Good mid-level Screen Materials - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 05-15-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Looking at making my own screen (roughly 100 to 110").
I wanted to use a product that produces really good results at a reasonable cost.
I need something that can tolerate (help with) a little bit of ambient light on occasion.

I came across these two products (see links).
Anyone ever used them or if not - what are your thoughts on them?

Thanks!

http://www.buildyourownprojectionscreen.com/projection-screen-materials

http://www.projectorpeople.com/screens/projectionscreenmaterial.asp
zamboni driver is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 05-16-2013, 04:43 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Hello zamboni driver!

And welcome aboard the AVS DIY Screens Forum, and to the AVS Community as a whole!

The materials you listed are very basic Vinyl / PVC sheeting. They are at best simply "adequate" and are primarily intended as simple, easy solutions.

They are also materials that we do not advocate using on this Forum, being that they are marketed and sold as being specifically Mfg and intended for use as "Projection Screen" materials..

Here on this Forum we advocate finding and using materials and paints that can exceed the performance values of such Mfg Screen material offerings, all the while as we maintain a true approach to DIY'ism that excludes the use of anything so designated as being "Made for Projection Screen use".

That being the case, with almost no exceptions, you will find more advice and actual commentary o0n such materials on the "Screens" Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/f/23/screens

Or.....stick around here and get real value and performance for a fraction of the cost of high performance screens. Nothing we advocate is ever to be considered "make do".

Relate specifically the details of your system:

Projector and Placement options thereof
Room Size and Dimensions
Positioning of Light Sources / Windows
Seating Distance


With those details, we can determine what type of Screen is IDEAL for your situation, and then provide detailed help and instructions on the building of such.
We hope you will consider this course as being not just a viable alternative, but a wholly desirable one to approach with enthusiasm and great expectations.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #3 of 26 Old 05-16-2013, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks MississippiMan!
Wow - what a welcome.

I'm all for creativity and ingenuity. I have a very limited budget - but that I don't think should curtail me from still developing something that will be both pleasing to look at (well not butt ugly anyways) and functional to boot.

I will look around to see what has been done.

The projector is a Panasonic AE2000U
Rear placement - ceiling (ceiling is only like 9' high)
Seating distance is about 13' from screen location.
Room dimension is hard to be too precise because it isn't a dedicated room...and opens up to other parts of the home. (So that should give you some idea of lighting issues too). Basically it's located in a walk-out basement living room which is "roughly" 14' by say 30' but the area of the projector will be more like 13' X 13'.

So there is some ambient light coming in from windows (even when shades are pulled) etc. But in the evening - it can be pitch dark if needed. Since this going to be used almost entirely for movie watching, we will try to have as little light as possible. My kids however will probably want to watch movies not only at night but say afternoon as well so I definitely won't have it completely dark in those conditions. Will have ambient light coming in from windows.
zamboni driver is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 05-16-2013, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oops! I said room dimensions where 13' X 13' - I meant more like 14' X 15'. Sorry,
zamboni driver is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 05-17-2013, 01:28 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 215
The AE2000 is not really all that bright a projector, so keeping within / at 100" diagonal is your first best step.

This opens you up to several choices, the best and least expensive of which is painting an applicable high gain, high contrast coating onto a White, solid substrate

Neither of the materials you were considering above are well suited for your purpose. The first being both expensive and sub-1.0 gain, the latter being even more expensive and still under 1.0 gain.

The need for even occasional watching in ambient light combined with your PJs performance envelope necessitates the need for an effective positive gain Gray surface solution.

Using a painted surface with those qualities will assure you of having a surface that is not laden with texture, nor nearly as expensive. It does however require at least a degree of DIY'ism...not really much removed from constructing a frame and stretching Mfg Cloth across it and trimming it out with a boarder, just a different approach. By any reasonable estimate, the overall cost would be in the range of the the cost of the first "linked to" material alone, but well under the cost of the latter. (by 75% less)

Now first, the placement of the PJ should be optimized. Mounting it so the face of the Lens is at 10' 4" is a biggie.9' 10" is the minimum required for a 100" diagonal image, so your close to that but not so close that you do not have some adjust-ability with your Zoom, but close enough your not wasting any of the PJ's luminosity.

A 4' x 8' sheet of Thrifty White Hardboard at Home Depot cost $13.00 (...not 6.75 sq.ft. rolleyes.gif ) Cut to 85" x 48" = 100" diagonal
A simple Light neutral Gray paint mixed from a Interior Flat Enamel and applied via a Roller is silly inexpensive. Combining such with a few extra ingredients can up the gain to just over 1.0. Total cost of a good paint mix? approx: $50.00
If you wanted to / could, spraying whatever coating would be preferable. A good Sprayer we suggest often only cost $50.00
Great looking Black Velvet Trim would add about $40.00
Miscellaneous materials: $30.00

Most expensive combination of the above: $183.00 . That is just $15.00 more that the basic cost of the least expensive Mfg material, sans any expense for Frame building or Trim.

So at this conjecture, the real questions are:

How good do you want your end results to be?
How much DIY'ism can you / are you willing to contribute to achieve "best case" results.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #6 of 26 Old 05-17-2013, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
MississippiMan- Thank You!!

I want to explore every possibility and then make a final decision.
How does one define their DIY'ism ability? In general, if I can do it (without the need of high cost material or tools) I almost always opt for it (if I have time).
Is my ability top-notch? Probably not compared to many of you out there - but I still do a slew of other DIY'ism projects anyways...I find them fun and rewarding.
That might be my problem is tend to try to take on too many DIY'ism sometimes.

But for this - this is fun stuff so I'm all for it!

I could swap out the AE2000U with an Optoma HD20 but I felt the AE2000U gave me more flexibility. Both are used and about the same in use. The Optoma has lower bulb life, but I have extra bulbs for the AE2000.

At any rate - that all sounds within reasonable for budget for sure.
zamboni driver is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 05-17-2013, 04:31 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Well hang on....I'll provide some fodder to chew on after I get back from screening the new Star Trek in 3D

All in the name of Work...I'm a slave to my desires.cool.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #8 of 26 Old 05-17-2013, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Can do!
Love to hear how the movie was - but I suppose that is for a different forum.
zamboni driver is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 05-17-2013, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Has anyone tried to build a screen in a similar approach to how Projector Central built one (many moons ago)?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/diy_screen.htm
zamboni driver is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 05-18-2013, 07:44 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni driver View Post

Can do!
Love to hear how the movie was - but I suppose that is for a different forum.

Nonsense! We make screens to watch movies on.....so I always like to get a handle on what type content is coming down the Pike. The newest Start Trek is a bit more vibrant and contrast'y, and the 3D effects were superb. Flying through Space in a Powered Body Suit while dodging debris was a visual delight, and a real "head ducker" of an experience. Carol Marcus in her Underwear in 3D was OK too, but I didn't see "her" jump off the Screen and give any Lap Dances. J.J. Abrams let us down there...... tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni driver View Post

Has anyone tried to build a screen in a similar approach to how Projector Central built one (many moons ago)?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/diy_screen.htm

Of course, but the results were sporadic and basically underwhelming. It is after all just a white screen. Most people these days still don't have PJs with 100K:1 "Native Contrast", nor ideally suited non-reflective Room surfaces or correctly positioned lighting, and by far the majority who post on this Forum seem to state that even with light control they expect there to be some ambient light present more oft than not. With that in mind, anyone who want the best overall performance under a variety of conditions must match the Room / PJ / Screen attributes as ideally as possible. White screens have a very limited scope of flexibility in that regard.

Take your Panny 2000. It's contrast is it's weakest feature. You could do as I suggested above and mix a light neutral Gray into the SW paint, roll apply it to the TWH, and be reasonably happy. Reasonably....but not ecstatic.

Instead, go with RS-MaxxMudd (regular), spray it on using the Graco 2900, and do the "Happy Dance".cool.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #11 of 26 Old 05-19-2013, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
mississippiman - I want to do the happy dance.
Looking at trying your recipe for a screen using the TWH.
You said go with the RS-MaxxMudd regular - stupid question but why did you choose that over the LL version?

Also - not to jump around too much - but what is your take on the Laminate Option for a screen?
Like I said - just trying to understand all the "choices".

Thanks!
zamboni driver is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 05-20-2013, 04:47 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni driver View Post

mississippiman - I want to do the happy dance.
Looking at trying your recipe for a screen using the TWH.
You said go with the RS-MaxxMudd regular - stupid question but why did you choose that over the LL version?

If you can spray, the the RS-MM-R will result in a slightly darker Silvery Gray, and that will do even more to enhance the weaker contrast of either their PJs being considered. It still has gain though, which would also be needed in your instance.
Quote:
Also - not to jump around too much - but what is your take on the Laminate Option for a screen?
Like I said - just trying to understand all the "choices".

Thanks!

Laminate is somewhat risky stuff to work with, because it's fragile and can crack easily. Smaller screens have tendency to hot spot. The Gray version (Fashion Gray) has seemed especially prone to such.

Depending upon the source, larger than normal sizes can be had than many other substrates....and it can be painted upon as well. However when considering a screen at / under 100" you have several, more forgiving and convenient substrate choices.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #13 of 26 Old 05-20-2013, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What about white polywall panel or panelboard or is hardboard the best?
zamboni driver is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 05-20-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My HD doesn't have the white hardboard (well they do but only in 3X7). They have the brown (non painted) but can you paint that? It seems pretty slick - would you have to primer first?
zamboni driver is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 05-20-2013, 10:04 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni driver View Post

My HD doesn't have the white hardboard (well they do but only in 3X7). They have the brown (non painted) but can you paint that? It seems pretty slick - would you have to primer first?

Yes. I myself have used the smooth, Brown Hardboard. Now because it's not "coated" with White Melamine, you have to inspect the surface for obvious scratches and / or dents. After your approval of same, then 3 sprayed (...or 2 rolled... frown.gif ) coatings of Glidden "White" Gripper Primer and a quick sweep sanding with a Fine Grit Sanding Sponge and you'll be ready to roll (...I mean SPRAY ! mad.gif )

tongue.gifbiggrin.gifwink.gifcool.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #16 of 26 Old 05-20-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I found the RS-MaxxMudd thread.
I'm guessing all I need to know about how to create that paint mix is in that thread.
(Like how to combine and mix etc...)

Any other words of instructions (on how to mix the paint or other) you might want to add that perhaps are buried in the thread but I don't want to mess up on? wink.gif
zamboni driver is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 05-23-2013, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
MississippiMan - (or anyone) besides the hardboard - what other substrate works well for painting?
The hardboard comes in 4'x8' sheets, but what if I needed something slightly larger? Because even the 4'x8' won't give me a 100" screen (espcially by the time I put a border on it).
zamboni driver is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 05-23-2013, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

If you can spray, the the RS-MM-R will result in a slightly darker Silvery Gray, and that will do even more to enhance the weaker contrast of either their PJs being considered. It still has gain though, which would also be needed in your instance.
Laminate is somewhat risky stuff to work with, because it's fragile and can crack easily. Smaller screens have tendency to hot spot. The Gray version (Fashion Gray) has seemed especially prone to such.

Depending upon the source, larger than normal sizes can be had than many other substrates....and it can be painted upon as well. However when considering a screen at / under 100" you have several, more forgiving and convenient substrate choices.

Sorry - so you sorta already answered that. My next question was can I use laminate (yes, but better choices).
For larger sizes of material (bigger than 4'x8') what do I have for some good choices (that hopefully don't way a ton).

Thanks!!!!
zamboni driver is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 05-23-2013, 10:18 PM
Member
 
robbiefitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm still a noob here (I haven't even built my screen yet) but from what I've read and spoken to MM about is that if you're looking at anything bigger than a 4' x 8' you should definitely look into Sintra/Komatex (an expanded pvc product). That seems to be the go to material in this type of situation. It is a little pricey compared to the other choices but still far less than an mfg screen! It comes up to 5' x 10', which with a 2 in. border will give you a 114" screen.
robbiefitch is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 05-24-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks!
I was going through some other threads and started to read up on the Sintra a little - never heard of it before or at least never paid attention to it before.

Anyway - Thanks!
zamboni driver is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 05-24-2013, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a sign store locally that could get me what I need (most likely).
Seems like there is a lot of options there too! What are the best products when it comes to that class (Sintra) material?
zamboni driver is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 05-24-2013, 12:05 PM
Member
 
robbiefitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sintra is actually a brand of expended pvc, Komatex is another brand widely used (and sometimes a little cheaper apparently).

Outside of those two I'm not to sure (as I said I'm a noob myself), so if and when MM chimes back in follow his advice he's the diy screen master!
robbiefitch is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 05-29-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Went to a sign store - they had all sorts of "material" that seemed like would work.

I don't know the technical name - but basically its the heavy banner material they use to print all sorts of stuff on.
What about that stuff? Glue it on some sort of substrate and give it some paint....would that stuff work? Pretty cheap - comes in any size.
zamboni driver is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 05-29-2013, 08:54 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 215
If it's surface is smooth, free of texture, and it's bright white and made to be painted on.....go for it.

But I gotta ask..... What size is "any size". Also, if it's 5' x 10' and cheap...we ALL wanna know what it is.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is online now  
post #25 of 26 Old 05-29-2013, 09:23 PM
Member
 
robbiefitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm glad MM chimed in! I was just about to post that you may want to wait to see if does!
robbiefitch is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 05-30-2013, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zamboni driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ha ha - Well I apologize I was not more specific. I wish I could say I "found" some new and wonderful material but it isn't anything you haven't seen, I was just so vague originally it sure sounded promising didn't it. Sorry!

So one of the materials I was talking about "Scrim" which a slew of manufactures make in different form factors. I noticed a thread (albeit very old) that discussed this material. Mr. MississippiMan has infact commented on it before. I'm be curious to hear some thoughts on it again however? Any takers? Anyone use it? Its nice because it comes in a "roll" so you basically are limited to the width (around 60+") by however long you need. Inexpensive is a relative term - but basically around $50 for a 60"x100" piece.

The other stuff was is basically an aluminum composite (such as Nudo or Omega Board). The beauty of that is its stiff quality and really smooth, but wasn't sure if it was good for painting? It does come in a base white. That stuff comes in sheets of 5x10 but not really "cheap" (Over $100 isn't considered cheap in my book).

Between the aluminum composite and the scrim - one better than the other? Both would be painted of course. Scrim isn't as smooth as the composite so it would need to be mounted to something. I suppose you could grommet it however (cheap outdoor setup). What about wrapping the scrim directly around the frame as tight as possible? What do you think about that option? Would that work??

Thanks!
zamboni driver is offline  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off