back to the angle by which the projected image hits the screen. The lower toward screen center the Lens is as relates to viewing angle,the more potential that the structure of the surface can be resolved. Most Ceiling mount situations are absolved of such, excepting when a PJ is very high up and the viewer is very low, which works to present the sane viewing angle of reflection when one gazes upward at a angle.

That explains why the few who are troubled with such have not / did not see such artifacts until they changed seating positions / arrangements. Also, the ability to resolve slight texture / grain varies widely among people. Those with 20/15 vision or better ( Lasik patients) are the most affected. They seem to view the world under a Magnifying glass. smile.gif

But in the all in all, not much is offered up these days in the way of complaints about graininess unless it really seems to come from those determined to create an issue about it. That usually involves those who simply discount the use of such metallic s, and who by the very nature of things have not themselves ever tried such an application.

Go figure. rolleyes.gif

Even so, sensitivity to such proclamations is what drives the continued advances in these type mixes. Trying to make them be acceptable to all the more people possible without detracting from the performance their very design allows is what DIY Screen Alchemy is all about. wink.gif

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post #22 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 09:20 AM
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Very cool. Thanks for the reply! As far as calibration goes, are you able to get a flat 2.2 gamma with either mix? I'm probably going to give SF a try despite my concerns about how aggressive it is in almost every way. But if it ends up with the best picture then aggressive is the way to go! With SF2.5 at a mix level 2.0 will I need to add more light to get the brightness where it is now with a white wall?
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post #23 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 12:27 PM
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In most every important aspect you will already be there. But if your looking to have a light Gray / Silver mix show the same level of white as a white sheet of paper when directly compared, that won't happen.

Surface Gain so high that a Gray would show a "White" as bright as or brighter than a 1.0 gain White Surface would also have all those nasty elements you want to avoid.

However, your perceived White Levels will be excellent standing alone, and the deepened Blacks only serve to enhance that perception.

As far as calibration goes...your in for a treat when you see how little will need to be done to zero in on the most accurate image you can.

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