Suggestions for a NO MIX Painted Screen - BenQ W1070 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 07-20-2013, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone, finally pulled the trigger last night and ordered my first projector (W1070). As such I am building my home theater and will be doing a painted DIY screen to start. I've read extensively on the various paint mixes in the forums here, and may go that route eventually, but for now I wanted to start off with a simple Drywall painted screen with a DIY wood wrapped felt border.

What paint would you suggest, as I am wanting to buy it ready to go without the mixing. We just moved into our house, and I have plenty of other projects to work on before trying to perfect the home theater. I expect to have somewhere between 100" and 120" inch screen with roughly a 10' to 12' throw. I haven't decided on exact screen size and plan to play with the projector and determine exactly where it should be. My seating distance will be roughly 12'.

When we use the projector there will be ambient light the majority of the time. there will be can lights behind the seating area that will remain lit, but the area towards the screen will remain unlit. It can be light controlled, but for my uses, mostly sports on weekends, the lights will remain on in the back of the room.

I'm assuming a gray tinted paint will be best, but looking for anyone with experience with this projector or others to chime in.

Thanks
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post #2 of 37 Old 07-20-2013, 09:06 PM
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At 100" you can use a simple Paint like Behr Silver Screen in Interior Flat Enamel
Minimize your Throw Distance to within 6" of the closest distance allowable for that screen size.

120" with ambient light? Rethink what you think you can handle "mix - wise" because otherwise your going to have "Gray" looking blacks and muted Colors.

If you eliminate the ambient light, everything becomes easier to manage. But if you reduce Screen size to 100" and place the PJ at 8' 9" throw, all at once it all comes together to perform above your expectations.

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post #3 of 37 Old 07-21-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

At 100" you can use a simple Paint like Behr Silver Screen in Interior Flat Enamel
Minimize your Throw Distance to within 6" of the closest distance allowable for that screen size.

120" with ambient light? Rethink what you think you can handle "mix - wise" because otherwise your going to have "Gray" looking blacks and muted Colors.

If you eliminate the ambient light, everything becomes easier to manage. But if you reduce Screen size to 100" and place the PJ at 8' 9" throw, all at once it all comes together to perform above your expectations.

Thanks for your response MM. I have read a lot of your comments on these threads, and value your input. Since you said I should "rethink" the amount of work i can handle mix-wise,, What solution would you suggest if I wanted to go 120" with the conditions I described. Could you recommend a mix for my scenario?

Also, Given that much of my viewing will be done with ambient light, what tradeoffs will there be in dark viewing? Thanks, also I've seen you recommend a SW paint in another thread and curious your thoughts on how that would vary from the suggestion above? And what gain would these paints have?
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post #4 of 37 Old 07-21-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, it makes complete sense that the smaller the image, the brighter it will be? Is it equally important on mounting the projector at the closest to the screen as possible? How much does that impact screen brightness?
Is there a screen size you would recommend, or is 100" the sweet spot?

Again, thank you for your response, and sorry for all the questions.
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post #5 of 37 Old 07-22-2013, 04:09 AM
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Yes.....a closer Throw always allows maximum light onto the screen.

Compromise a bit and go to 110" with the w1070 at a 9' -7" Throw

Use RS-MaxxMudd Standard

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post #6 of 37 Old 07-22-2013, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Getting the projector tomorrow, so I plan to start off with a N8.5 gray paint as you have suggested in other areas, And work on a more permanent solution moving forward.

Thanks for the help.
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post #7 of 37 Old 07-22-2013, 09:10 AM
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I might of suggested NG 8.5 elsewhere, but unless your willing to start out of the gate with a Screen that measures 0.85 gain at best, you should take my suggestion of RS-MM LL to breast.

You said 120" diagonal was your preferred goal, and asked about the alternative size & paint app that would fit, and I provided you with such. If you instead opt for the simple NG 8.5 like Behr Silver Screen, you should back down again to 100" diagonal lest your image quality suffer from a marked drop in foot lambert s

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post #8 of 37 Old 07-22-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Understood, thank you. Could you direct me to a resource for determining my FL, given projector, and screen size? And what is ideal for varying conditions..
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post #9 of 37 Old 07-22-2013, 09:56 AM
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Your already there...and the info has already been provided.

No confusion or mistakes if you follow the given advice.

However.......................here is the location most use: http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator-pro.cfm

Be advised that if you do not use it (...or read it....) correctly it can actually steer you wrong.

As for my advice, I don't usually make comment as to why Noobs should take my suggestions and run with them out of hand. But truthfully, I have many years experience doing installations that run the gamut of both normal and no-so-normal situations, and that encompass virtually any / every PJ of note available. I'm on here to make things as quick, as affordable, as high performing as I can for Members such as you.... and as easy a possible for both Noobs and experienced Members who are making a DIY Screen for the first time, and who desire to nail it down ...also "the first time".

Some do like to explore options...even try things that are no so "advisable" and learn through doing it themselves from the get go.

And that's cool......but we've seen some pretty bleak end results from them going down that road, and / or comments about how frustrated they become...or sore-eyed and mush-brained from hours of confusing and contradictory comments and advice.

Your situation is a simple one to accommodate, and can be made difficult only through indecision or misapplied advice.

Sooooo...............it's your call to make from here on.

Me...I'm going to go see a Early Afternoon Movie. Strictly in the name of business, don'tcha know. wink.gif

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post #10 of 37 Old 07-22-2013, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for all your help, and I do not question your experience in these matters. I appreciate the time you take to help everyone out.
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post #11 of 37 Old 07-22-2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyville View Post

Thanks again for all your help, and I do not question your experience in these matters. I appreciate the time you take to help everyone out.

Well that was easy. biggrin.gif

I do hope you hit upon a choice that suits your circumstances and abilities. That's what is really important, and no matter what else is said, you'll find the help and advice you need right here.

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post #12 of 37 Old 07-23-2013, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this the "standard" you refered me too? Also, I can do some reading, but do you know what the gain of this screen paint would be?


RS-MaxxMudd v.2.1
(for low to moderate ambient light)

16 oz Liquitex Basics Silver
16 oz Rustoleom Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
16 oz. distilled/tap water**
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post #13 of 37 Old 07-23-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by farleyville View Post

Is this the "standard" you referred me too? Also, I can do some reading, but do you know what the gain of this screen paint would be?


Yes...that's it...and it comes in at approx 1.2 gain

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post #14 of 37 Old 07-23-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Where does this paint fall on the gray scale? Is it as gray as the silver screen or N8.5 you mentioned for the smaller screen?
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post #15 of 37 Old 07-23-2013, 12:01 PM
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No...it's actually a ultra light Whitish Silver. Approx 9.5

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post #16 of 37 Old 07-26-2013, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been reading through some older threads as well, as I'm trying to decide between a basic gray screen, a MaxxMudd mix with spraying, or something in between. I ran across some older threads advocating a 3:1 or 4:1 mix of UPW gray and polycrylic.

In your experience, is there a noticed improvement between flat gray and the addition of the polycrylic? Obviously the MaxxMudd mixture incorporates both but adds the silver and pearl in as well, and I'm sure added benefits.. , but the simplicity of blending the two together and rolling is very appealing. I'm curious why I don't see any recent discussion of the Poly + Paint in the forums?
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post #17 of 37 Old 07-26-2013, 12:21 PM
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Because adding Poly alone in any amount that does not preclude Spraying does not offer enough of a performance gain. Read some more and you'll find text that alludes to that conclusion.

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post #18 of 37 Old 07-26-2013, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Because adding Poly alone in any amount that does not preclude Spraying does not offer enough of a performance gain. Read some more and you'll find text that alludes to that conclusion.

I kind of assumed that a simple solution like that doesn't disappear without good reason. But was curious to your input if there were any performance gains between that and gray, I've read so much at this point I think my eyeballs are about to fall out... I think its time to stop reading and start doing...

Also, have you seen anyone use a gray tinted UPW in the MaxxMudd mix with any success. I am trying to combat a fair amount of ambient light, but am committed to keeping screen size low enough to compensate for the gray??
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post #19 of 37 Old 07-26-2013, 12:35 PM
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The addition of Liqutex Neutral Gray, about 2 oz maximum, can darken the Mix, but if more is added, then proportionately the Pearl needs to be increased as well. But tinting the actual UPW first is not suggested. Behr Silver Screen has been "adulterated" with Pearl & Silver & Poly to improve it's performance...yet doing so only creates a less performance-oriented version of RS-MaxxMudd.

Going beyond any slight increase in added Gray Tint within UPW, and what happens is that gain plummets. To go further into the Ambient Light performance realm, one must instead move up / into Silver Fire.

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post #20 of 37 Old 08-05-2013, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I just spent 15 minutes searching the threads for this answer and couldn't find it, so thought I would just ask and add it to this thread. I purchased the No name sprayer from Gleem, but read somewhere that you recommended purchasing a different needle for use with it? Sorry to ask the question again, but couldn't find where i had read that before.

Thanks, I'll be spraying the RS-MaxxMudd Standard
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post #21 of 37 Old 08-05-2013, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyville View Post

I purchased the No name sprayer from Gleem, but read somewhere that you recommended purchasing a different needle for use with it? Sorry to ask the question again, but couldn't find where i had read that before.

http://www.checkoutsupply.com/earlex-hvacv15-1-5mm-needle-brass-tip-hv3500/

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post #22 of 37 Old 08-13-2013, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The addition of Liqutex Neutral Gray, about 2 oz maximum, can darken the Mix, but if more is added, then proportionately the Pearl needs to be increased as well. But tinting the actual UPW first is not suggested. Behr Silver Screen has been "adulterated" with Pearl & Silver & Poly to improve it's performance...yet doing so only creates a less performance-oriented version of RS-MaxxMudd.

Going beyond any slight increase in added Gray Tint within UPW, and what happens is that gain plummets. To go further into the Ambient Light performance realm, one must instead move up / into Silver Fire.

MM, Thank you for all your help so far in various threads with my screen build. I have bought all the ingredients, and I am ready to spray the maxxmudd onto the sintra that I have. I also have a 4oz tube of neutral gray to use to darken the mxiture up as much as I can. If I go beyond the 2oz you mentioned above and use the full 4 oz, how much pearl would I need to add to offset. And if I do, is there really any benefit there, short of going to SF, which I probably want to avoid doing due to my fear of screwing up the colorant and getting my colors off.

Having had my projector and unpainted mounted sintra for a few weeks now (side note, any clue what the gain of bare white sintra is?), I have quickly discovered that my viewing habits will predominately be in moderate ambient light. I am not concerned about performance in a darkened theater, as 80% of my use will be with some low to moderate ambient light. I currently have the BenQ w1070 mounted ~10' from the screen and projecting a 120" image... The image is as large as the projector can get, and zoom will only reduce it smaller. Overall on normal lamp mode I am content watching sports with my current screen in the ambient light on the bare sintra, but obviously looking for better perforamance... Thoughts on tailoring the Maxxmudd mix to my screen with the neutral gray?

Thanks Again!!!
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post #23 of 37 Old 08-13-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by farleyville View Post

MM, Thank you for all your help so far in various threads with my screen build. I have bought all the ingredients, and I am ready to spray the maxxmudd onto the sintra that I have. I also have a 4oz tube of neutral gray to use to darken the mxiture up as much as I can. If I go beyond the 2oz you mentioned above and use the full 4 oz, how much pearl would I need to add to offset.

If going under the assumption you bought a 32 oz Jar of Rustoleum Pearl, and you add the full 4 oz of NG, then add 6 oz of additional Pearl.
Quote:
Having had my projector and unpainted mounted sintra for a few weeks now (side note, any clue what the gain of bare white sintra is? 1.0- 1.1 gain dependent upon sheen ), I have quickly discovered that my viewing habits will predominately be in moderate ambient light. Overall on normal lamp mode I am content watching sports with my current screen in the ambient light on the bare sintra, but obviously looking for better performance... Thoughts on tailoring the Maxxmudd mix to my screen with the neutral gray?

Thanks Again!!!

See the above. Actually though, I would acquire a 2 ox Tube of Liquitex Basics Gold just in case the addition of the NG creates a slight Blue push.

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post #24 of 37 Old 08-13-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

If going under the assumption you bought a 32 oz Jar of Rustoleum Pearl, and you add the full 4 oz of NG, then add 6 oz of additional Pearl.
See the above. Actually though, I would acquire a 2 ox Tube of Liquitex Basics Gold just in case the addition of the NG creates a slight Blue push.

Interesting, have you seen or experienced a push towards blue? I tend to default to liking a warmer image on my other television setups when calibrating, so I may want to get the gold. How would I determine how much its pushing blue, and the appropriate amount of gold to add? obviously i cannot mix it and then spray on the screen as I could no longer alter it.. I'm assuming it is just by "eyeing" the paint mixture?
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post #25 of 37 Old 08-13-2013, 02:12 PM
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Both the pearl and silver (...predominantly the silver...) add color and reflectivity that can enhance the Blue spectrum. Gold is used (sparingly ) to mellow out any tendency toward a Bluish cast.

With the older SF Formula, it was a given that gold be at hand. As was the case of early RS-MM mixes.

Every aspect of the current version ( 2.5 ) is intended to work toward a balanced, virtually neutral Gray. And almost every important aspect of SF is tied into the Colorant But just small fluctuations in materials, or mixing, can skewer the desired results. And most common is a slight overage measurement in Red. After that, Green.

But the real test is when everything, UPW included, is mixed together. That is the time one judges a Mix to be something "other than" a Neutral Gray. If the Gray has a reddish cast...it's obvious...and is any greenish or Bluish cast

My comments were directed on the need for you to increase the reflective elements via a Neutral Gray derived from / by a different method than the SF Colorant is. And that odd neutral Gray...while appearing neutral in color when observed "static" or with nominal illumination, can reflect other colors when hit with a light from a PJ.

So I'm sayin' you should be prepared, and frankly, it's not because of the Mix as listed, but because you desired mix has varied a bit. Not disastrously so...but enough for you to be put mildly on notice.

Don't worry or over-think it...just judge the shade of Gray in the can, then when you think it correct, apply some onto a stick / paper, let dry and judge. If you decide to add, add 1 oz at a time and stir slowly but well.

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post #26 of 37 Old 08-14-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I'm laughing at myself here, mainly because of the title of this thread... BUT, I'm finally finishing drywall in the theater room, and should be ready in the next week to spray the new screen.. The reason I am laughing, is although the title is "NO MIX paint solution", in the last three weeks, I've morphed from no mix, to gray and poly, to Maxxmudd, to modified Maxxmudd, and now I am considering the SF 3.0. Other than colorant, roughly $15 at Michael's, I already have all of the ingredients with the maxxmudd mix, why not take the jump over? And the process appears to be exactly the same (with the difference of mixing colorant separately).

I hate over-analyzing everything, but what i have found after reading a ton, is that it really isn't that complicated, and each is just an incremental step to the next level. Given what I have read and my ambient light viewing habits, I think I may want to take the jump to SF 2.5 - 3.0? MM, what would you recommend for me given my setup as mentioned earlier in this thread? Should I stay with the Maxxmudd, or is the SF a superior setup...

BenQ W 1070 - ~10' throw.
120" 16:9 image
moderate ambient light - 80% of the time.
White Sintra substrate

I'm setup for either a
RS-Maxxmudd Standard (with 4oz of Neutral Gray and 6oz added Pearl)
or
SF 2.5 3.0?

What do you think would best suit my needs?
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post #27 of 37 Old 08-14-2013, 05:00 PM
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SF 3.0

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post #28 of 37 Old 08-14-2013, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, exactly what I was thinking. That may be your shortest post ever. smile.gif
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post #29 of 37 Old 08-14-2013, 08:04 PM
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Thanks, exactly what I was thinking. That may be your shortest post ever. smile.gif

. cool.gif

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post #30 of 37 Old 08-15-2013, 12:04 PM
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Good thing I wasn't drinking a beer when I read that!
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