Help with DIY screen size and material selection - AVS Forum
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone!

I've been lurking around the forum for the last few weeks and have learned a lot already, but am hoping to get some specific help.

My wife and I are currently building our first house and it is set to be completed at the beginning of July. We opted to get a "bonus room" added to make it a 1 and 1/2 story. My wife is giving me full reign of said bonus room so I am making a very limited budget (building a home is EXPENSIVE! lol) home theater/music room (I play guitar). I have already bought a BenQ mw663 projector and surround sound and HDMI cables are prewired (still have to find some speakers). My next goal is to at least choose what kind of material I should use and what size screen I should do.

The room is roughly 20'x20'.
Has 4 windows (should be able to block most ambient light as no windows get direct sunlight).
Ceiling is sloped from 8' to 10'.
I plan on using only roughly 1/2-2/3 of the room for the projector set up, so it'll be more like 20' x 12-15'.
The screen will go on the "12-15' " wall.

It does not have to be AT since our SS is prewired in the sloped part of our ceiling.

I do not want to do a painted screen on the wall.

Thank you everyone in advance!
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone?
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I will consider a painted screen on a separate substrate, just not the actual wall.

Any and all help is appreciated!
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:55 AM
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Robbie,

Hey...welcome aboard AVS's DIY Screen Forum! Sorry you had to stew a bit in your creative juices before you got an answer. But we would get to you eventually. Few ever get overlooked....jst procrastinated on at times. Please excuse.... biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by robbiefitch View Post

I will consider a painted screen on a separate substrate, just not the actual wall.

Any and all help is appreciated!

Well Ok then......

You have a real Beamer of a PJ...but one with a 16:10 WXGA 1280 x 800 resolution. Pretty good Contrast though...for a 3K Lumen PJ

The best Material suited for your project would be Sintra / Kometex. With a 5' x 10' sheet cut to 60" x 104" you can get going with a 114" diagonal screen. (56" x 100") The extra 2" all around is to allow you to screw the Sintra to the wall and then apply the Velvet Wrapped Trim over the Screw heads.

Spray it using RS-MaxxMudd LL mixed to the stated proportions, but add 4 oz of Liquitex Neutral Gray to deepen the level of Gray.

Here is your cost analysis.

Pant Mix $70.00
Sprayer $50.00
Sintra $130.00 (max....dependent upon you location)
Trim $50.00
Miscellaneous $30.00

Total expenditure for a 114" Fixed Screen of 1.2 gain and virtually perfect and ideal surface..... $330.00

That's about 1/3rd the expense of any High Contrast Gray Fixed Mfg Screen.

Roll the paint onto the Sintra and you can subtract about $70.00

Brook no mistake, the screen described above is a over-achiever, and will make you undeniably proud of the effort...and value you obtained via going the DIY route.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks MM!

Now for a few questions...

1. Where can I get Sintra/Komatex from?

2. What's the difference between MaxxMudd and SilverFire?

3. When I search RS-MaxxMudd LL it doesn't pull up the specs... Is it the same as MaxxMudd V2?

4. If I roll it will it come out the same quality wise as spraying?

Appreciate it!
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Nevermind on number 3... I found it... But it says it's for low lumen projectors with controlled light. Is that why I would add the 4oz of Liquitex Neutral Gray?
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiefitch View Post

Thanks MM!

Now for a few questions...

1. Where can I get Sintra/Komatex from?

What city do you live in / near?
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2. What's the difference between MaxxMudd and SilverFire?

The Colorant, and the percentages of reflective particles to the needed percentage of masking elements.
RS-MaxxMudd is the progenitor of Silver Fire, in fact it's base Mix is essentially the Reflective Mix for Silver Fire.
Inasmuch...the RS-MM Family seldom aspire to, or reach the level of "Gray" that even a SF v2.5 1.5 reaches
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3. When I search RS-MaxxMudd LL it doesn't pull up the specs... Is it the same as MaxxMudd V2?

See below. biggrin.gif
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4. If I roll it will it come out the same quality wise as spraying?

Somebody get a Rope ! mad.gif
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Appreciate it!

Yeah well......, it's like this. Spraying done correctly onto a good surface allows for highly reflective mixes to diffract more light, rather than direct it straight back. Gain as measured off axis it what all the SF / RS-MM mixes have held out as being special. But...if you roll, and do a proper job, while you might get a smooth blemish free surface, you also get a more highly directional surface, one that tends to hot spot, and have a very narrow viewing cone. This comes from the Roller pressing down and flattening the metallic flakes, creating a muti-mirrored effect.

Consider this....RS-MM-LL can be rolled because....? It has a lighter hue and more UPW Flat. "(aka: less a tendency to show roller marks...)

Spraying kinda jumbles 'em up on a exceeding small level. Scatters the light better. And I've said it many times, the ability to ace out a near perfect surface comes easier with spraying. Spraying really isn't any more expensive consider that to do a righteous job of Rolling you gotta have great Roller Wands, and excellent quality Rollers. And good technique. And good fortune. Man...that's a lotta "I hope it's all good."......too much for me, and I used to roll all my screens!
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Originally Posted by robbiefitch View Post

Nevermind on number 3... I found it... But it says it's for low lumen projectors with controlled light. Is that why I would add the 4oz of Liquitex Neutral Gray?

He surmises wisely.

Silver Fire mixes, owing to their darker shades tending to highlight reflective particles (...though to a lessor degree than do most all such HC Mfg Ambient screens,) both the ratio of metallic particles and the translucency of the mix govern "gain", The interaction of the depth (%) of the Gray shade added both mutes a degree of the gain due from "Direct Reflectivity", and also deepens blacks by optimizing projected blacks. The key element being that by retaining a higher percentage of gain overall AND deepening blacks onscreen, that makes for a vivid, dynamic image that always performs better than thought possible in a given situation..

It all about the SF colorant.

To do this with a base Neutral Gray instead of the SF Colorant requires using a higher percentage of Neutral Gray per Reflective Mix than one would with SF colorant.

The RS-MaxxMudd LL is already known to be the RS-MM with the highest gain. That said, it can most easily suffer the addition of a Basic Gray, to essentially do the same job....darken the screen but hopefully retain at least a gain of approx.1.1

One has to make a study of why RS-MM-LL is what it is. More UPW Less Silver. More Pearl. Take a look at the color images showing SF Colorant. Compare them to the shade of Gray of the Liquitex Neutral Gray.

A huge difference.

a SF v2.5 4.0 surface (4 oz. Colorant) would be pretty dark Gray. About a shade lighter than the concentrated Neutral Gray. Yet that depth of Gray was / is achieved using only 4 oz of SF Colorant. To accomplish the same level with the Liquitex would mean adding 32 oz! And you can be sure there would be no gain level remotely akin to 1.0.

It's all about balancing masking of overt reflection while retaining the most possible gain.

Add the old cry "How about making it simpler?" and RS-MaxxMudd LL w/4 oz Liquitex will fit that bill for those whose ambient light issues are modest and light control is normal in nature. Then Robbie, you get to add in your PJ and it's performance. If you need real punch during a high light situation, then normal Lamp Output onto the RS-MM-LL screen will not disappoint. Go to Low Lamp for critical viewing in so9me degree of controlled lighting, and the projected black levels will seem incredible. Turn out the lights...and your gonna wish you had 200"

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply!

I live in Richmond, Tx 77406

If I get the spray gun, will the needle it comes with suffice? Also, which one do you suggest?

Is there any other substrate I could possibly use or is it pretty much useless to use anything other than Sintra?
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiefitch View Post

Thanks for the reply!

I live in Richmond, Tx 77406

If I get the spray gun, will the needle it comes with suffice? Also, which one do you suggest?

Is there any other substrate I could possibly use or is it pretty much useless to use anything other than Sintra?

You can use to 2.0 mm needle, but this one would be best.
http://www.checkoutsupply.com/earlex-hvacv15-1-5mm-needle-brass-tip-hv3500/

Laird Plastics

555 Garden Oaks blvd
Houston, TX 77018
Manager:Joe Crowley
Phone:800-445-5217

Ask for either Kometex or Sintra, or any "identical" white sheeting that is smooth on one side at least.

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Old 05-21-2013, 01:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Any Idea On Price For The SIntra Now That You Know My Location?

I really appreciate your help!
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiefitch View Post

Thanks! Any Idea On Price For The SIntra Now That You Know My Location?

I really appreciate your help!

This Guy's high maintenance even when given the contact info biggrin.gifPhone:800-445-5217

So I gave them a call. They have 4 x 8 x 6mm & 5 x 10 x 6mm Sintra "white" for ...get this.....$100.00. Yes...they are pricing the Biggun' the same as the Lil'un

With the Biggun' you can have any screen size you want between 101" and 122" diagonal in 16x9.

I wish I was in Texas. frown.gif

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Old 05-21-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you! I'm sorry! I just figured you may have known already since it seemed you have dealt with them already...

If I go up in size from the 114" you had suggested earlier would I just use screws on the sides then? I would prefer not to glue it directly to the wall...
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiefitch View Post

Thank you! I'm sorry! I just figured you may have known already since it seemed you have dealt with them already...

If I go up in size from the 114" you had suggested earlier would I just use screws on the sides then? I would prefer not to glue it directly to the wall...

No...114" diagonal is as large as you can go using a 5' x 10'er and still maintain a 2" on all sides.

And also "No'....prices for Plastic Sheeting material can vary widely, even City to City within the same State. And current pricing at any location can change ther moment a new shipment comes in.

Ya always gotta call.........it's a immutable Law of the DIY Cosmos. cool.gif

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Old 05-21-2013, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok cool.

I think 114" should be ok for my viewing distance of about 18'.

If anything after awhile if I get the itch to go bigger I'll just have to suck it up and paint the wall!

Thanks again for all your help! biggrin.gif
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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One more question... (I know I ask a lot lol)

If I wanted to do a "zero edge" type screen, would the 6mm be sturdy enough without supports to simply glue a french cleat to the back and mount that way? (of course with the addition of spacers on the bottom to compensate) Or would it be to flimsy?
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:07 PM
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Not advisable..needs at least a basic supportive frame.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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So by basic something like a rectangle with a support beam running down the center vertically made of 1x2's would suffice?

How difficult is the process of adjusting the projector to a zero edge screen? I'm assuming it's not to hard.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I read through the entire MaxxMudd V2.1 thread and am pretty sure I have a good grip on what to do there.

Thanks again for sharing all this info with not only me but everyone! I've just been soaking it all in!
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Any ideas on a mount with lateral shift? My projector doesn't have lens shift, so this would be a nice feature just in case I'm not dead on.
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:04 AM
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Other than building a sliding assembly yourself, or using a Chief RPA-O (source: Projector People - Kirk @ ext 2002 ) a mount whose generic Legs let you move the PJ Body "slightly" to the left or right, there are no such mounts....leastwise none that would not be about 2-3x the footprint of your PJ itself.

No, when someone needs to be exacting in placement using a DLP w/no shift, they usually mount it first, shoot an image, get it squared, then tape off the perimeter. Then whatever screen is made is installed to be exactly fitted to within those parameters.

With a Zero Edge, there is very little room for error. As in "Zero". (...funny....but true...)

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Old 06-03-2013, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks For The Info!
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:57 AM - Thread Starter
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So I'm in the process of gathering all my supplies for my screen. I've got all the paint except the Rustoleum... In all I still need the rustoleum, the sprayer, and of course the Sintra (I'm waiting until we close on our house so I can have them deliver it). I plan on using either poplar 1x3's or 1x4's to construct a frame. I will glue the Sintra to this frame and either hang it or screw the frame to the wall before hand. I will use the grid screen on my projector in order to center the screen since it'll be zero edge. Am I missing anything?
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:01 AM
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When the time comes to paint, ring the edge of the Framed Sintra with 1x3's to eliminate the Drop off at the edge of the Sintra. This will assure that the paint applies completely even all the way to the very edge.

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Would simply taping either cardboard, poster board, etc.. to the back of the sintra produce the same result?

(Front)

Sintra(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
________________________))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
__________________________________Cardboard


(Back)

edited to fix illustration
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:51 PM
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Adding such "Wings" does work, but if the Sintra is attached to the Frame i can't see how you'd be able to sandwich the material in place without raising the material at least 1/8" additional off the Frame..

It's that Gol-durn ZERO Edge business that complicates things.

Perhaps the best 2nd choice would be 2 mil Plastic instead, that can then be stretched out at least 12"+ and taped to the Wall. After your done you could simply trim it off using a Utility Knife.

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Old 06-10-2013, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Would this sprayer work? I know you normally say no to power painters but this one said it has 2 power settings (one being for detail work).
I'm only asking because I found it at a Ross store for $50 and since it has the high power option I could use it to paint some walls.
Thanks!
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:35 AM
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All I can suggest is that you try it out on some Test board before committing your screen.

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