8350 and RS-MaxxMudd?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 07-10-2013, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, here is the deal. I have an Epson 8350 and a new HT that is starting construction. The room is in a basement and will have complete light control.

The dimensions of the room are 13x27x7. I was planning on putting the projector at about 14ft (negotiable) from the screen. I think the screen will come out to somewhere between 110 and 120 inches but is still to be determined. Seating will be one row and maybe some bean bags on the floor (undetermined distance as of yet). There is a possibility of a second row of seating, but I think that a riser may be pushing it with the ceiling height.

The walls will be painted a dark blue (matte) with the ceiling being a very dark blue (flat). Not sure on the carpet color yet.

The use will be movies/netflix and gaming. Very rarely sports. From what I have read I should be able to get max performance out of the RS-MaxxMudd mixture. I am planning on spraying a section of Sintra for my screen. Does this sound appropriate??
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-11-2013, 04:58 AM
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It all sounds good....but treat yourself to as big as you can go.

  • Go 120" Diagonal **
  • Set the PJ at 11'-6" (Lens face to Screen)
  • RS-MM-Standard

**This size does require the Sintra be Glued to the wall (60" x 107") and you butt the Trim against the outside edges

56" x 100" (60" x 104") allows for 2" extra all round a 114" diagonal image and you can screw the Sintra onto the wall through those 2"s and overlap the Screw area with the Trim,

BTW, in a dedicated Theater, if you want that second Row, then you can take extra pains to truly black-out the ceiling directly above the screen and mount the Screen topmost edge within 6" of the Ceiling. Then you can use a minimum height for the Riser (6")

The extra Screen height also allows for standing somewhat closer to the Screen during Gaming.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #3 of 28 Old 08-14-2013, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been sizing things up, and I really like the idea of going as big as I can. The 122" screen at 106x60 is a draw, but I only have 7 ft ceilings. I would eat up another 6 inches in the screen border. This wouldn't leave much room for crown molding and it gets pretty close to the floor. Is it feasible to just have a 1x1 or 1x2 border instead of the typical 1x3. The ceiling and screen wall will be SW #6244 (naval) in a flat finish. The surrounding walls will be in SW #6517 (regatta) matte finish. I understand that I can lose a couple of inches and it may not be a big deal, but if I don't have to I would like to keep it. Also, the dimensions of the room have increased to 13x35 instead of the original 13x25. The extra ten feet will be a bar area. This will be one room that is separated by furniture. (if that makes sense)
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post #4 of 28 Old 08-15-2013, 05:00 AM
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2 Inches for Trim is fine.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #5 of 28 Old 08-23-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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So, I changed my mind and decided to go with flexi-white material and build a frame. Is the painting process the same as sintra? Do i need to sand after a couple of coats like BOC? I am still planning on using the regular MaxxMudd mixture to maximize my performance. I am planning on using the "no name" sprayer that has been referenced many times on these forums.

also:
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It all sounds good....but treat yourself to as big as you can go.

  • Set the PJ at 11'-6" (Lens face to Screen)

.

I think that is wrong??? According to the calculators I cannot get a 120" screen with 11'6" throw. My situation calls for the projector to be mounted at about 13'4" to 13'7". I hope that will not be too much of an issue.
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post #6 of 28 Old 08-24-2013, 03:23 AM
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Actually, I was referring to a 114" size, but failed to correlate my answer correctly.
You will note I proceeded further to suggest a smaller size to allow the Sintra to be screwed to the wall. In any case, I was using your stated 14' throw limitation (negotiable) as a basis.
Bigger is always better...except when it's not....and with 7' ceilings....it's not.

It is always a good idea to lightly sand after the 2nd or 3rd coat. Having the Flexi-White stretched fairly tight will help, but the degree of pressure is very light, just a brushing...not a scrubbing.

Painting proceeds like it would in every other case. Use a clean Fan (...set up off the Floor @ 8' distance...) set on Medium speed to hasten dry times.

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post #7 of 28 Old 08-24-2013, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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So, curiosity wants me to ask why a 120 or 122" inch screen is not ok/better with a 7 ft ceiling. Is it PQ? Light Spillage?

I am taking precautions with the walls and ceiling with darker paint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaliciousMushrm 
The ceiling and screen wall will be SW #6244 (naval) in a flat finish. The surrounding walls will be in SW #6517 (regatta) matte finish.


Also, the second row of seating is now out of the design. I can probably move the projector to 11'6" (or somewhere close). I thought maybe the 11'6 was a typo and was supposed to be 12'6 for the 120 screen. That was harder to hit and so that is where the 13' mount position came from. If I go down in screen size I can move the projector accordingly. Do I really want the projector on the max zoom position? This will not degrade the PQ?

I am not unwilling to make the screen smaller, I just don't want to regret not going bigger. I will play with size once the screen material gets here on Tues/Weds with the proposed seating distance. I have mocked things up once before we started construction, but things have changed in the design since then.... eek.gif.

The sanding is to be done with a large "fine" sanding sponge correct?


Started getting paint gathered. Drywall will be going up in a week or so. I will continue to post ?'s and progress on this thread.
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post #8 of 28 Old 08-24-2013, 08:15 AM
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With a 122 inch screen, the height of the screen is 60 inches. At 7 feet for a ceiling height, you only have 84 inches total. That would mean that if you jammed the screen to within 4 inches of the ceiling, you would still only have 20 inches left between the bottom of the screen and the floor.

Now that you do not plan to have a second row of seats, that doesn't make nearly as much difference, but even so, you would need to have a very light absorbing ceiling, or the ceiling is going to light up and work to reduce your contrast on screen.

That Sir.... is all the difference in the world, & Y 120 inches is at best problematical.

Unless you tile the ceiling in front of the screen with Protostar panels. Then by all means, go to a 122 inches diagonal. (60" x 107")

I never suggest bottoming out on your Zoom, but placing the PJ with an 8 to 12 inches of the minimum throw only serves to increase brightness and therin alow you to run the projector on low lamp mode to achieve the very best possible black levels.

Yes.... you want to use a large fine grit sanding sponge.

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post #9 of 28 Old 08-24-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, looked at protostar. I could swing a roll that was 30" wide in the budget. This treatment would only be needed for the ceiling correct? I am assuming that the self adhesive 30" roll would be enough to mitigate the light issues that will be inherent with a screen that is so close to the ceiling. I think ,if I read that right, even if I did a smaller screen that this will still be an issue (screen close to ceiling.) I thought that the dark paint would be enough, but I don't mind doing a little extra to make sure this is exactly what I want it to be.
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post #10 of 28 Old 08-24-2013, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaliciousMushrm View Post

Ok, looked at protostar. I could swing a roll that was 30" wide in the budget. This treatment would only be needed for the ceiling correct?

Yep...unless the side walls are within 12" to 14" (or less) of the sides of the screen.

You will be diggin' on the Protostar.

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post #11 of 28 Old 08-24-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Yep...unless the side walls are within 12" to 14" (or less) of the sides of the screen.

You will be diggin' on the Protostar.


I have a buddy who is an amateur astronomer. He just so happened to have some Protostar left over from lining one of his scopes. He gave me a small swatch today as a sample. Looks like it will do the trick for sure!! Still will use the syfab for the screen.

Thanks for the loads of info that you have given me, here and on all of the threads that I have read(it seems like you are in most of them LOL)

I will post back with progress and results as they come along.
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post #12 of 28 Old 01-22-2014, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, its been a while, but I have been making some progress. I have the screen built, and am going to mix up some MaxxMudd tonight. The screen will sit higher than it is now once it is mounted on the wall. I will be waiting until I am done with the crown molding before deciding on final height placement. The screen ended up at 122". I used FlexiWhite, and it seemed to stretch pretty easily.

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post #13 of 28 Old 01-23-2014, 07:03 AM
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That looks nice.........

But if you can plot the placement of the Crown first, mark the bottom-most level on the wall, then hang the Screen and paint it first, you'll save yourself a lot of extra detailed masking-off of the Trim

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post #14 of 28 Old 01-23-2014, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I planned on painting the screen in a different room. I will hang it from a basement wall that I don't care about, and then transport it to the theater room. I will then attach the trim. Seems the easiest way to me.
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post #15 of 28 Old 01-24-2014, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I am on my third duster coat. Should I see complete coverage before I begin sanding? IE more coats? I am not sure if this one will get all of the gaps filled or not.
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post #16 of 28 Old 01-24-2014, 06:25 PM
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yes, get full coverage before sanding. 6 dusters is the absolute mininum. i recommend 8 or 9.
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post #17 of 28 Old 01-24-2014, 08:57 PM
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Let me add a small correction. If you see undue texture developing before you get coverage, let the surface dry completely and sand smooth before continuing.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #18 of 28 Old 01-25-2014, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the texture after 4 dusters. It is a little inconsistant, but I think it will smooth out. I have not sanded yet. Do you think it will actually be necessary to sand if it keeps up like this?



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post #19 of 28 Old 01-25-2014, 07:15 AM
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Well, I admit that looks pretty good.........but by using a Fine Grit Sanding sponge and reducing even that texture down to slippery smooth, 2 or 3 additional light dusters over that sanded surface will result in virtual perfection.

But as stated....that looks pretty good.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #20 of 28 Old 01-25-2014, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I ran out of paint at the end of the sixth coat, perhaps I was spraying too slowly compared to everyone else. The last coat is drying right now. I will hopefully post pics tomorrow. I had no runs. Tbh this was probably the hardest thing I have sprayed. Perhaps it was my lighting, but I couldn't tell how I was doing until after I sprayed the whole thing. It was very hard to guage what was coming out of the gun because of how close the colors were.
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post #21 of 28 Old 01-25-2014, 06:04 PM
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Applying Dusters is more a case of repeatedly doing the same thing, maintaining the same distance and speed / overlap on every coat, and in doing so depending upon consistency to provide the evenness desired.

Going by visual reference, especially on the early and last coats can be deceiving.

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post #22 of 28 Old 01-25-2014, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I am hoping that it turned out well. Pics coming tomorrow. I am sure it will be watchable. I just strive for perfection!
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post #23 of 28 Old 01-25-2014, 06:15 PM
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Mushrooms will help.

tongue.gif

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post #24 of 28 Old 01-26-2014, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think most of these need labeled. You will be able to tell what is what. One is labeled because I had lights on behind me, and you can't see them. The one with the stripe, is a shot of the flexiwhite unpainted laying over the screen in a higher ambient light example on a dark scene. The camera wasn't set up properly for this picture, but you can still see a difference. The picture was a bit more watchable in person for that particular shot. Also, the projector has not been calibrated in any way. I may have put the lamp on low mode, but I cannot honestly remember. That will all come once the screen is in its home/permanent place.

Oh yea, and mushrooms don't help me anymore. We are no longer friends eek.gif Well, that isn't totally true... I still eat edible mushrooms.





This one below has lights in the bar area on full, but doesn't affect the picture very much.







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post #25 of 28 Old 02-04-2014, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It all sounds good....but treat yourself to as big as you can go.

  • Go 120" Diagonal **
  • Set the PJ at 11'-6" (Lens face to Screen)
  • RS-MM-Standard

**This size does require the Sintra be Glued to the wall (60" x 107") and you butt the Trim against the outside edges

56" x 100" (60" x 104") allows for 2" extra all round a 114" diagonal image and you can screw the Sintra onto the wall through those 2"s and overlap the Screw area with the Trim,

BTW, in a dedicated Theater, if you want that second Row, then you can take extra pains to truly black-out the ceiling directly above the screen and mount the Screen topmost edge within 6" of the Ceiling. Then you can use a minimum height for the Riser (6")

The extra Screen height also allows for standing somewhat closer to the Screen during Gaming.



MississippiMan:

The Epson 8350 has a throw range between 11'8 and 25 to project a 120 inch 16x9 diagonal picture. I was wondering why you recommended that the projector be placed at 11"6 and not somewhere more like 18 feet away. I have read that the midpoint location of the range is the "sweet spot" as far as placing the projector. Thank you for any feedback.
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post #26 of 28 Old 02-05-2014, 03:22 AM
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A focal "Sweet spot" simply refers to the mid-point in available throw, and caters to the probability that at the extreme close-in point of a PJ's throw, where maximum Zoom is required to obtain as large an image as possible, the Lens of many PJs, not being all that good in optical quality, can reproduce focal distortion at the edges of an image. Also, at the extreme far end of a PJ's throw, an extreme loss of lumen / foot lambert performance can result.

LCD PJ usually have the widest Throw variances, DLPs the shortest. Epson PJs have excellent Lenses that can allow for use at either end of the PJs throw potential, but still one wants to have a bit of focal Zoom reserve left. If a given screen size dictates that the Zoom / Throw distance is between 11' 6' and 24'. then placing the PJ at 12' 6" is a much better choice than 20'...............or even 16'.

But it's also nice to have such a wide choice of throw placement to consider. It's just prudent to match up Throw with screen size, reflectivity, and the PJ's available lumen output.


As for the 11' 6", I addressed that error here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481113/8350-and-rs-maxxmudd#post_23663275
...........explaining that I was referring to a 114" diagonal screen. I just didn't match up the change from the previously discussed 120"er.

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post #27 of 28 Old 02-05-2014, 06:42 PM
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MississippiMan:

Thank you for your response. I have an Epson 8350 projecting to a 100 inch screen. The face of the projector lens sits about 14 feet away from the screen. According the the calculator, I can place the projector from 9"9 to 20"10. I like sitting exactly 100 inches away to maintain a 1 to 1 ratio. I like the IMAX effect.

When I play quality Blu Rays shot in the 1:85:1 or less aspect ratio (where almost the whole 16x9 screen is used) I am astonished at the picture I am seeing. Blu rays like Saturday Night Fever and Dr. No. are INCREDIBLE. I don't know if you have seen these particular Blu Rays on the Epson 8350. I never would have thought I would get this kind of picture by spending only $1299 on a projector. This projector is one of the very best buys I have ever made in my life.

I have a portable screen. I also have the projector on a movable tall piece of furniture. Do you recommend me bringing in the projector closer to the screen? I am able to either move the screen closer to the projector or move the projector closer to the screen.

Are you saying that because the Epson 8350 has an excellent lens, it would not suffer like other projectors would by bringing it closer to the screen? The literature that i have read suggests that physically placing projectors closer than their "sweet spot" half way point (I guess in my situation it is 15 feet?) can be detrimental. That while image on screen will be brighter, the focus and contrast can suffer.

Thanks again for any info.
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post #28 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 06:48 AM
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I personally have installed over 25 8350s since they came out......and almost all were placed at approx. 10-15% of the minimum Throw. This primarily to conserve lumen output because so very many of my installations involve the use of darker DIY Screen apps (SF-4.0)

At extremely large screen sizes, you could probably note a slight lessening of sharpness when almost maximum Zoom is applied (140" diagonal +) especially if you are at a 1:1 seating distance. But at 100" diagonal? Not a chance.

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